Help Type My Dude!

[CunningLinguist]

Hi guys, INFP here, hoping to figure out what type I've gotten myself involved with. When you get so involved with someone I'm finding it's hard to objectively analyze them because you see elements of many types within them. Or maybe they're just crazy. Be warned, this is a long post. But hopefully detailed enough to make some speculations.

-Said he didn't want to do MBTI because he didn't want to be categorized or typed. Also stated "there's no such thing as introverts or extroverts, people are just 'verts".

-Web designer, gets unnerved when there are changes at work like last week when a guy he socializes with outside of work was moved into the position of being his boss due to company-wide restructuring. He always takes such things personally. He has a fear he's being pushed out/getting fired any day. Says that when people at work don't give him enough to do he's bored and feels useless. Then feels guilty because others seem fine sitting at a desk all day while he hates it. Claims that he deliberately tries to get attention by showing up to work later and later so that they will either a) fire him or b) confront him about it, when he tells them to give him more work. Once they give him more work he starts coming in on time or early. Has this extreme need to stay busy to avoid being bored but also has difficulty with a 9-5 structure, feels more awake late at night (as do I).

-Always working on side projects at home when not at work...either redesigns of his website or making a new comic book. Wants to make comic books for a living, is really into comics and sci-fi, huge Buffy fan, attends Dragon Con.

-Says he loves me because no one has understood what his life is like before in terms of emotions. He seems to be very emotionally moody...or at least more externally emotionally moody than I, because I find myself relating but find it odd that he outwardly expresses angst. He says he's honest with me because he has nothing to gain from lying. Also, the moodiness all seems to be tied to deep fear of failure. He told me before he was 25 he was always "oh things will work out somehow, I can't fail because I'm me". Then he didn't get a job he wanted and a relationship didn't work out and now he says he has constant fear of screwing things up somehow.

-When not working spends free time with his family. States that he won't move while his grandparents are still alive. Makes the family calendar every year, is into family genealogy. Says his feelings are hurt when people discount what's important to him-being with his family. Wants me to attend every football tailgate, family gathering, anything family-related. I find this exhausting sometimes. The thing is, he does at times too but he always goes anyway. Is generally the family member who drives people places or fixes stuff for them. Also tends to gossip a lot around his family. Also enjoys saying mean/innappropriate things around his mother for entertainment because they always shock her. She seems very SFJ, and was disappointed in him for his Halloween costume (priest robe w/Norwegian death metal makeup) when he went as Judas Priest.

-Says people accuse him of lacking morals because he acts however he wants but that he does have them-he has his own created internal value system.

-Says he views sex and romance as separate, the romance is laying around talking, saying 'I love you' (which he wants to do way more than me-he said it first, just randomly blurted it out one day), cuddling, spending time together but sex is done because it feels good. He describes me as wonderful and perfect with unnerving frequency. Again, it feels weird to me to be outwardly expressive of such things. And after he asked and I told him I loved him back he checked again a couple weeks later, and has done so. He seems to need reassurance that I haven't run away yet.

-Is very into his appearance in that he always wants to straighten his hair, moisturizes, scolds himself if he eats too much (seems afraid of being fat). Asked me one day if I thought he was gay when we met, I said no but that my roommate had. Claims people often mistake him as that. His voice isn't the deepest, he gets really excited and uses hand gestures in conversation, he seems to be uncaring about using traditionally female words like 'slut' to describe himself, likes to joke about wearing pink or painting his nails (black only). His mother says he's the daughter she never had.

-Within a couple minutes of meeting an ENTJ that I know he asked me why we don't hang out with her more. He seemed to become more energized around her. Also another male friend of mine, who is either ENTJ or ENFJ seemed to make him more talkative. He's about as quiet as I am in social interactions unless a topic of interest comes up. My INTP and INFP friends really like him and always want to hang out. He seems to really like them too. But he's very good about being willing to meet everybody, he seems very aware of being nice to who he's "supposed" to be nice to. He also seems to really like my mom, she's an ISTJ. A couple times I've complained about things she does that I find annoying and he sides with her, saying something like "that's how a mother should be". In terms of friends, he seems to have many acquaintances (just like me) but only a couple actual friendships that he maintains longer than the duration of social activity (like working in the same place). The friends that he has maintained the longest are all girls from high school and he's always had difficulty making male friends outside of work.

Okay, if you've made it down here congrats! Type away!

