This is just beginning to get on my nerves...

[EffEmDoubleyou]

I completely understand. I have consistently tested INTJ but suspect I might be INTP for the same reasons...I'm kind of a jack of all trades and I while I have general ambition, I don't have the will to work every day to achieve. I am easily sidetracked. I am, however, comfortable in leadership positions. I've decided to just let it lie, because these things are just supposed to be guides and tools, not a definitive measure of a person.

Since I'm in the same boat, I'll take a stab at Aelan's question. I'd hightail it out of there for two reasons: 1. My friend did it, not me, and I don't want to be drawn and quartered for nothing. 2. While I have a general respect for the law, I wouldn't trust the tribe's system of judgement and punishment without understanding it first and I'd be afraid to receive a death sentence for an accident under a system I don't understand.

 

[Metamorphosis]

I'd get rather annoyed at this so-called "friend" of mine, to being with. I will try to force my friend to go announce what happened to the tribesmen on his own. If he doesn't comply, I will knock him out with a shovel or some similar device, bring his unconscious body along with the corpse to the tribe settlement. I will attach a sticky note on either my friend's limp body, or the tribesman's corpse, explaining the situation. Then, I will wait a while, see if this friend makes it out alive or not. If he doesn't, and the tribesmen end up going after me, I will just get out of there as quickly as possible.

I am rather interested to hear you interpret this.

Are you being serious? If so, I highly doubt that you are an INTJ.

I would have shoved his ass off the road and continued on. If I thought there was a chance of me being linked to it, I would leave the country with all possible haste.

 

[MerkW]

The way I see it, the INTJ has inferior Se, which serves as an aspirational function. The Ni position in the INTJ dreams of a life of action freedom, but the Ni makes these Se desires impractical and unrealistic unless developed, potentially leaving Ni trapped in their idealized fantasy world. So the INTJ can also be over-obsessive and cautious in their pursuit of their Se aspiration.

The INTP, on the other hand, has an Fe aspiration, which is more a desire to fit into their social group. This is probably the source of the INTP's social awkwardness. Tertiary Si is likely what makes the INTPs gatherers of useless knowledge.

Based off that, INTJ seems more fitting. But then again, I challenge the accuracy of your second paragraph. I always saw INTPs as the type least likely to want to "fit in" to any group, and rather remain a detached, idiosyncratic observer.

Do you see yourself leading people?

Do you have trouble telling people what to do (directing vs. informing)?

I'd rather lead than follow, and I don't have any problems leading, yet it simply doesn't appeal to me particularly.

 

[MerkW]

I would have shoved his ass off the road and continued on. If I thought there was a chance of me being linked to it, I would leave the country with all possible haste.

Well, it is specified that this person is a "friend." I really don't have many friends at all. I only have one or two true friends, both of whom I value. If this person were actually a friend of mine, I wouldn't just kick them out of the car. If it were someone else, like an acquaintance, a relative I dislike, or just some stranger, then I similarly, would have just thrown them out of the car and kept on driving.

 

[Athenian200]

Bear with me?

You're on a hot and dusty road out in Guatemala with a friend who's had 6 cans of beer, and is driving at 90 miles an hour. All of a sudden, a tribesman pops out from nowhere, and WHAM, your friend knocks him down dead. Now you've two options. One would be to go to the tribe and confess, for which you and your friend are most likely to be hung and quartered, or two, pack up, fly out of the country in the next hour, and no one will ever know.

What'll you do, and why?

I can't imagine anyone choosing the first option. You'd almost have to go with packing up and flying out.

Here's the dialog I imagine:

Me: Ahh! What was that! (responding to the car bump)
Them: I-I just hit someone!
Me: Oh my god! (gets out of the car and checks)
Me: It was a native. But do you realize how much trouble we'd be in right now if this had been a civilized person? We'd be stuck here in court, or possibly even prison. This is why you don't drink and drive, okay? Goodness, I can't believe you were so stupid!
Them: Well, what are we going to do now?
Me: What do you think? We're going to get the heck out of here before someone sees us. We'll pull the body over to the side of the road and try to make it look like he just collapsed for some reason. They probably won't know what did this as primitive as they are, and they're not likely to appeal to the larger legal system if they don't know an outsider caused this.
Them: I'm sorry about this.
Me: Yeah, me too. I just hope you understand what a terrible thing you've done and what could have happened to you, how much stress you're causing me, and that that's sufficient motivation to get you to stop drinking like this. Sigh. Let's just get out of here.
*drive off*



So, what does this measure, anyway?

