Zarathustra's Enneagram Type

[Virtual ghost]

No, your opinion is appreciated, as it helps sharpen the distinctions needed to be made.


That's not to say that you're wrong -- I could be a 6w5 (check my profile) -- it's just that your reasoning doesn't prove anything, nor does it really come close to disproving the opposing thesis (that I'm a 5w6 sx/so).

As I said in the beggining "I trully can't say that I know you that well". I am judging almost purely on my intuition. (since basically I dont know you at all)

So for me the debate ends here. I said my opnion and now we can argue about this for days ... what is pointless because the things said will just be more and more subjective.



However I am willing to admit that my perspective is prehaps too rigid. But I didnt want to turn this thread to be about me.

After all towards that descriptions you have posted I am ....

5w6 sp/so "The Engineer".

Probably the furthest removed of all types from their own emotional life. The most practical minded and hardest working of Fives, prefer to work with complex physical systems over mere theory. In some ways this might be the purest version of Five.

 

[Starry]

I’m not making a case for either 5 or 6. I’m trying to keep people from ruling out 5 because of a mental block about its coexistence with being sx/so. If I had to pick one, though, based on what I’ve read, and what I’ve seen, I’d guess 6w5.

It's weird because I kinda feel the opposite...as in I feel *slightly attached* haha to people not so readily ruling out type 6. Not that I care what type Z ultimately decides upon...but there does some to be some sort of 'universal resistance' to e6 and I don't really understand why. Maybe it's seen as being 'common'...or not as 'intellectually inclined'? Which is weird because nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[Zarathustra]

It's weird because I kinda feel the opposite...as in I feel *slightly attached* haha to people not so readily ruling out type 6. Not that I care what type Z ultimately decides upon...but there does some to be some sort of 'universal resistance' to e6 and I don't really understand why. Maybe it's seen as being 'common'...or not as 'intellectually inclined'? Which is weird because nothing could be further from the truth.

Well, see, that's the thing.

Obviously that issue exists.

Nobody seems to want to be a 6.

There almost seems to be stigma attached to it.

I've even heard numerous people describe them as "headcases".

And I will even admit to, at the beginning, not exactly wanting to be one, as I perceived it somewhat similarly.

But, at this point, it's genuinely more about wanting to figure out whether I'm a 5w6 sx/so or 6w5 sx/so.

I really don't care about being a 6; I just want to be sure, so I can use it for personal growth.

And, regardless, even if 6 is just my wing, I can still use it for personal growth.

 

[Rasofy]

[MENTION=15004]mia_infp[/MENTION], [MENTION=8413]Zarathustra[/MENTION]
Among other reasons, I think the unhealthy levels of Enneagram 5s are not quite compatible with the sx/so variant.

Level 4: Begin conceptualizing and fine-tuning everything before acting—working things out in their minds: model building, preparing, practicing, and gathering more resources. Studious, acquiring technique. Become specialized, and often "intellectual," often challenging accepted ways of doing things.

Level 5: Increasingly detached as they become involved with complicated ideas or imaginary worlds. Become preoccupied with their visions and interpretations rather than reality. Are fascinated by off-beat, esoteric subjects, even those involving dark and disturbing elements. Detached from the practical world, a "disembodied mind," although high-strung and intense.

Level 6: Begin to take an antagonistic stance toward anything which would interfere with their inner world and personal vision. Become provocative and abrasive, with intentionally extreme and radical views. Cynical and argumentative.

Unhealthy Levels
Level 7: Become reclusive and isolated from reality, eccentric and nihilistic. Highly unstable and fearful of aggressions: they reject and repulse others and all social attachments.

Level 8: Get obsessed yet frightened by their threatening ideas, becoming horrified, delirious, and prey to gross distortions and phobias.

Level 9: Seeking oblivion, they may commit suicide or have a psychotic break with reality. Deranged, explosively self-destructive, with schizophrenic overtones. Generally corresponds to the Schizoid Avoidant and Schizotypal personality disorders.

I mean, a schizoidish Zara? That's impossible! Blah, I don't have much to add anymore, but you are a pretty interesting case, buddy.

 

[Zarathustra]

Among other reasons, I think the unhealthy levels of Enneagram 5s are not quite compatible with the sx/so variant.

See, I have a different take.

I think the sx/so of a 5w6 sx/so sets up a conflict with the 5's natural tendency to withdraw, which makes for a certain tension, a push-pull dynamic, that, once again, resembles something like what you might expect to see in a 6w5, thus, once again, making the diagnosis even more difficult.

I mean, a schizoidish Zara? That's impossible! Blah, I don't have much to add anymore, but you are a pretty interesting case, buddy.

Did you read this post?

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36458&p=1431066&viewfull=1#post1431066

Honestly, that's the most important single post in this thread, and if you seriously want to consider which type I am, you need to deal with what I say there. I wrote it over a year ago, but it still holds true. I suppose some elements of the 6 stuff might hold trueish for me, but not nearly as true as the 5 stuff. That's a large part of the reason why I'm not willing to commit to 6. Some potentially useful information: several years ago, out at a bar having a good time, I was discussing personality stuff with a buddy of mine from college who was in med school at the time, and we were talking about MBTI's relationship to the DSM personality disorders, and whether personalities are largely less extreme versions of personality disorders, and we were talking about various disorders that could be seen, in less-than-disorderly amounts, in each of our personalities, and either schizoid or schizotypal was one of the ones he thought was present in me (I believe it was schizotypal). And this is someone who knew me during those days in college when this could most readily be seen of me, and, as I told him, I thought his perception was perfectly reasonable.

 

[RaptorWizard]

Did you read this post?

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36458&p=1431066&viewfull=1#post1431066

Honestly, that's the most important single post in this thread, and if you seriously want to consider which type I am, you need to deal with what I say there. I wrote it over a year ago, but it still holds true. I suppose some elements of the 6 stuff might hold trueish for me, but not nearly as true as the 5 stuff. That's a large part of the reason why I'm not willing to commit to 6.

With regards to the last bit, several years ago, out at a bar having a good time, I was discussing personality stuff with a buddy of mine from college who was in med school at the time, and we were talking about MBTI's relationship to the DSM personality disorders, and whether personalities are largely less extreme versions of personality disorders, and we were talking about various disorders that could be seen, in less-than-disorderly amounts, in each of our personalities, and either schizoid or schizotypal was one of the ones he thought was present in me (I believe it was schizotypal). And this is someone who knew me during those days in college when this could most readily be seen of me, and, as I told him, I thought his perception was perfectly reasonable.

This is exactly why I voted 5w4, because based on what I have studied, 5w4 is the dreamy, Schizotypal one, and 5w6 is the non-emotional, Schizoid one. But perhaps this is not a strict rule. Maybe you really are an odd case, a Schizotypal 5w6!

 

[Zarathustra]

This is exactly why I voted 5w4, because based on what I have studied, 5w4 is the dreamy, Schizotypal one, and 5w6 is the non-emotional, Schizoid one. But perhaps this is not a strict rule. Maybe you really are an odd case, a Schizotypal 5w6!

Or 6w5...

Plus, I don't remember which he said, and, frankly, the two are somewhat similar, and it might've been both:

Schizoid personality disorder (SPD) is a personality disorder characterized by a lack of interest in social relationships, a tendency towards a solitary lifestyle, secretiveness, emotional coldness, and apathy. They may also demonstrate a simultaneous rich, elaborate, and exclusively internal fantasy world, although this is often more suggestive of schizotypal personality disorder.
SPD is not the same as schizophrenia, although they share some similar characteristics such as detachment or blunted affect; there is increased prevalence of the disorder in families with schizophrenia.
Some psychologists argue that the definition of SPD is flawed due to cultural bias: "One reason schizoid people are pathologized is because they are comparatively rare. People in majorities tend to assume that their own psychology is normative and to equate difference with inferiority". Therefore "[t]he so-called schizoid personality disorder is one of the more blatant examples of the APA’s pathologizing of normal human differences."

Schizotypal personality disorder is a personality disorder characterized by a need for social isolation, anxiety in social situations, odd behavior and thinking, and often unconventional beliefs. People with this disorder feel extreme discomfort with maintaining close relationships with people, and therefore they often don't. They frequently misinterpret situations as being strange or having unusual meaning for them. Paranormal and superstitious beliefs are not uncommon for these people. People with this disorder seek medical attention for things such as anxiety, depression, or other symptoms.

Furthermore, we were talking about personality as a lesser form of these disorders, and the idea wasn't that I actually have the disorder, but that certain elements of my personality can be seen as being watered-down versions of these disorders. In addition, we both also agreed that in each of our personalities one could find a water-down version of narcissistic personality disorder.

Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is a personality disorder in which the individual is described as being excessively preoccupied with issues of personal adequacy, power, prestige and vanity. This condition only affects one half percent of the population. In the United States this accounts for approximatly 1,500,000 individuals. First formulated in 1968, it was historically called megalomania, and it is closely linked to egocentrism.

Symptoms of this disorder include, but are not limited to:
Reacts to criticism with anger, shame, or humiliation
May take advantage of others to reach their own goal
Tends to exaggerate their own importance, achievements, and talents
Imagines unrealistic fantasies of success, beauty, power, intelligence, or romance
Requires constant attention and positive reinforcement from others
Easily becomes jealous
Lacks empathy and disregards the feelings of others
Obsessed with oneself
Mainly pursues selfish goals
Trouble keeping healthy relationships
Is easily hurt and rejected
Sets unrealistic goals
Wants "the best" of everything
Appears as tough-minded or unemotional

The symptoms of Narcissistic personality disorder can be similar to the traits of individuals with strong self-esteem and confidence; differentiation occurs when the underlying psychological structures of these traits are considered pathological. Narcissists have such an elevated sense of self-worth that they value themselves as inherently better than others. Yet, they have a fragile self-esteem and cannot handle criticism, and will often try to compensate for this inner fragility by belittling or disparaging others in an attempt to validate their own self-worth. It is this sadistic tendency that is characteristic of narcissism as opposed to other psychological conditions affecting level of self-worth.

In children, inflated self-views and grandiose feelings, which are characteristics of narcissism, are part of the normal self-development. Children are typically unable to understand the difference between their actual from ideal self, which causes an unrealistic perception of the self. After about age 8, views of the self, both positive and negative, begin to develop based on comparisons of peers & become more realistic. Two factors that cause self-view to remain unrealistic are dysfunctional interactions with parents that can be a lack or excessive attention. The child will either compensate for lack of attention or act in terms of unrealistic self-perception.

