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Thread: INFJ or INTJ?

  1. #1
    Member IntrovertedThinker's Avatar
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    Jun 2010

    Default INFJ or INTJ?

    I'm an INTP, but I was wondering if someone with a higher knowledge of MBTI could help me with someone else's type, because it's been causing both of us a bit of grief.

    My friend tested INFJ her first time, two years ago. And most of the time, she usually gets INFJ (although she's also tested INTJ on and off).

    However, every time she reads an INFJ description, she never fully relates to every aspect of the description. More specifically, she doesn't relate to the Fe aspect of the INFJ description, because she doesn't really feel as though she "must" take care of others, or that she really cares to concern herself with others all that much. Mostly, she's more self-involved, although she is by no means cold, but more warm (she just comes off a bit more reserved and aloof at times, like she's hiding away, but not because she's mean).

    So, she started questioning her true type, as anyone would, for perhaps she was mistyped, as tends to happen often. Thus, she started wondering if she was INFJ or INTJ (considering she tends to get INTJ a bit of the time). So she began taking more tests to ascertain her true type. Finally, to try to settle the matter, she took the MMDI, which shows the ordering of your cognitive functions and shows what types you are most likely to relate with.

    The results were the following:

    Ni > Fi > Te > Ti > Ne > Si > Fe > Se

    On the test, she received INFJ (or perhaps INTJ). The difference between the two was 1%. However, if you really look at the ordering of these functions, those which are usually native to the INFJ (Fe, Ti, and Se) tend to be lower than those which are native to the INTJ (Fi and Te). And oddly, her Ne is somewhat developed.

    Thus, it comes down to it. Based on the ordering of these functions, what conclusions can most reasonably be drawn? Is she—functionally—more INFJ or INTJ? Based on our research, we've come to think that she is an INTJ with a highly developed Fi, because her highest functions are Ni, Fi, and Te, with the INFJ functions being lower (Ti and Fe, although they are there).

  2. #2
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Nov 2008
    9w8 sx/sp
    SEE Fi


    Looks like INTJ results to me.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  3. #3
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    May 2009


    Looks like INTJ to me too. A lot of female Thinkers test as Feelers, being influenced by social pressure for women to be feel-y.

    However, keep in mind that tests aren't reliable *at all*, I always get higher Fi than Fe, which is not true for INFJs.

    Does she relate to the INTJ profiles?

  4. #4
    Member IntrovertedThinker's Avatar
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    Jun 2010


    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    Looks like INTJ to me too. A lot of female Thinkers test as Feelers, being influenced by social pressure for women to be feel-y.

    However, keep in mind that tests aren't reliable *at all*, I always get higher Fi than Fe, which is not true for INFJs.

    Does she relate to the INTJ profiles?
    Well, let's put it like this: INFJ and INTJ basically share many aspects of their personality in common already. Both are Introverted, Intuitive, and Judging. Both are directed by Introverted Intuition. Thus, as children, before a preference for Thinking or Feeling may have developed, these two types are essentially almost identical. Hence, "THE INJ CHILD." As a result, she definitely relate to the description of INJ children. Thus, this would explain why she "mostly" relates to the INFJ profile. However, she never really related with the entire Fe aspect of INFJ profiles.

    Specific statements such as the following don't resonate with her well:

    *derive satisfaction from helping others
    *these traits tend to act as a "tell me what's wrong" sign on their forehead
    *desire to contribute to the welfare of others and genuinely enjoy helping their companions
    *creative nurturers
    *INFJs want a deep connections with other people
    *INFJs gain the most satisfaction from their work when they can turn their vision into reality, creating constructive change for other people

    As you can see, it's the Fe aspect of INFJs which she doesn't really feel she can relate with. Although, if she were to help solve a problem or enter the world of science, or construct some kind of system, she says that she partly intends to help others, although very indirectly. The fact that a new system might help people is only a secondary drive for her, rather than a primary one. Instead, she's driven to put her mind to systems and problems to find solutions almost instinctively, regardless of whether or not it will help people. But if it does help people, it's a plus.

