ENFJ vs ESFJ

[FFF]

one of my friends who had pegged as an ESFJ also seems very ENFJ so how do they look similar and how do they look different, any ExFJ input would be lovely btw. I'll post a description of her later. or just start asking questions and I'll answer them best I can.

I would look at the two different temperments, SJ and NF. I think ESFJs are more traditional and do things how they've always been done and stuff like that. ENFJs have a much greater focus on people and making things better for them or seeing the best in them.

 

[prplchknz]

see the thing is she tends to be very traditional but fits Pinks description of ENFJ very well and she's not happy go lucky. I'm thinking I've been wrong about, but she is not an easy person to type, mostly because she's been depressed the whole time I've known her and that can throw things off. When I'm depressed I come across more INTP, don't know why.

 

[FFF]

see the thing is she tends to be very traditional but fits Pinks description of ENFJ very well and she's not happy go lucky. I'm thinking I've been wrong about, but she is not an easy person to type, mostly because she's been depressed the whole time I've known her and that can throw things off. When I'm depressed I come across more INTP, don't know why.

Negative emotions tend to draw you away from people. That could make you seem more INTP-like.

 

[wildcat]

Okay, now I'm confused. I mean, I've always tested as an "S" whenever I take these tests.. but it's usually about 53% S. Maybe it's the questions.. most of the online tests ask if I like theories and wonder about humanity. I don't, but does that automatically make me an S?
I can read both the ENFJ and ESFJ profiles and see how they both fit me.
ESFJ: like tradition, structure, and people
ENFJ: avoid problems, and center their lives around relationships, and have good communication skills.
These are the main points that fit me. So I ask all of you to answer: What are the main differences between an ENFJ and ESFJ?
As I stated they both really like people.. and I agree that I am a people person. However, I KNOW how to get someone to do what I want.. at the same time, I do avoid problems in relationships (ENFJ). My mom always jokes around about me being a lawyer because I know how to persuade people. However, I still value structure and security as much as the next SJ. Is it possible to be a true "X" (be 50/50 on the S/N) or do I still prefer one?
Thanks in advance for your input.

53 per cent is not S.

 

[prplchknz]

that last post I wrote when I was up for about 38 hours, so I was sleepy this one I'm writing before my morning coffee so you should probably ignore this one and the one before. Mine not wildcat's

and my friend loves making plans she's always like we need to make a plan and I'm like meh we'll figure it out tommorow, and she tends to be very traditional as well. She doesn't like alot of people (I don't mean she doesn't like being around people, because I've noticed when she is she's energized)but I mean the actually individuals. Then again one of the things I don't like about her she's sexist and racist she said that she was leaving the country if a woman got elected president. I told her that sex shouldn't play a role in who you support and that it be dumb to leave because their's going to be plenty of presidents you don't like. and she's contradictory she doesn't believe in god but supports Huckabee because he has morals and she thinks thats the most important thing to being president, not the ability to do the job but morals. Avoiding problems she does that to an extent and as far as I can tell she centers herself around relationships. Ok I've kinda torn her part she really isn't a bad person just very closed minded I mean her parents are hundred times worse, she told me until about middle school she believe what her parents believed (they're fundamentalist). But I can see as she gets older going back to what they believe, though we have changed her mind about gay people. She does try to keep an open mind but it doesn't seem like a natural thing for her.


Some good qualities she cares for people, doesn't forget birthdays or she'll ask a thousand times too make sure she doesn't miss it. She defiently is Fe dom. Me and her do fight she accuses me of not caring and I tell her just because I don't show my emotions all the time doesn't mean I don't care. But once it's over and this is the bittersweet part she acts like nothing ever happened. But she brings up things that happened two years ago that really have nothing to do with now or very little. Me I run from the past (bad situations mainly) she chases it. I don't mean I forget about the past because sometimes when I think about it I get angry I just don't bring it up to people. The big thing with her is loyalty she tries to be loyal to her friends and wants the same from them.

 

[Heather]

ENFJ with a coworker ESFJ

I am an ENFJ and I can see some practical differences in my coworker ESFJ. She is big on tradition for sure. Christmas is exciting to her and she decorates and bakes for it and I could care less about the baking and tons of decorations if I am busy.

We are in the same social group and she bakes and hosts. I host too but lead the group discussion more and take the topics to more fun, interesting and thought provoking on a deeper level and with meaning. She gets bored with that N talk and wants to discuss news or S things. At a social event she will send the invitation and hand make them and I will generate the excitement and promote it face-to-face. Both invites makes our social gatherings a success and a good team.

We also both work at a university with students but she prefers to coordinate them and I like to advise the students and relate to them to get a feel of where they are. She doesn't see what I see all the time. If the event has isolated students I feel empathy for them as opposed to her who was busy getting more chairs and food for them. This is a typical example.

