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developing N

Costrin

rawr
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You're saying that it's impossible (or at least highly unlikely) for them to change to an N? Yeah, we know that. They know that. Everyone knows that. That's not what they're asking though. They're asking how to become more balanced, how to strengthen their intuitive functions, how to make some use of them, even if sensing will always overpower them.
 

Moiety

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No because I can see types in developing children (under 6 months). The problem is most people here associate types with MBTI which is too basic and only explains about 70% of personality theory.

Your pesonality type is HARDWARE. You are born with it. How you develop it according to your environment is your SOFTWARE. There, some computer speak for you.

You guys are trying to force people to study things but they THINK in a sensor way so they will DEVELOP that knowledge in a sensor way. That includes mathematics, philosophy, etc...

You have to go to an almost child like state to become in touch with inferior functions.

There is one other possibility and that is to consistently surround yourself with N types and avoid S's. Your brain will naturally adapt and grow its N portion to be able to understand things. However, you will always be a S.

I don't believe an adult S can become N, but N influences can help change a lot of things.

Well, I do believe in genetic predisposition, but I can't attribute it all to genes. Unless it's completely random I can't explain the fact that a person might surrounded by Ss and still turn out N. If you say "Your brain will naturally adapt and grow its N portion to be able to understand things" then you can see how this is eve more apparent a phenomenon when you are a child. I see too many relations between upbringing and type to consider genes that important.
 

Moiety

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This has nothing to do with Intuitive vs. Sensor. I don't know if everyone understands the difference between the two here...

You mean Abstract Mathematics? Maybe not so much but my point still stands. I do think there are thematics which are inherently more N or S. Philosophers aren't usually Ss, for a reason I'd say.

And how the hell do you force someone into a subconscious communication state that they are not naturally. Seriously.

Education is 100% about forcing kids minds into developing the traits needed to deal with the different ways of thinking. I'm using the same logic.
 

Maabus1999

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INTJ
You're saying that it's impossible (or at least highly unlikely) for them to change to an N? Yeah, we know that. They know that. Everyone knows that. That's not what they're asking though. They're asking how to become more balanced, how to strengthen their intuitive functions, how to make some use of them, even if sensing will always overpower them.

Day dream!!! That is a start. I mean, how much easier can it be? The whole idea is to let your subconscious mind control the world and not your senses. True I may be pushing more a Ni theory here then Ne, but day dreaming is a N trait.

Not sure how this is hard to get across. My three beers tonight must be effecting my comprehension.

Studying things is a conscious state and will not develop your N vs S states. You will just come to a state of understandment that makes sense to your mind (S way or N way). You have to go subconscious to develop it.

Hell, if you must, start writing down all your dreams after work out, then imagine every possible thing it could be. Take a break, then write down everything it could NOT be. That second stage is making your mind think outside the box. Then after that write a story, in your mind, with both what you think it means and what it isn't. That will get your subconscious neurons firing to try and bridge meaning.

Still, I just say day dream, day dream, day dream to start. Then move to drawing but don't PLAN on drawing anything. Just draw. Keep drawing. If you think of ANYTHING that you want to draw...stop! Wait awhile then keep drawing. Let your subconscious draw it. That is N.

After you learn to let your subconscious talk, THEN you can start to apply it to conscious ideas (like mathematics) and you may see intuitive connections. But like every other "skill" in the world, you have to start very basic and perfect up or you won't mature correctly.
 

Maabus1999

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Education is 100% about forcing kids minds into developing the traits needed to deal with the different ways of thinking. I'm using the same logic.

This is SOFTWARE typelogic, not hardware. You are exposing them to certain ideals of certain types that they will learn from and adapt to, in their own way.

The best example I can give you can google is Kiersey's profile of Barack Obama (he thinks he is INTJ). Now I won't promote is assertion of type, as I find it too simplistic and doesn't account for a lot of factors, but read his process of describing how types adapt to others through life experiences, in creating a "software". It is a description that is better then I can write here at the moment, and will get you to see where I'm coming from as a basis.

Genetics is unbelievable powerful, and while people don't like it, it does decide who you are when the sperm meets the egg.
 

