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....I'm sorry I have to do this....INTJ or INFJ?

Serge

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Whew. So sorry, Serge, I didn't mean to say abrasively that you weren't an INTJ and then disappear from the thread. I went back to re-read once more and gather evidence for my conclusion, but in the mean time, a whole bunch of other people posted. Okay, so, here's what I think.


It wasn't abrasive, I just found the comment itself interesting because it appeared that you had another type in mind outside of the scope of the topic. You have nothing to be sorry about lol.
I don't think that your understanding of how an INFJ would use extraverted feeling is quite correct. INFJs often appear detached and in my opinion, mean. I can explain why. Fe is not the warm-and-fuzzy, hugging-strangers-on-the-street function that it's often made out to be, especially when it's paired with dominant Ni. It's mostly a proprietary function. My INFJ friend is mean, in my opinion, but she is highly concerned with doing and saying the "appropriate" thing. Appropriate is the key word. Not the nice thing, the appropriate thing. She is not someone you would want to hug as soon as you saw her. In fact, most people want to run away from her. LOL! She's concerned about how people 'view' her. She's obsessed with asking herself how her actions toward other people define her 'role' in a way that I don't understand.

Interesting, I can understand some of that mentality. The last one, though, makes me a bit wary. Are you saying that she defines herself based on the relationships she has or that she defines her role in a relationship based on what is happening in the relationship?

INFJs are not 'emotional' in the same way that ENFJs are, let alone in the same way that ENFPs are. It's either the ExFx or the ENFx that gives off the impression of warmth right off the bat.
I see, I see.
All of that said about INFJs, I see you as a likely IxFJ. I haven't seen that much Ni? Your blog post sounded IxFJ, leaning ISFJ to me. Your signature includes a quote, "I like life but life has a boyfriend," which is an extraverted feeling joke. :) I wouldn't use that as evidence, but it was just a little red herring to me as I was thinking about your type.

Understandable. My blog post was written under the light that I needed to 'open up' and show my feelings (on a particular forum, that is). IIRC, ISFJs have Si, correct? Unless I have misunderstood the function which, from what I've read, is all about recalling old data and such, and comparing it to the current reality; if that is Si, then I don't think I use it. I prefer living in the moment and looking to the future, I don't really contemplate the past at all
Further comments below.
This sounds possibly ISFJ-like to me.


This could be xxFJ.


I don't know what I think about this post. It's not really indicative of any type in particular.

You know what, I typed as an INTJ my freshman year of high school, and I really thought that was what I was until my junior year. That was when I met an actual INTJ and realized I was NF. It's the aspect of yourself that you simply cannot live without that counts for MBTI, Serge. There are so many, so many stereotypes about types that you have to discount in order to figure out your true preferences.

Hmm. Fairly similar progression myself, I typed INTJ when I was in 8th grade, thought it was BS and dismissed, took the test again and got the same result and got interested, that's how I got started in all this MBTI business. Hmm. I can live without practicality and efficiency, I'm pretty sure. Now that I recall, I've done it numerous times before (One specific example I'm recalling at the moment is the fact that I've played more than 10 instruments. Logically speaking, I realize that you can play the melody of any song on any instrument and that sticking to one instrument and practicing will make you capable of actually playing that melody but, alas, I just love the sound and timbre of other instruments and as such, I had to pick up other instruments. Looking back, my skill levels suffered for it, but I do not regret it)
Aleksei, I think you're my favorite person on this forum. YOU ARE HILARIOUS. Your temper is so similar to mine.

Thank you for your post, it was very insightful! o/\o
 

Aleksei

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Well yes, he became the "savior" Kira. An INTJ would have preferred to stay hidden.
Light did stay hidden, behind the Kira mask.

Why not? Serge has a point. Light understands that sacrifices are necessary to fulfill his Ni.

Awareness of means =/= Fe.
Fe is magnanimity. It is values, focused away from the self; that is, awareness of the values and needs of others, and a compulsion to take care of others' needs, even at the expense of one's own. Fe, unless heavily damaged, will usually seek to protect the innocent. It would under almost no circumstances be willing to make human sacrifices to fulfill Ni's vision.
 

Arthur Schopenhauer

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Fe is magnanimity. It is values, focused away from the self; that is, awareness of the values and needs of others, and a compulsion to take care of others' needs, even at the expense of one's own. Fe, unless heavily damaged, will usually seek to protect the innocent. It would under almost no circumstances be willing to make human sacrifices to fulfill Ni's vision.

Nevermind.
 

Aleksei

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:laugh:

Fe

The process of extraverted Feeling often involves a desire to connect with (or disconnect from) others and is often evidenced by expressions of warmth (or displeasure) and self-disclosure. The “social graces,” such as being polite, being nice, being friendly, being considerate, and being appropriate, often revolve around the process of extraverted Feeling. Keeping in touch, laughing at jokes when others laugh, and trying to get people to act kindly to each other also involve extraverted Feeling. Using this process, we respond according to expressed or even unexpressed wants and needs of others. We may ask people what they want or need or self-disclose to prompt them to talk more about themselves. This often sparks conversation and lets us know more about them so we can better adjust our behavior to them. Often with this process, we feel pulled to be responsible and take care of others’ feelings, sometimes to the point of not separating our feelings from theirs. We may recognize and adhere to shared values, feelings, and social norms to get along.
 

