type me and AMA

[Vendrah]

Wow...

I checked consistency of these 3 results and it seems consistent.
You are the most extraverted neurotic person (neuroticism higher than 80% plus emotion below 10%) so far. Question: Have you been very encouraged to socialize or it is on an activity where you really have to deal with people?
That is really different. Generally, people with high neuroticism gets low on extraversion, at least on Big 5. And thats why generally they put positive emotions and extroversion (and then starts to get with that idea that everybody needs other people in their lives, enneagram type 5 INTPs might disagree lol), but thats clearly not your case.

As I said, with Neuroticism so high its very difficult to evaluate. Your results can change and for the moment I cant tackle that.
For the moment, I can tell you for sure that you are a F type for sure. Did you ever get T on a dichotomy test? If not, then you should be in long-term a F type. The signs of Feeling over thinking in all 3 tests are all there clearly.
A second thing, I only have the neurotic INFP profile on Big 5, not the non-neurotic one. You are miles away from the regular neurotic INFP, incredibly distant, to the point that I think INFP is not really your type.

The question I made above is difficult to test, but so far seems to match... Being a J type with high Fi is something that, as I said before, it is possible but requires very specific Fi use, in a way that I am far from completely know how (or even if it is healthy to do so). The few traces where Fi = Myers Judging are found here (the ones that already normally happens)... Dutifulness high, morality high, Fi high, it does check.
It could be that you use Fi activating Myers Judging primordial values as much as possible and leaving perceiving ones as much as possible (and Neuroticism do that magic? Well, I dont think so). Its a possibility, not a certainty. I say that because you in cognitive function seems to have higher Fi than Fe, on the writing as well, yet all dichotomy related stuff points towards a judging type. Which means that you could be a FJ type that prefers Fi over Fe, meaning that you would be more or less a Fi type on cognitive functions and FJ on dichotomy? If that ever happens, its super rare, but in terms of how I conceptualized Fi, it is possible.

Si-Fi or Fi-Si is always an interesting thing, I used to think its a type on its own. As far as I could detect so far, however, Si-Fi is a FP type in transit for one of the SJ types, some examples suggest transformations such as INFP->ISTJ, ENFP->ISTJ, etc... and that process is expected to be stressful, and long. However, the normal types so far are quite introverts, not slightly extroverted so far. The reverse transformation, ISTJ->ENFP or ISTJ->INFP is extremely unlikely and have a very low or near zero probability to happen.

It could be you having a misaccurate vision of yourself? Perhaps, but at least the vision of yourself does have "internal consistency", since you answered all 3 questionaries following a same pattern or vision of yourself.

I did some distance, and you are very distant from lots of MBTI types lol.
In Big 5 (I have only INFJ, INFP, ENFP, ENTP and INTP types) distancing, you were closer (but yet somewhat distant) to the INFJ type than all NPs.
In keys2cognition test, you were far from most types. All F types came foward of T types. The closest type, no enneagram, was ISFJ (33.6), ESFJ (41.2), ENFJ (55.3), ISFP (55.5), ESFP (56.8), ENFP (60.4), INFJ (62.4), INFP (64.7) and the most distant T types were ISTP (99.1) and INTJ (92.1). I do have some few enneagrams combinations for INs (except INTP since 3 in 4 INTPs are type 5, and two for ENFP). Enneagram-wise, INFP 9 passed ISFJ as the closest match of all (the number of stacks I gathered was quite low but it seems that INFPs enneagram 9 usually have strong Si). INFP 9 (32.3), INFJ 6 (36.9), INFP 5 (61.8), INFP 4 (66.3), INFJ 4 (66.4), INFJ 9 (67) and ENFP 9 and 7 is already inside the Thinkers zone.

About enneagram and Big 5, without considering Neuroticism, type 1 was the best fit (it had the most match, you deviate just in Openness, type 1 are supposed to have less Openness), followed by type 2. Consider Neuroticism, everythings goes fuzzy and nothing matches because type 6 and type 4 are the neurotic ones yet you dont have a Big 5 profile pointing towards them.

I also noticed that in E/I category, you seem to have a bit deviation on E/I depends on the concepts.
In the concept where E/I is in terms sociability, things are suggesting you are slightly or somewhat turned to the E side.
In the concept where E is orientated by the object (objective), and I is oriented by the subject (subjective), you are slightly or somewhat turned to the I side.
I think you might get Extroverted on good dichotomy tests, while getting Introverted on good cognitive functions tests. I think thats right, correct?

Finally, its very confusing as high Neuroticism cases mostly are, Im only sure about F, and, forcing a pick, I would pick ISFP intuitive-sensor in cognitive functions, with Fi influencing S and pulling intuitive functions up, that is rather ISFJ in dichotomies. And enneagram type 1w2. But, I dont know... Could you be an intuitive type with colossal Si? Well, I dont know..

Hope I help, I made a lot of points but I couldnt be really that much conclusive.

