Fidelia XNFJ?

[Siúil a Rúin]

I think the most ideal situation I've had was living in a four-plex of apartments. I had my own apartment, but my boyfriend was next door and a close friend was across the way. If I wanted a 10 minute chat or someone to exercise with, there was someone around, but if I wanted to be alone, I could be. I liked actually some things about living in a little village of teachers, despite it getting rather small at times. You could have someone over or go for a walk or go to town for groceries without it turning into an all evening event.

That sounds about right. I find I need a confidant. For me the ideal is a hermit buddy. Groups of people wear me down, but sharing silence with a trusted friend is rather important to me.

 

[Fidelia]

Yep, even reading in the same room, or sleeping while someone putters around in the kitchen is tremendously satisfying to me.

 

[Snow Turtle]

Well from the posts I've seen in the past. You do give off a similar vibe with the details and delving into topics but I'm not sure I'll chalk that down to Si of an ISFJ. The vibe that I'm talking about is the whole analytical to try and figure out how everything works. I don't know if you have a low level of Ni, but I can say that your Ti is definitely up there with alot of focus on people Fe. I'd say more so than myself... where I'm Si+Ti focused on Fe.

So if you ever did do the functional tests I would expect it to look a little like
Fe ~ Ti ~ Ni > Other functions > Se

 

[BlackCat]

I think that fidelia is an INFJ, but some form of enneagram 2w1 or 1w2. That may be where you think you're ENFJ, because of the enneagram 2 factor in play and not relating to your type 4 INFJ brethren. Type 4 and type 2 are pretty different, even though they have some similarities within the theory.

Also, have you looked into the enneagram's instinctual variants? That could also clear some things up. It's unusual for an introvert to be an sx/so (like myself, which caused a lot of E/I confusion for me early on until I discovered the instincts), most introverts are sp of some sort. So if you're an odd introvert as well that may also clear some things up. I could send you some descriptions if you'd like.

I just think that the enneagram is the key to understanding here.

 

[OrangeAppled]

does 2w1 make sense based on her style of posts? i just get a 4w5 self-understanding reading immediately. i always see new things when reading her posts about relationships, her understandings of how she relates to other types are very detailed, and and she seems to have the 5 wing rigor, emphasis on knowledge, investment in thought, etc. but less detached than a 5w4, more emphasis on inner foundational stability.

I don't know about enneagram correlating to a counselor type of INFJ. 2w1 seems service-oriented, and that's not how I see counseling. I think it's less about comfort and nurture than opening people's eyes a bit. I think it takes what you've described as a 4w5 to do this. If someone is seeking and values inner stability for themself, I think it enables them to aid others in getting there. It takes an intense person to counsel well, IMO.

 

[Fidelia]

Man, I just went through my sent messages to find my functions and enneagram test results. Note to self - start properly naming my messages instead of just re:!

 

[Synarch]

I can relate to this. I have lived such a solitary existence, in general, my whole life, and living alone is less than ideal for my disposition. It's not that I don't enjoy my time alone and solitary activities, because I absolutely do (and I'm a pretty hardcore introvert, as those things go); it's more that over time I am beginning to find a mostly-solitary life, with little interaction, rather meaningless in the big picture. Also, entertaining myself endlessly becomes pretty ho-hum after a while. I may only get close to a few people, but I could be around those people almost 24/7 - even without speaking, being in the same *vicinity*/space as someone I like/love makes a world of difference.

Being alone all the time is life as masturbation.

 

[Fidelia]

??? Elaborate please? Or was there some kind of typo there?

 

[Synarch]

??? Elaborate please? Or was there some kind of typo there?

Sexuality means more than just feeling explicit sexual desire. Sexuality is an intrinsic quality of human interactions. Give and take. Back and forth. Active and passive. In this sense, sex is life. Involvement. Being affected and affecting.

RELATIONSHIP.

When we separate from others we are not partaking in life. Just as masturbation is a procreative dead end, being too much alone is a creative dead end. Creativity is sexual. Life is sexual. Without relationship, we lose something fundamental and human.

 

[Fidelia]

So what you're saying is that life without the regular give and take of interaction with people could be likened to the two-dimensionality of masturbation compared to the give and take of sex with another person?

I feel like I need alone time to process my interactions, but I need interactions to make my alone time worthwhile or to progress in my thoughts.

 

[Synarch]

So what you're saying is that life without the regular give and take of interaction with people could be likened to the two-dimensionality of masturbation compared to the give and take of sex with another person?

I feel like I need alone time to process my interactions, but I need interactions to make my alone time worthwhile or to progress in my thoughts.

Yes.

We need both. Just as we need to feel connected and yet independent.

 

[the state i am in]

yeah without communication it all falls apart rather quickly. the balance is better bc our rate of change is slowed. we stop spiking, we stop picking our scabs and tearing off our bandages before we are healed. but we die a slow and painful death bc our condition is terminal regardless. but it's easier in some ways to check out in the express lane, conserve our human energies, and hibernate for winter when winter will surely come.