 

[Falcarius]

Sounds mostly like ISFJ traits, but it is hard to tell as this person seems to have self-confidence issues if not a profound passive–aggressive attitude.

 

[CunningLinguist]

Thanks Falcarius, one type I was considering was ISFJ for the whole focus/reliance on family I've seen but then...are ISFJ prone to using sarcastic humor and not fitting in at work or in "traditional" settings?

Also, I forgot to mention organization, which could be important...there are random piles of things in the office and in closets, so he seems to be prone to having organized piles of disorganization. This reminds me somewhat of my ISTJ mother actually. But I suppose any type can be disorganized.

 

[OrangeAppled]

-Says people accuse him of lacking morals because he acts however he wants but that he does have them-he has his own created internal value system.

This in particular makes me think ISFP, but that seems to be the best fit for the whole description.

 

[Seymour]

[..]He describes me as wonderful and perfect with unnerving frequency.

I was in a romantic relationship with an ISFP, and he used exactly those words to describe me unnervingly often. I kind of had an issue with the "perfect" part. INFPs never think they are perfect, and just hearing the word brought up all the ways I fell short.

Also, my ISFP friend always had semi-paranoia about his work situation. He loved people individually at work, but would sometimes switch into a paranoid mode where he ascribed all kind of devious motivations to folks and would think the whole system was tilted again him.

He also had his own value system and didn't feel constrained by anyone else's. To me from the outside, it sometimes looked like rationalizing especially since he wasn't that good at explaining what his value system was. Still, it was clear he had a value system that was important to him.

Finally, he also hated the idea of being categorized or typed. He would freely admit to being odd, but didn't want to be categorized as being odd like anyone else.

I think people who are in a miserable or stressful situation are harder to type, since they may be forced to act against their type to some degree.

 

[BlueScreen]

Yeh, I'm also looking in the FP domain. F is probably the first letter we could guess. I'm not sure at all about the other three. I might even guess ENFP. Reminds me of some ENTJs also. But neither are that strongly family oriented or against typing. ISFP is good too.

To the OP: What is his style of thinking like? What drives him? What are his interests? If he conforms to a lot, what will he never back down on?

(p.s. your username is awesome!)

 

[CunningLinguist]

Thanks for the questions, noigmn. I'm not exactly sure about a style of thinking. He's big into being able to do his own thing, whatever that means. He likes his alone time, and generally doesn't make plans unless someone at work says everyone is going out after work or a family member calls him saying "we're doing this" and then he kinda goes along with it. But internally he doesn't conform it's just he seems unable to tell people to "piss off" as much as he would like.

Allegedly he's become a softer person with the influence of his hometown and family. He lived in a different state for 8 years and one of his good friends visiting remarked that he seemed cute around me, and cute was the last word that would normally come to mind regarding the guy. He said rather the words would be moody and sarcastic but hilarious at the same time. So when I asked dude about this he claimed that he was unhappy being isolated from him family and hometown and it made him antagonistic to strangers.

He claims his persona is what Michael Stipe described as "loud shy"-he feels awkward on an almost constant basis so he puts on a goofy, friendly persona and does over-the-top things (sarcastic jokes, silly T-shirts, pranks on coworkers) so that social interactions are easier.

Actually I've seen his value system come out one day. He had worked a lot to redesign his website and then he showed it to a couple people at work the day before it was supposed to go live. They told him it was company policy that you couldn't use anything you'd worked on for them, which was news to him. So he was considering quitting rather than not have his website look like he wanted it to and represent him and his uniqueness. He confronted his boss in an angry/angsty email (which he showed me) that talked about how it had hurt his feelings that they wouldn't let him express himself creatively and that he lived for work and this was the most important thing to him. Actually that strategy got their attention and he ended up being allowed to put up the site like he wanted to.

He also said once that masculinity isn't inherent, it has to be earned, and his sense of masculinity is tied to having meaningful work and hard work in general. That it's emasculating to him to have work that isn't challenging but that he also feels guilt about not being willing to do actual hard labor like other previous men in his family (construction and manual labor type stuff). He's much better educated than his family and I think he feels an odd guilt that he wants more out of life in terms of work and economic status than they did. He has a contingency of good friends in Portland, all web design/computer geeks and he really loves visiting them and seems to long to be part of that hipster cool crowd. But he also feels this need to stay close to family.

I'm an only child who never had close relatives and grew up with my mom, he's from a large (to me) family with three brothers and too many cousins to keep track of. So maybe those differences are environment/situation rather than personality?

