ISTJ vs INTJ

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What about ISTP - ISTJ - INTJ ?

....Which is always a possibility when the functions are being confused. As I have considered since determing that I was ISTP, the Ni-Te and Ti-Se can be quite confusing at the surface level. Per Berens' booklet "Understanding and Applying Jung's Cognitive Processes", she differentiates between the functions:

Ni and Ti are often accompanied by a sense of detachment and disconniction. With both there tends to be comfort with complexity. The difference is what when we are engaging in Ti, we usually have a clear sense of the principles or models something is judged against, whereas Ni an impressionistic image forms in the mind

Couple that with the Te-Se confusion at the auxillary level:

Se and Te are often used when there is a focus on facts and empirical approach. Keep in mind that Se is a perceptive process and may consist of data gathering with questions, whereas Te is a judging process in which the purpose of questions is to establish logic.

could confuse ISTPs and INTJs.

Where the ISTJ and INTJ may become confused is at the dominant level where Berens says

Si and Ni are both more focused and involve perception of "one thing at a time". This gives the behavior a sequential appearance, with a sense of beginning, middle, and end. With Si, the sequenceis often logisitical in nature and based on the past, Ni is based on a vision for the future, and the focus is on what steps to take next.

Since they all are "Chart the Course" types (including INFJ), it is quite easy to make the confusion.

 

[Ezra]

The INTJ would be create the policy. Whereas the ISTJ would ensure that it was enforced.

Very well put.

I think the SJ core need should be described in a more "hip" manner. The way I see it is the SP and SJ temperaments seem to be described in terms of young versus old people, with SP being spontaneous and adventurous and SJ being conservative and cautious.

The image of the SJ one could get is the hard-working and responsible type, so it just sounds like old people. But I think we should reinterpret it as how a need to belong would be for a young person. And so I come to the conclusion that the SJ is the one who follows the trends of the group they identify with. So the catalyst (who may or may not be of the Catalyst temperament) for a high school subculture will grow members who are largely SJ, be it preppies, jocks, or even Goth subcultures.

This is definitely something worth analysing further. Keirsey only briefly mentions that SJs look older when younger, and I did read somewhere that the ESTJ actually grows up too early. SPs in comparison look immature, even as adults. If you read what Keirsey writes about SJs as children, they don't always easily appeal to a broad spectrum of people and, as you've mentioned here, subcultures. So one might be tempted to say that if one is a goth, one must be an INFP, or something similar, when in reality, one doesn't look at the fact that the idea of a subculture itself is something which is heavily-SJ related. I'm talking about the SJ's strong need for affiliation, something which made me decide that SJ was highly unlikely for me.