View Poll Results: What enneagram type am I? (please only vote if you've read the whole thread... thx)

Voters
19. You may not vote on this poll
• 1w9

2 10.53%
• 1w2

0 0%
• 2w1

0 0%
• 2w3

0 0%
• 3w2

0 0%
• 3w4

0 0%
• 4w3

0 0%
• 4w5

0 0%
• 5w4

1 5.26%
• 5w6

5 26.32%
• 6w5

8 42.11%
• 6w7

0 0%
• 7w6

0 0%
• 7w8

0 0%
• 8w7

2 10.53%
• 8w9

0 0%
• 9w8

0 0%
• 9w1

1 5.26%

1. Discovered!

I've obviously been having some difficulty figuring out my enneagram type, but I think I finally got it!

The exercise over in this thread has actually been the most useful method thus far... (reading descriptions of different types is always the best method, imo...)

Anyway, to recap:

I started off thinking I was an 8w9; then someone suggested that I'm actually a counterphobic 6w5; now, based off these readings, I think I may actually be an enneagram 5 (which I have largely ignored til now), who identified with 8 because its my integration point; the level descriptions of 5s and 8s are what I identify with most (5>8), while the level descriptions of a 6 just don't really feel like me...

Also, enneagram 5 is the first type in which I feel like either wing could accurately describe me; 5w4 or 5w6: I could probably go either way (I might even be leaning more towards 5w4)...

If I were a 5w6, I presume my integration point would be an 8w9 (is this right? do you also integrate into an "integration wing", based on the integration point of your normal wing?), which would create an interesting symmetry with what I first thought I was...

Here's my post from that other thread:

Originally Posted by Zarathustra
I've actually been having difficulty identifying my enneagram type, but I think, by doing this exercise, I've now got it!

Type Five—More Depth by Level
Healthy Levels
Level 1(At Their Best): Become visionaries, broadly comprehending the world while penetrating it profoundly. Open-minded, take things in whole, in their true context. Make pioneering discoveries and find entirely new ways of doing and perceiving things.

Level 2: Observe everything with extraordinary perceptiveness and insight. Most mentally alert, curious, searching intelligence: nothing escapes their notice. Foresight and prediction. Able to concentrate: become engrossed in what has caught their attention.

Level 3: Attain skillful mastery of whatever interests them. Excited by knowledge: often become expert in some field. Innovative and inventive, producing extremely valuable, original works. Highly independent, idiosyncratic, and whimsical.

Average Levels
Level 4: Begin conceptualizing and fine-tuning everything before acting—working things out in their minds: model building, preparing, practicing, and gathering more resources. Studious, acquiring technique. Become specialized, and often "intellectual," often challenging accepted ways of doing things.

Level 5: Increasingly detached as they become involved with complicated ideas or imaginary worlds. Become preoccupied with their visions and interpretations rather than reality. Are fascinated by off-beat, esoteric subjects, even those involving dark and disturbing elements. Detached from the practical world, a "disembodied mind," although high-strung and intense.

Level 6: Begin to take an antagonistic stance toward anything which would interfere with their inner world and personal vision. Become provocative and abrasive, with intentionally extreme and radical views. Cynical and argumentative.

Unhealthy Levels
Level 7: Become reclusive and isolated from reality, eccentric and nihilistic. Highly unstable and fearful of aggressions: they reject and repulse others and all social attachments.

Level 8: Get obsessed yet frightened by their threatening ideas, becoming horrified, delirious, and prey to gross distortions and phobias.

Level 9: Seeking oblivion, they may commit suicide or have a psychotic break with reality. Deranged, explosively self-destructive, with schizophrenic overtones. Generally corresponds to the Schizoid Avoidant and Schizotypal personality disorders.
I identify most strongly with the bolded.

In my good days, I'm some combination of 1-3 (2 resonates most strongly); the goal of my life is to be at 1. (bolded only)

In my bad periods, when life is not going as well, I'm more in the 4-5 area; I stop acting, and start "preparing". (bolded and underlined)

I went through a period in college when I would dip into 6-8. When I almost wrote my honors thesis on the inevitability of the reversal in the slave-master dialectic between mankind and technology, I was at about an 8. If I'd let myself get to 9, I probably woulda been like that guy who wrote that 2,000-page manifesto and shot himself on Harvard Yard... (underlined only)

At my worst, nowadays, I might fall into a 6, but that is very rare, if it even happens at all.

