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What type is Sy?

Moiety

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Okay, why have I been testing as NTP (mostly ENTP) so frequently lately. I try to be as truthful as possible.

The truth is that I don't seem to share so many classical ENFP characteristics with my supposed ENFP brethren. I'm don't ooze charisma. I almost never excited about anything. I'm not a natural flirt (I'm not great with girls). I'm not nice and make people feeling comfortable (often the opposite). I'm almost 24 and still live with my parents and never left my hometown (although I want to). I place a great amount of value in logic and making sound decisions and conclusions. I'm the first guy to point out a flaw in your logic in a conversation. I'm very contrarian. I'm not impulsive. I avoid making mistakes that might screw up my life, like the plague.


On the other hand, I believe values are very important for me. More so than to the majority of ENFPs in this forum it kinda seems. And I feel empathy towards others.


So wtf is the deal here anyway? Is empathy/values exclusive to ENFPs anyway? Can't I just be an ENTP with feelings? What say you guys?

Forget everything I just said and tell me, how do my posts sound to you. How would YOU type me?
 

Amargith

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ENFP. I've seen you around and wondered the same thing myself but..ENFP. I think you have a serious Te-stick up your ass at times and you use it as a bulldozer at times and I believe your Fi-values feed it, and since they are usually highly personal they could account for the atypical shit you listed. You don't flirt coz you're too busy getting things done(Te), but you moan more about values than *any* NTJ I've ever seen. Hell, many of those atypical things are things you actually moan about, such as flirting. You consider it unethical, as much as you seem to find compromise a betrayal of authenticity, and are therefore unwilling to accomodate others, be warm and friendly towards them, I'd say. I'd say you heavily rely on NeTe, fueled by very black and white Fi. Even this need to compare yourself to other ENFPs to fit into the box, is kinda inferior Si, I'd say..

But that's just me. *shrug*
 

Nicodemus

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a_serious_man14-012210.jpg
 

Moiety

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ENFP. I've seen you around and wondered the same thing myself but..ENFP. I think you have a serious Te-stick up your ass at times and you use it as a bulldozer at times and I believe your Fi-values feed it, and since they are usually highly personal they could account for the atypical shit you listed. You don't flirt coz you're too busy getting things done(Te), but you moan more about values than *any* NTJ I've ever seen. Hell, many of those atypical things are things you actually moan about, such as flirting. You consider it unethical, as much as you seem to find compromise a betrayal of authenticity, and are therefore unwilling to accomodate others, be warm and friendly towards them, I'd say. I'd say you heavily rely on NeTe, fueled by very black and white Fi. Even this need to compare yourself to other ENFPs to fit into the box, is kinda inferior Si, I'd say..

But that's just me. *shrug*

At bolded - getting shit done like what? I'm a bum.

You are painting me in a very close-minded way . I have no more problem accommodating others than you do. Certainly based on what you "know" of me I don't. I don't get hate PMs. Well, there was this one tantrum, but apart from that I think I get along just fine with posters around here.

As for moaning about values I dunno what qualifies my opinions as "moans" when compared to anybody else, nor do I exactly get the NTJ reference. I find compromise a betrayal of authenticity for myself, not for others. And aren't everyone's values highly personal? Isn't that the whole deal with Fi anyway?

I like the new Satine though. Certainly has no BS stick up her ass. Thanks for your opinion.



Lol, I saw the movie but I don't remember it too well to reel at the implication.
 

Giggly

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You seem pretty ENFP to me. I don't really know why. Except that ENFPs seem to come in a rainbow of colors and flavors.
 

Kasper

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So wtf is the deal here anyway? Is empathy/values exclusive to ENFPs anyway? Can't I just be an ENTP with feelings? What say you guys?

Not exclusive to ENFPs. I consider myself quite empathetic and like to think I have morals and values but I'm not comfortable comforting others I go straight to wanting to fix their problem thus avoiding emoting, and my morals/values are never set in stone.


Forget everything I just said and tell me, how do my posts sound to you. How would YOU type me?