The CNS, Childhood Narcissism Scale, measurements concluded that narcissistic children seek to impress others & gain admiration but do not have any interest in creating sincere friendships. CNS researchers have measured that childhood narcissism has become more prevalent in Western society: any types of activities (raising a child to their education applications)[clarification needed], which focus on overly praising the individual, can raise narcissistic levels. More research is needed to find the reasons that promote or protect against narcissism.

I think this example does a good job of demonstrating the point. See, I exhibit a good number of these qualities. But the thing is, I don't "lack empathy and disregard the feelings of others", nor do I "not have any interest in creating sincere friendships". I'm pretty much on the opposite end of those two qualities. But I do genuinely think I'm better than other people and exhibit lesser versions of many of those other traits. In other words, I have narcissistic qualities, but I don't have NPD. Same goes for schizoid and/or schizotypal.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

Really, Z, I don't see you as a 6w5. Clearly more as 5w6. You look so much like house, type 6 people usually develop a "normal" style, the counterphobic a more fantasist and "bad boy" style, buyt seldom that style of goofy doctor.

6s are unpreductable, their behavior come from one extreme to another, depend of their phobic or counterphobic mood. Your personality seems more constant and equal, withdrawing and compartimentalizing competence to get power.

Also, you are more simiolar with 5w4 than 6w7, which leans 5w6 to me.

 

[Zarathustra]

Really, Z, I don't see you as a 6w5. Clearly more as 5w6. You look so much like house, type 6 people usually develop a "normal" style, the counterphobic a more fantasist and "bad boy" style, buyt seldom that style of goofy doctor.

6s are unpreductable, their behavior come from one extreme to another, depend of their phobic or counterphobic mood. Your personality seems more constant and equal, withdrawing and compartimentalizing competence to get power.

Also, you are more simiolar with 5w4 than 6w7, which leans 5w6 to me.

+2 for the bolded

As I said somewhere earlier, 5 seems to be the only one where both wings fit.

I suppose you could somewhat say I could lean towards 7 wing, as I do have a hedonistic streak (I'm blacked out and photobombing a group of girls in that profile pic, speedy), but I look at 7s and get really annoyed, cuz their behavior all just seems so immature to me. To me, that kind of speaks of being against going into my 7 disintegration point.

Also, something about "withdrawing and compartimentalizing competence to get power" really speaks to me.​

-1 (sorry) for the underlined

Isn't House sort of a "bad boy" himself, tho? And, realistically, I do have a bit of a "bad boy" image I project, but, and I'm sorry to bring it to this, but I mentioned it on [MENTION=5627]BlackCat[/MENTION]'s wall last night: I'm a Scorpio rising, and, as myself, my last two girlfriends, and several other friends have noted, it fits me to a tee:​

Scorpio Ascendant (Rising Sign) description

Scorpio Ascendant people have a lot of presence. There is something about them that tells the world that they are not to be pushed around. Their manner commands respect, and in some cases, fear. Scorpio rising people can be quiet or loud, but they always seem powerful and determined.

You either love or hate Scorpio rising people— they are rarely people who go through life unnoticed. In fact, some of them are confused when faced with the fact that they get such strong reactions from others. They seem to look right through people, seeing through superficiality. This can be quite intimidating to some, and intriguing to others. Scorpio rising people, in their dealings with others, look for answers by reading between the lines. Surface details are discarded when they are getting a feel for people and situations around them.

Scorpio rising people value their privacy so much, it can border on paranoia. They have a strong need to control their environment and are experts at strategy. Rarely people who will blow their chances with impatience, they plan out their moves carefully and deliberately, relying on their awesome ability to feel out others and situations.

Scorpio rising natives are drawn to down-to-earth, natural partners. Reliability in their partner is very important. They generally look for complete commitment and have little patience with flighty partners.

The Ascendant (or rising sign) is often considered the mask one wears when meeting others. Perhaps it is most aptly thought of as the automatic responses to one's environment. The Ascendant shows our natural defenses and how we cope with day-to-day issues. The energies of the sign and condition of the Ascendant are most overt and obvious to others. The Ascendant shows an individual's first, natural reaction to new people and situations.

The characteristics of Scorpio Ascendant described above are modified by planets conjunct the Ascendant, planets that aspect the Ascendant, and the position of the ruling planet of the sign on the Ascendant. For example, a person with a Scorpio Ascendant with its ruling planet, Mars, in Sagittarius will respond to the environment a little differently than another person, also with a Scorpio Ascendant, but whose Mars is in Capricorn. (Note that Scorpio has two rulers, the other being Pluto, which is very slow-moving). Similarly, a person with a Scorpio Ascendant who also has Saturn conjunct it will "behave" differently than someone with a Scorpio Ascendant who does not have that aspect in their natal charts.*

*This is the first time I've ever heard of this, but, rather crazily, it's actually part of my chart. I can't find any info about it, though.

Actually, searched elsewhere on the internet, and found this:

Ascendant Conjunct Saturn

You are conservative and self-disciplined in your behavior. You tend to be shy about asserting yourself, so people may assume that you are indifferent to them. You have strong doubts about your self- worth which makes you cautious when meeting competition. This lack of self-confidence will eventually be replaced by self-assurance as you learn through experience to understand yourself. You do not have the kind of aggressive drive that impresses people on first meeting, but you show reliability and they learn they can depend on you. Others see your good qualities long before you realize them, for you are self-effacing by nature and prefer the sidelines rather than the spotlight.

You are efficient in mobilizing your resources and are sure to realize your goals, but you underestimate your abilities. You are a slow starter who needs the reassurance of some successful endeavors before you define your objectives and make careful plans to achieve them. You are prepared to grow one step at a time in achieving the excellence of which you are most capable. When a decision is required, you tend to hesitate because you want to be sure first.

You sometimes miss opportunities for fear that you will be ridiculed if you make the wrong decision. You would never let anyone down who depends on you for you are responsible to a fault. Learn to love yourself more so you can feel you deserve the good things in life that you have worked so diligently to obtain. You can be victimized by people who take advantage of your unwillingness to fight for your rights, but you never forget such incidents. Although you are not a vindictive person, you will bide your time until the moment comes when anyone who has wronged you needs your assistance; then you repay them with cool indifference.

You are a person of quiet determination who keeps at something until it is complete, particularly in personal relationships. You may not get intimately acquainted with a potential lover right away, but you are persistent and will not give up on a desire until you are sure it is beyond your reach.

Because of this style, you seem to be older and more mature than your years even at an early age. Once you really are mature, you blossom into a sort of agelessness. This tends to attract two kinds of people: those who intend to get seriously involved on a mature, adult level, and those who are seeking a parent figure to lean on. You may be very tempted to have a fling with a lover who sees you as a parental figure, especially since you have so much control over such a person.

However, it is wise to avoid that kind of entanglement. Once in, you will find it rather difficult to get out, and if you try, your partner may undergo a crisis like that of leaving home for an adolescent, for such a person is still emotionally very immature. It would be better to find an older or more mature and serious partner, even though you may find it hard to keep up at times. The results will be more rewarding.

Scorpio Ascendant (Rising Sign) with ruling planets, Mars and Pluto, in the signs.

The following interpretations incorporate the position, by sign, of Mars, the ruling planet of Scorpio. Note that Pluto also rules Scorpio, and interpretations for Scorpio rising with Pluto in the signs follow the Mars interpretations. The sign position of Mars modifies your Scorpio Ascendant characteristics. These interpretations are from the Karmic Insight Report, and are written from an esoteric viewpoint.

The point that was on the eastern horizon at the moment of your birth is called the ASCENDANT, or rising sign. While the Sun describes your conscious direction and current life focus, and the Moon your subconscious predisposition and past, the Ascendant indicates a way of being that transcends and embraces past, present, and future. It describes the way you engage and merge with the outer world and how you bring through into life the energies depicted by the Sun, the Moon, and the rest of your birth chart. Everything is filtered through the Ascendant from an esoteric point of view. It indicates your soul's function and thus a key part of your destiny.

Scorpio Rising - General

You have keen animal instincts, a deeply instinctual and passionate nature, and access to forces that can be used for healing and regeneration - of yourself, other individuals, or society. Strong-willed and powerful in a quiet understated sort of way, you are always a force with which to be reckoned. You know intuitively where another's pain or weakness lies, and can thus be a natural healer - or a terrible enemy, if your energies are directed toward conflict. Learning to trust and follow your instincts, and to focus your will upon positive intents, are keys to fulfilling your highest destiny. Your ruling planets are Mars and Pluto.

Scorpio Rising and Mars in Virgo

Your Mars is in Virgo, suggesting service through specialized skills, knowledge, or technical expertise; also an interest in biology, chemistry, the medical or health sciences. You have keen powers of observation and analysis, and you work thoroughly and efficiently (some might say obsessively). When out of balance you can worry excessively and be a bitter critic of the world and/or yourself.

You often function as the power behind the throne or as a shrewd advisor to others.

Scorpio Rising and Pluto in Libra

Your Pluto in Libra reveals a drive for justice, fairness, equality, and bringing the scales back into balance. You tend to see the injustices and corruption, and part of your function is indeed to bring wrongs to light. The balance of power in personal relationships is also a key concern of yours.

^This last one actually gets a little crazier, too, cuz my Pluto in Libra is actually conjunct my Ascendant.

Ascendant Conjunct Pluto

You have the power to determine the kind of world that can be constructed from its available resources. You know how difficult it is to function and develop under environmental conditions and economic pressures that frustrate you at every turn, but it is in your grasp to arouse the people to make public officials yield to their demands. You can play an important role in urging the public to eliminate the parasites who cause decaying social conditions and the depraved human qualities that lead to them. Because you speak and conduct yourself with authority, no one dares dismiss you merely as a troublesome critic. You are not easily aroused to taking action unless the situation is serious. If it is, you will use every trick you can devise to compel those responsible to take the actions that are necessary to restore order from chaos. You will not be satisfied until a system is working effectively.

You do not tolerate abuse in your personal affairs either. In general you know what you want out of life and are ready to make any investment in talent and effort to realize your goals. You defend those entrusted to your care, and the people you love know you will protect their interests at all costs. You must guard against driving yourself or others to excess. Choose your adversaries with care, or you could antagonize someone who would deal violently with you. You tend to bring out the worst qualities in people at times.