Type Six—More Depth by Level
Healthy Levels
Level 1 (At Their Best): Become self-affirming, trusting of self and others, independent yet symbiotically interdependent and cooperative as an equal. Belief in self leads to true courage, positive thinking, leadership, and rich self-expression.

Level 2: Able to elicit strong emotional responses from others: very appealing, endearing, lovable, affectionate. Trust important: bonding with others, forming permanent relationships and alliances.

Level 3: Dedicated to individuals and movements in which they deeply believe. Community builders: responsible, reliable, trustworthy. Hard-working and persevering, sacrificing for others, they create stability and security in their world, bringing a cooperative spirit.

Average Levels
Level 4: Start investing their time and energy into whatever they believe will be safe and stable. Organizing and structuring, they look to alliances and authorities for security and continuity. Constantly vigilant, anticipating problems.

Level 5: To resist having more demands made on them, they react against others passive-aggressively. Become evasive, indecisive, cautious, procrastinating, and ambivalent. Are highly reactive, anxious, and negative, giving contradictory, "mixed signals." Internal confusion makes them react unpredictably.

Level 6: To compensate for insecurities, they become sarcastic and belligerent, blaming others for their problems, taking a tough stance toward "outsiders." Highly reactive and defensive, dividing people into friends and enemies, while looking for threats to their own security. Authoritarian while fearful of authority, highly suspicious, yet, conspiratorial, and fear-instilling to silence their own fears.

Unhealthy Levels
Level 7: Fearing that they have ruined their security, they become panicky, volatile, and self-disparaging with acute inferiority feelings. Seeing themselves as defenseless, they seek out a stronger authority or belief to resolve all problems. Highly divisive, disparaging and berating others

Level 8: Feeling persecuted, that others are "out to get them," they lash-out and act irrationally, bringing about what they fear. Fanaticism, violence.

Level 9: Hysterical, and seeking to escape punishment, they become self-destructive and suicidal. Alcoholism, drug overdoses, "skid row," self-abasing behavior. Generally corresponds to the Passive-Aggressive and Paranoid personality disorders.
These really just don't resonate with me.

Thanks to this, I really don't think I'm a 6...

Type Eight—More Depth by Level
Healthy Levels
Level 1 (At Their Best): Become self-restrained and magnanimous, merciful and forbearing, mastering self through their self-surrender to a higher authority. Courageous, willing to put self in serious jeopardy to achieve their vision and have a lasting influence. May achieve true heroism and historical greatness.

Level 2: Self-assertive, self-confident, and strong: have learned to stand up for what they need and want. A resourceful, "can do" attitude and passionate inner drive.

Level 3: Decisive, authoritative, and commanding: the natural leader others look up to. Take initiative, make things happen: champion people, provider, protective, and honorable, carrying others with their strength.

Average Levels
Level 4: Self-sufficiency, financial independence, and having enough resources are important concerns: become enterprising, pragmatic, "rugged individualists," wheeler-dealers. Risk-taking, hardworking, denying own emotional needs.

Level 5: Begin to dominate their environment, including others: want to feel that others are behind them, supporting their efforts. Swaggering, boastful, forceful, and expansive: the "boss" whose word is law. Proud, egocentric, want to impose their will and vision on everything, not seeing others as equals or treating them with respect.

Level 6: Become highly combative and intimidating to get their way: confrontational, belligerent, creating adversarial relationships. Everything a test of wills, and they will not back down. Use threats and reprisals to get obedience from others, to keep others off balance and insecure. However, unjust treatment makes others fear and resent them, possibly also band together against them.

Unhealthy Levels
Level 7: Defying any attempt to control them, become completely ruthless, dictatorial, "might makes right." The criminal and outlaw, renegade, and con-artist. Hard-hearted, immoral and potentially violent.

Level 8: Develop delusional ideas about their power, invincibility, and ability to prevail: megalomania, feeling omnipotent, invulnerable. Recklessly over-extending self.

Level 9: If they get in danger, they may brutally destroy everything that has not conformed to their will rather than surrender to anyone else. Vengeful, barbaric, murderous. Sociopathic tendencies. Generally corresponds to the Antisocial Personality Disorder.
I can appreciate a lot of what's in here, but it doesn't resonate as much as the enneagram 5 level descriptions do...