 

[Red Memories]

[MENTION=32874]Vendrah[/MENTION] thank you for the large input, let me discuss some of this moreso XD

You are the most extraverted neurotic person (neuroticism higher than 80% plus emotion below 10%) so far. Question: Have you been very encouraged to socialize or it is on an activity where you really have to deal with people?: I think it depends the circumstance. I do not really go out of my way to say, meet a lot of new people or such. In class or work activities, I tend to feel the only way to get things done is to do it yourself and do not really trust most to do their share, so I tend moreso to take charge and leadership positions because otherwise things may be a trainwreck. That mix I think makes my "extraversion" look higher. I also like to have discussions where I feel I can dip my toes in and actually learn something. I get bored with people if all they are going to do is "small talk" me. We will drift apart quick. I'm not hard to be friends with but I find it hard to keep friends since I have a tendency to be somewhat critical. I realize in the world I am forced to work with people therefore I must find a way to make things happen with the least damage, and I find that usually means I take charge and delegate.

For the moment, I can tell you for sure that you are a F type for sure. Did you ever get T on a dichotomy test? If not, then you should be in long-term a F type. The signs of Feeling over thinking in all 3 tests are all there clearly.
A second thing, I only have the neurotic INFP profile on Big 5, not the non-neurotic one. You are miles away from the regular neurotic INFP, incredibly distant, to the point that I think INFP is not really your type.: I do believe I am likely a high F type but sometimes I do wonder about it. I think my tendency toward distrust and frustration with people makes me think I am less sensitive than I am, but I also wonder if I think I am more sensitive than I actually am. A constant struggle I have with assessments is the bit of extremes when it comes to how feelers handle things. Certainly, I care more for someone I care for's emotions, higher than my own, but if someone draws over my moral line my "empathy" dies. I knew a girl in my classroom who mocked homeless people and I couldn't help but think if she was homeless, I would throw a bottle at her. I can be very bitter. I also have little sympathy for people who have smaller issues that can be easily managed but ignore any sort of advice because it is hard. Don't ask for my help if you're just going to be lazy.
The only time I ever got a T was a couple assessments in the past saying they could not really tell but their closest idea was ISTJ, even though my "feeling" was still higher than my thinking. I broke the test. XD Otherwise I've gotten feeling as my highest every single time.

It could be you having a misaccurate vision of yourself? Perhaps, but at least the vision of yourself does have "internal consistency", since you answered all 3 questionaries following a same pattern or vision of yourself.: I am sure this is always a risk. My mother has jokingly considered me a walking contradiction. I think it is because sometimes I have a hard time deciding in fact what I really go with. I am very emotionally impulsive. Which impulse is an Se thing, so I have sometimes considered perhaps I am more Se than I possibly perceive myself, but due to past negative events my anxiety disorder tempers my formerly impulsive nature. But emotionally I am very rash, I will easily lash out or cry over a small incident. I tend to consistently have the same issue answering for things for myself so it makes sense. Some things I do know for sure though: I am extremely emotionally impulsive, I believe in working hard, I always have a tendency regardless of who it is to defend a moral value if it arises as needed. I also know flaw wise I tend to sometimes not finish what I start, I tend to see a new thing and get excited and lose track of the other things, I am bad with money or at least saving it, I can be self-righteous at times and I have had friends be "ok mom." with me, I tend to be insecure about relationships so I tend to sometimes be overly confrontational, but despite being confrontational as seeing necessary I dislike confrontation, I am very opinionated and can sometimes come off in your face, I have a short temper, I do not like people who are "two-faced" by this I mean someone who says one thing to me but does and actually believes/feels another way. Even if I dislike you I will have more respect knowing your true values than I do for someone who butters me up and lies to flatter me.

In Big 5 (I have only INFJ, INFP, ENFP, ENTP and INTP types) distancing, you were closer (but yet somewhat distant) to the INFJ type than all NPs.:
In my entire time of testing I have only received INFJ once. It was actually during a time I was feeling calmer and more level-headed. Maybe there's some truth. Some people have suggested in the past who have known me longer as ENFJ, including an offline friend who types as INFJ. I enjoy talking to many INTPs but I also realize my head doesn't really work the way theirs seems to.

In keys2cognition test, you were far from most types. All F types came foward of T types. The closest type, no enneagram, was ISFJ (33.6), ESFJ (41.2), ENFJ (55.3), ISFP (55.5), ESFP (56.8), ENFP (60.4), INFJ (62.4), INFP (64.7) and the most distant T types were ISTP (99.1) and INTJ (92.1). I do have some few enneagrams combinations for INs (except INTP since 3 in 4 INTPs are type 5, and two for ENFP). Enneagram-wise, INFP 9 passed ISFJ as the closest match of all (the number of stacks I gathered was quite low but it seems that INFPs enneagram 9 usually have strong Si). INFP 9 (32.3), INFJ 6 (36.9), INFP 5 (61.8), INFP 4 (66.3), INFJ 4 (66.4), INFJ 9 (67) and ENFP 9 and 7 is already inside the Thinkers zone.: EW ISTP I kid but in seriousness for some reason me and ISTPs always argue. We're both boneheaded I think. I find INFP 9 interesting considering the last thing I've ever considered myself is a type 9. I have considered I could mistake myself as a 1 when I am possibly an E8 though, and there I'd likely be 8w9. Could that be a possibility?