Costrin

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This is SOFTWARE typelogic, not hardware. You are exposing them to certain ideals of certain types that they will learn from and adapt to, in their own way.

No one disputes this (I think). But this is precisely what we are trying to achieve. They want some N software, while retaining their S hardware.

Day dream!!! That is a start. I mean, how much easier can it be? The whole idea is to let your subconscious mind control the world and not your senses. True I may be pushing more a Ni theory here then Ne, but day dreaming is a N trait.

Possibly. Supposedly Ni is more subconscious. This may be the source of conflict. We have conflicting ideas of what intuition is.

Not sure how this is hard to get across. My three beers tonight must be effecting my comprehension.

;)

Studying things is a conscious state and will not develop your N vs S states. You will just come to a state of understandment that makes sense to your mind (S way or N way). You have to go subconscious to develop it.

Hell, if you must, start writing down all your dreams after work out, then imagine every possible thing it could be. Take a break, then write down everything it could NOT be. That second stage is making your mind think outside the box. Then after that write a story, in your mind, with both what you think it means and what it isn't. That will get your subconscious neurons firing to try and bridge meaning.

Still, I just say day dream, day dream, day dream to start. Then move to drawing but don't PLAN on drawing anything. Just draw. Keep drawing. If you think of ANYTHING that you want to draw...stop! Wait awhile then keep drawing. Let your subconscious draw it. That is N.

After you learn to let your subconscious talk, THEN you can start to apply it to conscious ideas (like mathematics) and you may see intuitive connections. But like every other "skill" in the world, you have to start very basic and perfect up or you won't mature correctly.

Oh hey, some useful advice. Agree on the drawing thing especially. I do that quite often.


Some other random mental exercises I've thought up (Train your N in 15 easy minutes a day!):

While listening to music that you aren't familiar with, try and guess the ending and starting of phrases, chord changes, lyrics, etc.

Play madlibs. :D

Play out an imagined scenario in your head. Such as, imagine what would happen if right now, a meteor crashes and lands right next to you (or anything ranging from mundane to insanely exotic). What would you do? What would other people do?
 

Maabus1999

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^^Music is also an excellent way if you close your eyes and just imagine what the music makes you see/feel. That also will develop your T and F sides at times, depending how your mind flows...

I will support this idea as it is subconscious.
 

Costrin

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^^Music is also an excellent way if you close your eyes and just imagine what the music makes you see/feel. That also will develop your T and F sides at times, depending how your mind flows...

I will support this idea as it is subconscious.

Possibly SJs would get more out of my advice, and SPs more out Maabus' advice.
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
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Imagination. Creativity. Abnormality. Uniqueness.
Easy for you to say.

Question for Chosen: was that a joke?

Because I laughed. LOL-ed, in fact.

I think I laughed because of N. A recognition of stated connection/disconnection.


I play with my N by writing outlandish stories. I have a rule: if I suddenly think of something--literally a word or a phrase or a thing or twist--, it must be incorporated into the story, no matter the cost to continuity. N says continuity will impose itself later. I literally don't write unless I suddenly think of something. The act of writing is then more or less just the presentation in somewhat orderly manner of the new surprise element.
 

Kasper

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Think things through in your mind than tell people one or two random things about your idea and sit back while they look at you like you have two heads and you’ll be on your way :)

Also, stop noticing things, even if they are right in front of you, just look straight through them as if they're not there.
 

Orangey

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Here's an example (and it is N because it is not logical). Your friend's mom recently bought a motorcycle, so it's on your mind. You start noticing all the people that drive motorcycles as a result, which leads you to believe that there is some connection between the appearance of your friend's mom's motorcycle and the increase in motorcyclers that you are witnessing. You then theorize that maybe it's the season that's inspiring people to buy motorcycles, or that there's a motorcycle sale nearby, or that maybe motorcycles are in fashion this year. You don't come to any conclusion, but that's not the point...the point is that you are enamored of the connection that you perceived between the mom's motorcycle and the increase in the number of people riding motorcycles, and you take pleasure in the the speculation that this generates.

