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Is My Mom an ENFJ or ESFJ?

Lauren Ashley

Revelation
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
3,067
MBTI Type
INFJ
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4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
A lot of this sounds much like my mother; she is also very messy and she can come off as ESFP, but she's ESFJ. I think it's the developed Ne that is giving her an intuitive vibe, and what is making her disorganized. Ni I can pick up right away, so I know it's not Ni and therefore she isn't ENFJ (besides that she's tested ESFJ). My mother likes to talk about her future and self-improvement a lot, which people tend to associate with intuitives...does she do this?
 

proteanmix

Plumage and Moult
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Apr 23, 2007
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OK, I'm not understanding this.

Your mother read the descriptions, took the "tests" and self-typed as ENFJ YET, everyone else is saying she's not. Evidently, the woman isn't entitled to know herself as well as anonymous folks on a website.

I admit, I have very low tolerance for people typing others as ESFJ on this forum based on primarily negative characteristics...I believe someone used "micromanaging" as proof positive she's an ESFJ?

Tater, if you wanted to talk about is there a God, etc I'd exit the conversation ASAP and start talking about the latest celebrity gossip. I have zero interest in discussing such matters. I find topics like that to be the McDonald's of "abstract topics." Novice, easy and convenient, almost rote but you get quick abstract points for participating. To me, they're psuedo-abstract along the lines of "If a tree falls in the woods and there's no one around..." As far as the abstract topics are concerned, I'd try seeing what her interests her abstracting them and seeing how she responds. It seems to me that people are focusing on topics of interest to them and if the other person isn't enthralled, then they're not deep enough.

I also notice that both you and Pitseleh still live at home. I find that a lot of the "defining" ESFJ characteristics tend to come from those who are still dependent on the ESFJ in their life for some reason and are not pleased with the situation. Many of the complaints are like she (typically she) is always focused on cleaning, or something like that. I'm not trivializing legitimate family problems, but I find it hard to take people complaining fairly typical parent-child relationships seriously. If I knew about MBTI when I was a teen, I'm sure my mother would be frontrunner for the most evil ESFJ ever.
 

incubustribute

New member
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Oct 4, 2009
Messages
297
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ISFJ
I admit, I have very low tolerance for people typing others as ESFJ on this forum based on primarily negative characteristics...I believe someone used "micromanaging" as proof positive she's an ESFJ?

:doh:

I believe you are referring to my comment. What about my micro-managing connotation is negative? I certainly didn't mean it that way - micro-managing is extremely useful for most people in a plethora of situations. A lot of important medical jobs (pharmaceutical, pre-surgery assessors, etc.) absolutely require micro-managing skills to ensure the good of the patient, so I can't quite understand your negative definition of the phrase.

Also, if you'll go back and reread my comment, there's a number of things you'll notice. 1) I didn't say it was proof positive, I merely suggested that I was sticking to a guess 2) I gave a pretty good possible reason behind the S/N issue, and the OP agreed with me 3) If you want to go around blaming people for invalidating the individual's take on their own type, the OP is a prime target (no hard feelings, Mystic Tater?). He's the son who is second guessing his mother's type (justifiably, I think) and posting on a forum for opinions to back up his guess. I'm merely commenting as requested. :)

But technically, you are correct - if the mom is answering the test questions honestly, and the test is a good test, then she is in fact ENFJ. But you and I both know how stupid and misleading some of the questions are on the garbage facebook quiz versions of the test (I'm assuming you have facebook, proteanmix?). Even with an ideal perfect test, it's difficult for some less interested folk to take the time to introspect and answer honestly, rather than give the quick answer that sounds better.
 
G

Ginkgo

Guest
A lot of this sounds much like my mother; she is also very messy and she can come off as ESFP, but she's ESFJ. I think it's the developed Ne that is giving her an intuitive vibe, and what is making her disorganized. Ni I can pick up right away, so I know it's not Ni and therefore she isn't ENFJ (besides that she's tested ESFJ). My mother likes to talk about her future and self-improvement a lot, which people tend to associate with intuitives...does she do this?

