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Extroversion and Introversion

rav3n

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The E/I dichotomy continues to confound. For some reason it eats at me, similar to a sore tooth. Can't seem to let it go.

When viewing cognitive processes in the order of Te, Ni, Se, Fi, type resonates true. When reviewing extroversion vs. introversion, everything kind of falls apart.

How many extroverts are similar where some people fuel but others drain? Mood also impacts on the fueling and draining process. Solitude can also fuel or drain. I sit so much on the border between the two.

Is it possible that I'm an INTJ? But the order of the cognitive processes don't resonate true, particularly the inferior process of Se. I'm fine with Se. It's actually pretty close to Ni.

When it comes to work, positively eNTJ. Socially, not so much. Pursuit of friendships and relationships aren't my thing. But I'm open to friendships. Currently, relationships are in a no-fly zone.

ESTJ also occurred to me but haven't scored once as such, on any online test. And more often than not, there's a rejection of traditionalism but I will work within the framework of traditionalism, if it's the most efficient means to goals fruition.

ISTJ, not a chance.

Also, not a P. Too conclusive.

Okay, I'm thinking out loud so forgive the mess. How very extroverted. :shock:
 

Robopop

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I think alot of the traditional traits attached to extroversion are very Fe(friendly, outgoing, loves being around people) or Se. If you are a Te dom "people" might not be your main concern, more like organization of processes and external effciency.
 

rav3n

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Thanks for your suggestions, Robopop. Te dom for sure. It's pretty much through the roof. I guess it bothers me since as you say, the traditional definition of extraversion is people oriented where as someone with a need to understand the conceptual whole, people don't factor as highly.

It's not that I don't care about people, since I care about my friends a lot, but that I don't need to be with them all or even much of the time. One of my RL friends is also an ENTJ. She's a raging extrovert who's always with people. An old boss is also an ENTJ. His social network is comprised of people who can do something for him. His socialisation is agenda-forward. I'm not like either one when it comes to people.

When observing other ENTJs on TypeC, some lean towards traditional introversion as well. But it might be a confirmation biased observation since raging extroverts wouldn't spend much time on an online forum or maybe even mistyping, whether them, myself or both.
 

Eric B

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Extroversion is "expressiveness", which only indicates one tends to be quick to approach people. The other scale is responsiveness, which tells whether the person is ultimately focused on people, or on tasks instead. ETJ's are expressive to people, but focused more on task (both T and J tend more towards task).
 

Lady_X

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Its totally confusing when your're low on the extraversion scale. Most people would likely type me as an introvert.
 

Max

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I can definitely relate to what you've described. I think about it all the time myself.
 

rav3n

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Thanks for your input Eric, Lady X and Max.

Eric, I don't socially approach people very often but am responsive when approached most of the time. In eNTJ work mode, no problems approaching, no shyness, nothing. Civility and approachability is important when it comes to work communications. So does that make me a halfer, straddling the line? Confusing.

Lady X and Max. Why does it frustrate you? Because you want to be one or the other or because something doesn't resonate true?
 

KDude

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Some people fuel me and some drain me too (I'd say I instantly like to stay away from crowds though.). I've always been one to break some silence with people though, to try to make friends sometimes, let my ideas (or judgements) be known when decisions need to be made. I don't identify though with the description that introverts (especially Fi doms) deliberate, hold back, or like to be agreeable/low key.

Not that this helps, but it seems the ENFPs and ISFPs might be the types that defy their own introversion/extroversion the most.
 

Max

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It's pretty much exactly what Robopop said. The descriptions of extroversion given by tests and whatnot are not always catered exactly towards Te, which is what a __TJ type uses primarily. I'm pretty sure it's not rare with those types to wonder how extroverted you really are. I've even mistyped myself in the past as ISTJ.
 

Eric B

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Eric, I don't socially approach people very often but am responsive when approached most of the time. In eNTJ work mode, no problems approaching, no shyness, nothing. Civility and approachability is important when it comes to work communications. So does that make me a halfer, straddling the line? Confusing.

And you said in the OP "Pursuit of friendships and relationships aren't my thing. But I'm open to friendships. Currently, relationships are in a no-fly zone."

I would think in this case, the "approach" that counts in expressiveness would be in your "work mode". The fact that you express then but not as much for friendships is clear task focus.
Responsiveness is based on the criteria you have for interaction. So in work mode, you express to people, but outside of that, they have to meet more of a criteria. Then, "no fly zone" would also indicate need for a criteria, if I'm understanding that correctly. So even if you allow people to approach you, I'm sure they still have to meet a criteria for any further interaction.
 

Lady_X

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hmm...i'm not sure that it actually does frustrate me but i don't think i fit what the general population would think of as an extravert...i don't talk a lot...i'm not boisterous and take up a lot of space in a room...if ya know what i mean...

one on one i'm way chill...the more people around the more lively i am for whatever reason. it's an odd thing to notice about yourself actually...weird kinda...
 

rav3n

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Some people fuel me and some drain me too (I'd say I instantly like to stay away from crowds though.). I've always been one to break some silence with people though, to try to make friends sometimes, let my ideas (or judgements) be known when decisions need to be made. I don't identify though with the description that introverts (especially Fi doms) deliberate, hold back, or like to be agreeable/low key.