Hope that helped!

 

[JustHer]

Sounds kind of infp, though you would probably be a better judge of that heh.

Maybe ISFP too, I haven't read this entire thread yet.

My INFP friend also first refused to take the test because she felt the attempt to categorize her personality was an insult to her individuality or something like that. Could be an Fi thing?

 

[BlueScreen]

I'm lost on it. Is ENTP an option? Does he talk about pretty high level things with a really wide range of people? I saw he thought he could cruise most things, likes the sarcasm and silliness, worked well with a range of N types.

 

[Synarch]

Sounds like ENTP.

 

[CunningLinguist]

Interesting. So are ENTPs prone to being illogical? I don't know that I've ever met one. I honestly think I'm less emotional than he is which can't really be true if he's ENTP. I guess it's less-developed extraverted feeling that's leading to the outpouring of stuff?

 

[BlueScreen]

Interesting. So are ENTPs prone to being illogical? I don't know that I've ever met one. I honestly think I'm less emotional than he is which can't really be true if he's ENTP. I guess it's less-developed extraverted feeling that's leading to the outpouring of stuff?

Hmmm... maybe get an idea of what Ne dominant types look like. Type "youtube ENTP" and "youtube ENFP" into google and have a look through people's videos. Both ENP types are easy to spot once you know what they look like (dominant Ne isn't really mistakable). If he is nothing like them, we can rule them out.

Read the ENTP Profile if you want also. They are normally quite social, good at reading people and have very good interpersonal and language skills. I'd probably call them intelligent all-rounders as opposed to thinkers. I wouldn't call them illogical or emo though.

There was a lot that made me think ENTP or ENFP in the earlier posts. Are there any letters or types you were leaning toward from what you know of him? In what way is he emotional and illogical?

 

[CunningLinguist]

So the ENTP and ENFP videos I saw were ehh...kinda. Mostly because of the silly, and definitely more the ENFP than the ENTP. But they didn't seem quite right. He does make his cat dance like a person a lot and pretends his cat is talking to him. They have lengthy conversations sometimes. I could see an ENFP doing that. But I think any N would find that type of thing funny.

I'd been thinking INFJ and INFP actually and then always stray to considering other NF or NT types but keep coming back to INFP or INFJ. Also I saw two videos of male INFJ and INFP and they seemed more accurate...possibly more the INFJ than the INFP, but both seemed close.

I had thought one of these two types because: the dude gets upset. A lot. And it seems to always relate to interactions with people, he seems sensitive to people being upset or to any discord in a group. I've said earlier that he is very emotionally open with me but that's not entirely true...it's just that when it comes out it tends to keep coming out. And it tends to be the same issue. And it also tends to be an issue that I would have but I feel like it's always presented in a slightly different way than I would present it. Possibly just slightly more negative and actually I think more dramatically. As to the illogical, he seems to always be upset about the same thing and there's no resolution, particularly regarding him thinking he's doing something to scare me off, and that's frustrating because I dislike feeling unhelpful and I dislike him fearing my feelings because what can I do? I told him I loved him but he keeps forcing the issue it seems.

This venting of any emotional attachment to me took a few months, he seemed to have his guard up for awhile. I think that was because I was gone for a month in Europe and he assumed I'd find someone else and forget him, then I was in California for 6 weeks and again he thought I'd disappear. But now that I've been back the angst comes out. And the angst he tells me about is told to me and possibly his best friend and her husband. The rest of the world gets to hear about his feelings at times (by that I mean his coworkers) but a filtered version, mostly involving what I would imagine SJs would consider distractingly goofy behavior. He seems to enjoy having conversation focused on him when he's around his friends about as much as I do around mine. And like me he's mostly letting others talk when not with his people, unless they're an E, which seems to get him excited.

I've thought I vs. E in general because I don't think an E would refer to their house as a Fortress of Solitude and have me be the only company. He's lived there more than a year and (allegedly) in that time I'm the only person who's seen it. His best friend and her husband and his family are all not invited into his "space". I wasn't right away either, he said he needed it to be prepared first. I vaguely understand this but am more likely to be like "Come in, sorry for the mess" than to need advanced warning. In fact the second time he was ever in my apartment he commented on a pile on the sofa. That offended me and I said "Well just go away if it bothers you". He found this reaction amusing but I was completely serious-you're invited into my mess but comment on it and the claws come out!!

