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ESTP?

white

~dangerous curves ahead~
Joined
Nov 15, 2007
Messages
2,591
MBTI Type
ENTP
Not that I am fighting your analysis but I am also very J at home. Except when I make the concious decision to abandon my routine, such as last week for example.

And that's my point, doggie. Is personality under conscious control, or that which comes out when you're relaxed? :)

I think you're under some kind of stress which is morphing you into your shadow processes. But you can't use them really well. Hence your confusion and the need to straighten out what type you are here - without internal clarity, you're not able to find that external path out of things, is it?
 

JustDave

New member
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
992
MBTI Type
xNTP
And that's my point, doggie. Is personality under conscious control, or that which comes out when you're relaxed? :)

I think you're under some kind of stress which is morphing you into your shadow processes. But you can't use them really well. Hence your confusion and the need to straighten out what type you are here - without internal clarity, you're not able to find that external path out of things, is it?

I will concede to your first point. My Jness is definitely a fabrication to some extent.

On Sunday I was certainly feeling burned out, then yesterday and Monday I felt whimisical and very alive. But today I feel calm. Like I can see all ends. This feels like the true me.
 

Ezra

Luctor et emergo
Joined
Dec 12, 2007
Messages
534
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
8w7
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
The difference I want power and control over myself. ENTJ's want to have the same over others. Come to think of it, I see your point :D

Not all ENTJs do. Plus, all unhealthy Eights want control over others, because it's a case of control or be controlled.

And if you are an 8w7, you will not mind dishing orders out to others and taking the leadership position for yourself. Can you do that?
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,192
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
ESFPs are Se + Fi + Te + Ni, and this fits with what I have seen.

They seem to flit around, immersing themselves in whatever seems exciting at the moment (and avoid lulls if at all possible). Usually

But they also have an industrious side, once they find a target goal that has personal meaning to them (or... will make them lots of money -- I don't know why money is so important, but they will do anything and dream up any scheme for a buck). This is where Te comes into play, and sometimes Fi gets dumped by the window. The ESFP will use all extroverted functions (because it's more comfortable) and do the Se + Te thing to accomplish their goals. In pursuit of a goal, then, they can be very industrious... first by being tireless (and perhaps obsessive) in their ambition, and then manipulating as many details as possible to make their plan work.

But in general, I don't know any ESFPs who manifest "J" that gets read as "J" compared to a "J" person... not unless they are in an environment that forces it and/or married to a strongly J spouse.
 

JustDave

New member
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
992
MBTI Type
xNTP
ESFPs are Se + Fi + Te + Ni, and this fits with what I have seen.

They seem to flit around, immersing themselves in whatever seems exciting at the moment (and avoid lulls if at all possible). Usually

But they also have an industrious side, once they find a target goal that has personal meaning to them (or... will make them lots of money -- I don't know why money is so important, but they will do anything and dream up any scheme for a buck). This is where Te comes into play, and sometimes Fi gets dumped by the window. The ESFP will use all extroverted functions (because it's more comfortable) and do the Se + Te thing to accomplish their goals. In pursuit of a goal, then, they can be very industrious... first by being tireless (and perhaps obsessive) in their ambition, and then manipulating as many details as possible to make their plan work.

But in general, I don't know any ESFPs who manifest "J" that gets read as "J" compared to a "J" person... not unless they are in an environment that forces it and/or married to a strongly J spouse.

To be quite honest, I have never been overly concerned with money. In fact, much to my chagrin, when I tell people that I am primarily pursing a Masters degree primarily out need for intellectual stimulation they think I'm insane.
 

INTJMom

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Messages
5,413
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w4
Are you SURE you're not an N?!
 

JustDave

New member
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
992
MBTI Type
xNTP
Are you SURE you're not an N?!

I'm not sure. Many members of this forum have convinced me that I am a Sensor but after further introspection I believe they are wrong.
 
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INTJMom

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Messages
5,413
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w4
I'm not sure. Many members of this forum have convinced me that I am a Sensor but after further introspection I believe they are wrong.
You are awfully iNtuitive in this thread.
 

