What if I'm dead wrong

[Ghost of the dead horse]

I just got more insight on the purposefullness and hidden agendas of some that I know. I must say, I've been more kind, well-meaning and open than I thought of, in comparison to the people I've compared myself against.

I'm not sure if this is Te's domain. I think I do support Te, prefer it, etc.. I just think that with my methods, I've actually (objectively, I believe) been more idealistic, I've been more motivated by feeling, values, being together, in harmony, etc than I've thought of. I've thought of having recognized my Fi.. is this is a sign of weak or strong Fi?

I've also tried to get rid of my idealism in the last few years; they haven't brought me cash in my wallet. And I do need it.

So. I've seen myself as someone comparatively harsh, scheming, plotting, doing individual. Okay, MBTI is about preferences. I've often wished to take the most direct course possible, sometimes a more tactful route, so that at least makes me a fan-boy of Te. What does that tell about the real strength of my Te? My real preferences?

I really seem like a moody poet-boy in comparison to some non-ENTJs I know, if we get deeper than the surface. Okay, I seem like a harsh, blunt and brave individual on the surface, but looks can be decieving.

Okay, so what type would I be then, if this scenario were true?

I'd have high Fi or Fe, I'm not sure which. High T (at least one of them) remains. High N remains. I should be some type who's inclined to idealize as opposed to strategize. INFP?

Thoughts?

(edited heavily)

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

So, am I infp or enfp or some other NF type for being so ineffective with my schemes, so trustful of others (however trustful that might be) etc?

 

[Craft]

Yes. xNFP probably. INFP sounds good.

 

[King sns]

I just got more insight on the purposefullness and hidden agendas of some that I know. I must say, I've been more kind, well-meaning and open than I thought of, in comparison to the people I've compared myself against.

I'm not sure if this is Te's domain. I think I do support Te, prefer it, etc.. I just think that with my methods, I've actually (objectively, I believe) been more idealistic, I've been more motivated by feeling, values, being together, in harmony, etc than I've thought of. I've thought of having recognized my Fi.. is this is a sign of weak or strong Fi?

I've also tried to get rid of my idealism in the last few years; they haven't brought me cash in my wallet. And I do need it.

So. I've seen myself as someone comparatively harsh, scheming, plotting, doing individual. Okay, MBTI is about preferences. I've often wished to take the most direct course possible, sometimes a more tactful route, so that at least makes me a fan-boy of Te. What does that tell about the real strength of my Te? My real preferences?

I really seem like a moody poet-boy in comparison to some non-ENTJs I know, if we get deeper than the surface. Okay, I seem like a harsh, blunt and brave individual on the surface, but looks can be decieving.

Okay, so what type would I be then, if this scenario were true?

I'd have high Fi or Fe, I'm not sure which. High T (at least one of them) remains. High N remains. I should be some type who's inclined to idealize as opposed to strategize. INFP?

Thoughts?

(edited heavily)

First of all, you are crazy.

Second of all, you could just be a very well developed ENTJ. How old are you? Tertiary functions can become pretty strong in adulthood. (Mid/late 20's?) Correct me if I'm wrong.

(Edit: Just realized that Fi is not your tertiary function- woops... However, you could still just be well developed. I never questioned your ENTJness.)

 

[Craft]

In theory, xnfps have a tendency to appear xntj due to extraverted function. They can be harsh, direct, manipulative etc. You could be the latter but "bouncinees" displayed in your OP made me think Ne.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

Bah, NFs can be harsh and NTs can be idealistic. That info doesn't take me any further than I was before.

Perhaps I should judge my primaries with how adept I am with them; F plays a childish role for me at times, making me take my losses and disappointments deeply.

Balanced, I'd hope. Perhaps in the long run, but not at the moment.

Perhaps selfishness, tendency to lie, give false impressions etc. isn't just that much associated to Te than I thought of. I gave it some thought today. I had begun to believe that way partly because of the talk on this forum - but, I must conclude that no one type is more evil or selfish than another. The tendencies just manifest in a different way in different types, and other types may have different abilities, on average, to perpetuate different kinds of lies and schemes.

So, I'll just have to match my level of selfishness to my environment, and I'll feel fine. I don't think this is a temperament issue anymore. But.. different types sure do have different preference with direct hostility, tact and deception.

It's kind of refreshing to know that.

 

[Craft]

Bah, NFs can be harsh and NTs can be idealistic.

"Can" means a possibility. On the other hand, The tendency is still true. NF 'tends' to be more idealistic and NT's tend to be technical.

Perhaps I should judge my primaries with how adept I am with them; F plays a childish role for me at times, making me take my losses and disappointments deeply.

I'm pretty sure "F" makes you more attached to things and "T" brings the issue towards a more consistent systematical view(which isn't necessarily effective).