    Additionally, I tend to generate tons of theories and ideas for improvement, as INTPs tend to do. So I'm usually attempting to explain my ideas to her (which is difficult, because she doesn't have a lot of Ne and her Te instinct to critique ideas according to external applicability tends to make it hard to explain how an idea will work, which I intuitively understand will work, although I can't usually ever find the words or thoughts to explain my ideas in physically applicable terms). However, when I do explain my ideas to her in some sufficient manner, she wants to understand it more thoroughly. She once tried to work out one of my thoughts, by creating a loose system for it, working out the details and trying to apply it realistically somehow, which is what INTJ are said to do. Also, I once attempted to explain a theory of perception which she immediately drew a diagram for, to help understand it in more detail. I would think that is an INTJ trait, as well.

    She tends to be warm and friendly, albeit a bit aloof and reserved at times, needing alone time and space (just as myself). And she seems to have a very complicated inner world, where abstractions and deep Ni workings are going on. She has a fairly sharp mind, which she has no problem applying to things like brain teasers and whatnot, for fun. While watching a movie, she tends to enjoy attempting to figure out where the movie will go, and often times she can actually predict a plot far in advance. Movies like The Unusual Suspects, or any other typical type of Mystery/Thriller tends to rile her up and get her really excited, as she wants to figure a plot out, in all its intricacies and complexity. Traditionally, this is a trait of INTJs. Although, she also enjoys more abstract and poetic movies with a lot of symbolism and metaphors, such as Aronofsky's The Fountain (which we both enjoyed thoroughly). It was highly surreal and artistic—stimulating the "right brain," as it were. Additionally, she does enjoy romantic movies, as well. Movies like Immortal Beloved (which is about Beethoven's life and is very emotional).

    Thus, she's more "cerebral" and "system-oriented" than you'd expect from an INFJ. And to get back to what I was saying earlier about INTJ and INFJs sharing traits, she relates to most aspect of both type descriptions (just not the Fe aspect of INFJs). And when it comes to INTJ, she relates to "most" of the type description, except certain aspects.

    Specific statements like the following might not sit well with her:

    *They may not want to bother with people who they do not perceive to be their intellectual equals. (while she does prefer to be around intelligent people, she doesn't really entirely discriminate against people based on intelligence, as many INTJs probably would)

    *Often intellectual, they enjoy analysis and complex problem-solving, and are much less comfortable with the illogical and unpredictable nature of other people and their emotions. (She isn't at all "overly intellectual," although she does enjoy solving problems and analyzing things, and she isn't entirely uncomfortable with the emotional nature of people, or emotions in general)

    In essence, her thinking nature isn't entirely developed or potent, albeit she 'can' think analytically.

    Here are few traits which do fit with her, though:

    *INTJs are analytical problem-solvers, eager to improve systems and processes with their innovative ideas. (She enjoys systems and attempting to devise innovative ideas, for sure)

    *INTJs have a talent for seeing possibilities for improvement, whether at work, at home, or in themselves. (She is constantly attempting to improve things, and she can't help but criticize and deconstruct ideas and arguments. For instance, she'll point out flaws in movies and say, "The director/screenwriter could've done a better job by doing A, B, C, ect." And when we took psychology in college, she was capable of instantly judging if a theory was scientifically valid, saying things like, "Without reliability, how can this theory be trusted?" or "This is a weak theory, because A, B, C" Additionally, she enjoys self-improvement almost habitually. She's constantly attempting to work on making herself better somehow)

    *They have a hunger for knowledge and strive to constantly increase their competence (She's been learning voraciously lately, and it seems to be in her natural inclination to constantly research, constantly seek new information, facts, and interesting ideas, especially in areas she enjoys, such as theoretical physics or philosophy.)

    *Popular hobbies for the INTJ include reading, cultural events, taking classes, appreciating art, computers and video games, and independent sports such as swimming, backpacking, or running marathons. (She is always reading. It's one of the main things she enjoys doing, along with writing. Yet, her writing tends to focus on relationships (embedded with philosophy). Screen writer is one of her passions, and she wants to learn movie directing one day. She loves taking courses and learning, and she thoroughly enjoys video games. Do INFJs enjoy video games often?)

    She also completely loves watching Carl Sagan's videos of the Cosmos (who is usually typed as INTJ). She also considered Eisenhower to be one of her favorite presidents (who is usually considered INTJ). And she has a male friend we both knew in high school who is INTJ. They still talk over the internet, and she considers him one of the few persons she's ever been able to relate with well. Supposedly, they understand each other and usually think alike.