Also I am future oriented and she is past oriented when we get on long conversation topics. Sometimes she cannot read people and will ask me about a boyfriend or past relationship and I can read the seething emotions of the guy and she takes them at face value and it totally confuses and hurts her. I tell her when the guys leaking emotions might be a clearer picture than his overt actions. We help each other in that sense because she shows me to take people at face value and not read meaning when there may not be any and vice versa.

She has a better decorated apartment than me. More cooking stuff and lots of decorations than mine.

 

[Jack Flak]

Once again, concern for cake rears its ugly head among ESFJs.

 

[Heather]

Clarify?

Interesting, my dear Purple Chickens.

I have two ESFJ friends. They're only superficially like me.

One of them once told me (while giving me a big squeeze) that I was a stormy girl, but she loved me for it. lol

Observations:

ESFJs - honestly and truly optimistic (think Charlotte from "Sex and the City"); child-like openness (not idiocy, just not easily jaded); resistant to mean people and deeply hurt by exclusion; very group oriented; true "host/hostess" types that draw energy from that sort of mixing; very deeply held belief in the goodness of others; overly perky/enthusiastic at times; romantics with a capital R; sustainer of the time-honored tradition

ESFJs, in a good vein, are some of the most accepting people I've ever met and are very concerned with fair play.

ENFJs - moodier; morbid humor; uninterested in keeping a party going (more wanting to socialize than organize); very interested in abstract thought; not particularly concerned with "wine and roses" displays from mates; disconnected from the physical environment in general (esp in comparison to their S counterpart); not hyper; intractable; eruptive or ferocious, even when not under pressure; empathically jacked into just about everyone around them

I've had ESFJs comment in wonder that ENFJs are way more bloody-minded and have a weird removal or separateness from their environment.

And I don't propose to speak for all ENFJs here. It's just easier to type it this way. It's just my experience.

I really liked your description of ENFJ here. Closest I have seen but do you think we aren't hyper? Sometimes I think I am. And you see us as eruptive or ferocious? I hope the ENFJ's you met were nice! What happened there?
I am not ferocious unless aggressively attacked and now I know that I shouldn't let that out. I need to walk away or I will be angry back but that is a dumb idea.

 

[Afkan]

Difference btwn ENFJs and ESFJs:

ENFJs are educational leaders (thus the desire to help others realize/acheive potential) and ESFJs are social leaders, acting more as master of ceremonies. ESFJs are skilled at always saying the "right" thing, giving the right people recognition in large group settings(According to keirsey).

ENFJs are role-directive and ESFJs are role-informative.

I find that this makes a huge difference in the way these two personality types interact with others. ENFJs are comfortable with direct communication, even telling someone what action they would like the other to take. ESFJs (that I know) are always asking if so and so would do such and such. ESFJs are much less direct...sometimes I find this frustrating cause I don't always translate indirect communication accuratley. However, it has been found that role-directive personalities prefer direct communication and vice-versa.

I think that Role-directive and role-informative styles are hugely defining in personality differences. Among SJs, the T's (both I and E) are role-directive. Among SPs, the T's again. Among iNtuitives its the P or J that is paramount- xNxJ's are role-directive, whether F/T, I/E. Therefore INFJs and ENFJs are the only role-directive personality styles that are Feelings types. I believe this is a huge factor in what gives the ENFJ a different flavor- They are the only Extraverted Feeling type that is role-directive. I know that I still annoy people while telling them "what to do," although I really try to be sensitive to their desired communication preference and I pay attention to reactions. Also, Keirsey says that the ENFJ makes implicit "commands." All other role-directive styles do not have Fe as a dominant function.


I work with several ESFJs and we plan fun acitivities- those ESFJs think of all kinds of things that I tend to forget, like do we have enough chairs for everyone? lol- my head is way too in the clouds and that sort of thing holds no interest for me, but those things are extremely important. I am much better at meeting with clients one on one and finding their strengths, as well helping to increase motivation in acheiving goals.

ESFJs are very, very, very practical and realistic. This can tend to be perceived as boring to some other types once one gets to know an ESFJ, although the Fe makes them extremely charasmatic people who are great at hospitality and small talk.

I am married to an ESFJ. I love him. He keeps me grounded, and my head out of the clouds for at least some of the time. He sometimes says about my enthusiasm, nothing could be that wonderful . ESFJs look very optimistic, but like all SJs if pressed they will tell you that they see the world "as it is," and that optimism that you see is a facade to make life more bearable for themselves but especially those around them.

 

[Eric B]

Yes, the next major factor in temperament theory after introversion and extroversion is people/task orientation, which Keirsey and Berens named informative and directive. This is also calles "responsiveness", and actually tels you whether the person is really geared towards people inside, while I/E deals with their surface expression to people.
So on the flipside, there is another level of responsiveness Berens identified: for N's, F is motive-focused, while for the S's, J is structure-focused. This is sort of the mirror of role-informative/directive, and in all the FJ's (and TP's), both factors balance each other out while TJ's which are directive and structure are the most directive, and FP's which are informative and motive are the least directive. So the SFJ's are the only Feeling types that are structure focused. This will give them a kind of directiveness, but it will be more in leadership or responsibility (conation) than in social responsiveness. So ESFJ is a Sanguine-Melancholic while ENFJ is Choleric-Phlegmatic.