Honestly not sure, Sy. You do seem to focus things through your own lense which I could associate with Fi but I've never had a strong ENFP read on you.
 

Kasper

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Except that ENFPs seem to come in a rainbow of colors and flavors.

I get that feel too. ENFPs have a lot of variety in how they present on the forum.
 

Amargith

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At bolded - getting shit done like what? I'm a bum.

You are painting me in a very close-minded way . I have no more problem accommodating others than you do. Certainly based on what you "know" of me I don't. I don't get hate PMs. Well, there was this one tantrum, but apart from that I think I get along just fine with posters around here.

As for moaning about values I dunno what qualifies my opinions as "moans" when compared to anybody else, nor do I exactly get the NTJ reference. I find compromise a betrayal of authenticity for myself, not for others. And aren't everyone's values highly personal? Isn't that the whole deal with Fi anyway?

I like the new Satine though. Certainly has no BS stick up her ass. Thanks for your opinion.

:D Relax dude, the only reason you got what you call 'bs-free Satine' is coz this thread called for it. I also assumed that you realized I don't know you that well as we don't exactly 'hang', so that you'd keep in mind that this was a crude and honest draft of how I perceive you. I'm just mentioning what I've seen so far. I'm fully aware though I'm missing the full context, since I never really had a one on one with you. And normally I refuse to give an opinion like this, since it's unfinished...unless the person has specifically asked for it ;)

What I meant with getting things done is also protecting what you consider important and standing up for your opinion, etc. And the moaning of values...I used moaning in a slightly playful way, but apparently that wasn't clear. NFs are known for caring about values and discussing them at length. You do that. And it's considered moaning and whining by some NTs on here :D
 

Moiety

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You seem pretty ENFP to me. I don't really know why. Except that ENFPs seem to come in a rainbow of colors and flavors.

Can I be gray?

Not exclusive to ENFPs. I consider myself quite empathetic and like to think I have morals and values but I'm not comfortable comforting others I go straight to wanting to fix their problem thus avoiding emoting, and my morals/values are never set in stone.

Yeah, me too (to the bolded). But my values are kind of set in stone. If I didn't have my values....how could I have a personality even? I think I'd be a hedonistic anarchistic nihilist...


Honestly not sure, Sy. You do seem to focus things through your own lense which I could associate with Fi but I've never had a strong ENFP read on you.

Could you clarify what you mean by focusing things through my own lens? That kinda goes against what I'm usually known for (looking at the other side, often NOT my own).

What I meant with getting things done is also protecting what you consider important and standing up for your opinion, etc. And the moaning of values...I used moaning in a slightly playful way, but apparently that wasn't clear. NFs are known for caring about values and discussing them at length. You do that. And it's considered moaning and whining by some NTs on here :D

You just made me wonder if there is such a thing as a person with too many opinions on too many things.... Maybe that's how I would describe myself. I very rarely not know what I think about something. It's almost impossible. I wonder if that is what makes me unlikable or seem judging to some people....I don't know what would be any healthier a stance though...I can't just erase my opinions from my head (specially since I pride myself on have very thorough lines of reasoning to get to them) and it's not like I don't know how to shut up about them...

It's funny you say that about NTs though, because IRL I've found them to be the most receptive to my thorough moral analysis of life. NFs find me too detached in my conclusions and tend to sound very SF compared to me (less abstract and theoretical and analytical and more driven by experience).
 

Amargith

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I too almost know always what I think about something unless I've really not given it thought before..unlikely though. And, when I was younger (not to sound cliche :D), I defended those views strongly, also in part becoz of the environment I was raised in. There's nothing wrong with that, but yeah, it can make you seem arrogant and judgemental, I've discovered. Over the years I've also discovered that things aren't as black and white, as much as I would sometimes want them to be. There's another side to the story, often, one which adds shades of grey. Overall, it's frustrating and tiresome to add those shades of grey in, but I've found them to be useful to navigate this world better. And, to give me a better understanding of [insert subject that I had a strong opinion on]. Its not that I change my opinion as such, just the vigour with which I defend it, and the absoluteness of it. I can see how it would not be the same for others, how different things are important to others and I can see the value in their pov. That automatically somewhat adds a couple of shades of grey to your own opinion. And no..it doesn't mean losing yourself, I've found it to enrich how I think, really.