About enneagram and Big 5, without considering Neuroticism, type 1 was the best fit (it had the most match, you deviate just in Openness, type 1 are supposed to have less Openness), followed by type 2. Consider Neuroticism, everythings goes fuzzy and nothing matches because type 6 and type 4 are the neurotic ones yet you dont have a Big 5 profile pointing towards them.: I am open as long as you are open. If you start talking over me or attempting to steam roll me I stop being considerate and go into anger mode. Eye for an eye. Yes it makes the world blind but its a dog eat dog world aye. I can relate to that though, I tend to test for E6 a lot but I always struggle decipering 6 from possibly my anxiety disorder. I formerly typed as E2 rather than E4 but many tried to show me where I was E4. I still sometimes wonder if it is E1 disintegrating at times and I am E2. I actually have a huge issue deciphering my head type. I never related much to E7 although some have shown me some of my obsessive qualities can relate to E7, I actually tend to consider the possibility of E5 because I relate to that fear of not being able to function in society, and needing constant knowledge. But E5 also tends to lean on thinker types and I don't know if it is that strong.

I also noticed that in E/I category, you seem to have a bit deviation on E/I depends on the concepts.
In the concept where E/I is in terms sociability, things are suggesting you are slightly or somewhat turned to the E side.
In the concept where E is orientated by the object (objective), and I is oriented by the subject (subjective), you are slightly or somewhat turned to the I side.
I think you might get Extroverted on good dichotomy tests, while getting Introverted on good cognitive functions tests. I think thats right, correct?:
Yes. Actually on 16 personalities, I regularly shift very slight percentages between E and I. I usually end up something of E, by just a few percentage points. On dichotomy style tests I tend to actually have a similar issue with N and S. Depending my mood I shift S or N. Function tests tend to see me as INFx. Dichtomy tests tend to see me as ExFJ. just my history. My very original typology typing from 14 to early adulthood was actually ESFJ.

 

[Vendrah]

[MENTION=32874]Vendrah[/MENTION] thank you for the large input, let me discuss some of this moreso XD

You are the most extraverted neurotic person (neuroticism higher than 80% plus emotion below 10%) so far. Question: Have you been very encouraged to socialize or it is on an activity where you really have to deal with people?: I think it depends the circumstance. I do not really go out of my way to say, meet a lot of new people or such. In class or work activities, I tend to feel the only way to get things done is to do it yourself and do not really trust most to do their share, so I tend moreso to take charge and leadership positions because otherwise things may be a trainwreck. That mix I think makes my "extraversion" look higher. I also like to have discussions where I feel I can dip my toes in and actually learn something. I get bored with people if all they are going to do is "small talk" me. We will drift apart quick. I'm not hard to be friends with but I find it hard to keep friends since I have a tendency to be somewhat critical. I realize in the world I am forced to work with people therefore I must find a way to make things happen with the least damage, and I find that usually means I take charge and delegate.

For the moment, I can tell you for sure that you are a F type for sure. Did you ever get T on a dichotomy test? If not, then you should be in long-term a F type. The signs of Feeling over thinking in all 3 tests are all there clearly.
A second thing, I only have the neurotic INFP profile on Big 5, not the non-neurotic one. You are miles away from the regular neurotic INFP, incredibly distant, to the point that I think INFP is not really your type.: I do believe I am likely a high F type but sometimes I do wonder about it. I think my tendency toward distrust and frustration with people makes me think I am less sensitive than I am, but I also wonder if I think I am more sensitive than I actually am. A constant struggle I have with assessments is the bit of extremes when it comes to how feelers handle things. Certainly, I care more for someone I care for's emotions, higher than my own, but if someone draws over my moral line my "empathy" dies. I knew a girl in my classroom who mocked homeless people and I couldn't help but think if she was homeless, I would throw a bottle at her. I can be very bitter. I also have little sympathy for people who have smaller issues that can be easily managed but ignore any sort of advice because it is hard. Don't ask for my help if you're just going to be lazy.
The only time I ever got a T was a couple assessments in the past saying they could not really tell but their closest idea was ISTJ, even though my "feeling" was still higher than my thinking. I broke the test. XD Otherwise I've gotten feeling as my highest every single time.

It could be you having a misaccurate vision of yourself? Perhaps, but at least the vision of yourself does have "internal consistency", since you answered all 3 questionaries following a same pattern or vision of yourself.: I am sure this is always a risk. My mother has jokingly considered me a walking contradiction. I think it is because sometimes I have a hard time deciding in fact what I really go with. I am very emotionally impulsive. Which impulse is an Se thing, so I have sometimes considered perhaps I am more Se than I possibly perceive myself, but due to past negative events my anxiety disorder tempers my formerly impulsive nature. But emotionally I am very rash, I will easily lash out or cry over a small incident. I tend to consistently have the same issue answering for things for myself so it makes sense. Some things I do know for sure though: I am extremely emotionally impulsive, I believe in working hard, I always have a tendency regardless of who it is to defend a moral value if it arises as needed. I also know flaw wise I tend to sometimes not finish what I start, I tend to see a new thing and get excited and lose track of the other things, I am bad with money or at least saving it, I can be self-righteous at times and I have had friends be "ok mom." with me, I tend to be insecure about relationships so I tend to sometimes be overly confrontational, but despite being confrontational as seeing necessary I dislike confrontation, I am very opinionated and can sometimes come off in your face, I have a short temper, I do not like people who are "two-faced" by this I mean someone who says one thing to me but does and actually believes/feels another way. Even if I dislike you I will have more respect knowing your true values than I do for someone who butters me up and lies to flatter me.

