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Forms of the Inferior Function: Fe vs Si.

lunalum

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Dec 20, 2008
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sp/so
So, vague recap of my type me thread from like 7 years ago (that seems to have disappeared into the void): Basically I was undecided between INTP and ENTP. There wasn't any real consensus. People also considered INFP and ENFP for me and I took those into consideration. I think someone suggested ISTP and INTJ for me at some point too... I maybe considered those for a moment lol. Another thing that happened is that I and others in the thread got the sense that the discussion/search wasn't going anywhere because I know enough about the types/functions to easily be dishonest and manipulate what I say to get a desired type outcome (not necessarily consciously).

So with that I remember what I did to ultimately decide on my type: I looked at forms of the inferior. I looked both at Psychological Types and the easier to read adaptations of Jung's work. I figured that would be hard for me to manipulate and be the most honest approach at that point. Reading the Si inferior description was the closest one. Fe inferior was the second closest description, so I went with ENTP. For a few years anyway.

I came back around to INTP fairly recently. I found this approach flawed, and perhaps just making up excuses for myself. Excusing my introversion and other more INTP-like tendencies as inferior Si. I come off as an introvert, and with a thing like this where appearances do matter, that must be what I am.

I found myself back pouring through the interpretive descriptions of the inferior functions today, and the result was mostly the same as when I did it last time. I did it more orderly this time. I went through every single one and highlighted things up. Si and Fe were tied and the highest, and partial agreement for Se. Nothing significant for the other functions. So then I did an even more careful read on just inferior Si and Fe. So this is what I highlighted up from the main parts of just these two:

Si-inferior Types
• Withdrawal and depression
• Obsessiveness
• Focus on the body


Many young male and female ENTPs and ENFPs report becoming uncharacteristically quiet and reserved when they are out of character and find this in marked contrast to their usual openness and sociability. Like other young Extraverted types, they do not seem to find anything positive in moving to this Introverted approach, but are rather puzzled and surprised by it. “I become very quiet and reserved,” said an ENTP young man, “and I don’t talk to people like I normally do.” An ENFP young woman said, “Sometimes I withdraw from everyone, sit alone for hours, and just think. Let stuff stew in my head alone.” Older Extraverted Intuitive types also do not report much pleasure in being withdrawn, quiet, and reserved, and in losing their natural Extraverted Intuitive qualities. Said an ENFP, “I become very quiet, unsure about my thoughts and expressing them. I think a whole lot.”

As the connection with dominant Intuition diminishes, so do Extraverted Intuitive types’ characteristic enthusiasm, optimism, and energetic approach to life. When their hold on their dominant and auxiliary functions continues to taper off, the qualities of inferior Introverted Sensing manifest in withdrawal and depression, obsessiveness, and a focus on the body. For ENTPs, tertiary Feeling emerges as strong, uncontrollable, and emotional criticism that accompanies the obsessive “facts” that overwhelm them. The tertiary Thinking of ENFPs contributes to their obsessive “facts” the sarcastic, legalistic “logic” that proves others’ failings.


Fe-inferior Types
• Logic emphasized to an extreme
• Hypersensitivity to relationships
• Emotionalism


Like Introverted Feeling types, Introverted Thinking types often report becoming uncharacteristically sociable, outgoing, and expressive of feelings as part of their inferior function experience. This is reported by both males and females of these types and by individuals of all ages. However, the loss of social inhibition is likely to emerge eventually in easily expressed anger, being loud and perhaps inappropriate and obnoxious.

Introverted Thinking types seem to report less pleasure in losing their inhibitions than do Introverted Feeling types, perhaps because they are uncomfortable extraverting their normally introverted critical Thinking. It may be that their naturally unspoken critical stance emerges more quickly than it does for ISFPs and INFPs. As the Introverted Thinking type's conscious control of differentiated Thinking starts to diminish, use of that dominant function along with auxiliary Sensing or Intuition becomes increasingly difficult. The internal struggle for control may be largely unobserved by others. But as time goes on, others may notice a certain slowness, vagueness, and distractibility replacing the sharp acuity that they are used to seeing in the ISTP or INTP.

Introverted Thinking types report becoming illogical, inefficient, unfocused, and scattered. An INTP described becoming “emotional, edgy, disorganized, obsessive about details, confused, closed. Usually I am easygoing, centered, and creative and see lots of options.” An ISTP reported becoming “confused, disorganized, and unable to focus. I lose track of my organizational strategies and get messy.” A young ISTP described himself as “slow and dimwitted, forgetting stuff all the time.” And a youthful INTP said, “I lack the mental energy and clarity that I ordinarily maintain. I'm not able to concentrate at all. I become completely illogical.” As inferior Extraverted Feeling becomes more prominent in the demeanor of the Introverted Thinking type, it comes out in the form of logic being emphasized to an extreme, hypersensitivity to relationships, and emotionalism. For ISTPs, tertiary Intuition may aid and abet these forms, appearing as a conviction of some imagined “pattern” of others' uncaring neglect of the ISTPs needs and feelings. For INTPs, tertiary Sensing takes the form of an obsessive review of the facts and details that prove that others neglect the INTPs needs and feelings.


