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'Laur's Functions™

Laurie

Was E.laur
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Ok so I'm looking at "functions."

I really don't know a lot about them, I'm just sort of testing the waters and seeing what is there.

I could take a "functions" test but it seems a little silly since some of the "questions" can mean more than one thing. I may just go through some of the test and explain how I think of them and work from there.

I'm fine with being ENFP but I think it might be a bit off in a way. So I am curious how my functions work.

Some thoughts:

I don't think I have Fe, it appears that the things I see about Fe are not at all like me. I have no idea what's going on socially, what I'm "supposed" to do. The idea of helping out at a dinner had to be learned, even still I don't fully remember to do it. I feel a day late and a dollar short learning how you are supposed to interact with people.

I'm not sure what function T I have. I have seen Ti descriptions that seem to fit me but it's possible that I'm misunderstanding what it is.

I feel like Ne but I'm still not fully clear on that one, either.

At this point I'm looking at this test Keys 2 Cognition - Cognitive Processes

And this info on functions:
I can't find the link now :p

Any links or comments are welcome. I'm not fully "myself" on the forums, I interact in a different way than real life. Forums are easier to be clear but I'm still interested in what people have to say about what they've seen.

I have no preconceived notions about functions, tell me your theories and feel free to repeat yourself even if it's in other places on the forum. I haven't looked at the function posts on the forum yet, I'm just wading through it for myself.
 

Magic Poriferan

^He pronks, too!
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Being told to spend money probably isn't what you were looking for, but the book that the last link in my signature goes to would be very helpful in all of this. I suppose if you're super lucky a library near you might have it, but I doubt it.
 

Laurie

Was E.laur
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None of the libraries in the entire cleveland area have any of her books? That's insane. Is this chick an internet sensation or something?
 

simulatedworld

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Lenore Thomson Exegesis Wiki: Function Attitudes

Some highlights:

Extraverted Sensation (Se) is the attitude that whatever is manifest (apparent, observable) calls forth an obvious and natural response, that has nothing to do with the way you need to respond in any other moment. The meaning of everything is readily apparent--at the time that it appears. Whatever stands out and gets your attention here and now is precisely what needs your attention here and now. Your instincts at each moment will tell you what to do; there is no point in anticipating.

Extraverted Intuition (Ne) is the attitude that what is manifest (apparent, observable) is a reflection of a greater reality. The dinosaur bone hints at the dinosaur, the cloud hints at the coming thunderstorm, the thunderstorm is a reflection of the rotation of the Earth within its atmosphere. Whatever you find, there is something more to find: a broader context, a whole, which will change your understanding of the part.

And so on and so forth...there are a lot of good starting points there, but I'll spare you the pasting of the rest.
 

Laurie

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That's the site I was supposed to look at and forgot where it was. Thanks :p

Now I can actually refer to it.
 

nanook

a scream in a vortex
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you may be closer to your ISTp (SiTe) shadow, than some other ENFp. in my mind it's not just a theoretical similarity, but a natural one, to the point where your physiognomy is closer to ISTp than that of other ENFp. or maybe some ISTp are closer to ENFp who are like you - i have no way to tell which. you are like different figures made from the same piece of wood. i have not seen such a cross-type link or reference in people who have a mighty shadow because of weak development of secondary functions. this link or reference seems to be obvious in people who have a very active lifestyle - who might be more synergistic if that's the right word. (i mean something like good synchronisation and wiring of brain hemispheres?)

i am shy about posting this, because my impression of you is very superficial. its not like i have been reading all of your posts..
 

simulatedworld

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Elaur: I wouldn't put too much stock in the functional analysis of someone with an X listed for his P/J digit.

If you remember the way we derive functions, changing P to J or vice versa completely inverts all of your functional direction preferences, so if this guy doesn't know which of the two he is, we can infer that he probably doesn't know a lot about the function attitudes in the first place.

Example: INFP is Fi, Ne, Si, Te.

Changing that to INFJ gives you Ni, Fe, Ti, Se.

None of the same preferred functional attitudes.
 

Magic Poriferan

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That site was down for a while... :mellow:
 

Laurie

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Elaur: I wouldn't put too much stock in the functional analysis of someone with an X listed for his P/J digit.

If you remember the way we derive functions, changing P to J or vice versa completely inverts all of your functional direction preferences, so if this guy doesn't know which of the two he is, we can infer that he probably doesn't know a lot about the function attitudes in the first place.

Example: INFP is Fi, Ne, Si, Te.

