Ni confused with Fi

[faultyideal]

up until i started looking into MBTI and jung's functions again recently, i guessed i was INFP. i grudgingly accepted the Fi/Ne dynamic as my own, though i didn't understand it completely. i didn't put much stock in it and moved on to the Enneagram.

then the other day i was speaking with an ENFP friend trying to help him figure out his E-type, when we started discussing the MBTI. he then told me i was wrong about Fi, and that what i was describing as myself sounded more like Ni-dominant. i told him that sometimes i felt like i could read people's emotions, almost without meaning to. i could then internally predict what they would do next/what they were thinking.

i told my friend that one time, my girlfriend and i were going to go to watch a movie i rented at my house. first we stopped by my girlfriend's mom's work to get some food (she's a manager at a local restaurant). while we ate, her mom came and sat with us. my gf began to tell her about our plans, and as she did i could sense somehow an unease in her mom. there were no obvious signs, just very subtle indicators that my sensitive girlfriend couldn't even pick up. after we left, i told my gf that i thought her mom was planning something and that it might be a good idea to wait before we watched the movie. when my girlfriend got home, her mom was surprised then told her that she actually had rented the same video we did and was wanting to spend time with her daughter.

my friend told me that what i thought was my Ne picking up on external possibilities and my Fi coming to a decision was actually more like Fe picking up information and my Ni predicting.

what i guess i'm saying is, are there any jungian gurus out there who can explain that situation?

 

[neptunesnet]

I thinking about this the other day because I thought I was confusing Ni and Fi, too.

I'm very in tune with other people's emotions and can often predict certain outcomes. But I'm still an INFP. I just have very well-developed Ni and Fe. Your Ni and Fe may be well-developed, too. But keep in mind that you shouldn't let what you know to be your dominant and auxiliary functions limit you. INFPs can have excellent use of Ti or Ni or Fe or any other of the functions and still be INFPs. It depends on the individual. Have you taken a cognitive functions analysis test?

Also, I often don't feel like I fit into the overly cheesy and melodramatically romantic 'bleeding heart Fi description. I think most people don't understand what Fi is, so they just depict it based on stereotypes of Fi doms. If you can't relate to that, then that's okay. It certainly doesn't make you any less INFP. Again, don't feel limited.


Fyi, I am no Jungian guru. I can just tell you my experience.

I hope it helped some .

 

[VagrantFarce]

It's tough to compare Fi with Ni, since they don't oppose each other and quite a few types utilize both. I suggest you try and figure out your perceiving functions, i.e. whether you have Ni and Se or Ne and Si (each type only has one of these pairs). I'm posting these descriptions from another thread:

• Ni says that the world is arbitrary and deceitful, and not representative of all the possible interpretations of itself. You have to liberate yourself from these arbitrary interpretations by considering all possible interpretations, or you will risk being led astray.
• Se says that the world is filled with stimuli, and all you have to do is let yourself react to them. No need to think, just react. The meaning of a sign is what your gut tells you you should do in response. If it's not here or not now, it's not real.
  
  
• Ne says that everything you come across is connected to a greater context, and all you have to do is let yourself make the connection between this object and another one. Through this act of discovery, we become aware of greater possibilities for meaning, knowledge or action.
• Si says that the world is so overwhelmingly filled with stimuli that you need something stable to focus on or you'll just be permanently overwhelmed and confused.

Hope that helps a bit.

 

[Kaveri]

Ni are Fi are probably confused a lot because when we use Ni, we often say: I *feel* that something is going to happen or that we should not do this etc. (Or at least I tend to use the verb "feel" in this kind of context but perhaps Ts tend to say that they *think* that something is going to happen or that something should wait, and then they go and confuse Ni and Ti.)

It's tough to compare Fi with Ni, since they don't oppose each other and quite a few types utilize both. I suggest you try and figure out your perceiving functions, i.e. whether you have Ni and Se or Ne and Si (each type only has one of these pairs). I'm posting these descriptions from another thread:

• Ni says that the world is arbitrary and deceitful, and not representative of all the possible interpretations of itself. You have to liberate yourself from these arbitrary interpretations by considering all possible interpretations, or you will risk being led astray.
• Se says that the world is filled with stimuli, and all you have to do is let yourself react to them. No need to think, just react. The meaning of a sign is what your gut tells you you should do in response. If it's not here or not now, it's not real.
  
• Ne says that everything you come across is connected to a greater context, and all you have to do is let yourself make the connection between this object and another one. Through this act of discovery, we become aware of greater possibilities for meaning, knowledge or action.
• Si says that the world is so overwhelmingly filled with stimuli that you need something stable to focus on or you'll just be permanently overwhelmed and confused.

Hope that helps a bit.

Wow, I relate to that Si description much more than to the Se description.

 

[OrangeAppled]

Well, you sound Fe over Fi from what you say. I see Fe being much more sensitive to external signs of emotion. It picks up on other people's moods very well and seems to affect others' moods more.

I'm a little more oblivious to other people and their moods, but sometimes I can sense if someone is uncomfortable or whatever. For me, it stems more from empathy - relating my own experience metaphorically (as it often does not directly relate) to the point where I can feel what they feel.