He generally appears calm and friendly but quiet around strangers, and usually waits until a topic of interest comes up to speak after the initial "hi!" He does best in one-on-one conversations or with his coworkers talking about things relating to design, football, pop culture, and questioning their taste. At times this makes me think of him as a more judgmental type than I am, I feel like I respect people's view that aren't like my own more and don't write people off as some negative category within two seconds based on what shirt they have on. He does that any time he's in public. But I suspect it's entirely rooted in a feeling of not belonging to any group, not feeling a sense of identity through categorization. That fits INFP me pretty well. Like me, in public he just loves people watching and gets weird ideas to scribble in notebooks at 2 a.m. from such observations. Which brings up another suspected INFJ/INFP thing-secret desire to be a cafe bum/writer around the world and just experience life yet lacking the confidence/planning skills to actually ever do this. Another thing we have in common.

Oh and he still has a gray teddy bear from when he was little and it's his alternate persona. I read somewhere that this stuffed animal as persona thing is very INFJ. As a child of I think 10 he asked about Santa and his mom told him Santa wasn't real. He cried the entire day. And any time his football team lost as a child he would go under the table and cry. These are the types of stories his mom and grandma seem to remember best about him. I suppose because they seem like "odd" behavior for a boy. This whole shattering of illusions thing seems pretty NF.

He abhors small talk, got irritated with the question "how are you" (too difficult to describe, as he could go on an on about emotional state, he said), fears the phone because he thinks his voice is awkward and girly. Oh and the night we met he said "I wonder if you're like me. Nobody ever is". That came after we both were talking about weird premonitory dreams or feelings we've had where we know about stuff before it happens. That's allegedly an INFP/INFJ trait from stuff I've read.

I guess what made me doubt these two types was that I don't seem to completely understand him and for some reason I think I would completely understand a fellow INFP or INFJ. I assume that because INFPs are good people people this should make typing automatic. The thing that most makes me question INFP or INFJ-ness is the greater use of sarcasm, which I find hilarious but which can be mean too. I find that I feel offended by him at times and again I presume an INFP or INFJ wouldn't offend me-that is, my INFP and INFJ friends don't offend me. And they also seem happier. He may just have a lot of non-type related...actually not may, DOES have a lot of non-type related issues that I think are also confusing things. I think he just feels more high-maintenance than an INFP or INFJ would.

Sorry for the long response! Hopefully more info is helpful ?

 

[OrangeAppled]

He sounds ISFP, like really, really ISFP . Fi is rather abstract on it's own, plus ISFPs have tertiary Ni, which is why ISFPs seem to bridge the gap between SPs and NFs (IMO).

 

[BlueScreen]

Maybe INFJ. You will have Fi conflicting with Fe sometimes, that could be where you see things as mean. ISFP, INFP, and INFJ seem good options. All three can be confident when it comes to their ability also.

INFJs you might find illogical because they use little logic externally. They seem to make claims about things without giving much of a supporting argument. Often they are pretty right though.

 

[incubustribute]

-Said he didn't want to do MBTI because he didn't want to be categorized or typed. Also stated "there's no such thing as introverts or extroverts, people are just 'verts".

OMG this screams Ne (don't categorize me or put me in a box! Your box is stupid, and my imagination is superior)

-Web designer, gets unnerved when there are changes at work like last week when a guy he socializes with outside of work was moved into the position of being his boss due to company-wide restructuring. He always takes such things personally. He has a fear he's being pushed out/getting fired any day.

Fe (this thing that this person did bothers me, and I take offense at it!)

Claims that he deliberately tries to get attention by showing up to work later and later so that they will either a) fire him or b) confront him about it, when he tells them to give him more work. Once they give him more work he starts coming in on time or early.

Ne (how dare you try to put me in a box? I'll make my own box!)

Also enjoys saying mean/innappropriate things around his mother for entertainment because they always shock her. She seems very SFJ, and was disappointed in him for his Halloween costume (priest robe w/Norwegian death metal makeup) when he went as Judas Priest.

Sounds Ne, Ti. "I find your social rules exhausting and illogical, so I'll use my insidey smarts to serve my outgoing intuition and come up with a clever joke to subtly poke fun at you."

-Says people accuse him of lacking morals because he acts however he wants but that he does have them-he has his own created internal value system.

This is basically the definition of Fi, which throws off the type that I thought I was seeing pretty clearly, but alas, I shall continue...

