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....I'm sorry I have to do this....INTJ or INFJ?

highlander

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I don't believe I'm a Si dom because it's a function I really don't care to use. I don't look to the past and compare to the present. I'm always looking for new experiences and looking towards the future.
OK - so Si definitely is not in your top two then.

Fi dominant? Well....I picture a Fi dominant person as someone who always knows how they are feeling immediately and they follow their heart more than anything. I try to make the 'logical' choice when it involves my feelings, if that makes sense? It's not out of the question, I suppose.

Fe dominant? Quite frankly, I don't feel like I understand Fe enough to make a decision on this one. Fe in the dominant role tends to want to take care of people to the detriment of the self, sometimes. I ...feel like everyone should be capable of living a full and prosperous life, by themselves. With that being said, I'll help my friends and family, I'll even take care of them. But I would only do this for a select few individuals, my family (and I consider family to be of the people I choose to be close to me, not blood necessarily. Although there is a high correlation.) and I'm not sure if that has anything to do with type. Fe also has expectations about how people should act, I don't really. I know how I should act. If people are rude, that's life, if they cross me, I'll likely ignore them or cuss them out. I don't really 'care' about how people act, they can do what they want, but I am also aware about how people view actions. With that being said, I do care a bit about how people view me.
Honestly, the more you write, the more it seems you prefer Fi over Fe, which is an important data point.

Ti dominant? I'm just...not that analytical. I've had discussion with many INTPs/ENTPs and my thought patterns just seem...different. I try to focus on the big picture and they'll focus on the details. Together, we're great but when we're arguing with each other, it can tend to drag on a while. The INTP will apply his details to a real world large model and I will apply my top down view with actual concrete details.
Haha. Understand what you mean there.

Se dominant? I'm not all that dexterous, I love feeling sensations and such, but I don't think I live purely for the moment.

Te dominant: I've seen ENTJs. I just know! lol
OK

Ne dominant: I can have a very one track mind at times. Once I get an idea something is right, I'll think about other possibilities but I'll likely stick to the one that I 'jumped" too. That's not the behavior of a Ne dominant person.
That does sound like a preference for something else over Ne (maybe Ni)

Te = Contingency planning/Practical application
Ti = Detail oriented/Seeking for the most correct answer?

And now to this.

Te "Focuses on the objective external world by instituting systems of organization and assigning all information to a place within an appropriate system based upon quantifiable comparison. Te wants to evaluate, decide, and complete a task using a system of logical binary judgments" (Hartzler)

Ti "focuses on the subjective world of underlying principles and truths by creating original systems and categories and assigning information to a place within the appropriate framework based on logical analysis; Ti wants to attain internal precision through logical evaluation and decision making" (Hartzler)

Based on that description, you think you prefer Te over Ti?
 

Serge

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Thanks for indulging me on this. :)

Does it look something like this?

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/1154299-post34.html

Is this something that happens all the time? Every day?

Why do you feel this function, amongst all of them, is the most dominant for you?

I believe so. Especially the changing the theme, context, and viewing things through different lenses. Another Ni thing I do heavily is that I'll see myself HOW I want to be and, as such, change myself in the present to fit my future mold.

Define "Practical". All things are done out of "practicality", the only differences are "values". Me not doing anything right now is "practical" to me.

Fe is also "practical" application. The difference is that it is more in tune with environmental value than Te. Te relies on Fi.



That definitely sounds Fi. But I'm thinking this can also be Ti? As in, "principles"?

Practical as in: Most time saved, most resources saved, fulfilling. Emotional state taken care of (I can't do something that'll send me into a state of emotional disarray.) There are lines I won't cross. I like knowing the 1% chance of something happening, but I will definitely rely on the 99% chance as the 'rule' so to speak.

Another two questions might help.

1. Of those people you greatly admire, what are the top five qualities those individuals have that caused you to admire them?