She mostly talks about the achievements of others like her husband or myself. Evidently she takes pride in her family. She doesn't really talk about self-help, she just does self-help. I would have to say that she is much more inclined to assist others, while sacrificing her own needs.
Occasionally she will talk about her past credentials as a school teacher or what-have-you.

These habits could just be motherly instinct, or pride, or anything. There are too many variables to simply determine what functions are at use here.

I agree with Protean. I am projecting many of my mother's traits from my own perspective as her son. However, my mother isn't always cleaning. She would much rather leave the house to work in a more suitable environment for what she needs to do. She's not exactly the typical 1950's mother who wears an apron and vacuums that dirt outside. She's rebellious in that nature, and she doesn't feel that it's her duty to play maid all day. I respect her for that.

Actually, she is the one who instigated the conversation about God and ethics. She really couldn't care less about celebrities. :spam2:

I acknowledge that this test is designed for self confirmation, and I trust her opinions. The only way I will label her as an ESFJ is if she reforms her opinion with more information.
 

incubustribute

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297
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ISFJ
That's totally fair. I will say I've mistyped several of my friends who knew about MBTI and knew what they were, and once they corrected my mistake, it was usually immediately obvious. Quick example is my roommate, who I originally typed as ISFP, but he corrected me to INFP. Presently I don't know how I missed the N. You've gotta either be them, or know them really well to get the "correct" answer, if there is such a thing. Whereas me, I can only make observations, assess the material presented to me, and then make an educated guess.
 

Lauren Ashley

Revelation
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Aug 19, 2008
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She mostly talks about the achievements of others like her husband or myself. Evidently she takes pride in her family. She doesn't really talk about self-help, she just does self-help. I would have to say that she is much more inclined to assist others, while sacrificing her own needs.

I've known both ENFJ and ESFJ to do this so...hmmm. Perhaps have her take another test (and/or have her read descriptions from bestfittype)? I don't like the PUM ones, FWIW, I score INTJ.
 

proteanmix

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:doh:

I believe you are referring to my comment. What about my micro-managing connotation is negative?

Uh, the very definition of micromanagement is negative.

In business management, micromanagement is a management style where a manager closely observes or controls the work of his or her subordinates or employees. Micromanagement is generally used as a negative term.

I certainly didn't mean it that way - micro-managing is extremely useful for most people in a plethora of situations.

Hardly anyone who is the recipient of a micromanagement style appreciates or would jump to work with a micromanager. It's a style that typically undermines a person's authority and sense of control.

so I can't quite understand your negative definition of the phrase.

See above.

Also, if you'll go back and reread my comment, there's a number of things you'll notice. 1) I didn't say it was proof positive,

You insisted over the span of three posts she was an ESFJ

2) I gave a pretty good possible reason behind the S/N issue,

Yes "micromanager": "I'm definitely noticing a VERY definitive tendency to micro-manage, which would explain dominant Fe, secondary Si. I'm sticking to my original guess - ESFJ."

Which is the only proof you gave other than your anecdotal usage of Ni ("I really don't question much")

and the OP agreed with me 3)

Where's that?

If you want to go around blaming people for invalidating the individual's take on their own type, the OP is a prime target (no hard feelings, Mystic Tater?).

I didn't think Tater was invalidating anything. I think OP was quite neutral to be honest. People will type a person ESFJ based on the thin evidence of them being annoying. And also adept at micromanaging.

He's the son who is second guessing his mother's type (justifiably, I think) and posting on a forum for opinions to back up his guess. I'm merely commenting as requested. :)

That's cool. I just disagree with your assessment.

But technically, you are correct - if the mom is answering the test questions honestly, and the test is a good test, then she is in fact ENFJ. But you and I both know how stupid and misleading some of the questions are on the garbage facebook quiz versions of the test (I'm assuming you have facebook, proteanmix?).

Nope. Don't have an account with Facebook, thank the gods. And 90% of the people on this forum either took the humanmetrics, similarminds, PUM, OKCupid, or some other craptacular MBTI test and their type is pretty much unquestioned. If for every person on this forum we had a family member or friend giving us the real deal on them I'm pretty sure we'd have an MBTI Great Migration.

