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What do you think about this guy?

Wiley45

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Mar 3, 2009
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I have a particularly troublesome friend who seems to anger most of the people he knows. I am interested to see if you have any ideas about his type based on the information I can provide.

-He comes across as very self centered and arrogant. His sense of humor is always very sarcastic, and often rude.

-He loves to debate (thrives on debate) and will try to provoke arguments as often as possible. If you agree with him right away, he finds you boring and keeps trying to find a more contentious topic.

-He dislikes debating if he feels it is no challenge or thinks the other person's intelligence is too limited.

-He has very well-thought out ideas and can hold his own. He likes to think outside of convention and gets a thrill out of offending people and upsetting their strongly held beliefs.

-He looks at the need for companionship as a sign of weakness, and also laughs at the idea that a "random encounter" with a person could change someone's life.

-He lives to create chaos. He'd be the type to steal a guy's girlfriend or cheat with her and brag about it to the other guy's face.

-He is very interested in war and is in the army reserves. He likes an adrenaline rush, is learning to jump out of planes, and feels this type of thing is very significant, cool, important, etc.

-He always wonders aloud why people "are weak," why they "don't think," etc. and constantly believes he's right and other people are wrong. I honestly can't tell if this is a show or if he really means it, but it seems like he's sincere. He thinks calling something an "addiction" if it's not drugs or alcohol is just making excuses for what you wanted to do anyway.

-He is very black and white. He looks at all issues in a simple, cut and dried manner. He wants to argue with you until there is a clear "winner," though he cannot admit it if he's been "beaten." If you are ambivalent or want to explore a topic from both sides, he takes it as a sign of weakness and gets annoyed.

-His favorite characters are Dr. House (from the TV show) and the Joker (from The Dark Knight movie)


He loves to be around people, so I'm pretty sure he's both E and T. I'm just not sure about the rest. ENTJ, maybe? What do you think?
 

Shelovesyoumaybe

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Apr 23, 2009
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Haha, I know someone like this and every time I'm around him, my stomach just turns constantly. He's uptight in a challenging way, if that makes any sense.

Anyway, I'd definitely say ENTJ. But..do you think he might be I? Does he have a hard time confessing how he's feeling? Or will he tell you spot on?

I'm bad at this, haha.
 

Wiley45

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I don't think I've ever heard him talk specifically about feelings, but as far as I know, that's more of a T or F thing, not an I or E thing.

The reason I say extroverted is because he seems to thrive on his interactions with people and go out of his way to talk to people, even if it is just to stir up chaos.
 

Jeremy

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He sounds kind of immature to be honest. People who see the world in only black-and-white terms often fail to recognize that everything is a shade of gray.
 

Wiley45

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Oh, he's definitely immature. I'm just curious if it's still possible to figure out what type he is?
 

Wiley45

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Stuck in TeSe loop.

I'm new at this, and don't understand what TeSe means. Can you point me toward a link where I can read about this? I tried to google it, but only came up with Testicular Sperm Extraction. :D

*EDIT* Ah, never mind. I just found what I needed.
 

juggernaut

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J-E-R-K

Honestly, there was/is very little in that list that I can relate to. I think the only thing in there that I do see in myself is the arrogance and the unwillingness to bother debating with people who are ill-equipped. Picking fights just for the sake of it is not something I understand at all. NTJs will debate to get to the right answer, not because they think they already have it. When we actually believe we're right, there's no reason to shove it down someone's throat (unless they come asking for it of course). Also, seeing things as black and white seems to go against the entire NT approach and I've never known any xNTJ that actually enjoyed chaos. It's something that generally makes us really uncomfortable and irritable.
 

Wiley45

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J-E-R-K

Honestly, there was/is very little in that list that I can relate to at all. I think the only thing in there that I do see in myself is the arrogance and the unwillingness to bother debating with people who are ill-equipped. Picking fights just for the sake of it is not something I understand at all. NTJs will debate to get to the right answer, not because they think they already have it. When we actually believe we're right, there's no reason to shove it down someone's throat (unless they come asking for it of course). Also, seeing things as black and white seems to go against the entire NT approach and I've never known any xNTJ that actually enjoyed chaos. It's something that generally makes us really uncomfortable and irritable.

I know an ENTJ, and she is one of my favorite people to hang out with. If this guy is ENTJ, I'm sure he is immature and/or unhealthy.
 