2. Of those people you can't stand, what are the five qualities or characteristics that cause you to not like them?


1. I...don't admire anyone, actually. I really can't think of someone who I was so stellarly impressed. But, I'm impressed with Dr. Michio Kaku

1. He's obviously intelligent.
2. He has the ability to make even the most astounding and complex physics simple.
3. He has a way of connecting with people, even about something completely terrifying.
4. He doesn't have an arrogant air of intellectuality around him.
5. He's surprisingly respectful from what I've read.

2.

1. I don't like hypocrites, I despise when people tell other people not to do something and yet do it themselves.
2. People who are selfish and judgemental. I dislike people who feel the need to be the center of attention and make sure people pay attention to them just so they can feel good about themselves. I also don't like people who are so selfish that they are critical of others who don't follow 'their' rules.
3. People who are overtly emotional and think that can be a good substitute for logic.
4. People who are overtly logical and think that can be a good substitute for emotion.
5. People who are insensitive for various reasons. Especially people who don't like hanging around the poor or disabled because they are used to high class society.
6. Here's a friend one from my cousin "People who talk excessively"
OK - so Si definitely is not in your top two then.


Honestly, the more you write, the more it seems you prefer Fi over Fe, which is an important data point.


Haha. Understand what you mean there.


OK


That does sound like a preference for something else over Ne (maybe Ni)



And now to this.

Te "Focuses on the objective external world by instituting systems of organization and assigning all information to a place within an appropriate system based upon quantifiable comparison. Te wants to evaluate, decide, and complete a task using a system of logical binary judgments" (Hartzler)

Ti "focuses on the subjective world of underlying principles and truths by creating original systems and categories and assigning information to a place within the appropriate framework based on logical analysis; Ti wants to attain internal precision through logical evaluation and decision making" (Hartzler)

Based on that description, you think you prefer Te over Ti?

I've been thinking about this question for 30 minutes...I asked a cousin of mine which one he thought was more me and he said Ti. When I'm bored or stressed, I tend to start organizing things such as my desk and all. System wise... I have multiple plans for the next few years (18 to end of college) and I do compare them by things such as anticipated effort, length of time to complete, anticipated enjoyment factor, money making factor, and my desire to do it. The word "Quantifiable" is throwing me off a bit, I do make some decisions impartially when they don't affect me but, at the end of the day, I try to make the most logical decision WITH my emotions in mind.

I don't think I "assign" information to places. I need more information on what that actualy means.
 

highlander

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1. I...don't admire anyone, actually. I really can't think of someone who I was so stellarly impressed. But, I'm impressed with Dr. Michio Kaku

1. He's obviously intelligent.
2. He has the ability to make even the most astounding and complex physics simple.
3. He has a way of connecting with people, even about something completely terrifying.
4. He doesn't have an arrogant air of intellectuality around him.
5. He's surprisingly respectful from what I've read.

So, these are likely a reflection of things that you are. Intelligent. Respectful. Don't have an air of intellectual superiority. Able to make complex things simple. Able to connect with people about difficult/challenging issues.

1. I don't like hypocrites, I despise when people tell other people not to do something and yet do it themselves.
2. People who are selfish and judgemental. I dislike people who feel the need to be the center of attention and make sure people pay attention to them just so they can feel good about themselves. I also don't like people who are so selfish that they are critical of others who don't follow 'their' rules.
3. People who are overtly emotional and think that can be a good substitute for logic.
4. People who are overtly logical and think that can be a good substitute for emotion.
5. People who are insensitive for various reasons. Especially people who don't like hanging around the poor or disabled because they are used to high class society.
6. Here's a friend one from my cousin "People who talk excessively"

Generally, there is some reflection of your shadow (inferior or tertiary) in the things you can't stand in others. That is, these are things you can be at times but don't realize or have a difficult time admitting to yourself. You can be
insensitive, hypocritical, overtly logical, overtly emotional, selfish and judgmental, and want to be the center of attention. If you think about a poor example of a function that correlates with these, it might offer some insight.

This could be a dead end but INTJ is Ni, Te, Fi, Se, while INFJ is Ni, Fe, Ti, Se. So, do any of these sound like Se, Fi, or Fe? I'm actually not sure. It was worth a shot though.

When I'm bored or stressed, I tend to start organizing things such as my desk and all.