In Big 5 (I have only INFJ, INFP, ENFP, ENTP and INTP types) distancing, you were closer (but yet somewhat distant) to the INFJ type than all NPs.:
In my entire time of testing I have only received INFJ once. It was actually during a time I was feeling calmer and more level-headed. Maybe there's some truth. Some people have suggested in the past who have known me longer as ENFJ, including an offline friend who types as INFJ. I enjoy talking to many INTPs but I also realize my head doesn't really work the way theirs seems to.

In keys2cognition test, you were far from most types. All F types came foward of T types. The closest type, no enneagram, was ISFJ (33.6), ESFJ (41.2), ENFJ (55.3), ISFP (55.5), ESFP (56.8), ENFP (60.4), INFJ (62.4), INFP (64.7) and the most distant T types were ISTP (99.1) and INTJ (92.1). I do have some few enneagrams combinations for INs (except INTP since 3 in 4 INTPs are type 5, and two for ENFP). Enneagram-wise, INFP 9 passed ISFJ as the closest match of all (the number of stacks I gathered was quite low but it seems that INFPs enneagram 9 usually have strong Si). INFP 9 (32.3), INFJ 6 (36.9), INFP 5 (61.8), INFP 4 (66.3), INFJ 4 (66.4), INFJ 9 (67) and ENFP 9 and 7 is already inside the Thinkers zone.: EW ISTP I kid but in seriousness for some reason me and ISTPs always argue. We're both boneheaded I think. I find INFP 9 interesting considering the last thing I've ever considered myself is a type 9. I have considered I could mistake myself as a 1 when I am possibly an E8 though, and there I'd likely be 8w9. Could that be a possibility?

About enneagram and Big 5, without considering Neuroticism, type 1 was the best fit (it had the most match, you deviate just in Openness, type 1 are supposed to have less Openness), followed by type 2. Consider Neuroticism, everythings goes fuzzy and nothing matches because type 6 and type 4 are the neurotic ones yet you dont have a Big 5 profile pointing towards them.: I am open as long as you are open. If you start talking over me or attempting to steam roll me I stop being considerate and go into anger mode. Eye for an eye. Yes it makes the world blind but its a dog eat dog world aye. I can relate to that though, I tend to test for E6 a lot but I always struggle decipering 6 from possibly my anxiety disorder. I formerly typed as E2 rather than E4 but many tried to show me where I was E4. I still sometimes wonder if it is E1 disintegrating at times and I am E2. I actually have a huge issue deciphering my head type. I never related much to E7 although some have shown me some of my obsessive qualities can relate to E7, I actually tend to consider the possibility of E5 because I relate to that fear of not being able to function in society, and needing constant knowledge. But E5 also tends to lean on thinker types and I don't know if it is that strong.

I also noticed that in E/I category, you seem to have a bit deviation on E/I depends on the concepts.
In the concept where E/I is in terms sociability, things are suggesting you are slightly or somewhat turned to the E side.
In the concept where E is orientated by the object (objective), and I is oriented by the subject (subjective), you are slightly or somewhat turned to the I side.
I think you might get Extroverted on good dichotomy tests, while getting Introverted on good cognitive functions tests. I think thats right, correct?:
Yes. Actually on 16 personalities, I regularly shift very slight percentages between E and I. I usually end up something of E, by just a few percentage points. On dichotomy style tests I tend to actually have a similar issue with N and S. Depending my mood I shift S or N. Function tests tend to see me as INFx. Dichtomy tests tend to see me as ExFJ. just my history. My very original typology typing from 14 to early adulthood was actually ESFJ.

Now that I had some time after my post I realize one thing.
If we simply cut MBTI and cognitive functions out of your type (and forget Neuroticism for a while), then there is nothing too mixed on you. Using Enneagram and Big 5 only (forgetting the cognitive functions and MBTI), you are simply a type 1, slightly extraverted, with slightly higher than average agreeableness, high conscientiousness, and with a slightly higher than average Openness to Experience. And it goes as simple as that. Big 5 will be slightly kinder than usual (just doing a PS, Big 5 is super kind with ENFJ and super harsh with ISTP).

Things gets complicated in Jung psychology, where things starts to be messy. I do think you should stick to 1 in Enneagram and that you should be any feeling type. I only have a very limited number of possible types, so INFP 9 arrived high because at least it was better than INFJ 6, INFP 4, etc.. Because the only MBTI and enneagram type 1 combo I have is INTJ, however you are very far from INTJ type.

Sorry if I get too far, but what do you think causes your high Neuroticism? It bothers you, right? Did you ever asked for professional help? Because I think most people with Neuroticism higher than 80% should look for psychological help, really. Even if you dont even mention type and it is one of these psychologists who dont use typing much or dont use at all, it can still helps.