If it doesn't make any "sense" to you that your taking your losses so deeply, then I guess you are more adept in "T". But if your just being attached, then it's just "F" being F.

I guess the question is: How much do you understand "F"?

Perhaps selfishness, tendency to lie, give false impressions etc. isn't just that much associated to Te than I thought of. I gave it some thought today. I had begun to believe that way partly because of the talk on this forum - but, I must conclude that no one type is more evil or selfish than another. The tendencies just manifest in a different way in different types, and other types may have different abilities, on average, to perpetuate different kinds of lies and schemes.

Of course not. I was just relating it to:

I seem like a harsh, blunt

It depends on the content of your "F", your values. This is why it's so stressful for an Inferior Fe if he/she values "being nice and considerate". They offend others without much understanding of the implications of their own social actions and then they get depress about it.(or at least, I do)

It's also stressful for Dom Fi's who values Te-attitudes.

Also, there's the question of what is "evil"?

 

[skylights]

aw, no doubting your type at 2500+ posts! what hope do i have?!

and to answer your title question, what if?, then you change your little type letters in your profile.

seriously though, INFP is a pretty big jump from ENTJ. i know not as much functions-wise, but simply in terms of overall "atmosphere" of the stereotypical person with those types. you know, fuzzy little white bunny versus sleek, growly mountain lion...

Perhaps selfishness, tendency to lie, give false impressions etc. isn't just that much associated to Te than I thought of.

yeah, i don't think that's associated with anything besides being an asshole - or just human. any introverted type tends to be a little self-absorbed, which could read as selfish, any Te/Fe tends to manipulate external things to get what they want, which could read as selfish, anyone in general can lie for their own reasons, and same goes for false impressions...

craft's point about it being difficult to value Te attitudes is a good one, but valuing Te does not at all mean being good at Te... maybe you can look at where you've been thinking you're good with Te - if it's littler things like language, then maybe that's throwing you off, but if you've valued your Te in terms of your ability to react in the moment, streamline, and get shit done, then i suspect that you probably aren't an INFP. MBTI might be "preferences", but i think that doesn't just mean preferences in your mind, it means which cognitive functions you actually prefer to use. skill at usage is necessarily going to come along as part of that - sure it's possible to have a crappy tert, or even an imbalanced (over- or under-used) aux, but i think your dominant is one of those things that you are necessarily going to be good at. you're more likely to attempt and fail at your tert...

actually one of my strongest role models is an INTJ and i find a lot of core similarities between us, though her style is different. she is definitely more efficient on a day-to-day basis than i am - i am more go-with-the-flow - but i can steamroll it like her when i'm under pressure, so i understand how an ENFP in a pressured life could go about thinking they're an INTJ, or ENTJ if they're super extraverted/Ne heavy, or how a Ni heavy INTJ could suspect themselves to be an INFP.

in terms of your real preferences, can you boil things down to a situation in which you really do not have many external pressures? like, if you're just doing something for fun... vacationing, or some kind of sport or hobby, or if you're just about to take a walk in a flower field. for me, my type becomes really clear in these situations, even though i have strong tertiary Te and do utilize it in everyday life.

--

oh geez i've edited this like 10 times. okay, one more thing --

as far as i've experienced, and i've heard from other NFPs, weak Fi tends to swing two ways - the first is not-really-used (or worse, repressed) Fi, which tends to manifest as a lack of attentiveness to what's going on inside other people and the associations and emotions you keep inside yourself. the other is out-of-control Fi, which can manifest as serious sudden emotional onset and self-doubt, sudden self-righteousness (as perceived by others), tendency to latch onto certain very meaningful things, and bouts of idealism fairly removed from reality.

of course, people also like to point out that Ps tend to be "softer" on the surface with a tough core, while Js tend to be tougher on the surface with a soft core. if that helps at all.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

So, am I infp or enfp or some other NF type for being so ineffective with my schemes, so trustful of others (however trustful that might be) etc?

If you're wrong, then nothing changes, just your self concerpt and personality label.

 

[Thalassa]

There have been a couple of people here who have had a hard time deciding between INFP and INTJ. I think this is because some INTJs have high Fi, and an Ni/Fi loop might look INFP ...on the other hand, it's unlikely an INFP is gonna have high Te (it's their inferior function although they do have it)...unless you're older, maybe at least 30 or 40 years old. ENFPs are much more likely than INFP to show Te.

Have you considered the possibility that you might be a "squishy on the inside" INTJ? Does ENFP sound remotely plausible?

I don't know enough about you to really say.

 

[Thalassa]

In theory, xnfps have a tendency to appear xntj due to extraverted function. They can be harsh, direct, manipulative etc. You could be the latter but "bouncinees" displayed in your OP made me think Ne.

More likely ENFP than INFP you're describing here.

 

[KDude]

I think you could have steeped into your ESTJ shadow side? Except it's not like you're N would completely disappear, so some of your planning could possibly be mistaken for Ni/ENTJ.