ESFJ's and ENFJ's will also seem ambiguous because Ne or Se are tertiary. So when I was explaining S/N to my wife, who is ESFJ, she insisted that she is "very imaginative" and other N descriptions. Yet that would fit the relief (or "inflated") position, while she "supports" (or "parents") with Si! So I imagine ENFJ's might have an inflated Se and possibly identify with S.

 

[proteanmix]

How do ExFJs experience their tertiary function (ESFJ=Ne, ENFJ=Se)? Has anyone ever heard of function deterioration? When you connect Fe-Ne and Fe-Se they give very different results. Fe-Se tends to be more real-world focused and there is a practicality and need for impact involved in this dynamic.

As for how I experience my tertiary, it's always interesting to me that people talk of Se as an adventure-seeking function, when the SPs I know seem to be reality-seeking. Reality can take the form of physical thrills, but I think that depends on how it's focused. I'm entering into a period where I want to physically experience new things but it's not as refined and graceful as an SP would, it's basically like gorging yourself on temporal things and then throwing up the next morning. Hangover sucks.

 

[JoSunshine]

I'm an ENFJ and my sister is an ESFJ and we are only 1 year apart in age.

We look very much alike on the outside and do have much in common. I echo some of the posts here when I say that the biggest difference is how we see people. My sister is very concrete in her assesments. She looks at the results of a persons effort and then determines if that (concrete) result is acceptable or not. I look at WHY a person did or did not acheive a result and then try to address the (intangible) root issue.

I basically see the "cause and effect" of almost everything. I would say that most people would say I am "softer" than her. Sometimes this comes in handy, but if you are looking someone who is an extemely effective task master, you are going to want to check in with my sis

 

[Fecal McAngry]

Lots of great stuff here...ESFJs and ENFJs have very different vibes...the focus of an ESFJ is on the past and present. The focus of an ENFJ is on the future and present. As a result, despite similar surface affability, ESFJs tend to be far less dissatisfied with the now than ENFJs, far more comfortable with maintaining "what is" rather than actualizing "what can be". The changes ESFJs tend to push for tend to be typically concrete SJ improvements--weight loss, more money, a promotion, etc. The changes ENFJs push for will invariably take on an abstract, humanistic, idealistic bent involving such concepts as self-actualization, interpersonal growth, and all sorts of things that may strike SJs as a little bit wacky...

ENFJs lead and motivate
ESFJs manage and nurture

ESFJs:
YouTube - Jack Lalanne - Unhappy people
YouTube - Richard Simmons visits the CISN Country morning crew
YouTube - Top gear Jay Leno interview

ENFJs:
YouTube - JOAN BAEZ "For All We know" - 1979
YouTube - Sugar Ray Leonard Interview
YouTube - Bill Clinton Clip

 

[proteanmix]

Lots of great stuff here...ESFJs and ENFJs have very different vibes...the focus of an ESFJ is on the past and present. The focus of an ENFJ is on the future and present. As a result, despite similar surface affability, ESFJs tend to be far less dissatisfied with the now than ENFJs, far more comfortable with maintaining "what is" rather than actualizing "what can be". The changes ESFJs tend to push for tend to be typically concrete SJ improvements--weight loss, more money, a promotion, etc. The changes ENFJs push for will invariably take on an abstract, humanistic, idealistic bent involving such concepts as self-actualization, interpersonal growth, and all sorts of things that may strike SJs as a little bit wacky...

ENFJs lead and motivate
ESFJs manage and nurture

I know you gave examples of some "concrete improvements" are, but even the "abstract" bent that ENFJs have need to manifest themselves concretely.

Let's take a fairly simple example. An ESFJ and ENFJ decide to run a marathon. Are you saying that an ESFJ wouldn't run for self-actualization and an ENFJ wouldn't run just to run? When you throw concepts like interpersonal growth in the NF pile...IDK you just can't make it that simple.

I work with many ESFJs and I may be one of them. To say my motivations are like "Why did the chicken cross the road? To get to the other side" simple...it just seems to me that no one really tries to get to know people well at all to really see what makes them work. If people did, they wouldn't make statements like that. I can tell you truthfully, that if I sense you were one of the type of people that needed great profundity and for me to be quoting philosophers in order to respect my intelligence and depth, all you'd ever get from me is conversations about Dancing with the Stars or American Idol. That's all you'd see, that's all you'd have to form an opinion about me, and you'd be dead wrong.

People find their identity in different things. Some people find their most salient characteristics to be their career, or a hobby, by being a parent, or their belief system. Sometimes it seems to me that people rank the worthiness of salient traits, like someone who wants to be successful at their job doesn't have as much depth as someone who wants to watch waves crash against the shore and write poetry about it. Someone wanting to be successful at their job could very well find a cure of cancer or AIDS. I think it's more what people do with their defining characteristics than the characteristic themselves.