Serge

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Nevermind.

By that standard, I don't think I'm an INFJ. I don't feel a need to take care of others, people should be able to do that themselves. I don't think anyone should be taking care of me, either. And who wouldn't want to protect the innocent from the (presumptively) guilty?
 

Liesl

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It's not taking care of other people in the literal sense. I hate these definitions of the cognitive processes because they're all so vague. It's mostly about propriety, connecting with others, recognizing them, and maybe when it's accessed more strongly, feeling a sense of 'oneness' with the people that form your social group. Like you're all in it together and it's important to all stay connected.

But is it important to you to respond to people in a socially appropriate way? Does it annoy you when people blatantly violate social protocol?

Let me tell you about my Fi so that you can compare. When I see something that I consider a grave injustice, I will do everything in my power to call it out and stop it in its tracks. And I do not care to talk about it in a 'socially appropriate' way. If I see you violating a universal human value, I am in your face, I am yelling at you, I am using every power I have to speak out against you. I don't feel sorry for you. I don't care about being polite to you. I don't care about your feelings anymore. When you cross the line, you're DONE. I don't value relationships with people that violate my core values, and I'm often moved to speak out against them.

Fe, on the other hand, focuses more on defending group norms or interpersonal standards than on own individual core values, which is Fi's focus. When Fe is disrupted, its users are more likely to just socially freeze you out. They'll just become frosty toward you.
 

Jonny

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@Serge: Either you are prone to playing devil's advocate, or you are leaning towards typing yourself as INTJ. Why don't you explain to us why you think you're an INTJ, and not an INFJ.
 

Serge

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It's not taking care of other people in the literal sense. I hate these definitions of the cognitive processes because they're all so vague. It's mostly about propriety, connecting with others, recognizing them, and maybe when it's accessed more strongly, feeling a sense of 'oneness' with the people that form your social group. Like you're all in it together and it's important to all stay connected.

But is it important to you to respond to people in a socially appropriate way? Does it annoy you when people blatantly violate social protocol?

Let me tell you about my Fi so that you can compare. When I see something that I consider a grave injustice, I will do everything in my power to call it out and stop it in its tracks. And I do not care to talk about it in a 'socially appropriate' way. If I see you violating a universal human value, I am in your face, I am yelling at you, I am using every power I have to speak out against you. I don't feel sorry for you. I don't care about being polite to you. I don't care about your feelings anymore. When you cross the line, you're DONE. I don't value relationships with people that violate my core values, and I'm often moved to speak out against them.

Fe, on the other hand, focuses more on defending group norms or interpersonal standards than on own individual core values, which is Fi's focus. When Fe is disrupted, its users are more likely to just socially freeze you out. They'll just become frosty toward you.
I'm more about individual core values than I am connecting with others.. I tend to like being socially appropriate but I don't think it's something that runs my life or anything like that.

@Serge: Either you are prone to playing devil's advocate, or you are leaning towards typing yourself as INTJ. Why don't you explain to us why you think you're an INTJ, and not an INFJ.


I'm just prone to playing Devil's advocate. I have a lot of typical INTJ tendencies such as always coming up with contingency plans, being interested in science, good at being impartial at the risk of lossing friends (I have, actually) but I also have traits that are outliers so to speak; I'm socially capable and all of those good things. I've spent quite an amount of time on the INTJ forum so I'm not sure if my INTJ traits are picked up or if they are something that is legitly spawned from my type. I also have an issue with the description of Fe: I don't place that much of my well being into other people. I like observing people but I don't expect them to play by my rules nor do I expect to change them into perfect little beings. And lastly, I'm not sure if I have a significant amount of Ti. I often search for the best answer not the answer that's good enough and I always try to explain things and explain what definition of the word I'm using is.
 

Liesl

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But if you had to choose between the NT and NF temperaments, which would you say reflects what you look for out out of life? Knowledge seeking or identity seeking?
 

Aleksei

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You're INTJ.

EDIT: I dunno if that's the best way to tell someone's type Liesl... I frankly identify more with the NT temperament myself, despite being NF.
 

Serge

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But if you had to choose between the NT and NF temperaments, which would you say reflects what you look for out out of life? Knowledge seeking or identity seeking?

Based on the descriptions on wikipedia...NT. Barely
 

Liesl

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Just thought it could be worth asking. :)

How do we know he's not an xNTP? I don't know, something's just off with typing him as INTJ.
 

Serge

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Just thought it could be worth asking. :)

How do we know he's not an xNTP? I don't know, something's just off with typing him as INTJ.

Hehe, I guess it 'could' be possible. Never thought about it much, I don't think I use Ne that much. I jump to conclusions, I don't tend to have that Ne brain storm.

Hmm.