There's a rather funny story in Naomi Quenk's book, about a college dean (or maybe it was a professor) who carried himself in a way that made the students nervous as hell. At a certain point, the school had MBTI tests done, faculty included. To everyone's surprise, he was an INFP The story went into it a little further, on how he was just emulating what he thought was required of him in his position, due to his own personal experiences.. he had been living in his shadow due to pressure, and for the sake of career.

Anyhow, I don't think it's uncommon for people who get into different sides of themselves. I've got my own stories too.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

A post is coming. I've rethought every post in here 5 times. I'll have to give it more time though.

 

[Craft]

More likely ENFP than INFP you're describing here.

From experience, I disagree. Values are probably largely involved here.

 

[You]

you are likely isfp

 

[KDude]

^Not a bad guess..

The whole dual sided nature of types interests me.. I think that's why some celebrities may be hard to type too. People think Gaga is INFJ or ESTP - she could be a little of both. Or Angelina Jolie.. an ISTP with a Fe side that could shame most people (that, or she's ENFJ with an ISTP side). Kobe Bryant almost seems like ISFP/ENTJ. Richard Pryor is probably an INJ of some kind - and funnier and raunchier than any ESPs.

This idea that we are all convenient little archetypes who have predictable habits never sat well with me. INFP doesn't "have" to be some emokid, or INFJ doesn't have to be mystical psychic Jesus, or ESTPs don't have to be pornstar conmen, or ENTJs don't have to be "unfeeling dictators", or whatever.. like we are all destined to live out life according to some blueprint.

Anyways, sorry for ranting.. it's been on my mind lately. Personally, I've always hated be told what to do or what to be, and that's exactly what MBTI does a bit, unintentionally. And I observe all of the time how it's just not how life works for many people.

 

[Thalassa]

From experience, I disagree. Values are probably largely involved here.

Some people think ENFPs are "meaner" than ENTPs because of tertiary Te. ENFPs are known for something called "Te push" which is heavily guided by their Fi values, making us more direct, and even more confrontational, than INFPs.

Silly Sapienne and I have both been called "Hitler" at some point in our lives, apparently. If you take a survey of the INFPs on the board, you'll probably find that's far less likely the case with them.

 

[KDude]

Silly Sapienne and I have both been called "Hitler" at some point in our lives, apparently.

Hey, I was called an ubermensch one time (lol.. totally overblown). More in the "might makes right" sense, not the Hitler sense. Although I don't believe that.. Yet sometimes I get this urge to hone in on what's useful, cut the bullshit, and push. The only thing is, I know it's not my strong/mature point. I don't want to overdo it (I have the Catholic guilt, I think).

 

[Thalassa]

Hey, I was called an ubermensch one time (lol.. totally overblown). More in the "might makes right" sense, not the Hitler sense. Although I don't believe that.. Yet sometimes I get this urge to hone in on what's useful, cut the bullshit, and push. The only thing is, I know it's not my strong/mature point. I don't want to overdo it (I have the Catholic guilt, I think).

I was in high school at the time. I don't really do it now, but if there's a situation that's in chaos and nobody steps up to take control, and it HAS to be dealt with...I will. And it's not in an Fe sense of wanting to guide people or control people on a daily basis at all. It comes more in spurts and is often more about task management, or controlling (or motivating) A COMPLETELY INTOLERABLE SITUATION. It takes a lot for me to get there. I don't have an ExxJ temperament, so I usually want to be left alone...that means in reality I don't spend much time policing others, nor do I care to. It's definitely exaggerated flashes of tertiary Te...I think it was uglier when I was younger and less mature, and when it comes out now it's often because of stress, or because of just wanting to "cut the crap" like you said.

I still use Te on a regular basis. But there's a difference between using tert Te and actually going into full-blown SCARY mode.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

Oh my god, I wrote a post longer than an hour and my session expired. So here comes an abstract of what I wrote. Far less elaborate than the original, mind you.

-I've had repressed E in childhood. E is my true self. In my adulthood, I has been because of troubles, whereas E has been because of I've wanted it so.

-N/S is hard to decide. I've had grassroots approach to many issues in my childhood, but huge enthusiasm and acceptance of N concepts. My theory - I've been strong N with a value on concreteness and realness.

-T/F values. I think the T favors somewhat. F values have been distant, whereas T has been direct. Perhaps because of hurt feelings, immature personality as a child, I don't know what.

-I get a combination of man-like and woman-like brain patterns. For a reason or another, I've never thought of myself as anything other than a hetero man. This is also a natural state and not a result of repression. I think this condition makes my life more enjoyable, but it makes me harder to decide on some subjects. I think I would have been extremely quick with my judgements without this effect. I think this gives me more like an appearance of P.

-I'm 33.