Your personality has a strong impact on others in one-on-one situations, which can be a tremendous asset if you are careful in the way you use it. You can overwhelm people quite easily, which will not lead to successful relationships unless you learn when to pull back and give your partner freedom for personal assertion and communication.

The lesson you must learn is to use the power of your personality for the good of both partners in a relationship and not merely to serve your own goals. You may need to watch yourself carefully, for it is easy for you to step in and take control of the situation, especially if a less assertive partner seems to accept it at the time. But you may be stepping on your partner's toes without realizing it.

The unspoken resentment that builds up will eventually explode and destroy the whole relationship. You must be very careful to give your partner plenty of room and enough time to make decisions uninfluenced by you, even if you feel an urgent need to step in and make the decision yourself. If power plays and games or attempts at domination must exist in the relationship, it is better to fulfill this need through bedroom fantasies. In that way both you and your partner can learn more about your inner needs and drives without interfering with the external course of the affair.

Alternate descriptions of Scorpio Rising

A Spiritual Interpretation of Scorpio Rising

The following interpretation of Scorpio Rising is from Your Spiritual Path Report.

"You have already taken a few steps on the spiritual path, and you have dedicated your life to your spiritual nature to some degree. The intense desire nature within you continues, however, to pull you toward the physical expression. You constantly find yourself at a turning point between pursuing a material desire and following a more spiritual inclination.

You have the capacity for major changes in your life. Others may find your decisions remarkable, as you can take a 180 degree turn with relative ease. Each of these major shifts brings you closer to understanding the unfolding plan of your spiritual life. At this time you may appear to be motivated only by material desires, but each turning takes you further on the spiritual path. If you look back, you can see that your decisions have all blended into one direction. You see the logical unfolding of spirit woven into seemingly disjointed actions and decisions.

First you test your physical appetites with food, sexual desire and physical comfort. These may become rather boring. Ambition and the desire for power increase the emotional thrill and the momentary pay-off. At the third stage you tackle mental challenges of spiritual pride. If you can transcend all three levels, you then function from a more spiritual base. You cease to seek physical emotional and mental thrills for their own sake, and use your personal power to transform your own life and to help others.

You face a tall order if you are to make spiritual progress. You need to remember your own beginnings as you seek success in any of your endeavors, spiritual or otherwise."

Scorpio Ascendant from the Cosmo Natal Report:

"You are very strong-willed and proud, but intensely private and not easy to know well. Behind your quiet exterior lies a great deal of emotional depth, sensitivity, complexity, and also fierce determination. When you want something you go after it rather quietly but insistently and wholeheartedly - and you usually get it.

You are not a person who lives lightly or superficially. You want to live passionately and intensely and are not averse to challenge, danger, or to facing the darker side of life - human pain and struggle. You function well in crisis situations and often seek them out, for you enjoy the feeling of living at full capacity.

You are very intuitive about other people and especially about their unspoken feelings and hidden motives. You usually have strong, immediate gut reactions, either positive or negative, which prove to be correct. You approach life very instinctively and are not always fully conscious of why you feel or act as you do. You also have a very strong affinity with animals - an acute sensitivity and a nonverbal kind of rapport with them.

In relation to others, you are rather cautious, sometimes even suspicious, until you get to know and trust them - and trust doesn't come easily to you. When you commit yourself emotionally to someone, be it friend or lover, you are intensely loyal and devoted to them and you also expect the same kind of unwavering, undying loyalty in return. If you are ever betrayed by someone you care deeply for, you are capable of hating and retaliating with as much fervor as you once loved. Nothing is done halfway. In fact, you are intensely involved and often jealously attached to whatever you care about, be it person, idea, or cause. There is definitely a streak of emotional fanaticism in you.

Because of your natural reserve, others may see you as something of an enigma. You are quite self-protective and often defensive. You are also very magnetic, especially to members of the opposite sex."

Scorpio Ascendant

Your psychological nature is bilious with aggressive impulses that spur the transformation of your being and of any situation you are involved in. You are constantly struggling to assert yourself. You cannot refrain from testing others with cutting remarks, not because you want to hurt them, but because you want to know them better through their reaction; life and the feeling of aliveness are experienced through rebellion and tension. Your aggressive attitude may equate with sly inquisition as often, you remain silent, introverted and secretive, mulling over turbulent thoughts in the depths of your mind, leaving others puzzled by your quite strange behaviour.

With this Ascendant, you come across as secretive, powerful, dominating, enduring, intuitive, assertive, charismatic, magnetic, wilful, daring, clear-sighted, passionate, creative, independent, vigorous, generous, loyal, hard-working, persevering, indomitable, possessive, shrewd, stubborn, ambitious, instinctive, tenacious, sexual, sexy, proud, intense and competitive. But you may also be aggressive, destructive, stubborn, anxious, tyrannical, perverse, sadistic, violent, self-centered, complex, critical, cruel, nasty, jealous, calculating, vulnerable and dissembling.

I know people don't believe in astrology, and, as I always reiterate, I take it with a grain of salt, but that description is so absurdly accurate of me -- I think both [MENTION=9602]YWIR[/MENTION] and [MENTION=10780]Patches[/MENTION], within a short period of time, both made mention of how I provoke strong reactions from people, and that people seem to either love me or hate me (and I'm aware of this, and have pretty much always known it to be true), in the Random Thought thread -- I can't help but feel it colors people's perceptions of me (which is what the rising sign is all about). Also, wouldn't Scorpio rising probably cause people to potentially think 6>5, and wouldn't this description be an accurate thing to say about someone who is sx/so?

 

[Speed Gavroche]

-1 (sorry) for the underlined

So globally it's a +1? Cool.

]

Isn't House sort of a "bad boy" himself, tho? And, realistically, I do have a bit of a "bad boy" image I project,​

Indeed, but I think you missed the second part of my line about the "doctor" style. I mean House is an antisocial bad boy but he comes up as an academic doctor guy. That's also this style, and 6w5 are very little like this.

I believe somehow in astrolmogy. And the Scorpio ascendant description fits with you. I noticed a few people on this board who are Scorpio rising, including Marmie Dearest (Gemini Sun) who's a Sexual 6w7 and Chloé (Leo Sun) who's a Sexual 3.

I found a list of famous Scorpio Rising people, I kept only thoses that I knew the enneatype, so there's:

Nicole Kidman 3w4 Sp/So (Gemini Sun)
Nathalie Portman 1w2 Sx/Sp (Gemini Sun)
Vanessa Paradis 7w8 Sx/Sp (Capricorn Sun)
Edward Norton 6w5 So/Sx
Megan Fox 7w6 Sx/So (Taurus Sun)
Sigmund Freud 6w5 So/Sp (Taurus Sun)
Clint Eastwood 8w9 Sp/Sx (Gemini Sun)
Rafael Nadal 9w8 Sp/Sx
Gwen Stefani 3w4 Sx/So (Libra sun)
Jacky Kennedy 3w4 Sp/Sx
Ville Vallo 4w5 Sx/Sp (Sagittarius Sun)
Jim Carrey 7w6 So/Sx
Edith Piaf 4w3 Sx/So (Sagittarius Sun)
Cary Grant 7w8 So/Sx (Capricorn Sun)
Friedrich Nietzche 5w6 Sx/So (Libra Sun)
Prince 4w3 Sx/Sp (Gemini Sun)
Vladimir Poutine 6w5 Sp/So
Keith Richard 7w8 Sx/So (Sagittarius Sun)
Sai Baba 2w1 Sx/So (Sagittarius Sun)
Tori Amos 3w4 Sx/So (Leo Sun)
Robin Williams 7w6 So/Sx
Margaret Thatcher 1w2 So/Sp
David Lynch 5w4 Sp/Sx
Katharin Hepburn (Taurus Sun)
Diana Ross 2w3 Sx/Sp (Gemini Sun)
Geri Halliwell 7w6 Sx/So (Leo Sun)
Simone de Beauvoir 5w4 So/Sx
Diane Keaton 6w5 So/Sx


So, this rising sign is not related to one enneatype in particulary, but there may be a correlation with being Sx-dom, Sx/So in particulary, a lot of what you say can be related to Sx/So ness too.​

 

[Zarathustra]

Alright, took the test you recommended [MENTION=5999]PeaceBaby[/MENTION].

Here are my results:

Your Report Summary:
Top ranked Enneacard overall: Type 6
Top Ranked Enneacard in your Enneaspread: Type 1
Potential Wing(s): 5
Potential Tritype: 683

I don't know what the Type 1 deal was all about.

I also had a really tough decision between 8 and 9 for the second part of my tritype, so 683 and 693 would both be helpful.

I have to say, I was impressed with the test (there were a few points where my orderings started getting contradictory, which was interesting, but I just went with what felt right anyway, and, in the end, it seemed to have delivered the right answer), but the 1,500-word write-up they offer was overly generalistic (not nearly specific enough to your results to be very helpful).

Did you say you had some write-ups on the tritypes you'd be able to offer?

Thanks

 

[Zarathustra]

What I have found thus far:

27 archetypes
Tritype Archetype
125, 251, 512 The Mentor
126, 261, 612 The Supporter
127, 271, 712 The Teacher
135, 351, 513 The Technical Expert
136, 361, 613 The Taskmaster
137, 371, 713 The Systems Builder
145, 451, 514 The Researcher
146, 416, 614 The Philosopher
147, 417, 714 The Visionary
258, 582, 825 The Strategist
259, 592, 925 The Problem Solver
268, 682, 826 The Rescuer
269, 692, 926 The Good Samaritan
278, 782, 827 The Free Spirit
279, 792, 927 The Peacemaker
358, 583, 835 The Solution Master
359, 593, 935 The Thinker
368, 683, 836 The Justice Fighter
369, 639, 936 The Mediator
378, 738, 837 The Mover and Shaker
379, 739, 937 The Ambassador
458, 548, 845 The Scholar
459, 549, 945 The Contemplative
468, 648, 846 The Truth Teller
469, 649, 946 The Seeker
478, 748, 847 The Messenger
479, 749, 947 The Gentle Spirit

368 – The Justice Fighter and is a Debater Archetype

I was asked the differences between the 361, the 368 and the 369 tritypes. Since the question is which gut type is dominant. At a glance, it is most helpful to look at activity levels. The 361 is very industrious and busy doing to avoid anxiety, the 1 brings a need to do what is morally correct. The 368 is focused on fighting for justice, the 8 brings a need to overcome and prevail. The 369 is highly adaptable and focused on being in comfortable alignment with others.

