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Why doesn't anyone like ESFJ's?

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
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People tend to have a negative gut reaction towards their shadow type, seeing it as unhealthy and immature when in reality it's just their own inferior version of it that's unhealthy and immature. Therefore, on the Internet, which has a higher percentage of INPs than real life, you're going to get a lot more hatred aimed at ESJs -- and vice versa IRL.

People don't hate ESJs: that's their mothers and fathers; their coach and the cheerleader who wouldn't look at them twice--regular fixtures of mundane lives who maintain the status quo for themselves and others.
Half right, half not, IME. The not-right half are non-ESJs who get typed as ESJs out of confirmation bias, because they represent the status quo and only SJs can represent the status quo. I've seen more traditionalist ESPs ENJs mistyped as ESJs, simply by virtue of filling stereotypically ESJ roles.
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
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Observation from reading the earlier pages of this thread: God DAMN has this forum improved since 2009.
 

BadOctopus

Suave y Fuerte
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I generally like ESFJs, because they're practical and industrious and nurturing in all the ways I'm not. And someone has to be!
 

Girlonfire

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Jan 1, 2016
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Enxp
Wow, an ENTP calling someone an attention whore. It's like that video I saw of a killer whale eating a great white shark. Unheard of!!

ttrim hasn't been back to forum since s/he made this thread. Which is unfortunate because had they stayed they would've gained cool points and transitioned to the enviable list of OK ESxJs. Well, enviable on this little speck of the internet but as long as you're in The In Crowd it doesn't matter. I mean we have our own social structure and hierarchy here as well where the more closely you align with this forum's definition of "normal" (ostracized, misunderstood, hurt, disembodied) you are essentially the forum ESFJs.

No, no, no. She didn't say "attention whore," she said they like to hoard attention! This makes a world of difference. My long-term ESFJ "friend" likes to butt out anyone who gets any attention at all. While we love attention as ENTPs, we like to make sure that everyone is happy. For the ESFJ, they like to make sure that they are the ONLY ones who are happy. Don't jump down the ENTPs throat. You're twisting their words.
 

Bijection

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4
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INTP
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6w5
What the hell? I don't know much about MBTI, but I know a bit about socionics, and socionics says INTPs love ESFJs and vice versa.
And I'm an INTP, and I found this to be true.

The only reason an INTP can hate an ESFJ is if they don't really get to know each other. Since the area of interest is completely different (NT vs SF), if they don't know closely each other, they feel like they have nothing in common and thus don't find interest in each other.
But if THEY DO get to know each other closely, it's always a lot of fun.

In Socionics, relationship between LII end ESE is duality.
It means: as an INTP, I think Ti, Ne, Si, Fe are all valued information elements. I think Te, Ni, Se, Fi are NOT VALUED information elements.

I.E.:
Ti does what Te does but it does it better. Understanding the core mechanics of something is better than understanding how to use it.
Ne does what Ni does but it does it better. Seeing the possibilities and potential in things it's better if it's actualized right now, and not in some weird time-stretched comprehension of reality.


So an ESFJ has the same valued elements as I have (Fe, Si, Ne, Ti) but with a reverse order of inclination.
Thus, I'm not used to dealing with manifestation of emotions. But I think it's a healthy thing. ESFJ teaches me that. Great. Fe. Yay.
ESFJ is not used to use strict pure logic to analyze what's going on in his life. But he/she thinks it's a healthy thing. I teach him/her that. Great. Ti. Yay.

In a way, INTP and ESFJ complement each other. They can teach each other to appreciate the part of life which they tend to run away from.

INTP and INTJ become friends because of common interests (INT, INT). But they have completely different approaches to life, so they usually don't like to get too close emotionally.
INTP and ESFJ become friends because they make each other more balanced and complete, even if they have no common interests at the beginning of the relationship.

It's like if an INTP secretly wants to be an ESFJ but can't admit it, not even to himself. But when he does, he loves it.


So says socionics.:)

What do you think?
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
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[MENTION=27000]Bijection[/MENTION] So what you're saying is... haters are just jealous? ;)

Welcome to the forum, btw.
 

Bush

cute lil war dog
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They're a good scapegoat. Especially good because nobody in the scapegoat group is around to defend themselves. Especially especially good because, since everyone uses them as a scapegoat, scapegoating them just snowballs until they become the source of all of everyone's problems.

And their dichotomies (at least on paper) are near-opposite to most others' (sans one or two dichotomies). That makes it easy and natural to make them the scapegoat.

It doesn't take a Thinking type to point that out.

What do you think?
Makes sense overall. I personally buy into around 50-60% of Socionics in general. But a few things:

- MBTI's INTP doesn't necessarily match one-to-one with the Socionics INTj. It's a trend for sure, but there are exceptions. How many exceptions? I'm not sure. We might be able to ignore this problem altogether.
- In MBTI, the third and fourth functions are considered completely contrary to the ego. As such, they're seen as undesirable. That is, until people grow the hell up and realize that there's more to life than their own dominant perspective..
 

Starry

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6,103
No, no, no. She didn't say "attention whore," she said they like to hoard attention! This makes a world of difference. My long-term ESFJ "friend" likes to butt out anyone who gets any attention at all. While we love attention as ENTPs, we like to make sure that everyone is happy. For the ESFJ, they like to make sure that they are the ONLY ones who are happy. Don't jump down the ENTPs throat. You're twisting their words.


wtf
 

JocktheMotie

Habitual Fi LineStepper
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Nov 20, 2008
Messages
8,491
Because if they're shitty they'll be in your face about it, unlike an IxFx who will mope in the corner and wait for you to ask them what's wrong.
 

great_bay

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This thread reminds me of the youtube video whereas the ESFJ male reads what people said about ESFJs. He looked incredibly angry.
 

saudade

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but..I'm pretty okay with ESFJ. :shock:
 

Doctor Cringelord

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No, no, no. She didn't say "attention whore," she said they like to hoard attention! This makes a world of difference. My long-term ESFJ "friend" likes to butt out anyone who gets any attention at all. While we love attention as ENTPs, we like to make sure that everyone is happy. For the ESFJ, they like to make sure that they are the ONLY ones who are happy. Don't jump down the ENTPs throat. You're twisting their words.

no
 

Bush

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as ENTPs, we like to make sure that everyone is happy. For the ESFJ, they like to make sure that they are the ONLY ones who are happy.

You.. you seriously think that ENTPs care more about making everyone happy than ESFJs do?

Do you also believe that ESFJs will walk down the street and knock ice cream cones out of childrens' hands just to make them miserable? That they lie in wait under childrens' beds so that they can spook them at night and then kill their parents? That they would deny a loan application from a young and desperate couple who need a bit of help, just because they want to? Piss in every sandbox? Gleefully knock down every NTP's safe space?
 
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