Both types of introverted intuitives do that.

System wise... I have multiple plans for the next few years (18 to end of college) and I do compare them by things such as anticipated effort, length of time to complete, anticipated enjoyment factor, money making factor, and my desire to do it. The word "Quantifiable" is throwing me off a bit, I do make some decisions impartially when they don't affect me but, at the end of the day, I try to make the most logical decision WITH my emotions in mind.

I don't think I "assign" information to places. I need more information on what that actualy means.

This sounds like Te.

In summary, based on what you've said, my guess is INTJ with borderline T/F. The reasons are:
- it seems like there is a preference for Te over Ti
- there is a clear preference for Fi over Fe
- you clearly feel that you're dominant Ni and there are a number of things you said that seem to demonstrate consistency with that
- you seem to be much softer T than many.
 

Craft

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This sounds like Te.
How?

In summary, based on what you've said, my guess is INTJ with borderline T/F. The reasons are:
- it seems like there is a preference for Te over Ti
- there is a clear preference for Fi over Fe.

WTF, how? why? If you've listed down all factors within this thread, there is clear dominance of Fe over Fi. Though Te or Ti remains vague.
 

highlander

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How?

WTF, how? why? If you've listed down all factors within this thread, there is clear dominance of Fe over Fi. Though Te or Ti remains vague.

Well, numerous references. I don't really have time to list them right now. Will come back and provide more details later if I can - if Serge wants me to.
 

Serge

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Well, numerous references. I don't really have time to list them right now. Will come back and provide more details later if I can - if Serge wants me to.

I'd like you too, thanks in advance.
 

highlander

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It turns out based on events of today that I'm going to be extremely busy this week. So, I hate to be an Indian giver but....

If I may, I would like to suggest a couple of books that should help to answer your questions. They will explain the functions in far greater clarity, precision, and depth than I could ever hope to.

Functions of Type - Gary Hartzler and Margaret Hartzler
Building Blocks of Personality Type - Leona Haas and Mark Hunziker

These will elaborate on the differences between Fi and Fe, Ti and Te, etc.
 

Aleksei

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Serge is an INFJ. Case closed.
please, tell me more about how the obvious intj V is infj

after you finish expounding on your theory of why everyone else in the world is infj of course
 

Litvyak

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please, tell me more about how the obvious intj V is infj

From a practical point of view: INFJs are notoriously hard to type, while INTJs are usually easier to identify. The very existence of such a long debate promotes the fact that the op. is an INFJ.
 

Serge

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From a practical point of view: INFJs are notoriously hard to type, while INTJs are usually easier to identify. The very existence of such a long debate promotes the fact that the op. is an INFJ.

There's no doubt that I don't fit the stereotypical profile of an INTJ, but I have a hard time thinking that I have Fe as a function. I mean, I like being social, having fun with people, and I also do take notice of an abuse of relationship (As in a friend who's going over the line, a customer being disrespectful to an server, etc) and I like taking care of my closest friends if anything were ever to arise, but I don't think I value it to the point that I would sacrifice myself and my priorities just to make sure I don't disrupt the harmony of the group.

I think that's really the main issue with me being an INFJ. I don't place other people above me in order of need (To be a be able to help someone, you need not need help yourself. If you can't say no or you're always bending to the will of others, I think that's a issue.) and I'm ready to cause chaos if something is wrong. I am direct and confrontational.

Also, why are INFJs hard to type? Based on the INFJ forum, it seems like it'd be a fairly easy process. Just check for Ni and make sure they aren't an INTJ. Y'know?
 

Kalach

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Superficially, the length of the thread indicates arguing for the sake of arguing, aka exploring the truth, aka introverted thinking. If the priority were to match self image to an external standard and assess for correspondence, then the thread is likely over fairly quickly. (Also, INFJs tend to react badly to being told truths--it's all so a priori and to be resisted, right? The real truth has to be explored, right?)

That aside, the primary stumbling block seem to be how Fe can't organise for efficiency. Which it can. Fe is as directive, as object focused, as demanding as Te.

