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Is My Mom an ENFJ or ESFJ?

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Ginkgo

Guest
For a lengthy period of time, I presumed that my mother was an ESFP because of her social nature and her enormous generosity. However, after taking the test in my Please Understand Me II book, she revealed herself to be an EnFJ/EsFJ (11 points in N and 9 points in S). I was quite astounded by this, and I concluded that either a) I was bad at typing people, or b) appearances can be deceiving.

However, I would still like to confirm what type she is with external input. The primary question is - does she use auxiliary Ni or Si?

-She is very disorganized, however, she wishes she could have someone to organize things for her. (She often wants other people to do menial tasks ). Unfortunately, she has somewhat of a hoarding habit.

-On the other hand, she would sometimes come into my room and reorganized it.

-When she came into my room, she would often zero in on something that was specifically interesting to her. (Tertiary Se?)

-She is extremely social, and will often act as if she knows her subject without ever meeting them.

-She feels that it is her responsibility to be outgoing and friendly to a degree that is sometimes embarrassing for me. She waves at people she doesn't know and frequently asks for directions. She feels as if she is one with the community. (definitely Fe)

-She likes exquisite things, and will often feel the need to dine at expensive restaurants. She often asks me "Is the food good?" (Fe or Si?)

-She used to be a school teacher (special ed, elementary, and high school). She loves working with children, and she often uses visual representations to explain things. (For instance, she will take a fork to symbolize a car in a car wreck, or use my Please Understand Me II book to symbolize a balance between Sensing and iNtuition dichotomies.)

-She is very intelligent, and she has a wide vocabulary.

-She will often plan things out on scrap pieces of paper; writing down names, phone numbers, things to do etc.

-She enjoys reading self help books, psychology books, and child developmental books.

-For a long time, I believed that she had trouble planning things. (Or at least predicting future scenarios). However, her assumptions are more often correct than incorrect. Quite honestly, this irks me because my Ne tends to portray the worst future outcomes possible.

-She seems rather bull headed when she has an agenda. In fact, most of the time, she does not appreciate outside input. Fortunately, she has accumulated habits of asking me for insight. I can only speculate that this is a result of my self-education and increasing "social worth". (Does this sound bad? haha)

-Sometimes she laughs at things that seem socially awkward. For instance, when she was reading my book, one of the questions was "Do you often daydream of fantasies?". She found this amusing for some reason.

-I really love her. She has always been accepting of my wild imagination and funny quirks. She often encouraged me to be successful in any field I desired. :hug:

-When she is with officials, teachers, counselors, or friends, she often feels the need to provide paper work for them. In fact, she often gathers extra brochures in anticipation that she will inform her friends of some interesting subject matter.

-She excels at writing.

-She often feels the need to pinpoint errors in grammar and in spelling. Every time she finds an error in a book, she thinks it's a shame that the publishers paid editors who did not do their job well. (Maybe this comes from her teaching background, or Si, or something. I'm not sure.)

-She enjoys celebrating birthdays and anniversaries. However, she is not adamant about annual celebrations like Christmas or Halloween.

-She feels that it is important to use the postal delivery system to write formal congratulatory or regretful letters. She has yet to adapt to computer technology or email. Maybe this is because she lacks interest, or because my father handles most of the electronic aspects of her life.

-She was involved in many extracurricular activities in high school and in college.

-She has always been devoutly religious, and she feels that it is her duty to aid people in her church.

-I asked her "Which one do you feel is more important - The solution to a problem or the process in which you obtained the solution?", to which she retorted "I believe that the process is more important because it is the only means by which you can get a solution". I do not know if this is an Ni response, because my Ne response is "You can apply the process to various other problems in hopes of more solutions".

-Whenever she does something "wrong" in the eyes of my father or myself, she exclaims "Well, everyone does that!".

-Whenever she is with my dog, she has the tendency to animate the dog with her voice. For instance, if he is hungry, she will say something like "Ohh I want some cheese! I'm so cute, so give me some cheese!" :wtf:

I can't really think of anything else significant right now. Ask me questions if you have any.

-EDIT: Oh yes, when she has a plan about something, she is rather uninformative about it. She probably expects others to understand it without any presupposition.

-She doesn't really have any trouble talking about abstract concepts. (Especially if she has a great deal of information regarding the subject at hand). However, she prefers to talk about what has happened in the past in a sequential order.
 

incubustribute

New member
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
297
MBTI Type
ISFJ
Oh, yes, she also says that she relates more to the ENFJ description.