The sx 683 is a very dynamic 6. This tritype has consistently reported being predominantly counter-phobic. A true fighter this tritype goes the distance for others. This tritype with 6 dominant is very loyal, feisty and achievement oriented.

(3)-6-8 - The Reactive 3
3-(6)-8 - The Aggressive 6
3-6-(8) - The Normative 8

Characterized by confrontation. Immovably disagreeable. They stay firm in their direction and beliefs and won't let anyone but themselves change that.

For some, it depends what type you put first. For example :
6-83 : Debator
8-63 : Justice fighter
3-68 : Some sort of image concious justice preacher

368, 683, 836 - The Justice Fighter - Verbally adept and a good reader of people and situations, you have the ability to identify unjust authority, rebel against tyranny and verbally spar against it. Your life mission is to challenge what is unfair and protect the innocent. A true justice fighter, you are happiest when you can use your protective energy and debating skills in service of others or a cause. Your blind spot is that you can be so identified with challenging what you perceive as unfair that you become overbearing, confrontational, anti-authoritarian, and indifferent to the wisdom of emotional intelligence and your tender emotions. Your growing edge is to recognize that your need to challenge and oppose can keep you from knowing who you are or what you feel. True protection comes from being in alignment with your higher self and knowing when to intervene and when to allow events to unfold.

eight with a three fix: the notably success oriented, prominence seeking eight. utilizes
image and manipulation to advance their career or enterprise.
business achievement can lead to political aspirations.

If you examine this by tritype, you will find that we identify with this definition in a specific way. For example, as a sexual 874, I like to do my thing and execute what interests me and will push myself for my intimates... but I do not like to prepare and perform. The 873 would feel more comfortable performing, the 863 preparing and so on.

683
Direct and focused 6. This 6 can appear 3ish or 8ish. This is the Justice Fighter, 6. The 6s are good achievers and debaters. They are the most confrontational 6. They are usually the CP6 and make good Trial Attorneys.
The core fears are of fear itself, danger, being alone, cowardice, submitting, deviance, uncertainty, being targeted, chaos, weakness, being controlled, disempowered, humiliated, vulnarable, at the mercy of injustice, failure, being incapable or unable to do, inefficient, second best, and unmasked.

The 368 is very dynamic. This is the toughest fighter on the Enneagram. They focus on justice and are quick to react and seek the advantage in the service of justice. The 6 with this tritype identifies with type 8 and is counter-phobic.

The 846 is one of the most confrontational tritypes. The other is the 836. The 6 amplifies the 8 need for loyalty and trust.

I gotta say... this tritype shit is pretty good...

I've looked at the one above (359 - The Thinker) and the one below me (369 - The Mediator), and they don't sound like me.

Most everything it says about 683s was spot on.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

Trifix is just Forrer Effect, Z. Don't waste your time with that.

 

[Zarathustra]

Oh you 9w1s, leaving me similar reps for the same posts within 10 minutes of each other...

Trifix is just Forrer Effect, Z. Don't waste your time with that.

It's tough to argue with the results speedy:

The sx 683 is a very dynamic 6. This tritype has consistently reported being predominantly counter-phobic. A true fighter this tritype goes the distance for others. This tritype with 6 dominant is very loyal, feisty and achievement oriented.

(3)-6-8 - The Reactive 3
3-(6)-8 - The Aggressive 6
3-6-(8) - The Normative 8

Characterized by confrontation. Immovably disagreeable. They stay firm in their direction and beliefs and won't let anyone but themselves change that.

For some, it depends what type you put first. For example :
6-83 : Debator
8-63 : Justice fighter
3-68 : Some sort of image concious justice preacher

368, 683, 836 - The Justice Fighter - Verbally adept and a good reader of people and situations, you have the ability to identify unjust authority, rebel against tyranny and verbally spar against it. Your life mission is to challenge what is unfair and protect the innocent. A true justice fighter, you are happiest when you can use your protective energy and debating skills in service of others or a cause. Your blind spot is that you can be so identified with challenging what you perceive as unfair that you become overbearing, confrontational, anti-authoritarian, and indifferent to the wisdom of emotional intelligence and your tender emotions. Your growing edge is to recognize that your need to challenge and oppose can keep you from knowing who you are or what you feel. True protection comes from being in alignment with your higher self and knowing when to intervene and when to allow events to unfold.

683
Direct and focused 6. This 6 can appear 3ish or 8ish. This is the Justice Fighter, 6. The 6s are good achievers and debaters. They are the most confrontational 6. They are usually the CP6 and make good Trial Attorneys.

The core fears are of fear itself, danger, being alone, cowardice, submitting, deviance, uncertainty, being targeted, chaos, weakness, being controlled, disempowered, humiliated, vulnarable, at the mercy of injustice, failure, being incapable or unable to do, inefficient, second best, and unmasked.

I mean, that all sounds exactly like me.

 

[Zarathustra]

I suppose the 583 or 538 would be the next closest:

358 – The Solution Master Archetype

The 135, 358, and 359 tritypes are naturally inclined to be tenacious and persistent.

The 835 is the ambitious, tenacious, opinionated, tough minded, hard nosed, foundation building, mental giant that is in denial of and minimizing of their more tender emotions.

835, 358, 538

If you are a 358, you are ambitious, knowledgeable and protective. You want to be efficient, wise and straight-forward. Tough-minded, you are good at studying a problem and finding both original and practical solutions others miss. Highly tenacious, you work tirelessly until you find solutions and prevail against adversity.

Your life mission is to use your cleverness and astute powers of observation to serve the greater good. A true problem solver, you are happiest when you can evaluate what is needed and take action to create change.

You can be so focused on your goals and ideas that you become an opinionated, hardnosed thinker that are in denial of your feelings. You can feel so vulnerable that you refuse to let in the importance and wisdom of your painful emotions.

835: Focused and knowledgeable 8. Most scholarly 8, especially if introverted. Most impersonal 8, especially if self-preserving.

(3)-5-8 - The Power-Seeking 3
3-(5)-8 - The Aggressive 5
3-5-(8) - The Competent 8

Extreme narcissism. They believe that they are better than everyone else, and that they can handle anything that comes at them. They feel as though they are capable of anything and have ambitious plans.

5-8-3: Most measured and goal-oriented Five.
(I would have phrased it as “results-oriented.”)

five with an eight fix: least intellectual, though perhaps the most mentally
intense. unsettled by occasional fits of temper,
sudden outbursts. affixed to notions of power;
attitude of resigned realist. quietly guarded and
insistent, may put others ill at ease.

eight with a three fix: the notably success oriented, prominence seeking eight. utilizes
image and manipulation to advance their career or enterprise.
business achievement can lead to political aspirations.

I'm 835. Low sensitivity? Yeah. I don't pick up on interpersonal subtleties well or acknowledge soft emotions in others, esp. at work. I need to see clear expressions of hurt to know that I'm being too forceful. And by then, I've already run the person down.

Truth and Justice? Big time. Society could never give me justice if my line has been crossed. I've got to seek it out for myself.

The 835, 358 and 538 tritypes struggle with sensitivity the most

I can see parts of myself in your description from the standpoint of Tritype 538.
My core type is a 5 social illiterate who feels that he cannot effectively participate in society, on this alien planet, without first mastering the language... of human social interaction. Once a certain level of mastery is attained, the compensatory social presentation is 3ish in flavor. 8 represents my ace-in-the-hole when the going gets tough.

All 5s report that they felt that they missed the handbook that explained how to read and understand social signals when they were young. On another note, the 538 is more authentic due to the 8.

Just saw 'The Social Network' and Mark Z. is played as a Social 538 Tritype. Very tough, unemotional, brilliant mind, and Social instinct totally out of control. The character wants social status over personal connection or money

The 4-5-8 is the most direct and blunt of all the tritypes, with the exception of perhaps 3-5-8.

8-3-5 is the most direct combination.

If 583 is your tritype then you probably have an air self-confidence hiding your nerdiness.

5-3-8: more ambitious, competitive and assertive than others, these Fives stand out through their leadership abilities. They are rather good at managing people and know how to employ their powers and competencies in order to obtain an effective result. Pragmatic, goal-oriented and driven, but also a tad arrogant and egotistical, they know how to influence a situation to their advantage. And yet, although they are proficient in authority positions, others can find them quite unsympathetic and self-interested, with very little interest in people who cannot be of clear use to them.
typical subtypes: social, sexual, balanced wings
similar tritypes: 5-8-3, 3-5-8, 8-5-3
flavours: self-confident, pragmatic, hard-working and narcissistic

5-8-3: a more ambitious, materialistic and dominant Five, who has a talent for leadership and a desire for achievement. More competitive and assertive than others, these Fives manage to get out of their shells more often to experience life in a more direct manner and obtain a position of power and success. Although still reserved and secretive, they exude a certain amount of self-confidence and strength which prevents their true vulnerabilities from being guessed by others (a huge fear of this tritype).
typical subtypes: social, self-preserving, 5w6 (counterphobic wing)
similar tritypes: 5-3-8, 8-5-3
flavours: poised, ambitious, domineering and territorial

 

[Zarathustra]

Actually, I think it might be between 683 and 684...

468 – The Truth Teller Archetype

These 2 tritypes come across as very different because the 8 in the 486 makes the 6 counter phobic and therefore comes across as more aggressive. The 469 comes across as more passive aggressive.
The 468 reacts and rings the alarm to prevent makind a mistake to calm down and the 469 doubts and procrastinates to avoid making a mistake.... To calm down.

*most reactive-468, 864, 648

The 468 is constantly calling off truth as they see it and sees it as their business to warn people of the potential downfalls and pitfalls in the emotional and mental world. It's the type in each center that is "truth telling" and tends to be the most reactive, even hyperreactive. She said it's typically sexual subtype, but she's seen social too. There's a tendency to feel an acute sense of disappointment because their incredibly acuity at seeing the problems ahead or the potential pitfalls of any situation causes people to misunderstand their reactivity and emotionality.

If you are 468, you are intuitive, inquisitive and direct. You want to be original, certain and straight-forward. You are highly sensitive, track inconsistencies and are like the ‘canary in the coal mine’ calling off unspoken agendas, motives and emotions. You are also very intense and can at times be rebellious and emotionally reactive. Your life mission is to identify what is insincere and not what it appears to be, and alert others of potential hazards. A whistleblower, you are happiest when you are in a position to help others from being misled. You can be so focused on what can go wrong and on potential hazards that you miss how controlling you become and your impact on others and what is truly important and meaningful.

468...intensity

where 468 push for a response while 459 move away.