*shrugs* That's just how I roll these days though.


As for the NT's, I can see them taking your bluntness the best, as they themselves probably feel relieved they can do the same around you :D
What I was referring to is that NTs usually have limited patience for discussing morals and ethics ;)
 

Kasper

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Yeah, me too (to the bolded). But my values are kind of set in stone. If I didn't have my values....how could I have a personality even? I think I'd be a hedonistic anarchistic nihilist...

Yeeeeeeeah. Rule out ENTP ;)

Seriously. Rule it out. :yes:

Everyone has values but not everyone has them set in stone, that's a beloved Fi thang. I have values, I like to think they're noble and strong but I would never ever consider them set in stone, there is always new information that could come along to shift my view, I never close my options that way. Values are a personal thing but I consider how they fit into society, not just my life.


Could you clarify what you mean by focusing things through my own lens? That kinda goes against what I'm usually known for (looking at the other side, often NOT my own).

Like you said above, by through your own lens I meant with your own values.


What I was referring to is that NTs usually have limited patience for discussing morals and ethics ;)

Happy to discuss them, get very annoyed when someone attempts to use their personal moral stance as universal. Get even more annoyed when people ignore objective facts and other relevant data because it goes against their subjective morals.

It's a biggy in terms of NTP v NFP.
 

Moiety

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There's another side to the story, often, one which adds shades of grey.

Whose?

Overall, it's frustrating and tiresome to add those shades of grey in, but I've found them to be useful to navigate this world better. And, to give me a better understanding of [insert subject that I had a strong opinion on]. Its not that I change my opinion as such, just the vigour with which I defend it, and the absoluteness of it. I can see how it would not be the same for others, how different things are important to others and I can see the value in their pov. That automatically somewhat adds a couple of shades of grey to your own opinion. And no..it doesn't mean losing yourself, I've found it to enrich how I think, really.

What do you mean exactly? To partially assimilated other people's views onto your own? I am aware different things are important to others...I can see a very subjective value in their POVs, depending on the case, yes...but so what? How does any of that relate to OUR point of view?

It's not losing myself to hear some other person's point of view. It's losing myself to change my POV because other people think differently and ridicule/attack/have contempt towards me.

I've experienced some minor betrayals of what I believed in in the past...and I was left empty and in a silent denial - "I've done nothing wrong since, hey, other people do it too". I mean, there is a thing called the law that already covers most crimes....if people have no strong opinions outside the law...what substance is there? Why care about anything in minute detail anyway?

*shrugs* That's just how I roll these days though.

Are you happier? Personally my values are the only thing I take pride in myself (since I have no accomplishments in life). To question the point of having them in the first place is a heavy blow in my sense of self. I'd feel empty otherwise. Like a robot.

As for the NT's, I can see them taking your bluntness the best, as they themselves probably feel relieved they can do the same around you :D
What I was referring to is that NTs usually have limited patience for discussing morals and ethics ;)

Yeah, NTs tend to not be pansies and it is refreshing. But it still takes a certain type of NT to care about ethics and morals yes.
 

Moiety

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Yeeeeeeeah. Rule out ENTP ;)

Seriously. Rule it out. :yes:

Everyone has values but not everyone has them set in stone, that's a beloved Fi thang. I have values, I like to think they're noble and strong but I would never ever consider them set in stone, there is always new information that could come along to shift my view, I never close my options that way. Values are a personal thing but I consider how they fit into society, not just my life..


Well to be perfectly honest I'm exaggerating here. There are a few scenarios where they are pretty much set in stone. I'm not the kind of person to ignore new data (they weren't written in stone and sat there for thousands of years...it's more like I wrote them with a pen and over time the ink gets faint and write them again incorporating more and more data and reasons).