Changing that to INFJ gives you Ni, Fe, Ti, Se.

None of the same preferred functional attitudes.

I still don't mind their input, it gives me something else to consider.

Do you feel like functions are hard and fast rules for each type?
 

Magic Poriferan

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I still don't mind their input, it gives me something else to consider.

Do you feel like functions are hard and fast rules for each type?

I know you didn't ask me, but, my opinion is that I'm not very convinced of the specified tertiary processes and beyond in the types. However, the types are at the very least defined by the dominant and auxiliary processes, so that much is definitely hard and fast. If you weren't Ne-Fi, then you definitively aren't ENFP.

There are many reasons I doubt the other processes. 1) They have particularly wishy-washy, interprative ways of supposedly manifesting themselves. They seem to involved a process that is asserted without any systematic validation. 2) 16 types is the number you get from every possible permutation of two processes differeing on E/I and J/P. The moment you make assertsion beyond that, the number of permutations goes beyond 16, and yet the MBTI at that point does not, so it fails to be comprehensive. 3) I have yet to see a single test that asks question that anyway account for processes beyond the auxiliary.

Ahem. But again, if you didn't have the first two processes count, there wouldn't be any types at all.
 

Laurie

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So I'm putting together something for my husband to decide if he has Si or Ni. And this is how I've always remembered thinking. I love the idea of marketing because it totally manipulates people into thinking things without them realizing.

For example, whereas from an Extraverted Sensation perspective, you might feel very impressed upon meeting a man wearing a fancy Italian suit (signs call forth a natural response and need no interpretation); from an Ni perspective, you would consciously say to yourself that he's wearing an Italian suit and this is supposed to make you think he's wealthy or upper-class or really has his act together or something like that, and therefore is supposed to make you feel impressed (signs and what they mean are connected only arbitrarily). Whether he really does have his act together is a matter upon which you reserve judgement. Consequently you don't feel impressed. You merely note the expected interpretation as no less a part of your environment than the suit itself.
 

Laurie

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I identify with this, too. I definitely want to understand something before I feel comfortable with it. It takes me longer to start stuff sometimes (like 3d modelling) because I want to UNDERSTAND how it works before I try to use it. (What are verts, how do they work with polygons, how is it different from 2d modelling, what ARE polygons and verts) When I learned to drive stick shift my friend taught me how it worked first, rather than just making me have at it (he tested intj recently). I remember absolutely LOVING how he taught me, rather than just "push this pedal and go" What is the point of doing with no understanding.

Introverted Thinking leads you to relate whatever you are doing to some larger principles that you have identified. Hence, Ti is like having some kind of book in your head, which describes the inner workings of things. When interacting with reality, you are constantly writing and re-writing your book. To deal with anything, you have to be able to understand in terms of the observations in your book. Whenever you are dealing with any new system, you start writing a new chapter on it in order to attain complete understanding of it.

This approach may seem very cumbersome from an extraverted standpoint. You don't really need to understand how a bicycle works in order to ride one. You don't have to actually understand a subject in school if you simply cram and memorize. You don't have to understand computers to check your email. Yet Ti leads you to desire complete understanding of whatever you are doing, instead of looking up the correct procedure, or asking your friends for help, or kicking it when it's not working. With Ti, you don't simply try to understand a system well enough to manipulate it. You try to become such an expert on how it works that you could write a book about it if you had to, even if your expertise is unusable or useless to everybody (sometimes even to yourself).
 

Jeffster

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I know you didn't ask me, but, my opinion is that I'm not very convinced of the specified tertiary processes and beyond in the types. However, the types are at the very least defined by the dominant and auxiliary processes, so that much is definitely hard and fast. If you weren't Ne-Fi, then you definitively aren't ENFP.

There are many reasons I doubt the other processes. 1) They have particularly wishy-washy, interprative ways of supposedly manifesting themselves. They seem to involved a process that is asserted without any systematic validation. 2) 16 types is the number you get from every possible permutation of two processes differeing on E/I and J/P. The moment you make assertsion beyond that, the number of permutations goes beyond 16, and yet the MBTI at that point does not, so it fails to be comprehensive. 3) I have yet to see a single test that asks question that anyway account for processes beyond the auxiliary.

Ahem. But again, if you didn't have the first two processes count, there wouldn't be any types at all.

We may disagree on Keirsey, but I completely agree with you here.
 

Laurie

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Constantly analyzing why people are acting/doing the things they are. What function?
 
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