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Here's where things are tricky. I relate to both painfully so, and somewhat more for Si. But except for the part that being quiet and reserved is in some sort of contrast. While I do become painfully even more withdrawn in a funk, my default is still quiet and not really sociable per se. I have always been on the quiet side. Some of the stuff for Fe rings more true for how things would manifest in my teens/early 20s but not as much now.

I have had chronic anxiety and recurrent depression for over a decade now, so it would make sense that I am in the grip of these and that this distorts my type. But is this really the fairest way to get to the bottom of this? The excerpts are from Naomi Quenk's book "Was That Really Me?" What are your thoughts on these sections and on using the source this way? And as far as overall type goes, is it really just a coin toss at this point? Honestly just trying to make peace with that at this point :laugh:
 

lunalum

Super Senior Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2008
Messages
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MBTI Type
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sp/so
Here is the full thing for each of the two, and a link to the others: MBTI: Form of the Inferior Functions

(when I find where it is on this site I'll replace the link)

Inferior Fe

Like Introverted Feeling types, Introverted Thinking types often report becoming uncharacteristically sociable, outgoing, and expressive of feelings as part of their inferior function experience. This is reported by both males and females of these types and by individuals of all ages. However, the loss of social inhibition is likely to emerge eventually in easily expressed anger, being loud and perhaps inappropriate and obnoxious.

Introverted Thinking types seem to report less pleasure in losing their inhibitions than do Introverted Feeling types, perhaps because they are uncomfortable extraverting their normally introverted critical Thinking. It may be that their naturally unspoken critical stance emerges more quickly than it does for ISFPs and INFPs. As the Introverted Thinking type's conscious control of differentiated Thinking starts to diminish, use of that dominant function along with auxiliary Sensing or Intuition becomes increasingly difficult. The internal struggle for control may be largely unobserved by others. But as time goes on, others may notice a certain slowness, vagueness, and distractibility replacing the sharp acuity that they are used to seeing in the ISTP or INTP.

Introverted Thinking types report becoming illogical, inefficient, unfocused, and scattered. An INTP described becoming “emotional, edgy, disorganized, obsessive about details, confused, closed. Usually I am easygoing, centered, and creative and see lots of options.” An ISTP reported becoming “confused, disorganized, and unable to focus. I lose track of my organizational strategies and get messy.” A young ISTP described himself as “slow and dimwitted, forgetting stuff all the time.” And a youthful INTP said, “I lack the mental energy and clarity that I ordinarily maintain. I'm not able to concentrate at all. I become completely illogical.” As inferior Extraverted Feeling becomes more prominent in the demeanor of the Introverted Thinking type, it comes out in the form of logic being emphasized to an extreme, hypersensitivity to relationships, and emotionalism. For ISTPs, tertiary Intuition may aid and abet these forms, appearing as a conviction of some imagined “pattern” of others' uncaring neglect of the ISTPs needs and feelings. For INTPs, tertiary Sensing takes the form of an obsessive review of the facts and details that prove that others neglect the INTPs needs and feelings.

The comparison between dominant and inferior Extraverted Feeling is shown in Table 6. Jung (1976a) touched on a combination of these characteristics as they can be seen in their inferior form:

Because of the highly impersonal character of the conscious attitude, the unconscious feelings are extremely personal and oversensitive, giving rise to secret prejudices—a readiness, for instance, to misconstrue any opposition to his formula as personal ill-will, or a constant tendency to make negative assumptions about other people in order to invalidate their arguments in advance—in defense, naturally, of his own touchiness. (p. 350)

Logic Emphasized to an Extreme

Effective dominant Extraverted Feeling types are quite comfortable making decisions that are not logical. Introverted Thinking types in the grip of inferior Extraverted Feeling may become passionately insistent on the application of logic, becoming quite emotional about their approach. As an extension of their loss of control over the Thinking function, the Introverted Thinking type begins to engage in excessively logical, unproductive thinking. There may be an obsessive quality to this thinking. One ISTP feels compelled to “prove” the accuracy of his perception of things. An INTP said, “If a problem comes up that I'm unable to resolve, I work at it anyway and can't let go of it, even if I know I can't solve it.” Other Introverted Thinking types report becoming less articulate, speaking rapidly and disjointedly, and using sharp, clear, but “paranoid” logic.

Fe-dominant Types
• Comfortable inattention to logic
• Sensitivity to others' welfare
• Sharing of emotions

Fe-inferior Types
• Logic emphasized to an extreme
• Hypersensitivity to relationships
• Emotionalism

They may find that they forget things, misplace objects, and engage in futile projects that don't accomplish anything and are marked by disorganization. One INTP described becoming rigidly stuck on a false belief that at the time seemed totally supported by logic. Later, he was able to reassess his conviction as an inferior “Feeling judgment masquerading as logic.” “I am very impatient, demanding, and extremely logical,” said another INTP. “I am obsessively analytical,” said another.