    She also relates to the independent nature of the INTJ. As a child and adolescent, she said she always had a hunger for independence (which she was never given). She desired to go places and do interesting things, but her family always chained her to the house. Additionally, she grew up in a household of S types, so her Intuition was never allowed to thrive. She had to keep it all to herself most of the time, and she couldn't intellectually engage with her simple family, as they simply weren't the thinking type. So she often had to avoid intelligent communication with them. Also, she was probably, as most females are, expected to develop emotion over thinking. Her grandma actually told her once (which not uncommon at all) "You don't want to be smart, guys don't like that."

    Also, as is said of INTJs, she has a pretty quick and sharp mind.

    So, as you can see, she doesn't relate well at all with the Fe aspect of the INFJ, but tends to relate more with the INTJ descriptions, although she isn't like me. I'm INTP, and I'm like the typical stereotypical description of an INT. We're often arrogant and cocky, extremely logical and unemotional, mean and insensitive, rough and tough, like walking robots. And our intellectual nature tends to be extremely developed, so that we come off very smart and intelligent. Yet, she's not like that. She's warm and emotional; she hates conflict; she dislikes judgmental or arrogant people; she's logical, but not overly logical; she can be both sensitive or insensitive, depending on what mood she may be in; and she's both tough and gentle, depending on the situation or time.

    So, would she be more INTJ or INFJ? I'm thinking, based on what I've said, and what I know of her, that she's more of an INTJ. However, how common is it for an INTJ to have such a developed Fi??? Could an INTP, for example, have an extremely developed Si?

  5. #5
    Let Go Of Your Team Zarathustra's Avatar
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    Oct 2009


    Quote Originally Posted by IntrovertedThinker View Post
    So, would she be more INTJ or INFJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by IntrovertedThinker View Post
    I'm thinking, based on what I've said, and what I know of her, that she's more of an INTJ.

    Quote Originally Posted by IntrovertedThinker View Post
    However, how common is it for an INTJ to have such a developed Fi???
    It's not that uncommon.

    My Fi is about even with my Te, maybe even a little stronger.

    The normal MBTI functional ordering is not dependable: it's merely a theoretical starting point.

    One reason you sometimes see the theoretical tertiary function more developed than the theoretical auxiliary function is the dom loop (for INTJs: Ni+Fi).

    The Ni+Fi loop is a primary cognitive pathway for many INTJs; it feels comfortable to them, because both functions are introverted; they get to just stay introverted.

    If the INTJ doesn't develop their extraversion enough, relative to the amount that they develop their Fi (which they often develop via the aforementioned Ni+Fi loop), then their Fi might be stronger than their Te. Many INTJs don't develop their extraversion very well, which is why Fi>Te is not that uncommon.

    Note: there are also many INTJs who seem to not develop their Fi much at all. They often: 1) remain mostly in their Ni, with a small amount of Te to go along with it; 2) learn to develop their Te, but not their Fi much at all; 3) seemingly get into an Ni+Ti loop, rather than an Ni+Fi loop, with some amount of Te and/or Ne also thrown into the mix.

    Development of Ti and Ne are not uncommon in INTJs, so don't let that part fool you.

    Amongst most types, whatever their top two function-attitudes theoretically are, you often see they have a preference for the same functions, but with the opposite attitudes, in their top 4-5 functional preferences.

    Quote Originally Posted by IntrovertedThinker View Post
    Could an INTP, for example, have an extremely developed Si?

    Same reason as mentioned above.

    INTPs' dom loop is a Ti+Si loop.
    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

  6. #6
    eh cascadeco's Avatar
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    Oct 2007
    4 sp


    Hmm. Based on all of the above, I think now's almost the time for me to remove my type and become typeless.


    To the OP - to answer your question, functionally she seems to be INTJ. As others have mentioned, the fact that Fi is stronger than Te according to the test is not a big deal.

    But I don't think anything mentioned precludes an INFJ who relies heavily on Ti and short-circuits Fe to a degree. In addition, Fe in an INFJ is not going to be as 'nurture-y' as that found in an SFJ, at least in the same manner. Also, enneagram. Her enneagram could have a large bearing on the 'flavor' of whatever type she is.
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