Getting a little bit back on track, I still think that you had find a way to use Fi as a Judging function, although I cant really differentiate a MBTI Judging type that uses high Fi or a person with high Fi that is a Judger, but wait... these things are still the same thing, the only difference is where you start your view (from cognitive functions or dichotomy lens). I can have some explain how your Judging in MBTI is different from the others Judging people, and that might bring a light to why you seem sometimes as a walking contradiction (Neuroticism helps with that).

As [MENTION=22236]OldFolksBoogie[/MENTION] explained me once, Judging and Perceiving on MBTI is based on the highest extraverted cognitive function (for types in an average, general and more stereotypical way). So, for example, ISTJ have Si (which is a perceiving function in Jung; Perceptive functions in Jung are Se,Si,Ne and Ni, while Judging cognitive functions are Te,Ti,Fe and Fi) and Te, that is a judging function. Since Te is the highest extraverted cognitive function on ISTJ type, then ISTJ will go as a J. INFP for example have Fi, which is a judging function, but the highest extraverted function is Ne, so INFP goes as a perceiver in Myers J/P frame. Because in Jung's frame, you might not know it but in Jung's frame (and socionics follow that) INFP is a judger and ISTJ is a perceiver.

With that on mind, the Judging traits are more or less seen in terms of Fe and Te (while perceiving traits are more or less seen in terms of Ne and Se). Most of time, at least. If you pick up a image of dichotomy J/P, you got something like this:

So, for example, you see things such as Openness (Openness to Experience, that screams Ne), options (possibilities, its Ne again), spontaneous (people who are spontaneous decide things on the present moment, which screams Se) and etc... In the other side, closure (ok, thats more like E/I trait but whatever I think I misunderstood it), decision (being decisive - Ok perhaps thats Ni), scheduled (thats pretty much Te), organized (in definition, its Te or Fe), plan (Te goals aspects), control (Te trait), now (just means "dutiful", perhaps?).
So, its pretty much Fe and Te, which are Extraverted Judgment. Extraverted Judgment is related to social norms - in Jung Fe description and most post-Jung Fe description that is very presented, but thats also an aspect of Te (even if Jung doesnt make much attention for it, post-Jung stuff will). It is related to social standards and social stuff, it is related to judgments of societys.
So, basically most J types, except INTJ and INFJ a tiny little and some enneagram J combos, will have their J motivated by something related to external standards. They will want people to look them as organized. They will make decisions based a lot on standards sets externally, either by Te or Fe. Their schedule is related to something like that. Their control might be related at measures being done in a Te fashion, or in a "Feeling-control" scheme.
But you shouldnt be relating much to this, not really (just some). Thats how different your J are from the rest of people. Although you do have some Fe and Te, your J is motivated by something related to Si (cognitive functions can be used in a different way and enneagram can give a light on that; For example, Te used in a INTJ 5 is different from Te used in a ENTJ 8; In your case Si is likely used in a Enneagram 1 way, a moralistic SJ component used by ISTJ/ISFJ/ESTJ 1s basically and likely a dead component for ESTJ and ESFJ in other enneagrams, like ESTJ 8) and a part of it should come from Fi (although some people might think Im making a conceptual mistake here since no J MBTI should come from Fi but thats not entirely true). You are not mainly motivated to do J stuff by external components, but rather by internal components. For example, a regular J might think: "What others will think of me if they see this mess? No way! It needs to be organized", while you would simply needs to be organized because you will feel, in a gut or emotional or both way, that you need to be organized. A regular J might explain that things needs to be done because somebody do it this way, because thats how its done, something that might evoke some standards. Your line perhaps is... Things needs to be done that way because.. they do? That sometimes give you a perceiving and perhaps loose and carelessness answer while it is not? Im risking a little bit here and sorry if Im wrong, but you know that your case needs plenty of effort to understand, really.

I think things can be better explained if I explain morality J vs Fi morality. Morality J is more related to Fe and Te... We do have social ethics (or morals, depending on what definition you are using), social shared values (Fe) and Te can also catch some external values as well, although with more difficult. While Fi, instead, will cast these values from inside. So, a Fe user might, for example, be driven by the shared value of Freedom and that people needs to be Free, because thats a general accepted value (if you are in the right country, of course). While a Fi user will see and recruit Freedom from inside, as a "personal" value (that is actually a primordial value with a personal description). At the same way, Big 5 dutifulness and morality works: A J gets its as a shared value or norm (in the case of morality it is a norm indeed), while Fi type will just be dutiful because it is right. Thats already common in average for Fi types. But in your case that will extend to other traits J traits, and lots of your J traits will come from Fi. And that is weird lol but at the same time super cool.

Enneagram-wise, type 7 in terms of Big 5 and 8 are two types that are highly incompatible with your Big 5 preferences. I also really question the enneagram triad - head, gut and heart - division, because it doesnt match MBTI and neither Big 5. For example, how the hell Ne and Se are cognitive functions related to head? Yet type 7 is full of ESPs and ENPs.

