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  1. #1
    Junior Member permanent_temp's Avatar
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    Default Am I an unhealthy 9, or something else?

    Hi.
    So, I know with almost 100% certainty that I'm the Seeker archetype (469.) I also know I'm an sx-dom. I'm trying to figure out once and for all if I'm a 9 or 4. I'll answer any questions asked. But first I'd like to say why I'm hinting at 9 at the moment.

    I was reading an article on what each Enneagram type typically hates most and I was surprised to find that according to it, 9s hate being controlled the most. Due to Covid, I moved from my home state and left my full time job to be with family. But I've instantly been regretting the decision and hating it to the point of considering moving into a cheap hotel, because I have a very controlling mother. I don't like to live alone if I don't have to, but when I feel like a person has no respect for me and is making up rules for the sake of establishing control over me, I become very volatile and can act rashly in an attempt to get away from them/go back to living freely.

    I don't think I'm a 6 because I don't really fear being without guidance or support; I just don't like to be in charge of other people, so I feel safest when I don't have to/when there's someone to do it for me. And I'm questioning if I'm a 4 because I also don't fear not being different, so much as I fear that being "plain" suggests blind compliance to rules that may make no sense. But I relate to the love of feeling melancholy, being withdrawn from the outside world, and being easily hurt when someone expresses harsh criticism towards me.

    Really the main reasons I've doubted I was a 9 is because (1) When I'm angry, I have a hard time not showing it. It's not that I ever WANT to get angry or that I don't fear the results of being angry. I would love to never get upset with anyone. I feel like the reason I do, again just has to do with the fear of being taken advantage of. I can't tell if this is in itself Reactiveness, or fear of becoming angry gone totally wrong. And (2) When I'm stressed, it shows on my sleeve. I am regularly nervous and doubtful of myself.

    I feel I may strongly relate to the core 9 fear of separation. I spend most of my time isolated but if I'm out in public with people, I'm extremely fixated on trying to blend in and not create any problems. Again, it's only if I sense aggression towards me when I feel I've tried my hardest to be kind, that I start to become uncomfortable and testy.

    If anyone does decide to read this and try to respond, it will be more than appreciated. I know I said a lot, merely because it's been such a struggle being confused in this way and I wanted to give as much to go off of as I could. Thank you.
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  2. #2
    Now with less salt. Methylene's Avatar
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    6 sx is the countertype, doesn't look like a six.
    4 sx is really rare and is the archetype of a toxic and sadist person. You'd know if you were one.
    9 sx desires to merge with people.
    Look for individual descriptions of the sx variant of the types and see which one applies better.
    I don't think that it's so personal
    Anymore
    I don't think that it's irreversible
    Anymore
    Sometimes I feel like I'm a sentimental trooper.

    6w5 - 3w4 - 9w8 so/sp
    RLUEI
    Chaotic neutral.
    LII-Ne.
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  3. #3
    ιяяєѕιѕтιвlє Ꮆяαѕρ Luminous's Avatar
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    Hi there! I thought I was a 4 for awhile due to all the bad 4 descriptions and tests that are out there. But I'm a 9sx. Sx/sp as a stacking can resemble 4. Feel free to ask me any questions, if you'd like.
    I relate to the love of feeling melancholy, being withdrawn from the outside world, and being easily hurt when someone expresses harsh criticism towards me.
    Indeed, that does not make you a 4; you could very well be a 9. Some of the big differences between 4 and 9: 4s are self referencing whereas 9s are other referencing. 4s seek to create an image of brokenness which is what makes them special and they watch others watch themselves whereas 9s are much more what you see is what you get in a lack of image way. They both spend a lot of time in their heads daydreaming, but the 4 can spend that time imagining horrible things happening while the 9 escapes into idealistic fantasies. And yes, 9s can be very very very stubborn.

    Here's a good description from the Enneagrammer:
    9 vs 4: Both withdrawn, both have capacity to be emotional, 4's like to be separate, 9's innately feel like there's no identity boundary between them and others, 4's are constantly cultivating who they are and presenting it to others, 9's feel like who they are can shift to different landscapes that are all "them" depending on who they're with, 4's are reactive and present their darkness, 9's feel some need to be a positive face for others and suffer on the inside, 4's are out of touch with their bodies and 9's are stuck in their bodies, 4's are more prone to hate, 9's are more prone to anger; 9's can get flooded with emotion whereas 4's will actively amplify emotions in a way that is actually less "real" than the honest reaction

    What makes you say you're definitely a seeker/469 type and a sx dom?

