What type is Zarathustra? :)

[ragashree]

^ Excellent piece of disambiguation, Lethe

 

[Metamorphosis]

You seem like an INTJ in your thought processes (and use of Alex Grey's art). I haven't really gotten to know any ENTJs in the time that I have known MBTI well, though.

I'm curious if you grew up in an environment where your aggressiveness would have been allowed or encouraged or if you have generally been in a position of security (physically, socially, economically).

 

[SillySapienne]

I'm curious if you grew up in an environment where your aggressiveness would have been allowed or encouraged or if you have generally been in a position of security (physically, socially, economically).

I find an opposite correlation, if I find any correlation at all.

Aggression comes from feeling a lack of power and therefore securing/defending it, no?

 

[SillySapienne]

Also, I was raised privileged and I was raised with uber-privileged peers.

Aggression was never viewed as a positive thing in my "world".

And, it was rarely, if ever, exhibited.

Being intellectually curious, cautious, and inquisitive were salient tenets taught and displayed by the kids I grew up with.

So, from my, perhaps myopic, point of view, aggression has little to do with privilege. :/

 

[ragashree]

I find an opposite correlation, if I find any correlation at all.

Aggression comes from feeling a lack of power and therefore securing/defending it, no?

Yes, but there's another potential reason; a learned sense of entitlement, and concomitant lack of consequence for aggressive actions. The person who acts like this has never really learned to modulate aggressive impulses, because there is little need to when they have not been chastised, and have always got what they want by behaving in this way.

Also, I was raised privileged and I was raised with uber-privileged peers.

Aggression was never viewed as a positive thing in my "world".

And, it was rarely, if ever, exhibited.

Being intellectually curious, cautious, and inquisitive were salient tenets taught and displayed by the kids I grew up with.

So, from my, perhaps myopic, point of view, aggression has little to do with privilege. :/

I honestly think this is a cultural thing more than anything, and there's more than one subculture of privilege. Are you talking about people whose parents were high achievers who valued education, intellectual development, and perhaps the work ethic, etc? Or those whose privilege came from inherited money and high social status in their communities?

 

[Zarathustra]

Perhaps I'm a bit of an individualist, but I don't think the people who I grew up with exhibit this same trait...

(although fiery, tooth-and-nail, grind-it-out, no-holds-barred debate was a significant feature of my childhood friends' and my playtime.)

(I was raised in the G.A.T.E. [Gifted and Talented Education] program in the California Public School System.)

(There was always an air of proving your intelligence over others, particularly among the boys.)

But I am considered the abrasive asshole amongst my groups of friends (from childhood friends, to college friends, to post-college friends).

 

[SillySapienne]

Sorry for the multi-posts.

But, I have definitely found Js to be more competitive than Ps, or, at the very least, more overtly so.



I can't STAND aggressive behavior, it's reprehensible in my books.

One can be passionate without being aggressive.

One can be competitive without being aggressive.

One can get what they want without having to stoop to using brute force.

That's a noble way to "win" exhausting the competition with your bulldozing aggression. :rolli:

I've had plenty of experience with aggressive behavior, thanks to my unhealthy ESTJ sister.

She's a selfish female dog.



Insecure, ridiculously competitive, selfish to the extreme, and almost completely devoid of emotional intelligence and self-awareness.

Where was I going with this, oh yeah!

Healthy Te ASSERTS itself.

Unhealthy Te bulldozes.

 

[ragashree]

Perhaps I'm a bit of an individualist, but I don't think the people who I grew up with exhibit this same trait...

I am considered the abrasive asshole amongst my groups of friends (from childhood friends, to college friends, to post-college friends).

Seems like you still HAVE groups of friends, however... so your abrasiveness must not be enough to alienate them completely! Or is it only some who are bothered by it?

 

[SillySapienne]

Yes, but there's another potential reason; a learned sense of entitlement, and concomitant lack of consequence for aggressive actions. The person who acts like this has never really learned to modulate aggressive impulses, because there is little need to when they have not been chastised, and have always got what they want by behaving in this way.

So you've met my sister.

I honestly think this is a cultural thing more than anything, and there's more than one subculture of privilege. Are you talking about people whose parents were high achievers who valued education, intellectual development, and perhaps the work ethic, etc? Or those whose privilege came from inherited money and high social status in their communities?

Well, both, but primarily the former not the latter.

I was raised amongst s

 

[SillySapienne]

Perhaps I'm a bit of an individualist, but I don't think the people who I grew up with exhibit this same trait...

(although fiery, tooth-and-nail, grind-it-out, no-holds-barred debate was a significant feature of my childhood friends' and my playtime.)

(I was raised in the G.A.T.E. [Gifted and Talented Education] program in the California Public School System.)

(There was always an air of proving your intelligence over others, particularly among the boys.)

I am considered the abrasive asshole amongst my groups of friends (from childhood friends, to college friends, to post-college friends).

He and I were raised differently.



I was private schooled and was primarily surrounded by Jewish liberal, intellectuals.