JustDave

New member
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
992
MBTI Type
xNTP
I have no mental illness and am in good health yet I am very moody. One day I can be whimisical, the next serious or peacful but the three things that never change are: my odd ability to make connections between seemingly disparate entities, a desire to always look to the future and willingess to assume perspectives detached from myself. Not so much objectivity as transcendance.
 
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Kiddo

Furry Critter with Claws
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
2,790
MBTI Type
OMNi
I have no mental illness and am in good health yet I am very moody. One day I can be whimisical, the next serious or peacful but the three things that never change are: my odd ability to make connections between seemingly disparate entities, a desire to always look to the future and willingess to assume perspectives detached from myself. Not so much objectivity as transcendance.

You seem to know so much about yourself but nothing about your overall preferences. I'll just have to agree with ESFP simply because that is what you chose.
 

JustDave

New member
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Jan 20, 2008
Messages
992
MBTI Type
xNTP
Perhaps I chose ESFP because I knew it would be conducive to interesting discussions?
 

Kiddo

Furry Critter with Claws
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
2,790
MBTI Type
OMNi
Indeed. And, what temperament is known for manipulative behaviour?

Any type can be manipulative. It's not so much a personality defect, as a defect of character.
 

alicia91

New member
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
671
You seem to know so much about yourself but nothing about your overall preferences

I don't think that is unusual. Often our characteristics can't be neatly aligned with the preferences.

Keep trying Dave - I'm too new and can't even figure myself out to be any help to you. Another poster recently advised me to think about it and read up on it but wait a few months to decide. Maybe that's something you should consider? (of course I don't take my own advice!)
 

JustDave

New member
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Jan 20, 2008
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992
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xNTP
Any type can be manipulative. It's not so much a personality defect, as a defect of character.

I am far from manipulative. Allow me to present my case.

When I joined this forum and suggested that I might be an INTJ or an INFJ my notion was very quickly eviscerated by many of its members. So I decided to exhibit what I thought were the complete opposite of my true traits which were: insecurity, irrational, careless, unnecessarily ingratiating, etc and see what conclusion would be made. When the conclusion that I was an ESFP was made I decided to play the role and see if it fit me. Perhaps the members of this forum were correct in their assement of my character?

Thankfully they weren't. So here I remain an INFJ.
 

JustDave

New member
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Jan 20, 2008
Messages
992
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xNTP
I don't think that is unusual. Often our characteristics can't be neatly aligned with the preferences.

Keep trying Dave - I'm too new and can't even figure myself out to be any help to you. Another poster recently advised me to think about it and read up on it but wait a few months to decide. Maybe that's something you should consider? (of course I don't take my own advice!)

Thank you for those kind words.
 

Kiddo

Furry Critter with Claws
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
2,790
MBTI Type
OMNi
I am far from manipulative. Allow me to present my case.

When I joined this forum and suggested that I might be an INTJ or an INFJ my notion was very quickly eviscerated by many of its members. So I decided to exhibit what I thought were the complete opposite of my true traits which were: insecurity, irrational, careless, unnecessarily ingratiating, etc and see what conclusion would be made. When the conclusion that I was an ESFP was made I decided to play the role and see if it fit me. Perhaps the members of this forum were correct in their assement of my character?

Thankfully they weren't. So here I remain an INFJ.

Pretending to be something else in order to influence others and promote your own agenda is the definition of being manipulative. :coffee:
 

JustDave

New member
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Jan 20, 2008
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992
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xNTP
Pretending to be something else in order to influence others and promote your own agenda is the definition of being manipulative. :coffee:

Indeed so. However, I wasn't promoting an agenda in the nefarious sense, I was protecting and re-affirming my sense of self.
 

white

~dangerous curves ahead~
Joined
Nov 15, 2007
Messages
2,591
MBTI Type
ENTP
Dave, if you participated more in other threads, it could give a better grasp. Right now we're mainly shooting in the dark actually.

Re manipulation, there's a certain sense that you're seeking attention, - Kiddo reads this as manipulation. I read this as an underlying anxiety to be liked. To escape and find validation, in other words.

If you'd take my honesty, if you'd relax a bit more, it'd allow your real character to come out. One thing the members here do not like is being manipulated, but they're generally more forgiving of folks wanting to work out internal issues if you'd face up to them.

Does that make sense?
 
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