Hypersensitivity to Relationships

Effective dominant Extraverted Feeling types value their relationships with others. They carefully consider the well-being of others in making decisions and devote energy and enthusiasm to personal and social interactions. In the grip of inferior Extraverted Feeling, the Introverted Thinking type experiences increasing hypersensitivity to “Feeling” areas. And just as Extraverted Thinking types struggle to maintain controlled efficiency and competency when in the initial grip of the inferior function, so ISTPs and INTPs valiantly try to hide their formerly alien concerns with being liked and appreciated. In this unfamiliar state, they over-interpret or misinterpret others' innocent comments or body language. “I nail someone and babble forever about my feelings and all the terrible things 'they' are doing to me,” said an ISTP. However, to the Introverted Thinking type, the perceived slights are accurate and authentic. Something as innocuous as someone failing to say hello upon entering a room, or briefly interrupting a conversation to greet a passerby, may be interpreted as an indicator of dislike and disapproval.

ISTPs and INTPs tend to feel discounted when others do not listen to them attentively. “I tend to be emotionally hypersensitive when I'm 'not myself.' It's extraordinarily different from my usual state of logical ‘emotional detachment,” said an INTP. Others are usually slow to catch on to the altered state of the Introverted Thinking type, as was noted earlier for Extraverted Thinking types. Distress, anxiety, and annoyance are typically expressed with minimal cues—a raised eyebrow, a distant look, or other subtle body language may be the only signal. Further, family, friends, and colleagues, who are in the habit of trusting the person's careful, objective analysis of people and events, are likely to take the ISTPs or INTPs conclusions as objectively true. They have little reason to doubt, for example, that the boss doesn't appreciate the INTP and won't let him do a particular project. They are therefore unlikely to inquire about the evidence used to reach this definitive-sounding judgment.

In its extreme form, the grip experience of Introverted Thinking types may manifest as a feeling of profound and infinite separateness from the whole of humanity. The ISTP or INTP is convinced that he or she is unloved and ultimately unlovable. Some relive childhood feelings of being extremely different from other children, marching to a different and unacceptable drummer, often with no clue about how others see things. The memory of childhood misery and helplessness may intensify the adult's inferior function experience.

Emotionalism

Effective dominant Extraverted Feeling types readily share their values with others and are comfortable expressing their emotions. In the grip of inferior Extraverted Feeling, Introverted Thinking types may not differentiate between the expression of Feeling values and the expression of emotion. We may witness confusion between Feeling as a judging function and emotion as a state of physiological arousal. Jung (1976b) was explicit in his differentiation of the two: "What I mean by feeling in contrast to thinking is a judgment of value; agreeable or disagreeable, good or bad, and so on. Feeling so defined is not an emotion or affect, which is, as the words convey, an involuntary manifestation. Feeling as I mean it is a judgment without any of the obvious bodily reactions that characterize an emotion. Like thinking, it is a rational function." (p. 219)

Nevertheless, it appears true that dominant Thinking types, especially those who favor Introversion, do not have ready access to their emotions when they are operating in their habitual, dominant mode. Often they report not knowing or being able to describe a feeling at the time it is occurring. Some INTPs, however, report being able to infer the presence of a feeling by attending to intuitive cues; it may be recounted later in Thinking, analytical terms. They fear that once in the realm of intense emotion, they may become possessed by it and never be able to get out. That is why descending into “the depths” is rare and entered into against the will of the Introverted Thinking type.

Lack of familiarity with felt emotion is probably due to the fact that Thinking judgment typically excludes subjective values and affective data from the decision-making process. How the Thinking type or others feel about things may be judged irrelevant to the problem at hand and therefore as interfering with logical decision making. In contrast, Feeling types typically consider such data entirely relevant to their decisions. Their primary decision-making criteria include personal values, feelings, and consequences for important people and institutions. Due to limited experience, therefore, Thinking types' emotional expression lacks the differentiation and subtlety of feeling seen in well differentiated Feeling types. When positive feelings are involved, they may seem maudlin and sentimental. One INTP said she becomes “mushy, sentimental, very outwardly emotional, and unpredictably so.” A young ISTP said, “At times I feel really emotional when I'm by myself thinking about things that normally wouldn't bother me.” With greater intensity, inferior Feeling comes out as raw, extreme emotion.

Feeling judgment seems to become increasingly exaggerated and obsessive, reaching a point where it no longer serves a judging purpose but becomes unbridled emotionalism. “I am 'hysterical.' I believe that nobody likes me and I am worthless . . . [and] have nothing to contribute to society. Whereas normally I am very happy to be alone, when I am 'not myself' I seek affirmation from everyone. I call all my friends until I feel better,” related an INTP. An ISTP said, “I talk about inner feelings and show emotions. I don't usually do that; I also express criticism toward others—I usually keep it to myself.”