    Would you mind filling this out? New Questionnaire To Fill Out! And possibly doing a collage of images that appeal to you?
    нєισтяσριc
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  4. #4
    Junior Member permanent_temp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luminous View Post
    Hi there! I thought I was a 4 for awhile due to all the bad 4 descriptions and tests that are out there. But I'm a 9sx. Sx/sp as a stacking can resemble 4. Feel free to ask me any questions, if you'd like.
    Indeed, that does not make you a 4; you could very well be a 9. Some of the big differences between 4 and 9: 4s are self referencing whereas 9s are other referencing. 4s seek to create an image of brokenness which is what makes them special and they watch others watch themselves whereas 9s are much more what you see is what you get in a lack of image way. They both spend a lot of time in their heads daydreaming, but the 4 can spend that time imagining horrible things happening while the 9 escapes into idealistic fantasies. And yes, 9s can be very very very stubborn.

    Here's a good description from the Enneagrammer:



    What makes you say you're definitely a seeker/469 type and a sx dom?

    Would you mind filling this out? New Questionnaire To Fill Out! And possibly doing a collage of images that appeal to you?
    Thanks for the response. Yeah, I'll try to fill out that questionnaire after this, along with the collage.

    I filled out a survey some years ago and was pegged as 469, and those are the three types I consistently get when taking tests. As for sx, it's mostly due to how unmotivated I feel unless I have something I'm passionate about to focus on. Based on the descriptors you gave, I'm still a little confused to be honest although I do think I sound slightly more like 4 than 9 with all of that in mind.

    ---------------------------

    1) Context:

    a) What is your age range and general location (Country so that cultural values can be taken into account)? Do you have any impairments that may affect the way that you answer this questionnaire? Any religious or political beliefs (or anything else along those lines) that also might have an effect?

    I'm 28 and in the USA. I struggle with depression, though I'm not sure if it's clinical. No strong religious or political beliefs.

    b) Which types are you currently considering? Why are you considering them and why haven’t you decided on one?

    4, 9, and possibly 6. Mostly just as a result of repeatedly getting those on tests and having been typed as such by others before. I haven't decided on one probably just because I'm overthinking things, honestly.

    2) What do you deem as your purpose in life?

    Possibly because of my depression, my aim in life is generally pretty low. If I can help people I'm close to through emotional/psychological struggles and be as kind to others as I know how to be, that's a pretty huge deal to me. All I've ever really aspired to do is be supportive and motivate people as I wanted others to do for me growing up.

    3) Of the seven deadly sins, which one(s) do you relate to the most and the least and why?

    I relate most to wrath, I guess. I hold others to a high standard of respect and so when I don't feel like I'm being given that, I get really upset. Others would probably say I'm moreso sloth but my inactivity doesn't bother me nearly as much as my anger.

    I think I relate least to pride. It seems like there's a correlation between pride and egotism, and I feel like I deal much more with the opposite of egotism.

    4) Analyzing your relationships with others, briefly describe:

    a) The type of people you are drawn to

    Typically outgoing people with a lot of charisma and/or a friendly disposition. They make me the least nervous to be around because they tend to be pretty easy to read and get along with, at least in a casual setting.

    b) The type of people who are drawn to you

    I think people who struggle with anxiety even worse than I do, or ones who tend to feel alienated for some other reason.

    c) The type of people you are repulsed by

    I have a big problem with people who seem to feel entitled, or who try to exert control over others where they don't have any.

    5)What are the traits in others that you admire but you cannot emulate yourself? Elaborate.

    I admire people who go into situations upbeat and who seem to draw others to them simply by having that attitude. They get along with people effortlessly and good things seem to happen for them. I have to try really hard to be friendly for fear that my timidness will give others anxiety around me and be misread.