 

[entropie]

try entp for a change and the sky is the limit

 

[Totenkindly]

You've never strucken me as an ENFJ. It seems liek you collect your thoughts, then explain them, often taking up much space to do so [not a criticism there], and going into much detail. From what I've seen, ENFJ's don't [seem to] think so long and hard, and DEFINITELY don't give multiparagraph detailed answers. Most answers I've seen from them are top level and short. For example "I don't believe in ____" as compared with "here are the 15 reasons with associated explanation of why I don't believe in___"

Yes, the 'focus' issue is one that lends more credibility to INFJ. ENFJs are more diffuse.

"I" tends to lend itself to a single point that runs deep, "E" tends to express itself as a "particle cloud" with pretty broad coverage as its starting point.

It's not rare for introverts to class themselves as their secondary, especially if they're been forced to develop and use it extensively as their window into community and external reality.

In terms of vibe, you and Toonia remind me of each other.

 

[Sarcasticus]

I think that fidelia is an INFJ, but some form of enneagram 2w1 or 1w2. That may be where you think you're ENFJ, because of the enneagram 2 factor in play and not relating to your type 4 INFJ brethren. Type 4 and type 2 are pretty different, even though they have some similarities within the theory.

Yes, she also strikes me as having a very high level of Fe.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

In terms of vibe, you and Toonia remind me of each other.

It is interesting that we both teach music. Besides MBTI considerations, I do think a great deal of my cognitive processing is influenced by the study of music. This is because music synthesizes diverse elements into a single, coherent whole. Teaching music requires the ability to understand how all these elements integrate, but then to be able to break it apart into layers and smaller pieces the student can absorb. I think that could be an element in posting style that deals with layered issues and then breaks them down with an attempt to be complete. I definitely see that in fidelia's posts.

 

[Totenkindly]

It is interesting that we both teach music. Besides MBTI considerations, I do think a great deal of my cognitive processing is influenced by the study of music. This is because music synthesizes diverse elements into a single, coherent whole. Teaching music requires the ability to understand how all these elements integrate, but then to be able to break it apart into layers and smaller pieces the student can absorb. I think that could be an element in posting style that deals with layered issues and then breaks them down with an attempt to be complete. I definitely see that in fidelia's posts.

Good post, and that is definitely a big part of why I experience you both similarly via this medium.

 

[Fidelia]

Very interesting - I hadn't thought about that before, although Sarcasticus and I had discussed the possibility of how teaching could influence functions used or developed. I think any teaching, but particularly music really emphasizes those skills. I wonder how much choice of work/skills needed/interests pursued and developed influences a person's basic personality and style of relating to people then...

I find that I rarely would expound as much verbally as I would in writing. I think that's one reason why writing is a pleasant medium for me. I feel like those who are interested will read what I write, while those who aren't have the option of ignoring it without seeming rude or rejecting as they may appear in person if they did that.

I think there are times when being able to break things down in the way that seems natural to me is useful. However there are times when an overview is much better. I know INFJs can have a tendancy when they are overwhelmed to see more trees and no forest. For example, if I am writing a paper, it can sometimes be a problem because there are too many little extraneous pieces of information that I want to fit in. I know they aren't necessary, but then it becomes overwhelming to know what to get rid of. The ESTJ I knew was excellent at this. Any ideas for developing this ability? What function would that be?

 

[cascadeco]

Being alone all the time is life as masturbation.

Yeah, I am inclined to agree. Although I can feel the rush of life, and life itself, when I am alone, Life is much more 'real' in the context of sharing/experiencing with others, and attains more richness, depth, and meaning. And agree re. being solitary all of the time is in effect not participating/interacting with life itself; it's almost like keeping life at bay - at a distance. Putting a wall up between yourself and the life around you.

(I would say this could be also why I love nature so much. I feel a part of things, I feel and recognize my connection to the life around me...and hence don't necessarily feel alone.)

 

[Totenkindly]

I think there are times when being able to break things down in the way that seems natural to me is useful. However there are times when an overview is much better. I know INFJs can have a tendancy when they are overwhelmed to see more trees and no forest. For example, if I am writing a paper, it can sometimes be a problem because there are too many little extraneous pieces of information that I want to fit in. I know they aren't necessary, but then it becomes overwhelming to know what to get rid of.

I have that problem too. For me, it's more Ti -- because I am trying to nuance the truth as finely as possible and I feel like to remove any is to change the context of the facts I am presenting, thus "muddying" them.

The ESTJ I knew was excellent at this. Any ideas for developing this ability? What function would that be?

Most likely Te -- it sacrifices nuance for practicality and worries about what is effective and gets one to the goal, rather than how specifically accurate the nuances are (except in how dropping the nuances might derail progress towards the goal). Te wants to get to the desired outcome and other priorities are secondary.

From this, we get the typical "funnel down / funnel out" paper format -- an opening point, three supporting points, then the main point restated.