-Says he views sex and romance as separate, the romance is laying around talking, saying 'I love you' (which he wants to do way more than me-he said it first, just randomly blurted it out one day), cuddling, spending time together but sex is done because it feels good. He describes me as wonderful and perfect with unnerving frequency. Again, it feels weird to me to be outwardly expressive of such things. And after he asked and I told him I loved him back he checked again a couple weeks later, and has done so. He seems to need reassurance that I haven't run away yet.

This is a tough call. The separating of romance and sex sound like some kind of Ti categorization, although the need for approval and reassurance screams Fe. Hmmm, we're getting somewhere.

He also seems to really like my mom, she's an ISTJ. A couple times I've complained about things she does that I find annoying and he sides with her, saying something like "that's how a mother should be".

Again, Ti claiming logic in a vacuum. "Well this is how it should be ideally."

In terms of friends, he seems to have many acquaintances (just like me) but only a couple actual friendships that he maintains longer than the duration of social activity (like working in the same place).

Ahh, now here's an indication of introversion that I was looking for.

Okay, if you've made it down here congrats! Type away!

Oh, and I will.
So far I'm seeing Ne, Fe, Ti, and Fi (occasionally). This doesn't yield a perfect Myers Briggs type, however, we can assume that something doesn't fit. I say that the Fi is a learned addition to the Fe, which he has (subconsciously) developed to add dimension to his irrational judging function. In his case, I believe it to be the tertiary. This also makes sense because there is much debate within the Myers Briggs/Jung community about which attitude the tertiary sits in (I/E) Some claim it's both.
Anyway, I see a pretty obvious ENTP, but I think INTP or maaaaaybe ENFP could also be argued. ENTP does fit with the slight slight preference toward introversion that you indicated - ENTP is the most introverted of E types, and is difficult to type as a result in some cases.

Damn...I need a lot less substance in my posts from now on if I'm going to get my count high enough for the custom title

 

[incubustribute]

So the ENTP and ENFP videos I saw were ehh...kinda. Mostly because of the silly, and definitely more the ENFP than the ENTP. But they didn't seem quite right. He does make his cat dance like a person a lot and pretends his cat is talking to him. They have lengthy conversations sometimes. I could see an ENFP doing that. But I think any N would find that type of thing funny.

Eh, I'm ISFJ and I do this all the time with my girlfriend's cat. It's hilarious! I think it's just normal pet-lover behavior.

 

[BlueScreen]

I give my dog quality time and pep talks. I'd make him dance, but he doesn't like it.

 

[CunningLinguist]

Hmm. Very very interesting to go back and read these postings...we've got ISFP, INFJ, INFP, ENFP, INTP, and ENTP being argued.

I'm pretty sure he's not INFP, he just seems too blunt to be one. Also I found out this morning that a friend of ours is INFP. He often makes fun of this friend's "gullible" nature and seems to view him as someone that he can play pranks on and as someone who is "too nice". For instance, one day on Twitter he claimed that he shaved his beard and this friend believed him. So he decided to see how long he could fool him, letting me and some other mutual friends in on the joke. He managed to fool him online for a week by getting other friends to Tweet about his lack of a beard or even posting photos implying he was sans beard until the two finally ran into one another in person. He seems to enjoy this type of pranking, but only as long as he can do it safely from his computer. He thinks of himself as extroverted online but not in person, which is true. In person he doesn't really stand out.

Over the weekend I was interacting with him and his family again. He seems to enjoy what in linguistics we call problematizing-introducing a narrative to a group to have them align with his opinion that the other party was incorrect in their actions. In this case, complaining about what I'd said on the phone to my dad about him...how I had described him, actually. Perhaps that's Ne getting upset?

He was complaining that I had characterized him as a nerd because I mentioned where he got his degree, his occupation and his interest in Sci Fi. It didn't matter how many times I explained to him that this information was given because they were similarities my dad and he had which would give them common ground to like one another...my describing him in any way was apparently inappropriate.

It would never occur to me to talk to anyone about his actions (publicly anyway! ) so I find this an example of what to me appears as judgmental and borderline rude behavior. He has explained before that it is entertaining to him to complain to his family about me because it upsets his mom.

Is any of this even healthy type behavior? I suspect it could just be anger issues towards his family and what seems like a need for attention stemming from the fact that his father allegedly ignored him although he was physically present.

 

[une_autre]

I'm no typing expert, but to my layman eyes, he seems like an INFJ.
Actually I am pretty sure that he is an F and an N.

I would guess that in this case he refused to take the test because of some underlying fear that he won't be as high as your expectations of something like this.