But why do you think I so consistently type NTP then? I do believe I have Ti according to the descriptions (don't care what people say about NeFiTeSi's not being able to use Ti) and I think I never knew myself as better as I now know. I've taken like 9 different tests.
 

Lady_X

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like i've said before....a type 8 enfp.
 

Lady_X

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by unhealthy do you mean that you feel depressed by the rigidity of your values?

would you say that by nature type 8 is more rigid? more te? more structured and absolute? perhaps you just structure your values in such a way that makes you come off differently than other enfps that take a more free flowing stance... ??
 

Kasper

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Well to be perfectly honest I'm exaggerating here. There are a few scenarios where they are pretty much set in stone. I'm not the kind of person to ignore new data (they weren't written in stone and sat there for thousands of years...it's more like I wrote them with a pen and over time the ink gets faint and write them again incorporating more and more data and reasons).

That's definitely stronger than how I'd describe myself when it comes to ethics. Either you've seen yourself as ENFP for so long you expect that's how you should be, or you really are in which case ENTP is pretty unlikely.

Bendable morals seems to be a common ENTP thing, I don't mean that in a bad way, just flexible way, and using Fe to find at common interests at the expense of individuals.


But why do you think I so consistently type NTP then? I do believe I have Ti according to the descriptions (don't care what people say about NeFiTeSi's not being able to use Ti) and I think I never knew myself as better as I now know. I've taken like 9 different tests.

Tests are crap? Seriously I consistently type as INTP. In fact I'm more likely to get a reading of xNFP than ENTP. Plus if you think you have Ti the test is highly likely to agree with you... it's simply calculating your answers.
 

Amargith

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Whose?



What do you mean exactly? To partially assimilated other people's views onto your own? I am aware different things are important to others...I can see a very subjective value in their POVs, depending on the case, yes...but so what? How does any of that relate to OUR point of view?

It's not losing myself to hear some other person's point of view. It's losing myself to change my POV because other people think differently and ridicule/attack/have contempt towards me.

I've experienced some minor betrayals of what I believed in in the past...and I was left empty and in a silent denial - "I've done nothing wrong since, hey, other people do it too". I mean, there is a thing called the law that already covers most crimes....if people have no strong opinions outside the law...what substance is there? Why care about anything in minute detail anyway?



Are you happier? Personally my values are the only thing I take pride in myself (since I have no accomplishments in life). To question the point of having them in the first place is a heavy blow in my sense of self. I'd feel empty otherwise. Like a robot.



Yeah, NTs tend to not be pansies and it is refreshing. But it still takes a certain type of NT to care about ethics and morals yes.


Whose? other people's :)
The thing is, I just consider it learning to see the world from all angles. Things that I hadn't even considered. Just becoz I strongly feel about something, doesn't mean I should be deaf to new info or new insights. And yes, I do assimilate those in there, though often I'll adjust them according to how *I* feel about those new insights, to then add to my repertoire :)

And yeah..since I do that, I feel a lot more at peace and happier. Before I fought a lot with myself and others which was exhausting and draining. I find that understanding where they're coming from, is way less draining. There are still pure values I'll always adhere to, but now I have a bufferzone...I can see that exercising those values that black and white in the reality we live in is..well, unrealistic. Or rather, getting frustrated at the world not matching the world you envision, according to your values, is pointless. You can inspire people to go the way you consider to be right, but I often find that those same people inspire me back with perspectives I'd never considered before...which leads to those shades of grey I was talking about :)

I too however cannot live without my values, and ignoring them, just for the sake of reality, is like dying. It's like having that lifeforce burn out inside of you..like becoming a robot, as you said. So I do understand that. I just have learned to look at the things that aren't at first glance in agreeance with my values with a genuine curiosity of how it works, *before* I write it off. Coz often there's hidden gems in there, that do feel right to me, and that I can use to reinterpret the perspective I was handed, allowing me to further integrate my values into reality and vice versa :)
 

Giggly

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Can I be gray?