When I read these, I think about my ENTJ side, which I can employ, but which is not my "basal" personality; they also resemble me when I'm put in situations where I must be employing this ENTJ side, like at my job.

I would say I identify most with levels 1-4, and that I can see some of levels 5-9 in me (mostly 5 and 6, with maybe the tiniest smidgen of 7 and 8), but I rarely, if ever, engage in those, because, if I were ever tempted to, I would consciously catch myself doing so, and tell myself to snap the fuck out of it cuz I'm acting like a dickhead...

As such, I think that, because I identify most with 8s when they are acting healthily, 8 is probably my integration point. Interestingly enough, as such, my enneagram integration would seem to be correlated with my effective balancing of introversion and extroversion in MBTI.
I feel like this all just finally clicked!

2. Btw, if you have any comments or relevant reading materials (about 5w4s, 5w6s, 5w4s vs 5w6s, integrating into 8, integrating into 8w7, integrating into 8w9, etc.), they are welcome!

3. This has a pretty good stuff on wings and integrations:

http://www.thechangeworks.com/ennpri...#anchor1998933

and this:
http://personalitycafe.com/type-5-fo...ive-wings.html

Instincts
http://personalitycafe.com/type-5-fo...-subtypes.html

http://personalitycafe.com/type-5-fo...instincts.html

General profile
http://personalitycafe.com/type-5-fo...tml#post204089

If you want to get into the tangled mess of tritypes:
http://personalitycafe.com/type-5-fo...-tritypes.html

A good book to read is "Discovering the Enneagram : an ancient tool for a new spiritual journey" by Richard Rohr.

This is a great page that has a good general profile, instinct description, detailed level descriptions, integrations, etc:

I like these descriptions too:

Originally Posted by Understanding the Enneagram: The Practical Guide to Personality Types
Type Five identifies primarily with the Thinking Center. In the average range, however, Thinking begins to mix with the Feeling Center, and later in the unhealthy range, it also imbalances the Moving-Instinctive Center.

Even healthy Fives are identified with the mind ('I think, therefore I am'), and begin to identify with their thoughts instead of with the source and background of their thought processes. Their sense of themselves is connected with maintaining a certain mental intensity and with having insights into the nature of things. But Fives can become compulsive about their thinking as a way of compensating for the blockage of the essential qualities of the Thinking Center – especially of inner guidance and quiet mind.

As Fives move into the average Levels, thinking begins to scramble with feelings. Feelings add an emotional charge to Fives' thoughts, making their thoughts feel more alive and real. Identification with ideas, fantasies, and other mental activity becomes more intense and consuming. Thus, average Fives start to live in a reality of their own creation – which is more real to them than their actual lives. As one Five remarked, 'I don't need to have a relationship. I can already map the whole thing out in my head, I know what's going to happen.' This also leads to the fascination with games, computers, and the alternate realities and mental models.

At the same time, the emotional energy becomes so caught in intensifying a Five's mental activity that it becomes unavailable for its own natural functions. In other words, feelings in not available for feelings. If this trend continues, average Fives become more estranged from their sense of identity and value, and increasingly unable to connect emotionally with others. Deeply identified Fives may not even recognize the need for these things.

In the unhealthy range, the emotionally charged thinking intensifies even further and the Moving-Instinctive Center also becomes imbalanced. The Fives' intense inner world has become so much the dominant reality that they lose awareness of even their basic physical needs: their eating is irregular and unhealthful, their sleep patterns are disturbed, and their hygiene and level of basic comforts are highly limited or virtually nonexistent. They become extremely isolated, eccentric, unkempt, and cut off from human contact, ultimately losing the ability to take care of themselves. Extremely unhealthy Fives are also prone to suicide, which is a complete negation of the life instinct, a total overriding of this Center by the deranged mind.

In the opposite direction, Fives develop by learning to discriminate thoughts from feelings – both by recognizing their feelings as they occur, and by learning to observe their thoughts rather than identifying with them. They are able to do this by learning to include their Moving-Instinctive Center, that is, by becoming more grounded in their body and in physical reality. As they become more present and less identified with their thoughts, Fives begin to notice that pure awareness – the quiet mind – can take in their thoughts as well as their feelings, instincts, and all aspects of their inner and outer environment. Gradually, their identification shifts from an attachment to their ideas and thinking processes to the more spacious quality of the quiet mind.

