Random thought

[redacted]

+1.





Any INTPs you'd compare yourself to on this score?



I'd say it's the other way around: Extraordinary logic-consciousness doesn't necessarily make you a T.





I think you were more on the money back when you identified with toonia in this post:

But all the things I ascribed to Ni could be ascribed to Ne serving Ti as well. INTP still has Fe, and it would make sense to me that I pumped my Fe as a nurture response.

 

[527468]

Don't worry so much about Ti vs Fe.

Are you sure Ti is your leading function, and not Ni?

Secondly, how is your Se? I'd hate to see someone think an Se type is excluded from intellectual matters.

 

[nightning]

After some thought, I'm gonna go by INTP now, and I think my enneagram type is 9 not 5.

Ne as a Ti slave I think looks like Ni for me.

Just my 2 cents on a very typical INXJ behaviour... made up your mind and declined to talk about the process. But hey, I'm biased as heck.

 

[Economica]

But all the things I ascribed to Ni could be ascribed to Ne serving Ti as well. INTP still has Fe, and it would make sense to me that I pumped my Fe as a nurture response.

I don't see why Ne serving Ti would ever look like Ni. Ne looks like Ne. Where's yours?

I'm also skeptical that an INTP could grow as comfortable with and proficient at using Fe as you are to the point of regretting being unable to turn it down sometimes (I'm paraphrasing here from what I seem to remember from some of your posts; correct me if I'm mistaken), let alone one still in the first half of his twenties.

So I still think your own explanation, which I quoted above, is much more likely.

But if you insist which INTPs do you identify with? Also, how do you feel about the comparison with toonia?

 

[Blackwater]

INFJs who think they're INTPs are just so cute ^_^

 

[Eric B]

I don't see why Ne serving Ti would ever look like Ni. Ne looks like Ne. Where's yours?

Right there! (tossing out possibilities--"could be"s, for explanations).

I'm also skeptical that an INTP could grow as comfortable with and proficient at using Fe as you are to the point of regretting being unable to turn it down sometimes (I'm paraphrasing here from what I seem to remember from some of your posts; correct me if I'm mistaken), let alone one still in the first half of his twenties.

Was he comfortable, or was that a particular stressful situation? (I think he suggested it was). It seems whatever that was, it's not the side of him that usually comes out in all the type discussions. All I've noticed of him is pure logic.

 

[redacted]

I don't see why Ne serving Ti would ever look like Ni. Ne looks like Ne. Where's yours?

Ne could look like Ni if I only say the Ne stuff that's been Ti-razored.

I'm also skeptical that an INTP could grow as comfortable with and proficient at using Fe as you are to the point of regretting being unable to turn it down sometimes (I'm paraphrasing here from what I seem to remember from some of your posts; correct me if I'm mistaken), let alone one still in the first half of his twenties.

I'm not comfortable with Fe at all actually, although I am fairly proficient. Since it expresses itself a lot, I guess maybe it sounds like I'm comfortable with it?

I regret being able to turn it down because it's annoying and gets in my way.

So I still think your own explanation, which I quoted above, is much more likely.

But if you insist which INTPs do you identify with? Also, how do you feel about the comparison with toonia?

I identify with the thought process of all INTPs. I don't necessarily think I'm particularly normal psychologically, though, so I might not look exactly like the prototype.

I also speak like an INTP, especially IRL; I'm fixated on internal consistency to the point that I'll waste a few sentences specifying myself perfectly whenever I make a point.

I relate to lots of INFJs, but I don't think my thought processes really resembles theirs.

 

[Economica]

Ne could look like Ni if I only say the Ne stuff that's been Ti-razored.

... Why has no INTP gone at this yet?

I'm not comfortable with Fe at all actually, although I am fairly proficient. Since it expresses itself a lot, I guess maybe it sounds like I'm comfortable with it?

Poor choice of word. Replace with proficient/expresses itself a lot.

I regret being able to turn it down because it's annoying and gets in my way.

I presume you mean "I regret not being able to turn it down", in which case: My point exactly.

I also speak like an INTP, especially IRL; I'm fixated on internal consistency to the point that I'll waste a few sentences specifying myself perfectly whenever I make a point.

Going by your own statement that you use intellectualization as a defense mechanism, this doesn't seem far-fetched for an INFJ.

Have you checked out Edward Norton? I had the INTPs over at INTPc willingly claim him before meanlittlechimp came along to give us a reality check.

 

[BlueScreen]

I'm guessing in INFJs that Fe is a support for Ni, in the same sense our Fi is a support for Ne. So Fe will be expressed in your decisions, but the goal is intuitive. Deep in your soul as an INFJ you want to learn, not save the world. You'll tell yourself otherwise, but you save the world to understand, or because you understand. You give to learn about human dynamics and support the understanding of self and social networks.

What I think I'm saying is that a dominant intuitive is a scientist at heart, not a feeler. They love understanding relations between things. This may be even analogous to the ENFPs discussing having Ti. Dominant intuitives are thinkers! T is an approach to decision making or concluding a solution where rational logical perspective is taken over personal or social consequences. ie. reverence to logical consistency over effect. If you perceive links between things and understand things in your internal world, that is Ni. You have probably developed some Ti if you are INFJ, but it may be less than you think. In the same way that us ENFPs aren't Ts. I'm only just learning what to do with Te and I'm 27.