You have all three Immediate Responder Enneacards
(Enneagram Types: 4, 6 & 8) in your Enneaspread.
You see yourself as intense, responsive, challenging and instinctive. You avoid insincerity and people with hidden agendas. Like a canary in a coal mine, you are sensitive to what others miss. You tend to react strongly to pretense, seeking to call off the truth before moving forward.

I was asked the differences between the 361, the 368 and the 369 tritypes. Since the question is which gut type is dominant. At a glance, it is most helpful to look at activity levels. The 361 is very industrious and busy doing to avoid anxiety, the 1 brings a need to do what is morally correct. The 368 is focused on fighting for justice, the 8 brings a need to overcome and prevail. The 369 is highly adaptable and focused on being in comfortable alignment with others.

the 468 is a true challenger and truth teller. The 4 may be shy but this Tritype is very intense and reactive--quick to speak their mind. The 485 is the true intellectual that has strong opinions about their feelings and thoughts but less reactivity. Sexual instinct with 4 dominant makes both tritypes more intense. The 468, however, is more dutiful and feisty whereas the 458 is one of the tritypes that lives in their head researching and following their own muse.

As a sx468, It will feel counter-intuitive but you can learn ways to manage the anxiety that is underneath the reactivity. When you feel threatened and the fear of being inadequate rises, take a long deep breath and exhale....first...It is simply your adrenaline running and filling you with emotional anxiety. It is emotional panic and fear of isolation, blame, abandonment and/or separation. It feels life threatening so remind yourself that the intense feelings will decrease... stay connected to your gut and you will feel more connected to yourself. That way you can deliver your truth of the message and be heard rather than becoming the problem.
4s in general hold the archetype of the mystery, the erotic feminine principle, chaos, beauty, tragedy, and most of all the role of emotional familiarity. The 468 is meant to name the emotional truth that is unspoken and therefore missing and to go on a quest to find it.

Each Enneagram Type has a trap, a hook so to speak. The trap for the 468 to believe that your identity is tied to what you name and to need others to acknowledge it or believe it. If you hold on to the higher truth of your intuitive insights rather than your feelings surrounding them, more and more, they will flow through you to the right person, at the right time. I have found the 468 to be at times one of the most challenging Tritypes but more importantly, by far one of the most sensitive, intuitive, compassionate and heroic.

The 468 has a counter-phobic 6 and.... the 4 is counter-envious... as in...they hate being envious and try to contain their their negative emotions. The problem is that the 468 is impulsive and emotional....often confronting before they think about it.

The 486 is much more assertive that the 416. The 461 tends to being very critical of themselves to avoid being criticized. This tritype is very particular The 416 hesitates and the 486 impulsively reacts. A perceived threat to the primary instinct triggers the tritype.

‎846 vs 845. These two tritypes are very different. Both take charge and seek solutions. The 846 is one of the most confrontational tritypes. The other is the 836. The 6 amplifies the 8 need for loyalty and trust. The 845 is more introverted and introspective. The 854 has 5 as a line of connection as well as in the tritype and makes this 8 more scholarly and focused on depth.

4-6-8 - The Hot Head

This type is characterize by their reactivity. The tend to initiate conflict and take offense easily. They me feel that everyone is out to get them.

468 - Inquisitive and direct 4. Most rebellious, reactive and direct 4, especially if sexual subtype.

The 458 is an active archetype...just more withdrawn...not passive like the librarian... more the expert as they gather knowledge but have a very definite point of view like the 478 and 468.

Other persistent tritypes are the 125, 145, 468. Aggression with tenacity or persistences makes one able to be relentless in their pursuits.

The 468 has the instinctual, emotional type in each center. And, there is a need to call off the truth of what is unspoken. I find the 468 to be very persistent... relentlessly so when seeking whatever ignites their passion

eight with a four fix: the moody, loner eight. distinct outsider quality; as if on a highly
personal mission. tendency to feel exempt from conventional rules
and circumstances.

6-4-8 Direct and intuitive 6, most reactive and feelingful, most rebellious tends to vacillate between feeling 8ish or 4ish.

Another example would be a 4-6-8. Here we have a more aggressive and reactive Type 4 than say a 4-9-5, who would be more withdrawn, passive (9) and avoidant (5).

The 468 is always visible as this tritype shoots from the hip and voices their concerns and opinions. They are the truth tellers.

I'm a 468. I'm direct, as I find this is the best way to communicate my feelings, or myself to others (being as sensitive as I am, I try my best to be compassionate, or not step anyone's toes while doing this. My mom says this makes me articulate). I feel confident in certain areas, but not so much in others (though I'd die if anyone knew that.) Others have told me I am funny, and seem tough (though I cry at the drop of the hat.) I'm a good judge of character, and am very intuitive. I can tell when people are dishonest or not how they want to seem, and it frustrates me when others do not see things from my perspective. If a friend undermines my judgment, I feel betrayed, and they seem disloyal. I find my biggest struggle is feeling hypersensitive. I can recognize when I'm being that way, but if something upsets me, it's often an incredibly overwhelming and powerful feeling that I feel I can't just put aside. At the time, I feel reacting is standing up for myself, but I later feel badly for hurting someone else.

In that case is much more possible the 468 because adds an intensity in 6 that makes it look like a 4.

Sx 4s, 6s and 8s can all be pretty [blocked due to guideline #4 violation]ing ruthless in their extermination of foes; take a sx 684 and you have a veritable pit bull, someone who potentially sees extermination as their mission. And given the truth telling nature of that tritype and sx/so (at least their truth), that tendency is also compounded. (Truth telling= extermination of lies)

I think all the emotion and reactivity of the 684 tritype and the passion and impulsiveness of sx/so is more than enough to over-ride the typical 6w5 characteristics of caution and consideration.

As a 468, I find it tough to be up all the time. I see the darkness, the shadow, that the emperor has no clothes, I see the truth behind the persona, the lie we tell collectively to avoid the pain underneath...

When the 4 and 6 are in the tritype there is more negativity as a strategy to prevent making a mistake that will bring shame, blame and criticism. This is most true of the 461 and then 468 and then the 469.

Has anyone else with this tritype had trouble letting things go?
When I finally got that I was a 6 I was able to see how I tested and provoked all the time. Finding out that I am a 684 really helped me to see even more.
Most of the time, I am playful and teasing. I watch 8 come in and push my 6 even more into justice issues. I am super loyal, too a fault. I like to have fun but I can be trouble now and then. I get that 4 is my heart type so I can be over the top at times. My emotions take over and it happens so fast that it is hard to manage my tendency to blurt. I call a spade a space which is why I thought I was an 8. I can see that I also need depth and meaning and am moody like a 4.
When they all come together in reaction I am way too intense for people. I still fight this tendency.

I also know a sp/sx 6w7 684. He's probably the most independent 6 I've ever known. Could be mistaken for an 8. His reactivity and intensity comes out much more in his actions and the sp hides a lot of it from view. You see the consequences of his reactivity rather than the reactivity itself.

Rebelling, reacting, and defending. (4-6-8)

Being a 468 and with the sexual instinctive center I find myself in a constant exploration of truth, and I find I discover my truth most profoundly in meaningful,open,intimate,honest connections that serve this higher purpose and not the relationship itself. It is the honest healthy mirroring that propels this quest into an accelerated personal growth of enlightenment.

The sx 468 is very impacted by truth and speaking to what is hidden, unknown or unspoken. The intensity of the sx 468 puts this tritype on the fast track.

sp 468. Truth is fundamental in my life too, it requires calm, openness, free from mental noise or emotional reaction. Slow exploring and understanding. It feels like being free from emotional hooks and forget false views from the society without fighting them, to restore a peaceful and benevolent sense of my own goodness and truth at 1. After that I can become really happy and powerful at helping others by simply explaining what I've understood about life.

The 458, 468 and 478 are all truth tellers in their own way. The 468 is the one that is hyper reactive and still seeks a fair authority.

as an Ennea-type 8 with a tritype of 846, the 4 heart fix plays out in an 8ish way. You still see the 8's motivations driving the 4, but the outward appearance of the defense mechanisms or behaviors becomes 4ish in nature when the heart fix gains prominence. This would be the same for the head fix.

468. As a 4, I don't like doing things. I like living things. So I try to find the things in which doing becomes living. It's wrting novels, short stories, writing and recording music. What I like best is listenning to the result when it's, beautiful, touching, complete and magical. I'm my geatest fan. But also love learning from people that have gone further than me, in reading or talk. Now I develop an other mode of doing where discipline is focused on. This is training. I love training to play or sing as perfectly. as I can. I relax, concentrate, leave eveything behind. It's energizing and brings clarity and purity. In this mode, 6 disapear, 4 stops self absobtion. 1 rules.
I can't speak for other 486s, but I like ideas and the search for truth and meaning, which means I'm constantly searching for new information, constantly curious, and one train of thought leads to another. (I even speak in parenthetical notes!) However, I feel better about myself when I get up and do more physical tasks, such as doing artwork, gardening, organizing, or cooking. I also find that when it comes to my teaching career, I'm motivated more by calling than duty. The focus on reading and research in order to understand theoretical foundations, derive meaningful insights, and gain inspiration to share with students is my constant driving force. (i've got a big, strong 5 wing operating underground, too.)

684 The Truth Teller. Direct and intuitive 6. This is the most reactive, creative and feelingful 6. Highly rebellious, this 6 is almost always the counter-phobic 6 with a heroic nature. Generally this 6 vacillates between being 8ish or 4ish.

The core fears are of fear itself, danger, being alone, cowardice, submitting, deviance, uncertainty, being targeted, chaos, weakness, being controlled, disempowered, humiliated, vulnerable, at the mercy of injustice, being inadequate, emotionally cut off ordinary, commonplace, and abandoned.

Both 4s and 6s can be emotional. The questions is what are you emotional about? In terms of difficult behaviors...
6s identify a source to prove
4s identify a source to impress
648 reactive, edgy

The sx with 4 brings emotional intensity and a need for closeness with desired intimates...and, there is anger if intimacy is thwarted or denied. The 468 is impulsive and highly reactive... the focus is on immediate resolution. The 469 feels a great deal of doubt and in general is not as reactive. There is more of a tendency to hesitate, plan and prepare with more anxiety.

The 469 is more phobic than the 468.

As 4 is dominant, in addition to seeing themselves as intuitive and deep with a need for beauty and aesthetics....The 479s see themselves as loving, innovative and gentle, the 468 as intense and iconoclastic and the 469 as thoughtful and introspective.