I was in Speech and Debate, I was the president of my high school's JSA chapter, and I won the SoCal regional award/gavel for best speaker in my non-impromptu debate.

The debate I love is one that reveals a better understanding to all parties involved, no personal attacks, just thoughts spoken, and points negated when they are in fact false and can be proven so.

But, I only debate when I believe in what I am debating, I will always concede when I learn that I was wrong in a previously held belief.

And, I cannot STAND those who debate with the intention to WIN.

We engage in discourse and debate to LEARN, and GROW, not win.

 

[Zarathustra]

Seems like you still HAVE groups of friends, however... so your abrasiveness must not be enough to alienate them completely! Or is it only some who are bothered by it?

I have a large and diverse group of friends, many of whom I've known most of my life...

Most people accept it as part of the package.

Most people don't deny that I tend to be right - they just think I'm an asshole.

Albeit a likeable one, for the most part... (a la Walter Sobchak)

 

[Zarathustra]

I was private schooled and was primarily surrounded by Jewish liberal, intellectuals.

In other words, she was surrounded by giant douchebags.

 

[Qre:us]

He and I were raised differently.



I was private schooled and was primarily surrounded by Jewish liberal, intellectuals.

I was in Speech and Debate, I was the president of my high school's JSA chapter, and I won the SoCal regional award/gavel for best speaker in my non-impromptu debate.

The debate I love is one that reveals a better understanding to all parties involved, no personal attacks, just thoughts spoken, and points negated when they are in fact false and can be proven so.

But, I only debate when I believe in what I am debating, I will always concede when I learn that I was wrong in a previously held belief.

And, I cannot STAND those who debate with the intention to WIN.

We engage in discourse and debate to LEARN, and GROW, not win.

I think you are ENFP.

 

[SillySapienne]

(I was raised in the G.A.T.E. [Gifted and Talented Education] program in the California Public School System.)

(There was always an air of proving your intelligence over others, particularly among the boys.)

But I am considered the abrasive asshole amongst my groups of friends (from childhood friends, to college friends, to post-college friends).

Hahahahaaa, my ex Dana was in GATE, and he went to UCLA, but he sure as shit wasn't intellectually competitive, not at all.

He was an F, though.

 

[Night]

Why is this thread still active?

I already voted. Case closed.

 

[SillySapienne]

I have a large and diverse group of friends, many of whom I've known most of my life...

Most people accept it as part of the package.

Most people don't deny that I tend to be right - they just think I'm an asshole.

Albeit a likeable one, for the most part... (a la Walter Sobchak)

A likeable asshole, kinda reminds me of a lickable one...

Anyhow, two questions for ya.

One: Do you think you are more cocky than confident?

Two: What are your thoughts on humility, especially intellectual humility.

In other words, she was surrounded by giant douchebags.

My father was a Libertarian giant douchebag, but other than him, I was surrounded, more or less, by wonderful people.

I feel blessed for having the opportunity to have such an ideal, dare I say Utopian, educational upbringing.



I miss that environment. :sad:

So many diversely intelligent blokes and blokettes.

Such a culture clash/learning experience/slap in the face when I left my insulated world and left for college in Boulder.

I had no idea people were that stupid, I honestly didn't.

 

[garbage]

Why is this thread still active?

I already voted. Case closed.

now, Night, that's no way to go

wait until everyone votes the same way as you do

then you can be all "yeah! look it, when i said I was right,"


that plan requires the thread to be open, however

 

[SillySapienne]

I think you are ENFP.

So do I.

 

[Zarathustra]

K my real vote, rather than silly posts:

ENTJ, close on the E / I, close on the S / N.

I find this conclusion funny, as N is the one quality that the tests say I most strongly identify with (~70%).

In college, I remember my favorite professor writing on one of my papers, "You certainly have a predilection for abstract thinking."

And, lastly, what does S/N balance even mean, necessarily?

- That, if I were an Ni-dom, that I'd also be close to being an Si-dom?
- Or that, if I'm an Ni-dom, that might Se-inferior is well-developed?

It could really be looked at either way...

As for my E/I balance: on the tests it always come out about 50/50, but I've never gone over 50% extroversion, while I generally do go over 50% for introversion.

 

[ragashree]

Perhaps I'm a bit of an individualist, but I don't think the people who I grew up with exhibit this same trait...

(although fiery, tooth-and-nail, grind-it-out, no-holds-barred debate was a significant feature of my childhood friends' and my playtime.)

(I was raised in the G.A.T.E. [Gifted and Talented Education] program in the California Public School System.)

(There was always an air of proving your intelligence over others, particularly among the boys.)

That does actually make a LOT of sense. Intelletctual competitiveness sounds like it was the social norm (as one would expect in such a situation really).

He and I were raised differently.



I was private schooled and was primarily surrounded by Jewish liberal, intellectuals.

Ha, yes, I would expect intellectual qualities and tolerance of others to be encouraged in those circumstances then. Now, if on the other hand you'd grown up among a different subset of privilege, such as "WASP" kids with parents in the business world and giant trust funds...?