Sure, why not?

Also, if you feel that camaraderie type of feeling most with NTs, there's nothing wrong with that. You would not be the first person in any of the temperaments to feel more drawn to and comfortable around a different temperament than your own.
 

Moiety

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by unhealthy do you mean that you feel depressed by the rigidity of your values?

would you say that by nature type 8 is more rigid? more te? more structured and absolute? perhaps you just structure your values in such a way that makes you come off differently than other enfps that take a more free flowing stance... ??

Rigid? I never saw myself as rigid at all. I don't go out there forcing people to do things the way I think they should or anything.

It just seems ENFPs were geared to be 7s. And there are so few ENFPs 8 that maybe it's just not natural and creates mental dissonance.

I don't think Te makes my values more absolute. Values are in themselves absolutes (this is wrong, this is right). I do convey them in a Te manner though possibly. I communicate Fi values in Te manner.

Instead of saying "please don't hurt the dog" I'll say "hey dick head, you wanna get your ass kicked?!". A person would then focus on the use of expressions like "dick head" and showing aggressiveness and label me as a dick. That's the story of my life.

And you ask : why then, don't you change the way how you deliver the message? The answer is simple...life has taught me (and that is what enneagram is all about I guess) that people will ignore things if you are too nice. You need to show them there are consequences to being bad. Hint at it anyway. I can pride myself on having always been a good person according to my standards and of most people around me.

Whose? other people's :)
The thing is, I just consider it learning to see the world from all angles. Things that I hadn't even considered. Just becoz I strongly feel about something, doesn't mean I should be deaf to new info or new insights. And yes, I do assimilate those in there, though often I'll adjust them according to how *I* feel about those new insights, to then add to my repertoire :)....

Well then you do nothing different compared to what I do. I don't know how I come across on this forum...but I'm not a butthurt FP that doesn't listen to what other people have to say. People compliment me on my listening and understanding actually.

I'm just saying, I guess, that deep down...it takes a lot to change the logic of how I see things. It takes a very intelligent and wise person...and even then, there are things that just don't make sense to me.

That's only because I spent my whole life philosophizing with myself and others to arrive to these conclusions and values. I read books, I chat with people....so I always have a logical line of reasoning to justify my values. Or I try to. I'm always looking to be proven "wrong" though. I want to be happy...if my values don't make me and other people happy...then there is no point to them.

If there is one thing that is more accurate than arrogant or judgmental for me...it's lacking faith that others put as much thought as I do into their opinions. I don't just believe in it though...it seems I'm constantly proved right which in turn makes feel more lonely and bitter and adamant about being aggressive with people and urging them to think and to stop hurting each other etc. Murder and rape are covered by law...so I try to go deeper...you could call me morally pedantic I guess.

Trust me, I'd love to know how to not be though. It doesn't bring me any joy...and in my self-importance I guess it makes me think of that phrase "ignorance is bliss". It's a burden trying and being morally perfect. But what is the choice? How can I want an ideal world if I don't try being ideal myself?


lol, I just noticed I went on a ramble there. I'll stop now.

Sure, why not?

Also, if you feel that camaraderie type of feeling most with NTs, there's nothing wrong with that. You would not be the first person in any of the temperaments to feel more drawn to and comfortable around a different temperament than your own.

The comforting part with NTs is that they don't tend to hide behind subjectiveness as much. Which ironically seems a lot more about sharing and communicating and living harmoniously as a group then "don't judge me" or "everyone has their opinions". No shit everyone has their opinions! Then go be a hermit somewhere else if you don't care about the opinions of other people around you. If you don't care about bettering ourselves as a group. NTs don't shy away from debate, they believe in having their opinions put to the test.

As much as an individualist as I am and even though I have tremendous respect for individuality....I think the point of individuality is defeated if everyone is clouded by fear of being judged and doesn't like to communicate and share their insights with others. The individual often just wants to be understood, but he/she also has to want to make others understand.

Otherwise what's the fucking point?!



Rambling again, sorry :p
 
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