SpaZZakaZZ

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If he seems to get his energy from imposing himself and his opinions on the world, I think his dominant function would have to be an extroverted judging function. He doesn't seem Fe :D so I would guess he has Te in his top spot. If that's true it would make him E_TJ. With his more unconventional, anarchist approach, probably ENTJ. And this is a bit random but this type would give him Fi in his 4th spot, which could explain his clumsy, twisted form of taking the moral high ground eg. his addictions idea. And Se in his 3rd spot, which used in combination with Ni could make him even better at forming logical arguments.
Orrrrr....he might be so argumentative as a way of getting mental stimulation. Does he actually believe the things he's arguing? Or does he just say whatever will offend the most people and enjoy thinking up reasons why it would be true? If he's just arguing anything, like a lawyer would, he might have Ne. With a good Ti to figure out a logical argument. Which would make him ENTP. But I think he would be more flexible in his arguments with this type.
He really sounds more like ENTJ. No offense to ENTJs out there. Whatever he is, he's a good example of his type turned bad :D
 

juggernaut

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I wonder how much of this might be type bias. I think a lot of us walk around with these MBTI stereotypes. When we encounter someone we don't understand/like/get along with we just slap on one of those handy-dandy labels we've decided fits the type (rather than the actual person) we don't like. I've seen this in myself. When I run into people I see as lazy, sloppy, whiny, and immature, my default biased judgment is "FP". The sad part is it's often my own perspective on the person rather than an accurate, objective assessment of him. I see these things I don't like, but I don't have a clue about the person's subjective psychological reality. I just slap on the label I reserve for the types I find the most objectionable. Fortunately, knowing this is the way people operate (myself included), I generally revisit the assessment later and try to evaluate whether this is just a case of personal dislike based on my own narrow view of the person.

It would be nice if (other) real ENTJs weighed in on this one. It seems that the judgments here may be a little less than objective. I think you'll find most NTJs are fairly willing to concede their faults (in fact there are a number of other threads where this has been done), but this character you've described doesn't sound anymore like an ENTJ asshole than an ENTP asshole, or an ESTJ, ESTP, or even INTJ on a bad day. I've even seen INFPs that behave in the ways you described right here on this board.
 

Stanton Moore

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I can't really analyze based on type, but it sounds like he has some very deep psychological troubles, centered around male stereotypes and anger. My opinion is that he was wounded in his sense of worth as a male, probably by his father or some other older male. This would account for the rage at humanity he seems to feel, also his criticism of weakness. Also, I think seeing only B&W is a product of fear - fear of being overwhelmed, so it's better to steel oneself against it by wearing inflexible (and therefore impenetrable) armor.
You probably already knew that...
 

Wiley45

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I can't really analyze based on type, but it sounds like he has some very deep psychological troubles, centered around male stereotypes and anger. My opinion is that he was wounded in his sense of worth as a male, probably by his father or some other older male. This would account for the rage at humanity he seems to feel, also his criticism of weakness. Also, I think seeing only B&W is a product of fear - fear of being overwhelmed, so it's better to steel oneself against it by wearing inflexible (and therefore impenetrable) armor.
You probably already knew that...

He definitely seems to have many views centered around male stereotypes. When I first met him, he had never washed a dish in his life and called it "women's work." He's improved a lot since then. :) I also suspect he was hurt pretty deeply by a girl within the last couple of years, and that might account for some of his "over the top" rudeness to everyone in general.

I wonder how much of this might be type bias. I think a lot of us walk around with these MBTI stereotypes. When we encounter someone we don't understand/like/get along with we just slap on one of those handy-dandy labels we've decided fits the type (rather than the actual person) we don't like.

Yeah, I can see how that would happen. I'm not interested in "writing him off." I'm just curious why he says and does things in his trademark way. Individuals are complicated, and he's not much like the other ENTJ girl I know and love to be around. However, if I can figure out his personality type, it might help me to relate to him better or partially understand where he's coming from.

As you mentioned, I would love to hear from other NTJ's. I don't know if the information I've provided is enough, but it would be interesting to hear more opinions.
 

Tiltyred

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Borderline personality disorder.
 

maliafee

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Have you ever considered sociopath (someone who doesn't feel empathy for others)? I hate to throw it around loosely, but something like 1-4% are sociopaths (and most sociopaths are not violent criminals). For someone to not mind cheating, etc., doesn't sound like he has much of a conscience. It sounds like NON-conscience ENT? to me.
 

heart

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Originally Posted by juggernaut
I wonder how much of this might be type bias. I think a lot of us walk around with these MBTI stereotypes. When we encounter someone we don't understand/like/get along with we just slap on one of those handy-dandy labels we've decided fits the type (rather than the actual person) we don't like.

From what I read in the thread, the people saying he is ENTJ, are not arguing that he is operating in a healthy ENTJ way, they're talking about an ENTJ stuck in a Te-Se loop:

Tertiary Temptation

Tertiary Se (ENxJ): "I'll physically intimidate him. I'll brandish a little power and he'll get back in line. Beneath all our refinement, people are just animals, and let me tell you, this animal will not be denied. I'll go with my gut instinct here. You can't know everything in advance, you have to trust your gut in each moment.

Good thing my gut is trustworthy. A person with lesser character wouldn't be able to trust his luck the way I can."

The Secondary Function (Ni) would say: "What is really dangerous here and what's just a paper tiger? What are some options you haven't considered yet only because the current way appears--falsely--to be necessarily so?"

jewelchild said:
-He is very black and white. He looks at all issues in a simple, cut and dried manner.

Expression of Se in the Tertiary i.e. "childlike" position?
 

matmos

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Sounds like a pretty normal ENTP to me.
 
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