And expanding a little the E/I explanation:

The simple weakness is that there is a complete mismatch between what the i-e inside cognitive functions means (example: The i in Fi) and what the I-E on dichotomy means. The original concept of I-E as draw by Jung is highly different between the MBTI concepts we have today. They got so distant between each other that they dont correlate anymore. In a very basic matter, there are at least 3 definitions of extroversion/introversion over MBTI unofficial internet community, and in short they are these:
1) How sociable and outgoing the people is.
2) If gather "energy" from the "inside" or the "outside".
3) Preferency towards the object - if attention is towards the object (external) then its extroversion, if attention is towards self (inside) then its introversion.
Just a quick example, if you are watching the sunset you are doing an introvert activity in 1 and extroverted activity in 2 and 3. So, its possible to be introverted in one and extroverted in another definition, making the person being a quiet extroverted or sociable introvert.
Jung original is related with 3 (3 is a raw simplification of Jung original concept. The original concept has dozens of pages on a book). Number 3 is E-I concepts in cognitive functions. However, I-E dichotomy is done towards 1 and 2 mostly, they correspond to MBTI I-E concepts in a simple description. So, while summing the extroverted cognitive functions and then subtracting the introverted cognitive functions, a I-E in Jung sense is measured, while the I-E in dichotomy tests corresponds to MBTI I-E that has a different meaning."

You are basically an Extrovert in 1 and Introvert in definition 3. Many people like to type using cognitive functions, so they might use the expression "sociable introvert", which appears to be inconsistent, but actually means that you are introverted in concept 3 and extroverted in concept 2. Or they might refer as "Introverted in the functions but extroverted in MBTI [dichotomy]", which is the same thing. Things like that are common in fictional types and some real life types as well. Just for a random example (although in the opposite direction when compared to you), although I dont remember which character (oh, I remember, and I agreed, its the Japanese Girl from Gorillaz band) that doesnt speak a single word yet is receives a Extraverted type as votes.

Boderlines are relatively common and I think N/S is a natural borderline for you. However, supposing that high level of Si is stable through time, I would pick sensor rather than intuitive.

 

[Red Memories]

Now that I had some time after my post I realize one thing.
If we simply cut MBTI and cognitive functions out of your type (and forget Neuroticism for a while), then there is nothing too mixed on you. Using Enneagram and Big 5 only (forgetting the cognitive functions and MBTI), you are simply a type 1, slightly extraverted, with slightly higher than average agreeableness, high conscientiousness, and with a slightly higher than average Openness to Experience. And it goes as simple as that. Big 5 will be slightly kinder than usual (just doing a PS, Big 5 is super kind with ENFJ and super harsh with ISTP).: So my friend's joke about me being an E1 meme is correct? but yes.

As [MENTION=22236]OldFolksBoogie[/MENTION] explained me once, Judging and Perceiving on MBTI is based on the highest extraverted cognitive function (for types in an average, general and more stereotypical way). So, for example, ISTJ have Si (which is a perceiving function in Jung; Perceptive functions in Jung are Se,Si,Ne and Ni, while Judging cognitive functions are Te,Ti,Fe and Fi) and Te, that is a judging function. Since Te is the highest extraverted cognitive function on ISTJ type, then ISTJ will go as a J. INFP for example have Fi, which is a judging function, but the highest extraverted function is Ne, so INFP goes as a perceiver in Myers J/P frame. Because in Jung's frame, you might not know it but in Jung's frame (and socionics follow that) INFP is a judger and ISTJ is a perceiver.: Wow, that is amazing to think about actually because I did not know that but it would make sense. XD

With that on mind, the Judging traits are more or less seen in terms of Fe and Te (while perceiving traits are more or less seen in terms of Ne and Se). Most of time, at least. If you pick up a image of dichotomy J/P, you got something like this:
So, for example, you see things such as Openness (Openness to Experience, that screams Ne), options (possibilities, its Ne again), spontaneous (people who are spontaneous decide things on the present moment, which screams Se) and etc... In the other side, closure (ok, thats more like E/I trait but whatever I think I misunderstood it), decision (being decisive - Ok perhaps thats Ni), scheduled (thats pretty much Te), organized (in definition, its Te or Fe), plan (Te goals aspects), control (Te trait), now (just means "dutiful", perhaps?).
So, its pretty much Fe and Te, which are Extraverted Judgment. Extraverted Judgment is related to social norms - in Jung Fe description and most post-Jung Fe description that is very presented, but thats also an aspect of Te (even if Jung doesnt make much attention for it, post-Jung stuff will). It is related to social standards and social stuff, it is related to judgments of societys.
So, basically most J types, except INTJ and INFJ a tiny little and some enneagram J combos, will have their J motivated by something related to external standards. They will want people to look them as organized. They will make decisions based a lot on standards sets externally, either by Te or Fe. Their schedule is related to something like that. Their control might be related at measures being done in a Te fashion, or in a "Feeling-control" scheme.
But you shouldnt be relating much to this, not really (just some). Thats how different your J are from the rest of people. Although you do have some Fe and Te, your J is motivated by something related to Si (cognitive functions can be used in a different way and enneagram can give a light on that; For example, Te used in a INTJ 5 is different from Te used in a ENTJ 8; In your case Si is likely used in a Enneagram 1 way, a moralistic SJ component used by ISTJ/ISFJ/ESTJ 1s basically and likely a dead component for ESTJ and ESFJ in other enneagrams, like ESTJ 8) and a part of it should come from Fi (although some people might think Im making a conceptual mistake here since no J MBTI should come from Fi but thats not entirely true). You are not mainly motivated to do J stuff by external components, but rather by internal components. For example, a regular J might think: "What others will think of me if they see this mess? No way! It needs to be organized", while you would simply needs to be organized because you will feel, in a gut or emotional or both way, that you need to be organized. A regular J might explain that things needs to be done because somebody do it this way, because thats how its done, something that might evoke some standards. Your line perhaps is... Things needs to be done that way because.. they do? That sometimes give you a perceiving and perhaps loose and carelessness answer while it is not? Im risking a little bit here and sorry if Im wrong, but you know that your case needs plenty of effort to understand, really.: that makes a lot of sense. I organize when I feel I need to organize to cope with my anxiety for instance, but if I see no purpose to be organized I don't organize because...why? what someone won't think I got color coded drawers or some shit? XD I can relate though because usually my efforts take to me, as more of a whim. I "NEED" to do this but I cannot explain why. I have had people ask me so much like "why do I pick that battle" and I can't really explain why I feel I must, I just feel I must. Deep inside, but I cannot explain to someone why I need to do it. I think we're on the right train of thought here exactly.