    6) Describe your relationship with the following:

    a) Anger -- An instant reaction I feel when I feel cornered or under attack in some way. Definitely moreso a defense mechanism than anything else.

    b) Shame -- I don't know if I feel this much. I'm pretty understanding of why I'm the way I am, so there's not much need for me to beat myself up over it. If I'm feeling sluggish, rather than feeling shame for being sluggish, I try to pinpoint where it's coming from.

    c) Fear -- I think this directly correlates with anger for me.

    d) Love/passion -- It's a push-pull thing. I can like something or someone and feel close to them but when I become anxious about how I am, I pull away too much because I strongly fear being a burden.

    e) Conflict -- This effects me really badly. Even though I'm understanding of why I'm so emotional, I still feel horrible when it causes problems for other people. It's different when it's only me who's bothered by myself.

    7) What are some of the themes that have played a prominent role in your life (ie. A struggle you’ve been unable to conquer, ect)?

    The biggest thing has been my feeling of detachment and not knowing how to stop feeling that way. I want to be able to go along to get along but I never know how, or I overthink it due to anxiety and mess it up.

    8) Answer only one of the following:

    a) [College aged and above] What is your area of work/study? Why did you choose this and would you change it? If so, what would be your ideal?

    Well I was working in a warehouse before I moved to Georgia, just because I needed a big break from customer service which I'd been doing for 4 years by that point. I loved it because I was on my own moving product 8-10 hrs a day on foot which kept me very physically active and allowed me peace of mind to think all day. I think it was really good for me.

    b)[Under college aged] What do you plan on studying/working as in the future? How did you go about deciding this? If this is not your ideal area of pursuit, what would be?

    9) When meeting a new person, what do you tend to focus on?

    Getting a feel for the energy they're exuding and trying to match it, in hopes it puts them at ease.

    10) How do you feel about humanity as a whole? What do you feel are some of the biggest problems the human race faces and why?

    I tend to think positively of humanity and our potential to succeed. But I think we need to learn how to focus on more important things as a whole instead of getting caught up in things that lead to self-destruction. I'd say more but I don't wanna offend anyone with my views on social issues because they tend to be very controversial.

    11) What are some of your hobbies and interests?

    Singing, walking, writing, communicating (mostly online where I tend to be a bit better at it,) going to shows, fashion/design, etc.

    13) How do you usually “hang out” with your friend(s)? When answering, think about what activities you tend to choose, whether you hang out with one person at once or many, whether or not you initiate the interaction.

    We usually just end up doing simple things like going on drives, going on walks, watching anime together, etc.

    14) What is more important, actions or words? Why?

    I think words. I can interpret actions many different ways but a lot of people can do the same things with different reasons in mind.

    15) Oh dear, you’ve been cursed by a witch! It’s ok though, you get a choice on which curse you will receive. Will you choose….

    a) To never be able to experience the sensation of taste
    b) To be immortal
    c) To lose your memories
    d) To be poor for the rest of your life -- I don't think I'd mind this. I'm a minimalist by practice and I would try to use it to help keep me humble.
    e) Or to never experience passion

    Elaborate on why!

    16) What do you hope to avoid being? If it helps, describe a person who embodies what you avoid/you as a villain, ect.

    I try to be avoid not thinking objectively when dealing with other people/being unfair. I want to be a source of comfort and I don't want to act in a way that puts anyone on edge.

    17) How do you relate to obsession? Do you tend to "merge" with others or your interests? How do you feel about the idea of doing this?

    It makes me nervous because I feel like as comfortable as you might get with people, the only constant in your life is you. But I have to fight the urge to merge, no rhyme intended.

    18) Organized or messy? Plans and blueprints or impulse and surprises? What are you preferences and tendencies?

    I'm definitely more impulsive. I feel life is unpredictable and I'd rather learn how to go with the flow than plan around it.

    19) How do you subjectively view comfort and how do you create comfort in your life and surroundings?

    Comfort, to me, would mean knowing where I stand with someone for the most part and having not much need to question it. Knowing I'm accepted by someone or a business I'm working for as a whole.