The 468 feels more inclined to be the truth teller at all costs so they take greater risks

I'm pretty intense and reactive. Inside I carry alot of anger, shame, protectiveness, and courage. I have to take alot of deep breaths throughout the day to center myself...I'm willing to confront people which has gotten me in alot of trouble, if I have a conflict with someone I like it to be finished...I like things out in the open...I am very invested in what is really going on underneath the surface...so I'm thinking 468.

sexual instinct combined with the 6 and 8 brings a strong sense of justice and a great need for loyalty. The sx 468 craves and gives devotion. The 468's heart is broken if they feel unseen or invisible to those they are bonded to...it feels like a deep betrayal if they feel like their feelings don't matter. They can't move forward until they feel heard. David says love your 4, hate your 4 but don't ignore your 4. When hurt, this tritype can come across as an emotional 8.
I know that in an intimate relationship that I feel deeply hurt and betrayed when my partner doesn't validate what I see or feel. For example, I have said to boyfriends "that girl was flirting with you and she was disrespecting me." If my partner dismisses me, doesn't acknowledge what I know happened, then I am deeply wounded....I start attempting to drive my point home by getting louder or being persistent. I wanted him to let me know that my intuition was right and display to the girl that he was taken. I have found that it helps the 468 and the 4 in general to remember that others for the most part are not trying to be insensitive. They simply see the situation through a different lens. The key is to remember that as a 4, you know and feel things at a deep and intuitive level. But....it is also important to remember that you will feel much better about your circumstances when you put your insights into context ...Think of how the other person might be feeling based on their type and life experiences rather than your own. The trap for the 468 is to feel hurt by drawing the wrong conclusion from a disappointing interaction. Your intuitions are correct but your conclusion may be flawed if you haven't considered the context....

Do you feel angry with him and then angry with yourself for being angry? Most sexual 468 do....It triggers the feelings of being inadequate. Be kind to the part of you that feels insignificant to your mate. Remember who you are...find the way that you unconsciously denigrate your feelings. It may elude you, but it is always there for 4s. Your reality is real. Simply add the critical data that will remind you that you are whole and complete regardless of how you feel treated, It is a very tall order for any 4 or sexual subtype but especially for the sexual 468. It can, however be the way back to your true self when you feel hurt and disoriented.
Don't be [angry/ashamed], it's the way you were made. And, that 4 intensity, when channeled, can change other's lives for the better. 4s are pioneers in their own way, and Sx4s can be very powerful. The fear of abandonment with 4s is very high, so they unconsciously over blame themselves for relationship issues. The more autonomous types have the opposite problem and need to become more self aware of their healthy dependencies and of their role in impacting others.

 

[Zarathustra]

Alright, and, lastly, I'm posting the 584, not because I think it's the most likely, but because I think looking between 683, 684, 583/538 and 584/548 will give me the best idea of what my tritype is. At present, I'd probably make it a tie between 683 and 684 (my ex, who's a 4w5, thought I have a lot of the elements of a 4 [not that I actually am a 4, but this came up during a discussion of whether I was a 5w6 or 5w4), with 583/538 and 584/548 (not sure in which order]) heading up the rear, but offering interesting contrasts to the first two.

458 – The Scholar Archetype

The 845 is the somewhat introverted, intelligent, headstrong, detached, hyper introspective problem solver with strategic thinking and emotional astuteness.

*Darkest tritype-458, 854, 584 (particularly when 4 or 5 are in charge)

Also if you are still considering 548 (or 845): she said this is the the most intense type, particularly if sexual. Intuitive, knowledgeable and direct. This is the type that really craves knowing what makes people tick and builds what she calls mental or internal maps that are quite astute as to what makes people do what they do. This tends to be the darkest of the tritypes because of the intensity of the 3 types (particularly if 4 or 5 is in charge). David said there is a propensity toward the grotesque, anatomical or intensely esoteric. This is the "true scholar" and the life mission is to disseminate what information is found. The blind spot is this has 3 types that can be prone to arrogance and the attachment to the internal map of what they've found can make them blind to new information as it comes in. So there will be a tendency to become fixed in their worldview or ideas particularly about people and not take in new information. So while the map is quite extraordinary that they've painted they may miss a whole region and thus not have the full picture. This is also the most cynical and the tendency to be so overly opinionated can make people turn off to their wisdom. She said when 8 is in charge there is a bit more compassion, and with an integrated 5 or 4 in charge you get a gifted spiritual teacher (Russ Hudson for example)
An intensely original archetype with a passion to explore and to find the hidden meaning in all things.

874 and 854 are very similar and can be difficult to distinguish as 8 has access to both 7 and 5. What is helpful is to look at the differences between 7 and 5. The most critical aspect engagement. The 7 engages and brings a positive outlook to the 84_. The 5 is more internal and brings more introversion and reserve. The 874 is more outgoing and spontaneous. it is the difference between facts vs activities.

‎854 and 862 share the self-possessed confidence with solution mastery. The 854 is the artsy and intellectual 8 -- with a secret self-consciousness. The 862 is the champion rescuer, protector with a great need to help-- more duty.

the 468 is a true challenger and truth teller. The 4 may be shy but this Tritype is very intense and reactive--quick to speak their mind. The 485 is the true intellectual that has strong opinions about their feelings and thoughts but less reactivity. Sexual instinct with 4 dominant makes both tritypes more intense. The 468, however, is more dutiful and feisty whereas the 458 is one of the tritypes that lives in their head researching and following their own muse.

‎846 vs 845. These two tritypes are very different. Both take charge and seek solutions. The 846 is one of the most confrontational tritypes. The other is the 836. The 6 amplifies the 8 need for loyalty and trust. The 845 is more introverted and introspective. The 854 has 5 as a line of connection as well as in the tritype and makes this 8 more scholarly and focused on depth.

(4)-5-8 - The Power-Seeking 4
4-(5)-8 - The Reactive 5
4-5-(8) - The Withdrawn 8

Impenetrable inner world. They are complex individuals, but they are more characterized by the way they tend to push everyone away from them.

5-8-4: Most Intense Five. Needs creativity. Can be moody and melancholy.

458 is the most tough-minded and opinionated 4.

458 - Knowledgeable and direct 4. Most analytical 4. Craves knowing what makes people tick. Stronger Opinions.

845: Intuitive and knowledgeable 8. Most withdrawn 8, specially if introverted, 9 wing and/or sp.

The 458 is an active archetype...just more withdrawn...not passive like the librarian... more the expert as they gather knowledge but have a very definite point of view like the 478 and 468.

five with an eight fix: least intellectual, though perhaps the most mentally intense. unsettled by occasional fits of temper, sudden outbursts. affixed to notions of power; attitude of resigned realist. quietly guarded and insistent, may put others ill at ease.

eight with a four fix: the moody, loner eight. distinct outsider quality; as if on a highly
personal mission. tendency to feel exempt from conventional rules
and circumstances.

The 458 is more openly emotional and expressive. The 548 is more mental and reserved...like the difference between 4 and 5. Both are intuitive thinkers and tend to be introverted. They are intellectuals that take action when they feel strongly about something. Others are always surprised when the 8 appears as this tritype appears quiet.

A couple of distinctions...The 458 is more emotionally expressive than the 548. The content can be very different. The 458 is more inclined to talk about their feelings about a subject of interest whereas the 548 will be more reserved and speak about tinteresting facts about a subject. The energy of the 458 is focused on the analysis of their feelings first whereas the 548 is focused on the analysis of the information first.

Social increases the need to have the critical information needed to be interesting to others-- to be wise and in the know. Sp increases the focus on the the basics... the resources one must expend to have the information.What will the cost be? All 6 variations of the 458 will avoid being ignorant and speak up for what they believe in. For example, in contrast, the sp548 will be far more reluctant to speak than the sx845 but both fear being inadequate, incompetent and powerless.

The 4-5-8 is the most direct and blunt of all the tritypes, with the exception of perhaps 3-5-8

874 and 854 are very similar and can be difficult to distinguish as 8 has access to both 7 and 5. What is helpful is to look at the differences between 7 and 5. The most critical aspect engagement. The 7 engages and brings a positive outlook to the 84_. The 5 is more internal and brings more introversion and reserve. The 874 is more outgoing and spontaneous. it is the difference between facts vs activities.

seeing your place as in the shadows is exactly how the 458 describes themselves. The 458, 468 and 478 are all truth tellers in their own way. The 468 is the one that is hyper reactive and still seeks a fair authority. The 458 and 478 are their own authorities.

the 548 tritype is the 5 most likely to appear 4-ish.

I think that 458 tritype could be mis-typed as 5, but this is much less likely than a 548 being mis-typed as a 4. It is double reactivity and resultant emotional intensity/volatility of having 4 and 8 together that clashes with the 5, even when 5 is core.

out of 458/459/451 I'd guess that both 459 and 451 would seem more 5-like (or, more accurately, be more likely to be mis-typed as 5) than 458.

The 485 is an intensely original archetype with a passion to explore and find the hidden meaning in all things.

The 845 is more introverted intuition with the attention going inward. It can be darker and is more cynical.

(EIDB 548 tritype discussion thread: The Enneagram Institute Discussion Board - 5 4 8 Tritype ):

[Intense, especially with sx first. Independent, dark, cynical. Most eccentric, creative 5 that tends to swing between detachment and emotionality. Most 4ish 5, especially with four wing. Tough-minded, analytical 4 that is staunchly individualistic. Withdrawn, sensitive, creative 8. "Scholar" archetype if I remember correctly. Wants to know what makes people tick.

Actually, I think this 5 would be more fantasy oriented than information oriented. This would be the dreamy 5.

What I was criticising was the implication that the unique view a 5-4-8 creates is a monolithic system which doesn't change or adjust due to presumably stasis or narcissism or an inability to take criticism. Dynamism, flux and big intellectual shifts are much more likely.
While a 5-4-8 is likely to be an intellectual narcissist, I think any criticism that they are unable to change or adjust their view is the opposite of the case because there is an intense self-criticism as well. Change and flux are constant.

first, because 5-4-8's are unlikely to think in systems (which you've now agreed with), and second, because of their sensitivity to inconsistency, constant self-criticism and tendency to change positions.
I think there is an element of truth in the description though, in that 5-4-8's can be wilfully perverse and too arrogant to accept criticism from others. But they are likely to outwardly repudiate that criticism, and then later modify their views accordingly rather than stubbornly retain their original position.