I'd get rather annoyed at this so-called "friend" of mine, to being with. I will try to force my friend to go announce what happened to the tribesmen on his own. If he doesn't comply, I will knock him out with a shovel or some similar device, bring his unconscious body along with the corpse to the tribe settlement. I will attach a sticky note on either my friend's limp body, or the tribesman's corpse, explaining the situation. Then, I will wait a while, see if this friend makes it out alive or not. If he doesn't, and the tribesmen end up going after me, I will just get out of there as quickly as possible.

I am rather interested to hear you interpret this.

I can't believe someone would actually do that, it's so dangerous and doesn't do anyone any good.

 

[Metamorphosis]

Well, it is specified that this person is a "friend." I really don't have many friends at all. I only have one or two true friends, both of whom I value. If this person were actually a friend of mine, I wouldn't just kick them out of the car. If it were someone else, like an acquaintance, a relative I dislike, or just some stranger, then I similarly, would have just thrown them out of the car and kept on driving.

I was talking about the tribesman, not my friend.

 

[JustDave]

Based off that, INTJ seems more fitting. But then again, I challenge the accuracy of your second paragraph. I always saw INTPs as the type least likely to want to "fit in" to any group, and rather remain a detached, idiosyncratic observer.



I'd rather lead than follow, and I don't have any problems leading, yet it simply doesn't appeal to me particularly.

Hope I am not being pedantic but would you prefer to lead (control others) or, alternatively, not be led/controlled and be your own boss?

It seems like judging types generally have no problem leading others. However, it seems like most perceiving types would prefer to be left alone. To not be led yet to not lead others would be ideal.

 

[MerkW]

I can't imagine anyone choosing the first option. You'd almost have to go with packing up and flying out.

So, what does this measure, anyway?

This is what I was thinking.

It reminds me of a hypothetical question a friend of mine asked me yesterday: "Would you rather spend 3 months as a peace activist in Sudan, spend 2 months in Sierra Leone, or spend 2 months locked in a cabin/room/apartment with a roommate who is determined to kill you."

I wondered why someone wouldn't select the last one. Most likely, it would be rather easy to out-smart the individual. It would actually be fun if he/she were around the same intellectual level as I. It would be something along the lines of a battle of the wits. Like a puzzle with extremely high stakes.

 

[JustDave]

Around the same Intellectual Level as I?

My silly intuition is now telling me you are definitely an INTJ. Why? Who knows. I try not to question the magic of intuition.

 

[MerkW]

I was talking about the tribesman, not my friend.

Hah! That was a rather amusing misinterpretation. Regardless, my statement remains. If the person is not a true friend of mine I would say something along the lines of "Figure the dilemma out on your own. It's your fault. Your drunkenness really irritates me. You should have never been given a driver's license. Have fun desperately trying to stay alive in this wasteland." *I drive away while chuckling in a rather evil manner*

To answer the other question,
I would rather just be left alone then boss people. However, I would rather boss people than follow orders.

 

[Domino]

I normally see INTPs portrayed as the experts in their field, but who typically remain relatively low level in the corporate heirarchy.

Good point, Met. INTJs seem to have some Machiavellian ambition in them if it suits their purpose.

As Pink pointed out, we will tend to have a lot of varied knowledge as long as it is somehow directly applicable to life (or we think it could be at some point).

My INTJ goes into his basement and attempts to make Damascus steel every so often. He's gotten close actually. My INTP couldn't be bothered to try but really likes the theory behind the attempt.

I would have shoved his ass off the road and continued on.

An INTJ has spoken. *zen chimes*

 

[Metamorphosis]

My INTJ goes into his basement and attempts to make Damascus steel every so often. He's gotten close actually. My INTP couldn't be bothered to try but really likes the theory behind the attempt.

That's awesome. I have a couple of Damascus steel switchblades and love them.

An INTJ has spoken. *zen chimes*

 

[JustDave]

That's awesome. I have a couple of Damascus steel switchblades and love them.

Most websites consider Darth Vader to be an ISTJ.

 

[MerkW]

An INTJ has spoken. *zen chimes*

This produces a rather intriguing image in my mind of a large gathering of people in some ancient oriental kingdom, all huddling around an INTJ meditating. They all ask the INTJ to enlighten them with his wisdom. One asks what would he do if the aforementioned situation in Guatemala occured (thus creating a massively anachronistic time-paradox [perhaps quantum tunneling was involved]), where the INTJ thus briefly interrupts his trance to ever-so tactlessly answer the question.