When the contents of this normally unconscious, primitive function rise to the surface, they appear as a loss of control over emotional expression. There are reports of irritability and difficulty in holding back frustration and anger. In early phases, the Introverted Thinking type may become fidgety, trembling, and sarcastic, stomping around and making verbal attacks, exaggerating and accusing others. In more extreme cases, there may be physical outbursts that include breaking things and attacking people.

An INTP college student was deeply involved in a research paper when some of his friends invited him to go to a carnival with them. He refused, but they persisted anyway. When one grabbed his pen and paper and teasingly refused to return them, he began yelling at her and grabbed her arm. Both he and his friends were surprised and frightened by the swiftness and intensity of his reaction. Although expression of anger is common, especially in younger ISTPs and INTPs, often there is increasing self-pity and a sense of feeling neglected, unappreciated, and even victimized.

With greater loss of control, Introverted Thinking types can burst into tears with no warning. One wrong word can trigger an emotional outburst accompanied by rage, crying, and rising emotionality. Some describe feeling as if all their emotions are all mixed up, released with uncharacteristic spontaneity. “I start to notice my own feelings and become moody and impatient; I deny to others that anything is wrong, but all the while I feel like I am drowning in emotions,” said one ISTP. Another described being “very emotional and unable to keep my reactions to situations under control.” Not only are their own emotions problematic, but so are the emotional reactions of others. Some Introverted Thinking types say they cannot truly understand something in the Feeling arena if they haven’t actually experienced it. As a result, when they are in the grip of their inferior function, they find that emotions from others are upsetting and only intensify the magnitude of the situation.

The three manifestations of the inferior function typically appear together. One INTP feels martyred and cannot help snapping, whining, and complaining to people. She reports becoming very emotional and a little irrational, unable to organize or problem-solve with her usual efficiency and competence. Another INTP describes feeling numb, frozen, or enraged, as well as exhausted and unable to concentrate. Some describe an inability to keep their emotions to themselves, even though they wish to reveal little of their internal processes. In this state, said an ISTP, “I act out my displeasure rather than keeping it to myself as I am inclined to do. The actual acting out is usually brief, but feeling stressed out about it may last longer.” An INTP described the shame she associates with experiencing extreme feelings; she also described blaming others for not appreciating or loving her enough. Paramount is a sense of being misunderstood, with no way to correct the misunderstanding. Other ISTPs and INTPs report similar reactions.



------------------------------------------------


Inferior Si

Many young male and female ENTPs and ENFPs report becoming uncharacteristically quiet and reserved when they are out of character and find this in marked contrast to their usual openness and sociability. Like other young Extraverted types, they do not seem to find anything positive in moving to this Introverted approach, but are rather puzzled and surprised by it. “I become very quiet and reserved,” said an ENTP young man, “and I don’t talk to people like I normally do.” An ENFP young woman said, “Sometimes I withdraw from everyone, sit alone for hours, and just think. Let stuff stew in my head alone.” Older Extraverted Intuitive types also do not report much pleasure in being withdrawn, quiet, and reserved, and in losing their natural Extraverted Intuitive qualities. Said an ENFP, “I become very quiet, unsure about my thoughts and expressing them. I think a whole lot.”

As the connection with dominant Intuition diminishes, so do Extraverted Intuitive types’ characteristic enthusiasm, optimism, and energetic approach to life. When their hold on their dominant and auxiliary functions continues to taper off, the qualities of inferior Introverted Sensing manifest in withdrawal and depression, obsessiveness, and a focus on the body. For ENTPs, tertiary Feeling emerges as strong, uncontrollable, and emotional criticism that accompanies the obsessive “facts” that overwhelm them. The tertiary Thinking of ENFPs contributes to their obsessive “facts” the sarcastic, legalistic “logic” that proves others’ failings. The comparison between dominant and inferior Introverted Sensing is shown below:

Si-dominant Types
• Solitude and reflection
• Attention to facts and details
• Awareness of internal experience

Si-inferior Types
• Withdrawal and depression
• Obsessiveness
• Focus on the body

Two qualities of the negative, inferior forms of Introverted Sensing (obsessiveness and a focus on the body) are reflected in Jung’s (1976a) description of the inferior Introverted Sensing of ENTPs and ENFPs:

They take the form of intense projections which are . . . chiefly concerned with quasi-realities, such as sexual suspicions, financial hazards, forebodings of illness, etc. . . . [The Extraverted Intuitive may] fall victim to neurotic compulsions in the form of over-subtle ratiocinations, hair-splitting dialectics, and a compulsive tie to the sensation aroused by the object. . . . But sooner or later the object takes revenge in the form of compulsive hypochondriacal ideas, phobias, and every imaginable kind of absurd bodily sensation. (p. 370)

Withdrawal and Depression

Effective dominant Introverted Sensing types are in their element when they spend time alone in reflection. Processing their stored information is familiar and pleasurable, and they are energized by their Introverted Sensing activities. For ENTPs and ENFPs in the grip of inferior Introverted Sensing, the inward focus of energy is unfamiliar and disturbing. The diminution of Extraverted energy results in feelings of sadness and despair. Tertiary Thinking or Feeling may emerge as well. For ENTPs this comes out in a conviction that no one understands them or cares about them; they may become emotional and vulnerable in this state. ENFPs may demonstrate perverse logic and accuse others of not being rational, insisting that logic is the only acceptable criterion for making a decision.