It's easy to confuse the Ni Fe and Fi Ne processes because they are kind of inverted. They start from different points, but sometimes end up with similar conclusions.

 

[milkyway2]

I get Ti and Ni confused. I don't get what Ni is I guess.

 

[gromit]

Interesting… part of the conversation we were having at the NE meetup was about Ti vs Ni. My understanding based off of our discussion is that Ni is more about these sort of axioms that are then compared with reality, almost an internal model of the universe that is adjusted as more information comes along, while Ti is more about logical consistency when evaluating something, like whether things relate to one another in a coherent fashion.

But then Fi seems similar to Ni in some ways too though, like the topic of this thread suggests, because I’ve heard people refer to Fi 'axioms'. But these axioms seem more like moral principles than a theoretical model of reality.

 

[gromit]

Oh I didn't realize this was in What's My Type... maybe I should make a new topic in the MBTI forum?

 

[Eric B]

>Ni is more about these sort of axioms that are then compared with reality, almost an internal model of the universe that is adjusted as more information comes along

Great way of putting it. I came to think of them as what I called "event templates", which can be picked up in ongoing events, giving you a sense of what might/will happen.

Since this template or axiom is internal (not directly connected to the object you are looking at), that is why it is introverted. Since it's abstract (not some concrete rememberance, but rather a general pattern extracted from them), that's why it's intuition. Since it is perception, that is what separates it from Ti or Fi.

Where Ti is about logical consistency, and Fe about ethical congruence, those both move one to actually put things together, or evaluate how they should be put together. Ni is not about such putting together in terms of consistency; it is observing what already seems put together, as it is. Si is of course that way as well.

Yeah, but I noticed that Ni and Fi were the hardest to fully understand, followed by Ti. That's partly from them all being internal, and it's harder to come up with analogies (which are usually external), or understand ones we cannot relate tp our own internal experience. Si is the easiest introverted function to understand, because it is concrete, and often concerns memory.

Also, there was a lot of obfuscation of the concepts from certain sources, like Fi being any form of "valuation" or emotion, and even a person's Ti could be accused of really being Fi because they're too emotional about it, or not fitting a stereotypical TP "totally detached" mold. This led to many NP's being torn between T and F, and observers claiming any such people must be F's; when in reality, they might more likely be T's misled by the whole "always detached" stereotype.
I once had Ti described in terms of "knowing" or "getting things" quickly, which to me sounded more like Ni. And then, of course, the confusion concerning the word "feeling" used for both Fi and Ni; as mentioned.
Both Ti and Ni are also associated with "frameworks". But really, that's a quality of all introverted functions, if you really look at it.

 

[gromit]

Great way of putting it. I came to think of them as what I called "event templates", which can be picked up in ongoing events, giving you a sense of what might/will happen.

Since this template or axiom is internal (not directly connected to the object you are looking at), that is why it is introverted. Since it's abstract (not some concrete rememberance, but rather a general pattern extracted from them), that's why it's intuition. Since it is perception, that is what separates it from Ti or Fi.

Thanks! So Fi axioms deal with valuation of ideas and actions and attitudes. Ni, on the other hand, does not have valuation attached to it?

 

[XYZ]

There's a good thread on INTP central about the cognitive functions: Cognitive Functions 100: Basic Functionality Revised - INTP Forum

Basically...

Ni/Si is your internal worldview forming function
Ti/Fi is your internal logical or moral compass function
Ne/Se is your external stimulus reading function
Te/Fe is your external systematic or social dynamics shifting function

 

[highlander]

up until i started looking into MBTI and jung's functions again recently, i guessed i was INFP. i grudgingly accepted the Fi/Ne dynamic as my own, though i didn't understand it completely. i didn't put much stock in it and moved on to the Enneagram.

then the other day i was speaking with an ENFP friend trying to help him figure out his E-type, when we started discussing the MBTI. he then told me i was wrong about Fi, and that what i was describing as myself sounded more like Ni-dominant. i told him that sometimes i felt like i could read people's emotions, almost without meaning to. i could then internally predict what they would do next/what they were thinking.

i told my friend that one time, my girlfriend and i were going to go to watch a movie i rented at my house. first we stopped by my girlfriend's mom's work to get some food (she's a manager at a local restaurant). while we ate, her mom came and sat with us. my gf began to tell her about our plans, and as she did i could sense somehow an unease in her mom. there were no obvious signs, just very subtle indicators that my sensitive girlfriend couldn't even pick up. after we left, i told my gf that i thought her mom was planning something and that it might be a good idea to wait before we watched the movie. when my girlfriend got home, her mom was surprised then told her that she actually had rented the same video we did and was wanting to spend time with her daughter.

my friend told me that what i thought was my Ne picking up on external possibilities and my Fi coming to a decision was actually more like Fe picking up information and my Ni predicting.

what i guess i'm saying is, are there any jungian gurus out there who can explain that situation?

No Jungian guru here but I get these types of feelings all the time. I've assumed it to be Ni and not Fi. It has to do with little signals in the communication - slight changes/patterns in tone of voice, body language, eye movement, etc. I'm overly susceptible to these little signals to the point of excess and over-interpretation. Often they seem to be right but I've got a problem with over-analyzing them. It definitely seems like an intuition thing.