I think things can be better explained if I explain morality J vs Fi morality. Morality J is more related to Fe and Te... We do have social ethics (or morals, depending on what definition you are using), social shared values (Fe) and Te can also catch some external values as well, although with more difficult. While Fi, instead, will cast these values from inside. So, a Fe user might, for example, be driven by the shared value of Freedom and that people needs to be Free, because thats a general accepted value (if you are in the right country, of course). While a Fi user will see and recruit Freedom from inside, as a "personal" value (that is actually a primordial value with a personal description). At the same way, Big 5 dutifulness and morality works: A J gets its as a shared value or norm (in the case of morality it is a norm indeed), while Fi type will just be dutiful because it is right. Thats already common in average for Fi types. But in your case that will extend to other traits J traits, and lots of your J traits will come from Fi. And that is weird lol but at the same time super cool.: that makes sense. One of the reasons I struggle with the thought of being Fe is because I feel like most of my values come from me personally and my experiences rather than someone else. If I haven't experienced something I likely won't be strong willed about it.

Enneagram-wise, type 7 in terms of Big 5 and 8 are two types that are highly incompatible with your Big 5 preferences. I also really question the enneagram triad - head, gut and heart - division, because it doesnt match MBTI and neither Big 5. For example, how the hell Ne and Se are cognitive functions related to head? Yet type 7 is full of ESPs and ENPs.: that makes sense. I cannot for the life of me properly relate to a head type. Maybe it is because I'm just...not one. XD I definitely think I am a gut type (1, 8, 9).

And expanding a little the E/I explanation:

The simple weakness is that there is a complete mismatch between what the i-e inside cognitive functions means (example: The i in Fi) and what the I-E on dichotomy means. The original concept of I-E as draw by Jung is highly different between the MBTI concepts we have today. They got so distant between each other that they dont correlate anymore. In a very basic matter, there are at least 3 definitions of extroversion/introversion over MBTI unofficial internet community, and in short they are these:
1) How sociable and outgoing the people is.
2) If gather "energy" from the "inside" or the "outside".
3) Preferency towards the object - if attention is towards the object (external) then its extroversion, if attention is towards self (inside) then its introversion.
Just a quick example, if you are watching the sunset you are doing an introvert activity in 1 and extroverted activity in 2 and 3. So, its possible to be introverted in one and extroverted in another definition, making the person being a quiet extroverted or sociable introvert.
Jung original is related with 3 (3 is a raw simplification of Jung original concept. The original concept has dozens of pages on a book). Number 3 is E-I concepts in cognitive functions. However, I-E dichotomy is done towards 1 and 2 mostly, they correspond to MBTI I-E concepts in a simple description. So, while summing the extroverted cognitive functions and then subtracting the introverted cognitive functions, a I-E in Jung sense is measured, while the I-E in dichotomy tests corresponds to MBTI I-E that has a different meaning."
You are basically an Extrovert in 1 and Introvert in definition 3. Many people like to type using cognitive functions, so they might use the expression "sociable introvert", which appears to be inconsistent, but actually means that you are introverted in concept 3 and extroverted in concept 2. Or they might refer as "Introverted in the functions but extroverted in MBTI [dichotomy]", which is the same thing. Things like that are common in fictional types and some real life types as well. Just for a random example (although in the opposite direction when compared to you), although I dont remember which character (oh, I remember, and I agreed, its the Japanese Girl from Gorillaz band) that doesnt speak a single word yet is receives a Extraverted type as votes.: I kinda began noticing that some in my own studies, as I tell people now they should know if you are an "extravert" in MBTI it doesn't mean you are actually a social extravert or introvert. I hadn't read this before though so this gives more clarification to that thought I was drawing. thanks for that!

Boderlines are relatively common and I think N/S is a natural borderline for you. However, supposing that high level of Si is stable through time, I would pick sensor rather than intuitive.: My Si is usually quite stable, and at times I felt like I can relate to the Fi/Si looping.

thank you also for being so informative here.