Originally Posted by Personality Types: Using the Enneagram for Self-Discovery by Don Richard Riso
An Overview of the Five (pg 135)

The connection between genius and madness has long been debated. These two states are really poles apart, the opposite ends of the personality spectrum. The genius is someone who fuses knowledge with insight into the nature of the world, someone who has the ability to see things with utter clarity and awe-inspiring comprehension. What separates the genius from the madman is that the genius, in addition to extraordinary insights, has the ability to see them correctly, within their context. The genius perceives patterns which are actually present - whereas the madman imposes patterns, projecting an erroneous idea onto every circumstance. The genius may sometimes seem to be out of touch with reality, but only because he or she operates at a more profound level. The madman, however, is truly out of touch with reality having nothing but delusions to substitute for it.

The Five is the personality type which most exemplifies these extremes. In the Five we see the genius and the madman, the intellectual and the scholar, the mildly eccentric crackpot and the deeply disturbed delusional paranoid. To understand how these widely diverse states are part of the same personality type is to understand the Five.

The Major Subtypes of the Five (pgs 158-160)

The Five with a Four-Wing

The traits of the Five and those of the four-wing are often in conflict with each other: fives are cerebral, holding experience at arm's length, while fours internalize everything to intensify their feelings. Despite these differences - or because of them - these two personality types make one of the richest subtypes, combining possibilities for outstanding artistic as well as intellectual achievement.

Noteworthy examples of this subtype include albert Einstein, D.H. Lawrence, Friedrich Nietzsche, Oriana Fallaci, Hannah Arendt, Emily Dickinson, Italo Calvino, Jean-Paul Sartre, Jacob Bronowski, Glenn Gould, Peter Serkin, Klaus Tennstedt, Elvis Costello, and Stanley Kubrick.

In healthy people of this subtype, we find the union of intuition and knowledge, sensitivity and insight, aesthetic appreciation and intellectual endowments. This subtype is particularly aware of - and on the outlook for - the beautiful in the mathematical formula, for example. For this subtype, beauty is one of the indications of truth because the order which beauty represents is a confirmation of the objective rightness of an idea. One of the foremost strengths of healthy Fives with a Four-wing lies precisely in their intuition, since intuition helps them uncover areas of knowledge where their conscious thoughts have not yet ventured. For them, inspiration is the handmaiden of discovery. Fives with a Four-wing are also more humanistic, artistic, personal, and emotional than the other subtype.

In average persons of this subtype, there can be an off-putting detachment from the environment both because they are involved in their thoughts and because they are more introverted and emotionally self-absorbed. Analytic powers may be used to keep people at arm's length rather than to understand them more deeply. Emotionally delicate, people of this subtype are moody and hypersensitive to criticism, particularly regarding the value of their work or ideas, since this impinges directly on self-esteem. Both component types tend to withdraw from people and be reclusive. Since Five is the basic type, persons of this subtype are intense, able to concentrate on their work and their ideas. But to the degree that the Four-wing is operative, they also feel emotional vulnerable, which hinders their ability to work. One typical solution is to find emotional solace in various forms of self-indulgence - in alcohol, drugs or sexual escapades.

Unhealthy persons of this subtype may fall prey to debilitating depressions yet be disturbed by aggressive impulses. Envy of others mixes with regret that it must be so. Intellectual conflicts make their emotional lives seem hopeless, while their emotional conflicts make intellectual work difficult to sustain. Moreover, if this subtype becomes neurotic, it is one of the most alienated of all the personality types: profoundly hopeless, nihilistic, self-inhibiting, isolated from others, and full of self-hatred. Suicide is a real possibility.

Five with a Six-Wing

The traits of the Five and those of the Six-wing reinforce each other, combining to produce one of the most difficult of the personality types to contact intimately or to sustain a relationship with. Persons of this subtype have problems trusting others both because they are essentially Fives and because the Six-wig reinforces anxiety, making any kind of risk taking in relationships difficult. Hence, their interpersonal relations are erratic and, in general, are not an important part of their lives. Noteworthy examples of this subtype include Sigmund Freud, Simone Weil, James Joyce, Charles Darwin, Karl Marx, B. F. Skinner, Isaac Asimov, Ezra Pound, and Stephen Hawking.