Even with an ideal perfect test, it's difficult for some less interested folk to take the time to introspect and answer honestly, rather than give the quick answer that sounds better.

True. And Tater said he showed his mommy different descriptions and she still thought ENFJ was a better fit.

As Lauren mentioned the descriptions at Best-Fit Type : Exploring the Multiple Models of Personality Type are great. This is also a good site Myers-Briggs MBTI Personality Type | PersonalityPathways.com.
 

incubustribute

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Uh, the very definition of micromanagement is negative.

Hardly anyone who is the recipient of a micromanagement style appreciates or would jump to work with a micromanager. It's a style that typically undermines a person's authority and sense of control.

Ah. Well it appears I have been mistaken. I really honestly did not mean micromanaging in a negative way...I sort of thought of it as a way to specifically hone in and fix problems in detail, one by one. I haven't yet experienced many jobs where I've heard the term used, so I guess our argument comes down to semantics. My apologies :sorry:
 

dotdalidot

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Apr 3, 2008
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This sounds a lot like my mom too. I've pretty much pegged her as ExFJ, she took the test too and came out ENFJ. Only thing I'm certain about is that she's definitely Fe dom.
 

incubustribute

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What would be a better indication of ESFJ, then? Since the micro-managing label seems to have been labeled as an unethical way of determining type.

I mean, I'm trying to conceptualize Fe and Si, and I can't think of a better way to describe the relationship between those traits other than the above term. They organize their outer world based on how it makes them feel, and then they make observations on the results using concrete senses, no? How else would one describe this process?

:confused:
 
G

Ginkgo

Guest
My mother's not a micro-manager at all, haha. She knows how to handle large groups of people simultaneously.

My parents and I just went out to eat, and throughout that time, she would often make assessments about those around her. Ni?

In an attempt to spark a "philosophical" conversation, I asked her: "What would happen if our educational system were to degrade?" She exclaimed that, for that to happen, our judicial system would have to have been struck down beforehand. All of our current legislation would have to have been reworked. Afterward, we would have to create a new system (hopefully not in accordance with another governmental system such as Communism or something). Her explanation was very linear,and it didn't resemble Ne ramblings at all. It represented a single past-to-future outcome.
 

sciski

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ENFJs don't prefer Ne as a process, and neither do ESFJs, so her reply is somewhat expected.

Here are a couple of other less-MBTI-purist ways to try to tell the difference:

Try figuring out her temperament. ESFJs are Stabilizers/Guardians: The Guardian Temperament and ENFJs are Idealists/Catalysts: The Idealist Temperament

I'm guessing because she's your mum, she would be acting somewhat like a stabilizer to nurture you, and a catalyst because parents tend to want the best for their children. Maybe try figuring out her temperament based on how she interacts with her friends and acquaintances instead.

Another way you can help differentiate ESFJ and ENFJ is to look at her interaction style. ESFJs are "Get Things Going" (Get-Things-Going) while ENFJs are "In Charge" (In-Charge),

Hope these help! Regardless, it's great that you guys have a really good relationship and she sounds like a very lovely person. :)
 

simulatedworld

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Nov 7, 2008
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Yeah, I have to agree with you. I was taken aback to see that she tested as an iNtuitive, because she seemed to have some communication blocks with my INFP father and I. Mind-boggling :shock:.

She actually sounds ENFJ to me. The communication blocks are a result of different kinds of intuition...Ne for you and your Dad vs. Ni for her.
 

sciski

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^ :yes:

-Whenever she is with my dog, she has the tendency to animate the dog with her voice. For instance, if he is hungry, she will say something like "Ohh I want some cheese! I'm so cute, so give me some cheese!" :wtf:

Incidentally, this is perfectly normal behaviour. :D
 

Nigel Tufnel

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Nov 30, 2008
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ENTP
My sister is ESFJ, and doesn't have many of the traits you've listed - she likes to organize her friends' closets. I'd say ESFP or ENFJ, especially the part about vocabulary. ESFJs are often good at asking questions to keep a conversation going, but don't use big words unless absolutely necessary.
 
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