And points for an anime avatar but c'mon, "life has a boyfriend"?
 

Aleksei

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That aside, the primary stumbling block seem to be how Fe can't organise for efficiency. Which it can. Fe is as directive, as object focused, as demanding as Te.
Surprisingly your previous point was good, but here we've hit the little snag you tripped on in the Firefly thread: You don't know what Fe is. Fe. Isn't. Rational. It's organized to be sure, but it is not object-focused, it is subject-focused. It focuses on social organization, and manages in a much less curt or directive manner than Te.

Te: Simpson, I need you to update those reports by noon today, or your ass is gone.

Fe: Bart, look. I understand what you're going through, it can't be easy to find out your girlfriend is a transvestite space clown, but I really need those reports, the big man is leaning on us something fierce. I'm gonna give you a break now because that's the kind of guy I am, but if you don't have them by noon I'm gonna have to fire you. I'm sorry.

Oh, and he's clearly introspective. The more he tells about himself, the more he seems an Fi user, as opposed to Fe. In fact, this in itself is the refutation to your Ti point: He's finding out the truth about himself, rather than about impersonal principles, which could as easily be an Fi impulse. As Ti seeks precision in logic, so does Fi seek precision in values and feelings.
 

Kalach

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Surprisingly your previous point was good, but here we've hit the little snag you tripped on in the Firefly thread: You don't know what Fe is. Fe. Isn't. Rational. It's organized to be sure, but it is not object-focused, it is subject-focused. It focuses on social organization, and manages in a much less curt or directive manner than Te.

Jung says it is rational, so nyah.

And the objects it focuses on are people.

Which is a backwards way of saying "objective" and "subjective" as used in this context line up with "extroverted" and "introverted". Every e function is objective in that the function takes its content from an environment formally distinct from "the" subject, that subject being the person who is having a cognitive functioning.

Oh, and he's clearly introspective. The more he tells about himself, the more he seems an Fi user, as opposed to Fe. In fact, this in itself is the refutation to your Ti point: He's finding out the truth about himself, rather than about impersonal principles, which could easily be an Fi impulse. As Ti seeks precision in logic, so does Fi seek precision in values and feelings.

Serge is a he? In that case, the sig lines are proof enough.
 

Aleksei

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Jung says it is rational, so nyah.
Jung was an Fi-dominant clown. Surely he'd see himself as "rational." :newwink:

Serge is a he? In that case, the sig lines are proof enough.
...that he uses a Feeling function, something fierce, which he does. His Fi is out of control.
 

Serge

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Just on a hunch, I asked my ISFP guy I know (Quinlan, I believe he's on this forum) about Fi and Se and I've found that, based on these two sites here and here I've found a few phrases that I find strikingly to how I act and think
ISFPs tend to be quiet and reserved, and difficult to get to know well. They hold back their ideas and opinions except from those who they are closest to. They are likely to be kind, gentle and sensitive in their dealings with others. They are interested in contributing to people's sense of well-being and happiness, and will put a great deal of effort and energy into tasks which they believe in.

The introvert part is correct and I tend to hold back my opinions now because I understand that not everyone likes a 'know it all' I'm not always kind, gentle, and sensitive with my dealings with others though.

ISFPs are action-oriented individuals. They are "doers", and are usually uncomfortable with theorizing concepts and ideas, unless they see a practical application.

I can see a bit of this in myself as well. For example, I learned enough music theory to get me back, I never had a need to learn chord progression (Although I know in a round about way how they work) so I didn't learn it.

ISFPs are extremely perceptive and aware of others. They constantly gather specific information about people, and seek to discover what it means. They are usually penetratingly accurate in their perceptions of others.

Should be obvious at this point

"ISFPs are warm and sympathetic. They genuinely care about people, and are strongly service-oriented in their desire to please. They have an unusually deep well of caring for those who are close to them, and are likely to show their love through actions, rather than words."

I've been told that I'm warm and sympathetic. I do care about peoples. I want to help people. And I do show my love through actions, not words, if it's my choice. (Some people have a certain love language, y'know?)