My experience of this type is of course my only experience of any kind, so hard to be 'objective'. But here goes. I find it a complex, contradictory and often perplexing type to be. The 3 numbers pull against each other, and there is no social element(3, 6, or 9) to smooth the way. This is exacerbated if you have SO as your last stacking. Although all generalisations are suspect (including this one), it is particularly hard to generalise about this tritype. This tritype seems peculiarly subject to flux, and thus can vary greatly, or have many different real selves.
However, dark, eccentric, creative, cynical, sensitive, scholarly are not wide of the mark (although tend to create a caricature if taken too seriously). It's true that we tend to be intensely interested in the psychology of other people, if only because we are at an utter loss to figure out ourselves much of the time. In a way, we are natural scholars but too scholarly, polymathic and restless for universities these days, which reward the careerist specialist.
5-4-8's are subject to rapid oscillations of emotion and thought, equally capable of preternatural strength and weakness of mind at any given moment. One minute an angel, the next a cruel tyrant. A lot of love and a lot of hate. Exquisitely sensitive but all too capable of cruelty and callousness to others. One wants to know, in a totalizing and essential fashion, know poetically but know precisely as well, but never quite gets there.

We are paradox-mongers, live in metaphor, and are always trying to find new ways to say and see things (and hence are often pretentious) - i.e. iconoclasts - but can be as pedantic, systematic and anally analytical as anyone - i.e. using our 5-ness to beat others at their own games when they have underestimated us as loose, kooky or not with it.
5-4-8's have a predisposition to religion and philosophy, especially pessimistic and melancholic strains, but a commensurate disappointment with the lack of answers that satisfy us and a concomitant melancholy.

I would caution against such a romanticized view of this tritype as it may defeat the value of knowing one’s type. I would disagree with a lot of the first things you said about this combination – “many real selves” and “subject to flux”. I find a kind of coherency in that here you’ve got two reactive types (4,8) two rejection (5,8) two withdrawn (4,5) and three very independent, very resistant to anything that originates outside itself, and not particularly concerned with objectivity, consistency, or interested in being accessible in any way. The greatest fluctuation I feel is between feeling incredibly hard and strong to being very self-conscious and inept. Strong and Vulnerable are my two modes, brought out when I feel I am unable to make that leap across the fragments of words and space between myself and someone I have an interest in.

I believe Nietzsche and Gurdjieff were of this tritype, though G may have had 7 instead of 5, but Katherine Fauvre very much agreed with me when I said there was something “Hermetic” about this tri-type. There is a kind of de-construction of present systems and a reconstruction into something that subverts previously-held notions. I like to think of myself as an “ontological terrorist”. Nietzsche is a beautiful illustration of what I see as the gift of this tritype – of staring past the fragility in the conceptions humans, as living and rational beings, hope to cling to and look into something “under”, to poke around in [blocked due to guideline #4 violation], and reveal the beauty within it. Hades operates under a kind of 854 archetypal pattern. There’s the destructive power and energy to produce an impact of 8, along with the “ground-up” construction and innovation of 5 with the creativity and will to rebirth of 4. Of course, that’s only there in the best examples of this tritype, a call the rest of us can only hope to live up to.

There are of course coherent factors - otherwise there wouldn't be a category. However, I still feel that the concept of change over time is very important to 548. I guess this is what I mean by different selves - the many different selves over one's life (which is also true of everyone). That is, think of Heraclitus's saw - you cannot step into the same river twice. Not just because the river has changed, but because you are - that minute to minute one's self is mutating, adapting, contradicting itself. This does not necessarily have to defeat the concept of a core coherent self, but certainly challenges it.

I disagree with your point that 548s are not particularly concerned with objectivity, consistency, or interested in being accessible in any way. While these three values are pretty hard to attain, and difficult to define, they are pretty important to me, at least some of the time - and especially in any discrete intellectual task I want to complete.

I think our tritype is especially gifted with calling it’s fundamental beliefs into constant question. You’ve got 4’s emphasis on self-creation and thus change, the 5’s emphasis on clear perception, innovation, curiosity, and the 8 that confronts and challenges. There is always a readiness to undermine ourselves with an aim at change, but shows us what crap each construct we hold at every stage of growth really is and there is always the correct suspicion that whatever construct we hold in the present is simply a construction.]

5-4-8: more reactive and temperamental, such Fives find it harder to control their emotions than other tritypes. They are basically sensitive, reclusive and ingenious, occasionally indulging in (romantic) day-dreams and fantasies, but once in a while their fierce, visceral side reveals itself explosively and gets to surprise people who don’t know them well. These Fives are usually selfish and whimsical, considering themselves entitled to special treatment which they will sometimes claim aggressively. They are prone to mood swings and rage outbursts.
typical subtypes: sexual, self-preserving, 5w4
similar tritypes: 5-8-4, 4-5-8
flavours: innovative, temperamental, egocentric and intense

5-8-4: original, rebellious, temperamental and highly individualistic and independent, these Fives are can be extremely self-focused and mostly unconcerned with other people’s feelings and wants. They are often inspired and have great vision which they strive to turn into reality – they have a practical side which helps them. Although brilliant and resourceful, others may find it hard to deal with their self-important, narcissistic behavior and their oversensitivity to frustration – their violent reactions can be scary.
typical subtypes: sexual, 5w4, 5w6 (counterphobic wing)
similar tritypes: 5-4-8, 8-5-4
flavours: resourceful, defiant, visionary and reactive

 

[Zarathustra]

Adding two more tritype possibilities into the mix, in light of [MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION] expressing that he thought I might have a 1 fix.

The 1 fix would be replacing the 8 fix in my tritype.

1 actually finished in the top of both my enneacards in the first part of the enneacards test.

I've discussed this with [MENTION=5627]BlackCat[/MENTION], though, and he thinks it's just my enneatype 6 having some similarities to a one.

We didn't discuss it in terms of tritype, though, so the 1 fix here could make some sense.

My dad is an ISTJ 1w2, which might contribute to this as well.

Anyway, here are the descriptions:

136 – The Taskmaster Archetype

136/361/613

The 136/361/613 is an incredibly discerning, focused and responsible type. She said they will be the most inclined to want to live up to a successful image by societal standards and to focus on duty in order to feel valuable. She called it the "true taskmaster" that is inclined to create structure and rules that others in society can follow and to implement them. She said the blindspot is that one can be so overly focused on the rules that they can lose touch with their own values and feelings in deference to what is acceptable or societally defined. This is the type at risk of becoming robotic (along with the 135/351/513). However the 135/351/513 is less relational than the 136/361/613.

I was asked the differences between the 361, the 368 and the 369 tritypes. Since the question is which gut type is dominant. At a glance, it is most helpful to look at activity levels. The 361 is very industrious and busy doing to avoid anxiety, the 1 brings a need to do what is morally correct. The 368 is focused on fighting for justice, the 8 brings a need to overcome and prevail. The 369 is highly adaptable and focused on being in comfortable alignment with others.

I am not 100% sure at this time but for now I am thinking 613 with 6 being very much in charge.
I am a goal-oriented person who doesn't like being controlled by others..I am a friendly person. Sometimes, I come across as too mild/passive..I see it when people think they can control me. They are often surprised when they see I don't let myself get pushed so easily. Being a phobic Six makes it hard for me to truly stand up to someone though often and I end up relying on an "avoidance strategy".
I focus mostly on competence/technical knowledge to get ahead in life so I don't go out of my way to manipulate/mobilize others.

136 tritype; elegant, stoic and resolute with a loyal professional veneer.

(3)-6-1 - The Compliant 3
3-(6)-1 - The Competent 6
3-6-(1) - The Normative 1

Very self critical. Strong ideas about how they should act and have man guidelines that they must follow and cannot deter from.

1-3-6 : this One is usually very hard-working and well-organized. Dutiful and diligent, they also keep an eye on their own interests and like to receive prizes and praise and boost their reputation among their peers. They prefer a leading role and can be excellent managers and leaders: they can get things done as they’re efficient, more pragmatic and also more cautious and calculated. They can sometimes suffer from a bit of paranoia, and worry about their status, finances or health.
usual subtypes: social, 1w9
similar tritypes: 3-1-6, 1-6-3
flavours: hard-working, pragmatic, efficient and cautious

1-6-3 : conscientious, responsible, cautious and efficient, these Ones are very practical and productive. They’re down-to-earth, realistic and typically good managers of people and resources. They’re also quite good at predicting and avoiding possible pit-falls and are talented trouble-shooters: they’re preventive and like to play it safe. Want their hard-work and thoroughness praised and (financially) rewarded, and sometimes they might act arrogantly and engage in self-praising when they feel unappreciated.
usual subtypes: social, self-preserving, 1w2
similar tritypes: 1-3-6, 6-1-3
flavours: efficient, practical, cautious and hard-working

136 Compliance meets Harmony and meets Competence.

The 136 is focused on the rules.... it is an important point but they really, really task and are always busy.

631--A 6 with a strong superego. Lots of issues regarding personal competency. At lower health, the most likely of the 6s to respond negatively and reactively to pressure from others, since there is already a nearly unbearable pressure from within.
--The first impression I get from this tritype is a strong image orientation. There's a constant need to impress others and to have a positive place in the social sphere. I see a need for perfection in all things, partly out of ego and partly out of duty. There's strong loyalty to causes, but more so community ones and not personal ones. But this is a very hands-on tritype who will work to achieve what (s)he wants to achieve. I see less manipulation here than the 3 might otherwise indicate, and more focus and drive.
--That doesn't ring true for me ( I have this tritype ). Duty to those worthy of it, yes, but I don't find "societal standards" to be high standards at all, or worth emulating in the slightest. I find that most of "society" sorely disappoints, the lowest common denominator rules. I also have a deep distrust for the public in general.

So, the 136, 137 and 126 would most focus on preparing, being busy and responsible. The 1 and 6 feel they must be responsible, the 3s must do, achieve, and perform, the 4s must accomplish, the 8s must executing and so on.

I have found the 136 needs to be busy to avoid feelings of anxiety …136s can enjoy needle point, baking, cleaning, organizing and/or reading to keep the anxiety at bay.