In this condition, one ENTP describes feeling isolated, convinced that no one loves her or ever has. Another reports feeling hollow, turned off, “fixated on a narrow linear trap.” Another ENTP is plagued by an uncharacteristic emotionalism. “When things don’t go well, I resort to emotion to get my point across,” he explained. “There is a sense of feeling numb and frozen with no way out,” said an ENFP. “I have tunnel vision and lose my sense of time.” Another noted that when he is under too much pressure, his verbal skills deteriorate until “I become almost mute.” Many ENFPs describe turning inward, eventually becoming grumpy and depressed and putting people off. Their Feeling side seems to disappear. One ENFP said, “I realized I had become numb and frozen inside— there was no light, no energy—just a wasteland of a landscape, and I was plodding through it.” Another ENFP described “deep depression and hopelessness. The most extreme unrealistic scenarios become real and factual. I will be broke, I will die of some dread disease, I will lose all respect among professional colleagues.”

Both ENTPs and ENFPs report a loss of enthusiasm and motivation accompanied by low energy. They are prone to an uncharacteristic, uncomfortable pensiveness and are unable to find pleasure in the things they normally enjoy. This may lead to self-neglect and, ultimately, illness. This kind of approach to life is particularly alien to them, for they are usually enthusiastic, fun-loving, and full of energy. An ENFP said, “There is a lot more going on inside my head. I want to be alone to think and it becomes one-track thinking. Everything else is clouded by this one issue—I can’t stop thinking about it. I lose confidence in myself and doubt myself in every realm of my life.” One ENFP noted that twice a year, in winter and summer, she regularly experiences ten days to three weeks during which she retreats into herself and broods. Others describe periods of becoming withdrawn, critical, unfriendly, and cold. Isolation can exacerbate this reaction. An ENFP who was forced to spend a lot of time alone while recuperating from a badly broken leg was put on antidepressant medication after a month of increasingly lengthy periods of sobbing and despair.

Obsessiveness

Effective dominant Introverted Sensing types are adept at dealing with many facts and details and at putting their knowledge to practical use. In the psyche of ENTPs and ENFPs in the grip of inferior Introverted Sensing, this appears as an obsessive focus on one or two facts or details. This is in marked contrast to their typical perspective, which includes the broadest range of possibilities in the world.

The tunnel vision that accompanies the expression of all the inferior functions is particularly dramatic for ENTPs and ENFPs because they no longer have the Extraverted Intuitive energy necessary to envision a future that differs from their present obsession. All sense of possibilities is eliminated. An ENTP said that sometimes the details involved in a major project overwhelm her so much that she slips into an obsessive focus on how much time is left to work on the project: “I get it down to minutes and keep repeating the time frame over and over.” An ENFP said, “I can become compulsive when I begin to bring order into my kitchen or when I’m balancing the bank statement. I’m generally pretty relaxed about order and usually have piles of books and stuff that needs to be returned to file cabinets.” Another ENFP said, “I examine, analyze, question stupid things. I also get overly organized, planning and cleaning things rather than getting to the task appropriately. I work overtime to create organization for myself. I count things (like sides on a piece of furniture) over and over. I remember and get obsessed with facts and details, remember dates, memories of being bombarded with ‘unwanted greatness.’ I have an overwhelming need for all data to make every ‘little’ fact relevant.”

When their Intuition is not working, sensory data become the all encompassing objects of perception for Extraverted Intuitive types. But as their statements indicate, their lack of expertise in this area usually leads to an inappropriate selection of sensory data. And because “the future is now” in a very distorted way, they take the data at hand and project it into a vague, oppressive future. They may focus on a thought, such as “I’m alone now and will always be alone,” rather than the dominant Intuitive type’s more typical response of “I’m alone now; I wonder what interesting things I can find to do, and what exciting people I’ll find in the world.” In this state, the depression and hopelessness described earlier readily occur.

It seems that when inferior Sensing focuses on a single fact, dormant dominant Extraverted Intuition intrudes and generalizes it. Because their Extraverted Intuition is not functioning in its usual well-developed way, ENTPs and ENFPs cannot recognize the fact in question as one possibility among many. No perspective exists for the person beyond the one fact. Extraverted Intuitive types in this state report being unable to respond to alternatives presented to them by others. The present fact—be it pain, depression, or whatever occupies the central focus at that moment—is projected into forever.