Ni - Yes, I have it.
Ne - I can use it, it's not completely foreign to me.
Te - I make plans/focus on efficiency
Ti - I want things to be as accurate as possible.
Fi - My values are important to me. I'll fight for them no matter who's breaking them. I'll fight it by myself. I don't need a group.
Fe - I tend to have a vested interest in people.
Se - I love being physical. I love sports, being physically involved in life, and such.
Si - Ehrm, I have a good recall. I know what something should 'be' like. I don't tend to be sentimental nor do I have good memory when it comes to events.
 
G

Glycerine

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To me, a lot of the info you provided seemed to point to INFJ but if you think you're INTJ, then just go w/ it. It's like you don't really want people to tell you you're INFJ and/or you seriously believe you're INTJ. Besides, we don't really know you.
 

Serge

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To me, a lot of the info you provided seemed to point to INFJ but if you think you're INTJ, then just go w/ it. It's like you don't really want people to tell you you're INFJ and/or you seriously believe you're INTJ. Besides, we don't really know you.

I don't mind being told I'm an INFJ, INTJ, or any other mbti type. I just need some through convincing. Alas, though, I do think that the function order of the INTJ fits more with how I think than the function order of the INFJ. With that being said, I seem to outwardly express the personality of someone with an INFJ. And the specific reason why I made this topic is because I wanted to know how people, who didn't know me, viewed me mbti wise. I have a vast amount of opinions of what other people, both in real life and online. Now that I have this information, I'll observe myself for perhaps the next few days and see if maybe I'm convincing to be an INTJ (Perhaps for social dogmatism reasons) or if I'm actually an INTJ, albeit with high Fi.
 

Jonny

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INFJs focus on possibilities, think in terms of values and come easily to decisions. The small number of this type (1 percent) is regrettable, since INFJs have unusually strong drive to contribute to the welfare of others and genuinely enjoy helping their fellow men. This type has great depth of personality; they are themselves complicated, and can understand and deal with complex issues and people.

INTJs are the most self-confident of all types, having "self-power" awareness. Found in about 1 percent of the general population, the INTJs live in an introspective reality, focusing on possibilities, using thinking in the form of empirical logic, and preferring that events and people serve some positive use. Decisions come naturally to INTJs' once a decision is made, INTJs are at rest. INTJs look to the future rather than the past, and a word which captures the essence of INTJs is builder-a builder of systems and the applier of theoretical models.
 

Craft

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I don't mind being told I'm an INFJ, INTJ, or any other mbti type. I just need some through convincing.
Convincing?

I'll try a second-by-second analyzation of your vid:

0:04 Boom! straight Fe smile "Hello Hello Typology Forum."

0:08 Eyebrows Up + Smile = Fe. "Um Yeah"

0:23 You are thinking for a suitable word? That could be Ni or Si. "Pontificate out loud."

0:01 - 0:29 Intermittent and significant signs of Fe. You just can't let go of that smile, can you?

0:31 - when you release the smile, it becomes Ti. "Um, so yeah."

0:31 - 0:56 - some more signs of Fe

0:57 - you are looking for information again? "I think that's true in the younger INFJ's and such." You were trying to fit it with your "Ni" and the idea fits with your perceived internal storage of ideas. Ni

1:21 - "Um.." When you release the "habit smile", It becomes Ti. You are arranging your logic.

1:31 - 1:32 - Notice when you "wrinkled" your face while trying to show a point? That's externalized emotion that's meant to influence. "I feel that INFJ's are (x) in their relationship with people."

"I'm rather not." -Because of your differing Ni. INFJ's, in general, tend to follow an Ni based on their Fe but not necessarily in reality.

If this helps, I'll continue..


(I was thinking ENFJ but yeah...seems having an Introverted demeanor.)
------
For contrast

INTJ:
YouTube - Some INTJ | ENFP Differences Notice the lack of emotional expression?

1:34 "mhm" Te.

X:XX Hand gestures does not come with externalized emotion. Te.

Fi is when this guy actually shows emotions. And when he does, it will be subtle and less expressive as it is meant to be internal(for the self) not externalized.

Btw, there are many "fake INTJ's" in youtube.
 

Craft

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You're INTJ.

EDIT: I dunno if that's the best way to tell someone's type Liesl... I frankly identify more with the NT temperament myself, despite being NF.

That's because you probably are NT!

J/k but seriously, in what ways do you think you're more NT than NF?

Also, what cognitive function theory do you follow? Jungian cognitive functions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


There is no such thing as:

Ne Te Fi Si or Ne Te Si Fi...
 

Aleksei

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That's because you probably are NT!

J/k but seriously, in what ways do you think you're more NT than NF?
I identify strongly with the Rational temperament because I'm analytical, stoic, cynical, jaded and pragmatic. However, I do have NF traits -- I'm prone to daydreaming, I'm a tad emotionally insecure, I'm very in touch with my feelings, emotions and values, and very capricious.

Also, what cognitive function theory do you follow?
There's more than one? :huh: I realize there's no such thing as Ne-Te-Fi-Si, and I actually am Ne Fi Te Si (in the sense that my tertiary is subordinate to my auxiliary). I just have a very strong Te function, and I'm pretty certain it's Te rather than Ti because I actually kinda suck at picking out specifics. I'm very bad at logic puzzles, unless I approach them methodically rather than deductively.
 
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