    ----------------------

    Collage:

    54197815_404731776770537_7650518677636251648_o.jpg

    55500784_406579806585734_3901236000319340544_o.jpg

    82945184_685975638646148_5907686341863525365_o.jpg

    0bbad1a6da6289df63692fe3220e97d8.jpg

  5. #5
    ιяяєѕιѕтιвlє Ꮆяαѕρ Luminous's Avatar
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    Awww, is that your dog in the first image? Very sweet.

    I think you're a 9.

    I relate most to wrath, I guess. I hold others to a high standard of respect and so when I don't feel like I'm being given that, I get really upset. Others would probably say I'm moreso sloth but my inactivity doesn't bother me nearly as much as my anger.

    I think I relate least to pride. It seems like there's a correlation between pride and egotism, and I feel like I deal much more with the opposite of egotism.
    That's very 9, and not 4. 4s can be elitists - it's one way they can individuate themselves.

    b) The type of people who are drawn to you

    I think people who struggle with anxiety even worse than I do, or ones who tend to feel alienated for some other reason.
    Making others feel seen or comfortable, holding space for others - very 9ish.

    e) Conflict -- This effects me really badly. Even though I'm understanding of why I'm so emotional, I still feel horrible when it causes problems for other people. It's different when it's only me who's bothered by myself.
    Very 9.

    The biggest thing has been my feeling of detachment and not knowing how to stop feeling that way. I want to be able to go along to get along but I never know how, or I overthink it due to anxiety and mess it up.
    Russ Hudson recently posted this on Twitter:
    Some teachers characterize Nines as "lazy" yet most of the Nines I know are hard working & accomplished people. Some of this comes from misunderstanding the passion of Nine--sloth
    The issue here is more about resistance to being affected by life, as well as a tendency to "shut down" when confronted with conflicts or sometimes when pursuing self interest. #Enneagram Nines are natural introverts & tend to protect themselves by withdrawing.
    For this reason #Nines often mistake themselves for Fours & Fives. Partly this is because Nines really do share many qualities with those types--they have deep feelings, can be very creative, and can be profound thinkers. But it also has to do with inadequate descriptions.
    Ichazo called the fixation indolence, but these seems very close to the passion of sloth. I use the word 'ruminating" by which I mean "chewing on my thoughts." In short, it is talking to myself in my head--a way to keep myself company. Everyone does this, of course
    But #Enneagram Nines are especially prone to losing themselves in their stream of inner thoughts, dialogues, and emotions--being swept along by them. Identifying with this inner content substitutes for feeling our being, our presence in a more direct way.
    When #Nines find the right balance between their embodied presence & their rich inner life, their love of harmony & inner peace becomes a powerful capacity to bring outer harmony & peace to the world through their creativity, their vision, & their fine example. I AM HERE.

    Does the above resonate?

    Getting a feel for the energy they're exuding and trying to match it, in hopes it puts them at ease.
    Sounds 9sx.

    Hopefully someone else might give their opinion since I might be biased by looking through the lens of my own typing, but I think you're a 9.

    Also welcome to the forum!
    нєισтяσριc

  6. #6
    Junior Member permanent_temp's Avatar
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    You're very kind, thank you for the time you took just to help and the compliment. I don't know why I'm so indecisive about settling on 9, I would really like to be able to claim I am one because when it comes to the Enneagram, I look up to healthy 9s the most. XD Maybe that's part of why I was so hesitant, it seemed too good to be true lol. But you're one of a handful who have guessed that for me before, it clearly must mean something.


    As far as that excerpt is concerned, I feel like I have to put my experience in my words to see if it matches; there is a list of things I would love to have accomplished, but I think the main reason I don't is because I do fear becoming overwhelmed by everything I'd have to deal with to get from point A to B. For example, in a dream world I would build a cabin in the woods in Oregon and run a small business out of it that I can survive on. But when I think about the number of people I would have to talk to to purchase land, how much time I'd have to dedicate to learning how to build one, and all the other stuff, it feels completely out of my reach and not even worth the time. So instead I become comfortable with what I already have.


    I've always attributed that to lack of vision, and laziness. I'm this way with so many things though =_= and the only time I end up accomplishing anything big is if I fall into something and end up excelling at it. I'm a hard worker only when I kind of trip into something I end up liking, in other words.