Extraverted Intuitive types report one or more of the following ways of obsessing: being overly picky, getting upset about little things, becoming irritable, escalating small irritations into major issues, getting finicky over unimportant things, being nervous and jumpy with people, and becoming fussy, crabby, short-tempered, and rigid. “I am usually a very happy and relaxed person,” said one ENFP. “Sometimes I want people to just get to the bottom line, and then I want to analyze for them where they went wrong and just get on with it. This is quite out of character for me and I feel bad when I’ve been like this. People tell me that when I’m in my negative mode I become terse and clipped in my interactions with others. I give orders and delegate in a very autocratic manner.” An ENTP described becoming outraged by minor errors, irritated by detail, intolerant of interruptions and people—“the very things I usually welcome.” Another told of feeling overwhelmed and out of control, being unable to sort out priorities, and thus becoming inflexible. An ENFP described becoming curt with people, insensitive, literal, logical, and critical, and being especially insensitive and pedantic about language and vocabulary. Other ENFPs report doing obsessive record keeping, organizing data from their checkbooks, making endless lists of things to do, and putting minute details in order. “I become incredibly organized; everything is step by step when I’m under stress. I also act to get things done, not worrying as much about the impact,” said an ENFP.

Many ENFPs report fanatically mowing the lawn or cleaning house and being unable to stop themselves, even though they typically view these activities as relatively unimportant and avoid them. The ISTJ husband of one ENFP reluctantly admitted that he rather liked it when his wife was highly stressed because it was the only time the house ever got thoroughly cleaned! An ENFP described the following reaction as very distressing:

“I cannot respond to another’s conversation. I pace, the traffic is loud, the clock is loud, sounds I never noticed before are deafening and very slow. It’s almost as though time is standing still. My usual self is calm, patient, and friendly. I would classify not responding to the conversation of another as exceedingly rude behavior. And I’m generally oblivious to noise.”

Another ENFP becomes picky and critical of himself and others. Usually, he sees the bigger picture, is flexible, and allows others to be who they are without trying to control or change their behavior. On the day before the final examination in a workshop, when anxieties typically run high, a minor typesetting error was discovered in a table of data in the test manual. The instructor commented that there were two or three other errors in the text that would be corrected in the next printing. One ENFP heatedly stated that he wanted the publisher to prepare a document listing all the typos in the text and to send it to him so he wouldn’t have to buy a new text when the errors were corrected.

Focus on Body Sensations

When effective dominant Introverted Sensing types describe the nuances of their internal sensory experiences, one can marvel at the exquisite, evocative images that emerge. When an Extraverted
Intuitive type in the grip of inferior Introverted Sensing focuses on inner sensations and internal experiences, it often translates into exaggerated concern about physical “symptoms,” whose diagnostic meaning is always dire and extreme.

In the grip of their inferior function, ENTPs and ENFPs frequently Over-interpret real or imagined bodily sensations as indicative of illness. When they are in full command of their dominant and auxiliary functions, these types easily ignore or minimize messages from their bodies. So when they do focus on the body, it is done to the exclusion of everything else and with little experience of what is “normal” for them. A particular symptom can have only one cause, which must be life threatening or incurable: A pulled muscle is taken as a sign of heart disease; indigestion signifies an impending heart attack; and a headache is believed to be a brain tumor. It seems that when their Intuition isn’t working, they react to messages from their bodies rigidly and absolutely. An ENTP had been in a rare bad mood for several days but was unable to identify any cause. One morning while shaving, he noticed that when he turned his eyes to the left, the white in his right eye crinkled. He had never noticed that before and was terrified that something was terribly wrong with his eyes. Before making an appointment with an eye doctor, however, he decided to observe other people’s eyes to determine just how bad his were. To his relief (and chagrin), he found that everyone’s eyes moved the same way his did. He had simply never bothered to look at eyes—his own or other people’s—at all closely before.

An ENFP fell and injured a small bone in her back, which she could feel as a bump. She asked a friend, who was a nurse, what the bump could be and was told that it was probably a cyst. She quickly translated the cyst into cancer and imagined herself on Medicaid dying alone in a squalid hospital ward. In fact, all that was necessary was a visit to a chiropractor to have the bone put back in place. During a particularly stressful time, another ENFP woman insisted that her husband have an otherwise innocent-appearing wart removed because she feared it was malignant. An ENFP man reported that in times of great stress he becomes obsessed with illness. Once, when he had a routine liver function test, he became convinced he was dying of liver cancer before the test was even performed. Another ENFP told of owning a blood pressure cuff he rarely uses—except when he becomes very stressed, at which times he takes his blood pressure three times a day.

One ENTP described taking any fact and blowing it out of proportion— for example, imagining an illness in his child as a fatal disease.

Others report having a low pain threshold, fearing the dentist, and reacting to stress with a number of somatic symptoms. In fact, though physical symptoms as an expression of stress are common across types, it may be possible that “somaticizing” is more prevalent among Extraverted Intuitive types. One ENTP had digestive problems for fifteen years. During a period of extreme stress, he developed a life-threatening bleeding ulcer. An ENFP and an ENTP discovered in a discussion that they both have medical conditions that force them to attend to their bodies—something they did not do prior to having the conditions. As a result, they more readily attend to their other physical needs as well.