I do notice your openness to and drive for logical analysis is higher than many INFJs though. So not positive you are one. Just know that being INFJ is no reason to not be a thinker. In fact the ones I know all consider themselves thinkers and philosophical. And all have good grades.

p.s. I can't completely perceive my mirror type so are having a stab at it in places by analogy. Hopefully it gets it part way there, or enough for the message to get across though. I'd write the whole thing with more tentativeness, but it would make it a mess to read, so just correct me where I'm wrong.

 

[Blackwater]

reading this, i keep comming back to philosophically-oriented INFJs who fall in love with reason and logic and thus give themselves away as INFJs whereas INTPs are rarely seen eulogizing logic in this manner because, existing wholly inside this realm of abstract instinctual reason, they don't have the distance [to this realm] that is needed for such an adoring stance

evan, i don't know you well enough at all, but as an INFJ-turned-INTP i think you should look into personalities such as wittgenstein; he certainly took care to showcase the extreme commitment to consistancy that you describe and did so to a point where many will consider him INTP. - only once you start enquiring into his personality it becomes apparent that fe could in no way play the part of his inferior function


EDIT:

Evan: Our disagreement is a limit of language, not understanding.

In fact, this entire disagreement is due to the limits of language.

Wittgensteain: there are no philosophical problems, just confusions about language

 

[redacted]

It seems like everyone has this premise that anyone who thinks they're INFJ first can't be INTP. I understand why people would think that and I see why it seems unlikely, but what if I'm just the rare case that's actually right?

I've been thinking about this for like 2 weeks and it still seems like the best fit. I've also talked it over with all my friends IRL who know MBTI, etc.

Edit:

Maybe a possible explanation is that I felt validated being an F that could hang in logic with Ts. Maybe I just confirmation biased myself into thinking I was an exception among INFJs. I really think it makes more sense that I'm just an INTP with 6+ years of therapy -- I've trained myself to direct my thinking in a more F direction than most INTPs go in their early 20s.

 

[Economica]

It seems like everyone has this premise that anyone who thinks they're INFJ first can't be INTP. I understand why people would think that and I see why it seems unlikely, but what if I'm just the rare case that's actually right?

That is admittedly a rule of thumb for me, but in this case I'm going by what I know of you.

 

[JocktheMotie]

Maybe a possible explanation is that I felt validated being an F that could hang in logic with Ts. Maybe I just confirmation biased myself into thinking I was an exception among INFJs. I really think it makes more sense that I'm just an INTP with 6+ years of therapy -- I've trained myself to direct my thinking in a more F direction than most INTPs go in their early 20s.

If you are consistently running your thoughts through a personal filter, and checking them against personal [F] criteria, then I would say that's an inclination towards more F use than T. But once again, I don't really know you that well.

INTPs do not have a monopoly on logic. Just because you love it and use it so much, doesn't really mean that's your type.

 

[Eiddy]

I would like to know what do INTP have the monopoly on?!. My daughter is INTP, I would love to have better interactions.

 

[JocktheMotie]

I would like to know what do INTP have the monopoly on?!. My daughter is INTP, I would love to have better interactions.

Personal topics may make young INTPs uncomfortable. They can view virtually all situations as separate from themselves, and due to some projection, can assume the same for others. They can become perplexed when something they say has a personal effect on someone else. They tend to over-think, and under-do.

No type really has a monopoly on anything, it's just there's far more likelihood of certain traits or quirks being expressed. How old is your daughter?

 

[Lauren Ashley]

I would like to know what do INTP have the monopoly on?!. My daughter is INTP, I would love to have better interactions.

Aloofness.

 

[Eiddy]

That I totally agree with, can't get her interested in anything (outside something she loves doing like reading books, writing, or baking).

 

[Eric B]

If you are consistently running your thoughts through a personal filter, and checking them against personal [F] criteria, then I would say that's an inclination towards more F use than T. But once again, I don't really know you that well.

What do you mean by "personal"? I know that word is often used for F, but the way you're describing it there would sound more like Fi. The real difference between F and T is whether the judgment being made is in terms of true/false (correct/incorrect), or good/bad.
On the other hand, if by personal you mean "subjective" while that word is also used for F a lot, in the Jungian sense, it simply means an introverted function. So with Ti, you are running things through a personal or subjective filter.

 

[JocktheMotie]

What do you mean by "personal"? I know that word is often used for F, but the way you're describing it there would sound more like Fi. The real difference between F and T is whether the judgment being made is in terms of true/false (correct/incorrect), or good/bad.
On the other hand, if by personal you mean "subjective" while that word is also used for F a lot, in the Jungian sense, it simply means an introverted function. So with Ti, you are running things through a personal or subjective filter.

I see the T vs. F divide as impersonal vs. personal. The Xi vs. Xe divide as subjective according to self vs. objective according to environment. I should have explained further that I was referencing Fe in terms of him "directing his thinking in more of an F direction" because he identifies being able to use Fe with greater proficiency than the majority of INTPs. If he finds himself projecting his thinking in an F direction, that sounds a lot to me as though he is comparing his thoughts against a personal [F] criteria with principles derived from the environment [Xe].

 

[Eric B]

OK. But still, since he trained himself that way, it doesn't seem like a natural preference, but rather conscious development.