I think a lot of S's envy iNtuition. They'll see it on the description and then think, "well golly, I WISH I could do that... *mental checkmark*." I desperately wish I was INFJ, but alas, I don't constantly question things like most of them do. My Ni is (for all intents and purposes) nonexistent, so I just try to improve my inferior Ne.

Anyway, this isn't about me :doh:

I'm not quite sure if I see any secondary Ni that might indicate ENFJ, but on the other hand, she's the best authority, not me. But I'm definitely noticing a VERY definitive tendency to micro-manage, which would explain dominant Fe, secondary Si. I'm sticking to my original guess - ESFJ.
 

incubustribute

New member
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
297
MBTI Type
ISFJ
oh btw, animating animals with the voice is something all animal lovers do haha. I do it to my girlfriend's cat, and it makes me feel like he's a person, not an animal. I'm not sure if that kind of thing is indicative of any type.
 
G

Ginkgo

Guest
I think a lot of S's envy iNtuition. They'll see it on the description and then think, "well golly, I WISH I could do that... *mental checkmark*." I desperately wish I was INFJ, but alas, I don't constantly question things like most of them do. My Ni is (for all intents and purposes) nonexistent, so I just try to improve my inferior Ne.

Anyway, this isn't about me :doh:

I'm not quite sure if I see any secondary Ni that might indicate ENFJ, but on the other hand, she's the best authority, not me. But I'm definitely noticing a VERY definitive tendency to micro-manage, which would explain dominant Fe, secondary Si. I'm sticking to my original guess - ESFJ.

Yeah, I have to agree with you. I was taken aback to see that she tested as an iNtuitive, because she seemed to have some communication blocks with my INFP father and I. Mind-boggling :shock:.
 

Lux

Kraken down on piracy
Joined
Aug 6, 2009
Messages
1,458
My mother in law straddles the ESFJ/ENFJ line (to me she is unquestionably an ESFJ), your mom and she sound eerily alike. One reason I think ESFJ for my MIL is she has a really hard time 'getting' myself and my ENTJ husband when we all have conversations. I feel like our N moments embarrasses her or she just doesn't seem to know how to respond. Obviously that's not the only reason, there are more. For your mom though, I'd say ESFJ.
 
G

Ginkgo

Guest
My mother in law straddles the ESFJ/ENFJ line (to me she is unquestionably an ESFJ), your mom and she sound eerily alike. One reason I think ESFJ for my MIL is she has a really hard time 'getting' myself and my ENTJ husband when we all have conversations. I feel like our N moments embarrasses her or she just doesn't seem to know how to respond. Obviously that's not the only reason, there are more. For your mom though, I'd say ESFJ.

I can relate. For example, my dad and I often talk about political and spiritual notions. Sometimes it can get extremely vague and intangible, yet we can still understand each other.

My mom usually sits on the sidelines. I do not know if this is because she is disinterested or if she just can't grasp what we are saying.
 

Lux

Kraken down on piracy
Joined
Aug 6, 2009
Messages
1,458
I can relate. For example, my dad and I often talk about political and spiritual notions. Sometimes it can get extremely vague and intangible, yet we can still understand each other.

My mom usually sits on the sidelines. I do not know if this is because she is disinterested or if she just can't grasp what we are saying.

I know what you mean. I think (at least with my MIL) it's a bit of both. She seems to enjoy talking of current events more than anything.
 
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Speed Gavroche

Whisky Old & Women Young
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
5,152
MBTI Type
EsTP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I'd say ESFJ but ENFJ and next ESFP are probably the closest type then.
 
G

Ginkgo

Guest
Compared to other ESFJs I have met, she is not nearly as obtrusive. Nor is she as insensitive toward others' feelings. (No offense to ESFJs here, the one's that I have met are just immature teenage boys).
 
G

Glycerine

Guest
Well, try to have a philosophical conversation with her. If her eyes start glazing over after a minute, then most likely she's ESFJ. That's like the huge difference between my ESFJ dad and I. I love vague, philosophical, theoretical conversations which he gets rather impatient with. He would much rather deal w/ practical matters which tend to bore me. Also, he tends to blow up at annoyances in the present while I freak out about possible things that might occur in the future. Your mom sounds like a borderline S.
 

proteanmix

Plumage and Moult
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
5,514
Enneagram
1w2
Hello Tater Tot. EnFJ or EsFJ here. Please define philosophical and deep conversations plz.

It seems to me people have very strict ideas about what constitutes abstract topics, which basically means anything that's religious or classically philosophical.