There is an interesting contrast between the imagined negative outcomes of minor bodily symptoms reported by Extraverted Intuitive types and the catastrophizing that is an expression of the inferior Extraverted Intuition of Introverted Sensing types. Although there is some seeming similarity, the processes through which the two negative expressions occur are actually quite different. For Introverted Sensing types, the future is always somewhat suspect, so stress encourages them to imagine and anticipate a future filled with negative outcomes. Extraverted Intuitive types, in contrast, are typically optimistic and welcoming of future possibilities. But when they get stuck on a present fact or situation, they lose sight of the future, imagining it as an endless repetition of the negative situation that is occurring right now.

One way in which Extraverted Intuitive types may try to return to being themselves when chronically stressed is to vacillate between the extremes of frenetic Extraverted and Introverted Sensing. Because both extremes are likely to be exaggerated and undisciplined, little of substance is accomplished in either state. When they finally succumb to negative Introverted Sensing, it may take the form of moderate to severe depression and a sense of hopelessness about the future. One ENFP said, “I get into a downward spiral. One time I went into a stress-induced depression. I almost left my job and made it back through therapy.” Perhaps because ENTPs and ENFPs thrive on the threshold of chronic stress, they seem to have a high tolerance for situations that might prove debilitating for many other types. ENTPs in particular report very few sources of stress in their lives, and both types report a low incidence of heart disease and hypertension, ENTPs having the lowest incidence of all the types. This is in marked contrast to their opposite types, ISTJs and ISFJs.

Extraverted Intuitive types are likely to leave work situations in which conditions become intolerable, but usually not because they are overloaded or forced to work very hard. Rather, such conditions as working with incompetent people (especially for ENTPs) or being forced to adhere to unacceptable work values (especially for ENFPs) are likely to trigger quitting the noxious situation. Sometimes becoming ill or depressed and recognizing how different they have become can force these types to take action. Some of the flavor of what constitutes a noxious work setting is captured in this statement by an ENTP who said that stress was a very important factor in quitting her job: “I reacted by leaving an organization and becoming an independent consultant. I can select the work I want and the people I work with. I can arrange my own schedule. There are no stupid rules and regulations. I enjoy helping organizations function better, but I don’t want to be part of one.” She had earlier described the most stressful work demands of her previous job as “working with incompetent people, not having control of my own schedule and activities, and running up against a lot of stupid rules and regulations.”
 

Pionart

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I'll say for now that I can read you as being Fe+Ti and Ne+Si.

edit: I looked at a few of your posts, and you start some off with terms like "if...", "the premise...", suggesting you lead with Ti.

I find that, as an INFJ, I have skills in Ti, and while Se is a part of my personality, I don't have skills in it per se. Te can be frustrating, but Si can be crippling, in terms of the negativity I associate with remembering things.

So that might apply for your respective 3rd and 4th, and 7th and 8th functions.

Teriary call and responses = frustrating

Inferior call and responses = overwhelming
 

lunalum

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I'll say for now that I can read you as being Fe+Ti and Ne+Si.

edit: I looked at a few of your posts, and you start some off with terms like "if...", "the premise...", suggesting you lead with Ti.

Well, that's a good start. When you say lead with Ti do you mean in Ti dominant way or simply Ti>Fe?

Yeah, I have some of those classic qualifiers in my speech. Also though should be noted for analyzing my speech in this thread so far, I'm keeping the Ne style interjections somewhat in check because honestly, that's gonna keep this thread going on forever :laugh:

I'll get back to the tertiary/inferior call and responses thing later.
 

Pionart

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Well, that's a good start. When you say lead with Ti do you mean in Ti dominant way or simply Ti>Fe?

Yeah, I have some of those classic qualifiers in my speech. Also though should be noted for analyzing my speech in this thread so far, I'm keeping the Ne style interjections somewhat in check because honestly, that's gonna keep this thread going on forever :laugh:

I'll get back to the tertiary/inferior call and responses thing later.

It means Ti dominant, because those things show up straight away. The dominant function is generally shown straight away in a post, and the next functions show up one after another in a sequence.

There are other ways of looking at it though where, say, the tertiary will be present all through it. But by the function order approach, leading means dominant.
 

lunalum

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One thing I'm not sure of is how much of a thing is it to be in a sort of chronic "grip of the inferior"? Like IME it's like there's in the grip, and then there's really in the grip where it's a temporary lost/very interrupted access to dominant mindsets that can last from a few hours to several weeks at the very worst. This morning seems like the latter. But then there are the less extreme disliked stuff that I carry on a more regular basis.

It's hard for me to communicate right now, but for the moment I'll at least say that Fe is more frustrating and Si is more overwhelming. I get what you mean now about the 8th function being crippling as it is like the most threatening as a replacement for the dominant.
 

Pionart

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One thing I'm not sure of is how much of a thing is it to be in a sort of chronic "grip of the inferior"? Like IME it's like there's in the grip, and then there's really in the grip where it's a temporary lost/very interrupted access to dominant mindsets that can last from a few hours to several weeks at the very worst. This morning seems like the latter. But then there are the less extreme disliked stuff that I carry on a more regular basis.