  7. #7
    ιяяєѕιѕтιвlє Ꮆяαѕρ Luminous's Avatar
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    You seem like a very kind person yourself.

    I think what you describe could certainly be 9ish. At any rate, I can relate in feeling easily overwhelmed and like something is too big to take on. I don't think it means you have a lack of vision or that you're lazy at all, but that you're sensitive and focusing on all that has to be done at once. I've given up on things or put things I wanted on hold because, after trying this or that which didn't work, I got overwhelmed. It's funny you mention going from point A to B, as something my therapist has been helping me with is reframing that... instead of B, you'd be going from A to Z but you'd be going in small steps, a little at a time, A to B, then B to C, just a little chunk at a time in the direction you want to go, taking time along the way to celebrate your successes and your perseverance. So you could make another list of the small steps that would be needed to reach a goal, maybe starting with a small goal. And slowly work toward them.

    Do you do any relaxation techniques when you feel overwhelmed and anxious? 2-1 breathing has really helped me (where your out breath is twice as long as your in breath). Don't beat yourself up because your talents are different from many other people's. Making others feel seen, heard, and supported is incredibly valuable. You just need to pick up some tools (like relaxation/anxiety-reducing exercises, self confidence, and breaking things into manageable chunks) to help you get where you'd like to be. (Not to give the impression I've mastered this - I'm still very much working on it myself.)
    нєισтяσριc
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  8. #8
    Junior Member permanent_temp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luminous View Post
    You seem like a very kind person yourself.

    I think what you describe could certainly be 9ish. At any rate, I can relate in feeling easily overwhelmed and like something is too big to take on. I don't think it means you have a lack of vision or that you're lazy at all, but that you're sensitive and focusing on all that has to be done at once. I've given up on things or put things I wanted on hold because, after trying this or that which didn't work, I got overwhelmed. It's funny you mention going from point A to B, as something my therapist has been helping me with is reframing that... instead of B, you'd be going from A to Z but you'd be going in small steps, a little at a time, A to B, then B to C, just a little chunk at a time in the direction you want to go, taking time along the way to celebrate your successes and your perseverance. So you could make another list of the small steps that would be needed to reach a goal, maybe starting with a small goal. And slowly work toward them.

    Do you do any relaxation techniques when you feel overwhelmed and anxious? 2-1 breathing has really helped me (where your out breath is twice as long as your in breath). Don't beat yourself up because your talents are different from many other people's. Making others feel seen, heard, and supported is incredibly valuable. You just need to pick up some tools (like relaxation/anxiety-reducing exercises, self confidence, and breaking things into manageable chunks) to help you get where you'd like to be. (Not to give the impression I've mastered this - I'm still very much working on it myself.)
    Thank you kindly. That advice is very helpful, I kind of like the idea of making several little steps and then being able to look and back see how far you came without even realizing It's a bit like trying to save 500 bucks and saving 5 dollars a week until you've got it all, I'm guessing? I want to thank you again but I don't want to be excessive with it xDDD

    Nah the only thing I'd done to try to combat anxiety was to repeat mantras to myself and I've found it doesn't really work so well, for me. I've heard about using that breathing exercise or something like that for falling asleep though, so it makes sense that it would work for anxiety, too. Actually I just left from a random church meeting my boyfriend and I stumbled upon while we were out walking, and they said essentially exactly what you did. Just thought you should know how sorta cool that is lol.
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  9. #9
    ιяяєѕιѕтιвlє Ꮆяαѕρ Luminous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by permanent_temp View Post
    Thank you kindly. That advice is very helpful, I kind of like the idea of making several little steps and then being able to look and back see how far you came without even realizing It's a bit like trying to save 500 bucks and saving 5 dollars a week until you've got it all, I'm guessing? I want to thank you again but I don't want to be excessive with it xDDD

    Nah the only thing I'd done to try to combat anxiety was to repeat mantras to myself and I've found it doesn't really work so well, for me. I've heard about using that breathing exercise or something like that for falling asleep though, so it makes sense that it would work for anxiety, too. Actually I just left from a random church meeting my boyfriend and I stumbled upon while we were out walking, and they said essentially exactly what you did. Just thought you should know how sorta cool that is lol.
    That's lovely.
    нєισтяσριc
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