If someone asked me what the meaning of life is or is there a God, I'd pluck my eyes out of their sockets and squish them in their face. Those are such hackneyed topics!

One of several questions I've been cogitating about lately is "how are women socialized to view, treat, acquire, and spend money?" Is that deep?
 
G

Glycerine

Guest
One of several questions I've been cogitating about lately is "how are women socialized to view, treat, acquire, and spend money?" Is that deep?
yes, in my mind, it is. If I asked my dad that question, he would just glaze over because to him, there would be no immediate practicality to the question or maybe he's just not very fond of Ti. Don't get me wrong, he's a very smart man but he just doesn't like going "deep" like that. But then again, people tell me I'm a very analytical person so that might have skewed the compare-contrast. I might rely on Ti way too much because of school.
 

proteanmix

Plumage and Moult
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
5,514
Enneagram
1w2
yes, in my mind, it is. If I asked my dad that question, he would just glaze over because to him, there would be no immediate practicality to the question or maybe he's just not very fond of Ti. Don't get me wrong, he's a very smart man but he just doesn't like going "deep" like that.

But why use your father as the exemplar of what an ESFJ will talk about or is like? I had this conversation with my two ESFJ coworkers last week and I felt it was a good 30 minute or so conversation (had to get back to work!). A question like that has much immediate practical value, just depends on how you flavor it.

I feel like I live in a perpetual :rolli:. I need to stop opening threads that have ESFJ in the title.
 
G

Ginkgo

Guest
Hello Tater Tot. EnFJ or EsFJ here. Please define philosophical and deep conversations plz.
Ok. For instance, what are the best government relations for a free market and why? Does God exist? What constitutes God existing? What is morality? Why is it important? If you woke up tomorrow and you were a purple flamingo, what would you do?
One of several questions I've been cogitating about lately is "how are women socialized to view, treat, acquire, and spend money?" Is that deep?
Yes, this is a good example. Many cultures have a history of viewing women as subordinates, and therefore these (usually Patriarchal) societies have a tendency to suppress females' economic rights. I could go on, but that topic is very deep and expansive.

@ Piseleh - I actually talked with my mom about the existence of God last night. She asked me several questions about what I viewed as "ethical", and then she tried to couple my philosophies with those of Jesus in an attempt to sway my argument. It was actually quite devious of her. :D I'll start to experiment with more questions.

I have to say that typing my family members has really shattered my misconceptions about them. I'm not as pessimistic as I once was. :wubbie:
 
G

Glycerine

Guest
But why use your father as the exemplar of what an ESFJ will talk about or is like? I had this conversation with my two ESFJ coworkers last week and I felt it was a good 30 minute or so conversation (had to get back to work!). A question like that has much immediate practical value, just depends on how you flavor it.

I feel like I live in a perpetual :rolli:. I need to stop opening threads that have ESFJ in the title.
Well, my bad. He's the one that came to my head but not necessary the best example. We all have our biases but I will be the first one to admit that I don't always have the greatest opinion of ESFJs. There's some that I really like though... the N/S divide seems to be the biggest clash for me. That's not to say that I think N is better than S. There's many things that he's much better at than I am (details, planning, knows the best practical solutions, much better at following directions, takes things as they come, good dresser, really good at history, very scheduled, better work ethic, etc...)
 
G

Glycerine

Guest
@ Piseleh - I actually talked with my mom about the existence of God last night. She asked me several questions about what I viewed as "ethical", and then she tried to couple my philosophies with those of Jesus in an attempt to sway my argument. It was actually quite devious of her. :D I'll start to experiment with more questions.

I have to say that typing my family members has really shattered my misconceptions about them. I'm not as pessimistic as I once was. :wubbie:

I think she's ESFJ... nothing really seems to pointing to N for me.
 
G

Ginkgo

Guest
Well, my bad. He's the one that came to my head but not necessary the best example. We all have our biases but I will be the first one to admit that I don't always have the greatest opinion of ESFJs. There's some that I really like though...N/S divide seems to be the biggest clash for me. That's not to say that I think N is better than S. There's many things that he's much better at than I am.

Avoiding nasty stereotypes of the various archetypes is like walking on landmines. At the same time, you never know whether people are going to take offense or agree with you. It's madness! Madness I say! The best thing to do is to consciously separate individuals from their respective stereotypes so no one else gets hurt.

Yes, you really can't say which one is better (N or S). The only resolute conclusion is that they are different. We should probably be thankful that they are different, after all, society couldn't function in it's present state without either the S's or the N's.
 
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