Not that this helps, but it seems the ENFPs and ISFPs might be the types that defy their own introversion/extroversion the most.
I'm sure this is a silly question but have you done the analysis looking strictly at the cognitive processes, avoiding dichotomies for the interim until you can nail down the processes?

It's pretty much exactly what Robopop said. The descriptions of extroversion given by tests and whatnot are not always catered exactly towards Te, which is what a __TJ type uses primarily. I'm pretty sure it's not rare with those types to wonder how extroverted you really are. I've even mistyped myself in the past as ISTJ.
Yes, Robopop and you are right but I didn't understand the implications until Eric's following quoted post. Too trapped in the almost defensive position of "people aren't for use so I'm not like my prior ENTJ boss" and also, extroversion must be expressed "this" way. But that's not what it means at all. It means that extraverted impetus for Te-doms requires a task-related focus.

And you said in the OP "Pursuit of friendships and relationships aren't my thing. But I'm open to friendships. Currently, relationships are in a no-fly zone."

I would think in this case, the "approach" that counts in expressiveness would be in your "work mode". The fact that you express then but not as much for friendships is clear task focus.
Responsiveness is based on the criteria you have for interaction. So in work mode, you express to people, but outside of that, they have to meet more of a criteria. Then, "no fly zone" would also indicate need for a criteria, if I'm understanding that correctly. So even if you allow people to approach you, I'm sure they still have to meet a criteria for any further interaction.
Explained this way, it now makes perfect sense!! Sometimes I'm so dense when it comes to anything personal. Thanks for breaking it down for me in a way I can grasp.

As far as the relationship "no-fly zone" comment, that's just me being facetious about taking a break away from dating and relationships to get my head screwed on properly, as it relates to the wonky Fi-inferior process.

hmm...i'm not sure that it actually does frustrate me but i don't think i fit what the general population would think of as an extravert...i don't talk a lot...i'm not boisterous and take up a lot of space in a room...if ya know what i mean...

one on one i'm way chill...the more people around the more lively i am for whatever reason. it's an odd thing to notice about yourself actually...weird kinda...
Yes, I really do understand. :)
 

KDude

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I'm sure this is a silly question but have you done the analysis looking strictly at the cognitive processes, avoiding dichotomies for the interim until you can nail down the processes?

It's not silly.. But yeah, I've tried to take that approach. I get bogged down though, because I think all functions are playing out in us (some more than others). It's all the more confusing since we all try to compensate for weaknesses in life, or get talked into things we didn't think we'd be good at, and end up proving ourselves wrong.. and over time, incorporate new skills (which could indirectly lead to more "function" use). I feel sorry for anyone who actually fits some cookie cutter MBTI label. If I traced all the way back to childhood, I'd be some ungodly mix of ESFP and INTP (heh.. hard to explain. Kind of an outgoing, persuasive nerd, who still wasn't afraid to pull fire alarms or pinch a girl's ass. ENTP? :confused: ;)).

Anyways, I know that doesn't answer your question. I don't really want to decide on my type at the moment. I think I just need to go on "autopilot", just step back a bit, and see if I notice a pattern to my behavior that way.
 

rav3n

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It's not silly.. But yeah, I've tried to take that approach. I get bogged down though, because I think all functions are playing out in us (some more than others). It's all the more confusing since we all try to compensate for weaknesses in life, or get talked into things we didn't think we'd be good at, and end up proving ourselves wrong.. and over time, incorporate new skills (which could indirectly lead to more "function" use). I feel sorry for anyone who actually fits some cookie cutter MBTI label. If I traced all the way back to childhood, I'd be some ungodly mix of ESFP and INTP (heh.. hard to explain. Kind of an outgoing, persuasive nerd, who still wasn't afraid to pull fire alarms or pinch a girl's ass. ENTP? :confused: ;)).

Anyways, I know that doesn't answer your question. I don't really want to decide on my type at the moment. I think I just need to go on "autopilot", just step back a bit, and see if I notice a pattern to my behavior that way.
The silliness was that as a long-time member, as if you wouldn't have tried to pinpoint it through cognitive processes if dichotomies weren't enlightening. :)

I sometimes wonder if P-types have more difficulty with typing themselves since that's a symptom of their processes of remaining open to new information.

Don't worry about me. The dissonance has been resolved. The E/I question has been answered in a way that fits within the framework of my limited conceptual understanding of type and cognitive processes.
 

KDude

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Well, it's not just openness to new information (which is definitely one part of the problem), but just my history as well. Fi is a strange development.. it sparked up in a big way in my late teens.. after a lot of spiritual beliefs weighing on my conscience, after friends getting their brains blown out, after going through rehab 3 times, and whatever... I mean, this shit is not even quantifiable by MBTI standards. When test questions start asking me if I care about "values" or something - then of course I do. It's hard to not look at life in a cautious, introverted way.. or in an idealistic Fi-dom way - and making choices from time to time that are irrational, based on compassion and feelings :D It obscures the fact that I'm a T in other ways too.

Anyways, grats on working it out. ;)
 

RaptorWizard

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Introversion is more rare than extraversion hence the introverts are almost as special as the intuitives and don't even get me started with the introverted intuitives that so many of you dang people on this forum claim to be.

Anyways I see introversion not necessarily meaning not fond of talking but rather more of a way of thinking and processing information as well as how you get energized whether internally or externally so introverts probably spend more time in their head and extraverts seem to spend more time on the outside world.

Someone correct me if I am wrong.
 
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