It's hard for me to communicate right now, but for the moment I'll at least say that Fe is more frustrating and Si is more overwhelming. I get what you mean now about the 8th function being crippling as it is like the most threatening as a replacement for the dominant.

I don't know what "grip" implies exactly, apart from simply overusing a weaker function at the expense of a stronger function. The inferior can be overused for years even, such as an INTP who thinks they're an INFJ and tries to use Fe more than Ti. I was in a tertiary-grip, I suppose, for much of high school. I was the quiet maths kid.

Yeah Si can be crippling for that reason... it's like things from the past can be impediments to moving on with the future.

For Ti and Se, I found them comfortable to use as long as they're sailing smoothly. Ti problems cause a kind of "burning" sensation throughout my body, basically a frustrated feeling, whereas Se problems can lead to shaking and wanting to flee a situation.

I do think you're an INTP though. The post I'm quoting here seems to show a Si then Fe function order, which is consistent with INTP skipping to the tertiary, but not consistent with ENTP. It's consistent with ISFJ as well obviously, but as I said I generally saw you leading with Ti in the posts I looked at.
 

lunalum

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I don't know what "grip" implies exactly, apart from simply overusing a weaker function at the expense of a stronger function. The inferior can be overused for years even, such as an INTP who thinks they're an INFJ and tries to use Fe more than Ti. I was in a tertiary-grip, I suppose, for much of high school. I was the quiet maths kid.

Yeah Si can be crippling for that reason... it's like things from the past can be impediments to moving on with the future.

For Ti and Se, I found them comfortable to use as long as they're sailing smoothly. Ti problems cause a kind of "burning" sensation throughout my body, basically a frustrated feeling, whereas Se problems can lead to shaking and wanting to flee a situation.

I do think you're an INTP though. The post I'm quoting here seems to show a Si then Fe function order, which is consistent with INTP skipping to the tertiary, but not consistent with ENTP. It's consistent with ISFJ as well obviously, but as I said I generally saw you leading with Ti in the posts I looked at.

Well I felt pretty darn ISFJ earlier today lol. I'm mostly recovered now. I think I just ran my energy dry that time and accidentally triggered exactly what we've been talking about. The timing is uncanny. But I mean also if I have like both Fe and Si repressed then that would line up with INTP too. Jung talked about it like we sort of repress everything but the dominant? So this would be in between the two models.
 

Pionart

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Well I felt pretty darn ISFJ earlier today lol. I'm mostly recovered now. I think I just ran my energy dry that time and accidentally triggered exactly what we've been talking about. The timing is uncanny. But I mean also if I have like both Fe and Si repressed then that would line up with INTP too. Jung talked about it like we sort of repress everything but the dominant? So this would be in between the two models.

I think if you naturally have low levels of a given function, then it wouldn't be correct to use the term repressed. If you're avoid using your inferior at all, then it's repressed, and if you're overusing your inferior at the expense of your dominant, then your dominant is repressed.

Identifying with a personality type, like INTP as Ti-Ne-Si-Fe, can lead to repression of the other 4 functions - Te, Ni, Se, and Fi - because we assume we just don't use them, or something along those lines. So I think my Ne, Fi, Te, and Si would be somewhat repressed over the last few years due to identifying with INFJ, but I have tried to remedy that using the secondary types model. So I am also a bit INFP, ISFJ, and ESTJ, as well as smaller amounts of all the rest, so my Si wouldn't actually be that bad for example. I just assume my memory, attention to detail etc. is horrendous because it's "supposed" to be in an INFJ, but if I relax the restrictions that a single type designation places on my mind, then that will stop being the case so much. And so too, identying with the cognitive functions or dichotomies in general leads to a repression of the other sides of the personality, so on the one hand I like models similar to 8 Circuits of Consciousness, but I also recognise the importance of understanding oneself without referring to a model at all, but rather perceiving what is, as it is.
 

lunalum

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I have taken a step back and been reevaluating my previous understanding of function dynamics. I agree that if you keep looking at yourself with just the model then you end up missing a lot. That was my main reason for taking a break from this stuff. As we make big personal changes, it makes sense that even our function dynamics can change. Like it could be that I had the Fe/Ti challenges typical of an INTP when I was a youngster, but as I have developed my extroverted functions, my entire dynamic has shifted to Si/Ne challenges that are more typical of ENTPs. So in this, if there is a such thing as a "core type," it would be INTP. But like.... it makes more sense to think of myself as an ENTP at this point in time? If that makes any sense. Like, I'm still not even a social extrovert, but I'm pretty sure that Ti chilled out and Ne took the wheel like..... 8 years ago. :laugh: This is all in terms of function-attitude, I should note. I've long given up on the concept of usage (at least in determining dominant function). And I'm keeping the Z for now, because ambiversion is cool :D (the Z and I have actually had a long history, that is a whole other story...)

Enneagram side note: I have probably always been a 7, but I'm not a party animal and INTP 7 seemed ridiculous so I was hesitant for a little while. But yeah at least the 7 part is a good fit.
 
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