 

[heart]

I would have shoved his ass off the road and continued on. If I thought there was a chance of me being linked to it, I would leave the country with all possible haste..I was talking about the tribesman, not my friend.

Yes, my inferior Te would have voted for this as well. Get rid of the problem, hope for the best and haul ass!

Fi could spend the time after the rescue by Royal Navy worrying over the lack of respect the body...

 

[Metamorphosis]

Most websites consider Darth Vader to be an ISTJ.

Sorry. I meant to put this one.

...or perhaps...

 

[white]

I'd get rather annoyed at this so-called "friend" of mine, to being with. I will try to force my friend to go announce what happened to the tribesmen on his own. If he doesn't comply, I will knock him out with a shovel or some similar device, bring his unconscious body along with the corpse to the tribe settlement. I will attach a sticky note on either my friend's limp body, or the tribesman's corpse, explaining the situation. Then, I will wait a while, see if this friend makes it out alive or not. If he doesn't, and the tribesmen end up going after me, I will just get out of there as quickly as possible.

I am rather interested to hear you interpret this.

1. Your first instinct is annoyance: This is caused by the fact that that your friend did "wrong", and you're endangered (your locus is self preservation first, I'd guess?) as a result. You took fast measure of the consequences. Your focal point is the fact that you could be in danger. Your subsequent action is then triggered by the measurement of this input.

-> inputs first -> perceiving function first giving you that flight or fight instinct. I'd read that as Ni vs Ti.

2. You then proceed to start shaping your escape straightaway in a very strategic manner, I must say. You'd not hesitate to take harsh action too. You did not question the premise and the set-up, but started to work the system straightaway.

That's pretty Te to me, vs Ne. Ni-Te is action-focused. Ti-Ne is not as prone to action.

3. The fact that your friend has done wrong is the locus for you, isn't it? Fi takes offence.

I feel an INTP would've usually started to question what tribe is this, and how'd this ruling come into place, etc. They'd have came back with questions to clarify the setup actually, vs answer the question directly. Their focal point would've been how'd this come into place. What're the loopholes. Death as a consequence of inaction is not likely to come to mind till later. Also, friendship is a principle to most INTPs - they'd not abandon the friend, no matter what wrong they'd done. But they're likely to be conflicted with flying off and not confessing. So they'd not answer the question immediately, but waffle a bit and try poke out a loophole where they could gain absolution and save the friend too.

 

[MerkW]

Most websites consider Darth Vader to be an ISTJ.

May the websites be rightfully screwed. Besides, I personally believe that Darth Vader (NOT Skywalker) is an ISFJ, and before joining the Dark Side, was an ENTP.

 

[The Ü™]

Based off that, INTJ seems more fitting. But then again, I challenge the accuracy of your second paragraph. I always saw INTPs as the type least likely to want to "fit in" to any group, and rather remain a detached, idiosyncratic observer.

Certain schools, however, consider INTP to be Ni dominant; socionics, for example, and Jung himself would have probably said the INTP was Ni, because with Jung, P represents a dominant perceptual function that can either be I or E. ExxP has a dominant perception function that is extroverted. The IxxP has a dominant introverted perception function. The ExxJ has a dominant extroverted judgment function. The IxxJ has a dominant introverted judgment function.

The whole thing is just a theory anyway, so it could be right, it could be wrong, but above all, and not unlike religion, it is right to certain people and wrong to certain people. Now if you're trying to figure out your MBTI type, I think it's actually quite silly to think in terms of functional orders. An INTJ has, in order, Ni, Te, Fi, and Se. But what about an INTJ who has developed Ne, Ti, Fe, and Si? Jung said anyone can potentially develop all eight functions. So when you are confusing yourself with your preferred lifestyle (the structured J or the spontaneous P), then I would just focus on that dichotomy and nothing else.

May the websites be rightfully screwed. Besides, I personally believe that Darth Vader (NOT Skywalker) is an ISFJ, and before joining the Dark Side, was an ENTP.

I agree with you here, mostly. Although, I think Anakin in The Phantom Menace was an ENFP, Darth is ISTJ (ENFP shadow).

 

[Metamorphosis]

(your locus is self perservation first, I'd guess?)

That could account for some of our differences, too, since I am social.