[by timeless:] 6-1-3. That means they have the core desires of a 6, they interact with the world like a 1 and they like to be seen like a 3 would like to be seen. Breaking that down:
Type 6 is security-oriented, and can alternate between serious doubt and serious loyalty. They tend to be pretty rule-focused right off the bat (as they are a superego type) but then add 1 onto the mix and, like that tri-type description gives you, they can get fixated on constructing appropriate rules. Type 1 is usually critical of themselves and others, which is the component that enables a Type 6 to channel their desire for a workable rule set into the desire to create a workable rule set. Type 3, the image type in this triad, likes to be seen as successful and effective. You can see how adding 6, 1 and 3 together would create a personality type that's dedicated toward seeking out the best rule set.

613 The Taskmaster. Discerning and focused 6. This is the most industrious 6. Eager beavers and highly responsible, they are always busy and can be mistaken for 3s. Fear is managed by achieving. They tend to feel the burden of obligation. They focus on duty and family.

The core fears are of fear itself, danger, being alone, cowardice, submitting, deviance, uncertainty, being targeted, chaos, being wrong, bad, evil, angry, inappropriate, corruptible, condemned, failure, being incapable, or unable to do, inefficient, immutable, and inconsequential.

I think 613 ("The Taskmaster") is less likely.

146 – The Philosopher Archetype

146
If you are a 146, you are diligent, intuitive, and inquisitive. You want to be ethical, original and certain. Morally focused, you have strong emotions and are inclined to voice your feelings and intuitions. You care deeply and want to help others improve the expectations they have of themselves.

Your life mission is to find truth and help others understand what has intrinsic value. A true philosopher, you are happiest when you can use your intuition to help others find meaning.

You can be so identified with what you perceive is the morally correct way of being that you can come across as overly prudish, rigid and inflexible.

146s of all core types tend to be poised and prudent, almost as though they were consulting with their inner critic to have each word screened before it passes their lips. When you're conversing with them, there's always a third party present: the judge. It can seem like they're always standing at attention. They're also oddly picky about minutiae in most (if not all) areas of life, almost as though they were looking for little things to be picky about.
This is very true of the 146s I know. They can be so moralistic. The so/sp is even more prudent. I think Katherine says they are really hard on themselves. They are the most critical of the tritype combinations. They expect a lot from themselves and others. I feel for them.

461: Inquisitive and discerning 4. Most compliant and rule-oriented 4. 6ish. Tends to run high anxiety especially if self-preserving.

David Fauvre also said that 461's have a bit of a 'bite' to them.

The 486 is much more assertive that the 416. The 416, 459 and 469 all struggle with painful self-consciousness and inhibition. The 461 tends to being very critical of themselves to avoid being criticized. This tritype is very particular. The 416 hesitates and the 486 impulsively reacts. A perceived threat to the primary instinct triggers the tritype.

Any combination that has a 6 runs anxiety. Any tritype that has self-pres as the dominant instinct is motivated by anxiety. The tritypes that tend to run high anxiety are the 614 and 694... and then 629 and 639.

(4)-6-1 - The Compliant 4
4-(6)-1 - The Idealistic 6
4-6-(1) - The Reactive 1

This type is somewhat neurotic. Perfectionistic. May push themselves beyond their physical capability. At the same time they tend to believe themselves to be better than most.

641, and he's a perennial hothead who does a fair bit of ranting

I'd been assuming I was a 4-6-9, but I didn't relate to hardly any of the 9 keywords. Am I calm? Patient? No way! I'm the total opposite. To my surprise, I related more to the 1 and even the 8 keywords. My sheet of self-description had a lot of 9y things on it, but I really don't feel like a 9. We all had a bit of trouble figuring it out for me because of that, but we settled on 4-6-1, because I relate so much to the 'self-controlled' and all that, have an extremely loud superego, and am always worrying about whether I'm doing the right thing. And it really explains so much. Most of why I act so much like a 9 is because my superego is constantly pressuring me to. You wouldn't think that a 4-6-9 would be told so constantly that I 'don't know how to relax.' As a kid, I wasn't 9ish at all. I acted like a 4, 6 or 1 all the time. I have a strong compliant, conventional and 'obey the rules' streak. My 6 has got to be almost purely phobic because I don't react like a 6, although I have anxiety and doubt to boot (I joke about being a 'phobic 4' sometimes). I've often felt like I was a superego type and a really strong frustration type, and that explains it. That explains why I feel so much like I'm trapped in a cage and beating my wings against the bars, which is a feeling my type and stacking and wing didn't seem to fully explain. No wonder I didn't see much in trifix theory before--I was assigning myself the wrong one. It was a huge surprise. And god, it's a relief.

1-4-6: Fear of desperateness, dullness and doubt. Tendency to seek things they will accept, poignance and assurance.

When the 4 and 6 are in the tritype there is more negativity as a strategy to prevent making a mistake that will bring shame, blame and criticism. This is most true of the 461 and then 468 and then the 469.

1-4-6 : these Ones are quite imaginative, creative and a bit melancholic. They are extreme perfectionists and can easily feel discouraged and let down by the imperfect world around. They don’t easily trust others and tend to avoid society, but at the same time they crave being loved and belonging. They also have a bit of a temper so their anger can show especially when feeling misunderstood. They tend to support the underdog and they can have a passionate, belligerent streak to them.
usual subtypes: sexual, social, 1w2
similar tritypes: 1-6-4, 4-1-6
flavours: imaginative, passionate, suspicious and sensitive

1-6-4 : very dutiful and faithful but also prone to angry reactions and, rarely, depression bouts in isolation. This is a more anxious One that finds it harder to hide his anger and his concern with the loyalty and reliability of those around. Can experience strong like/dislike feelings about people and situations and is more suspicious and prejudiced towards newcomers and different groups. They are typically traditionalists, but will at times go against tradition in a rather rebellious way, especially when insecure.
typical subtypes: sexual, social 1w2
similar tritypes: 6-1-4, 1-4-6
flavours: faithful, anxious, discriminating and sometimes defiant

(from InsightfulInnovations [146] philosophy is centered around the belief that people should be honest, hard-working, tasteful and well…strive for perfection. The Six in his tritype exacerbates the appearance of phobias. Jeff [Lewis] is likely the 164 tritype which heightens his emotional reactivity (both Fours and Sixes are reactive types) and creates a more persnickety personality style. As a One, Jeff channels his persnickety nature into keeping extreme order, efficiency and practicality in his work and home life. However, with the Four thrown in he ends up behaving a bit like a frustrated diva when things aren’t done to his specifications.

The following was excerpted from Katherine Fauvre’s seminal work on tritype:
146: The Philosopher
Archetype: They are “diligent, intuitive, and inquisitive. You want to be ethical, original and certain. Morally focused, you have strong emotions and are inclined to voice your feelings and intuitions. You care deeply and want to help others improve their lives and the expectations they have of themselves.”
Core Triggers: Feeling wrong, inadequate and/or uncertain.
Core Fears: The core fears are of being wrong, bad, evil, angry, inappropriate, unqualified, corruptible, nonredeemable, condemned, being inadequate, emotionally cut off, mundane, ordinary, commonplace, being abandoned, fear itself, danger, being alone, cowardice, submitting, and deviance, uncertainty, targeted, and chaos.
Blind Spot: The blind spot is that they can be so identified with what they perceive is the morally correct way of being that they can come across as overly prudish, rigid and inflexible. When they feel insecure, they can be overly critical of themselves and others and appear to be a snob.
Growing Edge: The growing edge is to recognize that authenticity is not cultivated. Their inclination is to create a sense of self around an identity of being informed and educated. Sophistry is a mimic of being. True awareness comes from being present to the moment rather than developing an image of being ‘in the know’.

614
The Philosopher. Discerning and intuitive 6. This is the most particular 6. This 6 is very creative especially with the 7 wing. They can be torn between the need for meaning and need to be dutiful and responsible. This 6 is often drawn to teaching.

The core fears are of fear itself, danger, being alone, cowardice, submitting, deviance, uncertainty, being targeted, chaos, being wrong, bad, evil, angry, inappropriate, unqualified, corruptible, condemned, being inadequate, emotionally cut off, ordinary, commonplace, and being abandoned.

Anxiety and worry increase with the 1 and doubt and uncertainty with the 9. Examine your motivations rather than your behaviors. This is especially difficult for the 6, but more so for the 649 as all 3 types tend to doubt as a defense strategy. This is the Tritype that is most reluctant to take a stand for their "own" opinion until they are angry. The 641 has all 3 types that fear making a mistake and being at risk for having done so. They tend to be more likely to show frustration and to correct and instruct others ( especially for the so 641).

your descriptions sound more like sp1 in the gut. As a sp6 you have a natural iine of connection to sp9. Research has shown that you move to your wings and lines of connection with the same dominant instinct running the show. When your sp6 moves to sp9 and sp3 it is momentary and adding to you sp6. When you shift in your tritype your sp6 shifts to the 1 for solutions and runs all permutations of the 1 driven by the needs and concerns of the self-pres. The confusion may be that sp1 worries much like a 6 but the focus is on improving. So your instinct may have made it more difficult to land on the 614. Take your time. The 694 is much more hidden and inhibited. The 641 is focused on the perfecting and refining...getting it right.

Both 4s and 6s can be emotional. The questions is what are you emotional about? In terms of difficult behaviors...
6s identify a source to prove
4s identify a source to impress
641 particular, fussy

Compliance (1-6) meets frustration (1-4) meets intensity (4-6). Very anxiety-prone combination ("stressure"). High-strung perfectionists who strongly value the "correct" way of doing things. On the high side, they often make excellent teachers of the arts or anything they're passionate about.

I see the fix as somewhat harmonious. Six and Four share reactivity. Six and One share compliance. Four and One share DOI/DOD (direction of integration and disintegration). Regarding respective (emotional) triadic roles, One represents repression, Four introversion, and Six ambiversion/ambivalence. If anything, I think this trifix would result in a kind of over-obedience and lack of spontaneity/open-endedness. A less "extraverted" gestalt

146 - There is also a "zeal" for action for this type, but it will realize much earlier if what they're doing has no real meaning and will look for something else. They still might feel that they've "sold out" just to ensure security and doing the "right" thing. They need to trust what they intuitively sense and act accordingly, and learn to do this with others, i.e. they must trust what others feel is right for themselves and gives these people room to do that despite the very strong intuitions of this tritype.

I think 614 ("The Philosopher") is more likely.

I'd probably go with something like 684=683>614>613>584=583.

6w5>8w?>3w4 or 4w3 would seem to make a lot of sense.

 

[RaptorWizard]

I think the real Zarathustra or Zoroaster who founded Zoroastrianism was INFJ 4w5, the wise sage, an Ni dominant type just like INTJ!

 

[yenom]

8w9