ISFPs have no desire to lead or control others, just as they have no desire to be led or controlled by others. They need space and time alone to evaluate the circumstances of their life against their value system, and are likely to respect other people's needs for the same.

The ISFP is likely to not give themself enough credit for the things which they do extremely well. Their strong value systems can lead them to be intensely perfectionist, and cause them to judge themselves with unneccesary harshness.

I don't care about leading and I'm okay with being lead if the person is more competent than me. I tend to not credit myself enough, I'm rather harsh on myself/perfectionist I suppose.

ISFPs may be quite charming and ingratiating on first acquaintance, flowing with compliments which may (or may not) be deserved. On other occasions, the same individual may be aloof and detached. Some ISFP males are fiercely competitive, especially in sport or table games, and may have great difficulty losing. This competitive nature, also seen in other SP types, sometimes fosters 'lucky,' 'gut' feelings and a willingness to take risks.

This happens to me all that time actually! It actually shocks me when someone comes up to me and says "So what happened with you and ....You were being pretty hot and heavy last night" I'm also excessively competitive when I THINK I should be capable of winning. The most recent occasion I can recall is when I was playing a video game, on hard mode, for the first time and I was having excessive trouble with a boss because I did not level up to a sufficient level and it was on HARD mode. For some reason, I thought my skill would account for both my low level and the hard mode. Now, I did eventually win, but it extremely perturbed me that I couldn't win.

in everyday activities they are tolerant, open-minded, flexible, and adaptable. If one of their inner loyalties is threatened though, they will not give an inch. They usually enjoy the present moment, and do not like to spoil it by rushing to get things done. They have little wish to impress or dominate. The people they prize the most are those who take the time to understand their values and the goals they are working toward.

I'm fairly tolerant and open minded about a lot of things (Being open minded about bigotry is retarded lol) and I'm also fairly flexible (I don't make plans to such an detailed extent that I can't change them if I 'need' or 'want' too.)

They take a very personal approach to life, judging everything by their inner ideals and personal values. They stick to their values with passionate conviction, but can be influenced by someone they care deeply about. Although their inner loyalties and ideals govern their lives, ISFPs find these hard to talk about. Their deepest feelings are seldom expressed; their inner tenderness is masked by a quiet reserve.

Maybe I value efficiency? :p. I can be influenced by someone I care deeply about. In fact, my caring about other people was brought about by one of my best friends when she described to me why it was somewhat important to not be an ass to everyone. Also stopped cussing as much, as well.

They are interested mainly in the realities brought to them by their senses, both inner and outer. They are apt to enjoy fields where taste, discriminating, and a sense of beauty and proportion are important. Many ISFPs have a special love of nature and a sympathy with animals. They often excel in craftsmanship, and the work of their hands is usually more eloquent than their words.

I'm pretty picky when it comes to certain aesthetics. I recall having a peculiar revolting feeling when I saw a HIV cell. I don't know why, but I couldn't bear to look at it. I also have a pretty picky ear but that's most likely because I'm a musician. Awkwardly enough, animals tend to like me

There's a few more things but I'm a bit tired. Also, since I have so many similarities with this type, which has the same functions as an INTJ, wouldn't this lead itself to me having the same functions? I'll do an ISTP one soon, as well, when i get the time. Question, though, I recall my friend telling me that I know so much about her and yet she knows next to nothing about me, would that be more typical of an INTJ, INFJ, or any other type.
 

Kalach

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Neither INTJ nor INFJ. Those were possibilities suggested by other people that you're running with to see how they work out.

INFP.




Why anyone would want to be INTJ...
 

mrcockburn

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My attention span only lasted for 2 pages, but you sound like you don't want to be an INFJ. Which, I hate to say, isn't the most T-ish thing. A typologically confused INTJ would simply want to put ALL the facts out there and get the truth. The way you're trying to subtly promote yourself as an INTJ indicates a subjective slant to your self-analysis, which goes against what T's generally do/stand for.

INFJs rock. INFJs roll. If it's the "badass genius" INTJ stereotype you're after, INFJ is the same thing, except maybe a little broodier.
 
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