The N is the trigger that gives your mind a hunch to follow. It's why you would notice more motorcycles in the first place, because you had a hunch that it was possible that the mom's motorcycle purchase signified a generalizable trend in casual motorcycle buying. Of course it's never that explicit in your head, but it is what gives you the motivation to notice and follow patterns. This can, of course, lead to magical thinking.
 

Cimarron

IRL is not real
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Imagination. Creativity. Abnormality. Uniqueness.
At least with these last two, I disagree. It's easy to be different and act different, to make different choices, but that change can still be very empty and hollow. Shoot, you can give your car a whole new paintjob, but it's still the same car.

Also, I think when I "just let loose," I have a temptation to act more impulsively...feels more like Se than any kind of N.
 

Snow Turtle

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Mm...
For me it'd be to entertain all possabilities rather than focusing on a specific one that I deem is appropriate or correct. SJs can engage in their Ne behaviour when they're all stressed out thinking of worst case scenarios, just a matter of of shifting that onto other aspects of life.

Granted... sometimes it feels abit inane to think about any random possabilities happening, got to resist that temptation to just want to find out what's actually happening (For example when reading a fictional storybook.) That'd be the Ne.

I might have the wrong idea of Ni, but this comes much more easier to me than Ne does since it serves a purpose somewhat. Suddenly I'm a little uncertain about what Ni is exactly, it reminds me of Si but without the middle section. In which case it'd be near impossible for us to engage in since we deal with Si naturally.

Possability: Attaching meaning to everything and guessing what that'd lead to? Of course that sounds way too much like Si. Predicting without seemingly incomplete data?
 

Take Five

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Thanks. Developing imagination seems to be a theme here, so I'll work on that first. This may be easier than I thought it would be as I already do those sort of imagination exercise fairly often.
 

calamedes

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Might I suggest free-writing? It's not only a good way to develop your imagination, but you'd be surprised what ideas you can get. Those, in turn, develop a complicated web of thought that illustrates your progress :)
 

Jeffster

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This has nothing to do with Intuitive vs. Sensor. I don't know if everyone understands the difference between the two here...

I don't think YOU understand the difference between the two if you think creativity and imagination is an "N" thing.
 
G

Glycerine

Guest
Here's an example (and it is N because it is not logical). Your friend's mom recently bought a motorcycle, so it's on your mind. You start noticing all the people that drive motorcycles as a result, which leads you to believe that there is some connection between the appearance of your friend's mom's motorcycle and the increase in motorcyclers that you are witnessing. You then theorize that maybe it's the season that's inspiring people to buy motorcycles, or that there's a motorcycle sale nearby, or that maybe motorcycles are in fashion this year. You don't come to any conclusion, but that's not the point...the point is that you are enamored of the connection that you perceived between the mom's motorcycle and the increase in the number of people riding motorcycles, and you take pleasure in the the speculation that this generates.

The N is the trigger that gives your mind a hunch to follow. It's why you would notice more motorcycles in the first place, because you had a hunch that it was possible that the mom's motorcycle purchase signified a generalizable trend in casual motorcycle buying. Of course it's never that explicit in your head, but it is what gives you the motivation to notice and follow patterns. This can, of course, lead to magical thinking.

What she said. Also, one thing you can try is to make a connection between two seemingly random things. For example, the color black and malaria. One take could be that they both have a connection w/ death. One of my teachers even compared pizza with romantic love. So it can be as out there as you want.
 

entropie

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Start by noticing recurring phrases, write them down and start to make fun out of them. The next time you make a recurring phrase and you are aware of it in the beginning try to say something different, to describe the same thing.

And after that grow further
 

Giggly

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Wow. Good answers.
 

Maabus1999

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At least with these last two, I disagree. It's easy to be different and act different, to make different choices, but that change can still be very empty and hollow. Shoot, you can give your car a whole new paintjob, but it's still the same car.

Also, I think when I "just let loose," I have a temptation to act more impulsively...feels more like Se than any kind of N.

I'm talking about your mind and thinking processes, not physical realities. The whole "thinking outside the box" fits those two words.

However, this is an excellent example of the difference between S and N just on what you perceived I was saying in your mind, when in fact what I am trying to get across is very different.
 
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