Healthy people of this subtype are loyal and committed to their families and beliefs. They are extraordinarily hard workers, caring little for their own comfort and much more for their work and the fulfillment of their duties. In them we find an intellectual playfulness, a good sense of humor, as well as other attractive, lovable qualities. If others have been tested and permitted to come closer, they discover that people of this subtype have a deep capacity for friendship and commitment. There is also an endearing element in their desire to be accepted by others, and even if they are sometimes socially clumsy, others cannot help but be touched by their eagerness to reach out to people.

However, average persons of this subtype generally have problems with relationships. They do not seem to know what to do with their feelings,much less how to express them directly. Hence we find an insensitivity to their own feelings and emotional needs, as well as to the feelings and emotional needs of others. They have no awareness about how they communicate themselves to others. (They are the classical intellectual nerd, the socially inept oddball.) They are totally wrapped up with intellectual pursuits and live completely in their minds, immersing themselves in their work to the exclusion of everything else. When interpersonal conflicts arise, average Fives with a Six-wing avoid resolving problems by burying themselves even more deeply in their intellectual work and by employing passive-aggressive techniques, putting off people and problems rather than dealing with them directly. They can be rebellious and argumentative for no apparent reason, although something may have touched off unconscious emotional associations.

Neurotics of this subtype have a tendency to be suspicious of others and extremely fearful of intimacy of any sort. The isolation and paranoia we see in unhealthy Fives are reinforced by the Six-wing's suspicion, inferiority feelings, and conviction of being persecuted. We also find the tendency to overreact, and hence to act irrationally and in masochistic, self-defeating ways.

4. Awesome!

Thanks for the info, FJ!

5. Yes, Zarathustra I thought you were a 5 also. Not surpised that you finally end with that diagnostic, lol. You said that you were a 6w5 Sx/So but my impresson was taht you were more a probably a 5w6 Sx/So. Nietzche was a 5 also BTW.

Maybe you are a Sexual 5? Here are some examples from the four differents variants, do you relate on this?

Thanks.

7. 5w4 INTJ

Hi Zarathustra

I am new to this forum.

However I was searching for some answers and stumbled into your thread - I was in a similar fix like you did.

One of my friend who is very much into Enneagram read me as a Type 5, but I couldn't believe him and I spent one whole year trying to figure out what I am by taking different test and reading numerous books.

I tend to fall under both wings, heavy 6 and heavy 4, especially after reading the descriptions in http://www.thechangeworks.com/ennpri...#anchor1998933.

Of any amount of test I do, the result is almost always 6w5 or 4w5. I also experience Type 8 or occasionally Type 7. When I read 'The Wisdom of Enneagram', the author stated the possibility when some people lean on their dominant wing over a long period of time, they will misidentify themselves easily.

And I know I have both a 6' and a 4', yet I cannot identify myself with a 3 or a 7 wing.

As for MBTI trait, I was always an INFP who wanted to become ENTP. Over the years, I have flucuated between INFP - INTP - INTJ - INFJ - ENFP.

If it is not for enneagram, and my recent rediscovery that I am more of a Type 5 than a 6' or a 4', that I also came to realise that I am more of a INTJ than anything else. Even Socionics result points me towards INTx

8. Originally Posted by Chloe
Leave wings aside for a while, just focus on 8 vs. 6.
I dont really know but i've been explained that you can tell them apart by : attacts weaker (6), or only attacts stronger (8) and protects the weak. That's not very nice example because nobody wants to look themselves as chicken who would attack weaker.
now remembered; this info is from discussion i had with enneagram teacher about school bullies: she said it's unlikely he's an 8, bc 8s protect weak people. she said he's 6 most likely
:/
this kind of makes sense, but I don't think it's always the case. my best friend is an 8w7 and used to try to beat up the bullies (a couple of times he even set up traps for them LOL) but I've known cp 6s who've done the same thing.

9. 5w6 Sx/So. I think it is fixed.

10. Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche
5w6 Sx/So. I think it is fixed.
Yeah, I (pretty much) agree.

Slight chances of 6w5 or 8, but 5w6 sx/so makes most sense.

Even @BlackCat, who has thought 6w5, before he knew my instinctual variant, said, "Well, I guess you could be 5w6, if you were sx/so."

And, as I said to you before, Speedy, I've pretty much always thought I was sx/so, and our conversation about it solidified that conviction.

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