 

[lunalum]

Okay so first thing first is that from your questionnaires you read very obviously as ENFP. But to look at it a little more critically, these could be confounds:

• Someone presenting with solid F preference and solid Ne preference could be ESFJ, ISFJ, or even ISTJ. ESFJs can have heck of a high Ne usage but the way you present is not what I'd expect of a tertiary user. And definitely not inferior usage. And the nature of the inferior is that it's low in conscious control and so hard to really manipulate. Your answers line up more Fi than Fe but I'm not sure that it's fully differentiated.
• Extraversion in it's nature is often more obvious no matter what order it is in. As a secondary option, you could very well be an INFP with pronounced extraverted tendencies. This would line up with the solid F preference. This is something I speak of with experience and so perhaps a twinge of bias as I have the same thing going on but as an ambiverted INTP. I did type as ENTP for a little while before settling back onto INTP. Still, I would take this as a secondary consideration. Why? Well for one you just read as more extraverted than I am lol.

 

[RadicalDoubt]

I'm really thinking ExFx for you and I'm almost 100% certain you're one the Ne Si axis. Your Ne is not inferior, but I'm finding it difficult to figure out if it's tert or dom and I'm not really getting a clear read on Fe vs Fi (despite a feeling function clearly being high). I've been trying to read through what you've provided here, but am having issues following the bulk paragraphs (not because they are confusing or you write unclearly, but because you don't provide differentiation between question and response and my eyes keep glazing over the whole thing). Sp blindness works, either so/sx or sx/so is fine (I'm bad at placing sx so I leave the distinction to you).

Enneagram wise, 1, or at least 1 fix, seems to work. I'm not really seeing 8 anywhere, your type of anger is very specifically 1. Still, I'm not exactly sure the 174 tritype works for you, and this is more by hunch and vibe rather than actual evidence of any sort. You mention struggling with your head fix, especially having an anxiety disorder (which I totally get; I had the same issue differentiating 6w5 vs 5w6 for myself), but I do think there is a possibility 6(w7) could be present somewhere rather than 7. Again, hunch. 1 and 7 together usually comes with a very distinct style of arrogance/self-righteousness that I don't see from you necessarily, what I've seen so far really just seems to be very superego triad related... So, questions from me:

1) In what ways do you specifically relate to type 1? What do you think you actually derive your sense of right and wrong/your principles?

2) Do you find it easy to differentiate desire and necessity? How do you go about obtaining needs and desires and does going about getting either bother you (why or why not)?

I have more questions, if I ever gather my thoughts I'll add them before/after you answer these (unless you don't want to which is also fine)

 

[Red Memories]

[MENTION=34313]RadicalDoubt[/MENTION] thanks for giving some input, and I'll try to make my answers less glossy LOL.

In what ways do you specifically relate to type 1?: The first thing that got me on a shallow level with type 1 is the perfectionism. E1s are known for having very high expectations of themselves and their behavior, an air of strong diligence and responsibility. On the sad note, this perfectionism is a motion to cause self-hatred and being overly critical of the self to the point of paralysis in finishing things which I have long struggled with my entire life basically. I think the one thing I always struggle with in E1 is the "boiling point" part of the anger. I am very emotionally rash so my anger tends to rise and yell but then diffuse. However the more I know and like the person, the less able I feel to actually tell them off unless it is a point of principle for me. No one is protected from my "mom" moments and I've lost friends trying to tell them if they'd just DO THE THING they could accomplish the thing. XD I read some stuff on how 1s disintegrate into 4 as well and that just...felt like my negative emotional states in a nutshell. I feel like when I read E1 health levels, I am on the lower end of healthy.

What do you think you actually derive your sense of right and wrong/your principles?: I always have a hard time answering this question. XD While I think my natural inclination is to say I derived my morals from my religion, I do not think that is accurate. I think my religion is shaped around what principles I already felt were right or wrong. I think I gain principle from experience, understanding, viewing the whole picture if I can. Like, say, me and my grandfather are both Christian, but my grandfather feels negatively toward gay marriage and I am fine with it. My parents would tell you I derive my principles from the internet but that isn't really true either. I am strongly against recreational marijuana or drug usage, and dislike alcohol even as a social concept because I saw my aunt and grandmother destroy their lives and the lives of other people choosing pills and booze over everything. It is sad when someone's life centers around something like that. I think the death penalty is fair and some of these criminals deserve it. I think we're too lax on rapists. Me and God constantly argue over my frustration over the "things I cannot change." because I think someone needs to. I think I see things, hear things, learn things, and I put it together and decide what I believe is right. I just have issues answering "where" it comes from because I have an environment, but I think a lot differently than my environment. So I know my principles don't come from that, because as early as 11-12 years old I was defying what my parents saw as "principle." I wanted to think for myself, not have people think for me.

Do you find it easy to differentiate desire and necessity?: In a literal sense, yes. Of course I do not in fact need that book, cd, or that new houseplant. I merely want it. Necessities are strictly things like basic food, basic water, a basic shelter. Everything we add outside of "basic" is something of desire, something we simply want, something that makes us more "comfortable". I have many "desires" sitting in my room. I have had to learn to control my "desire" because I do have a habit of impulse buying the 15567534 shiny things I see every time I go out. I am very easily amused and tend to still like small little things. That's why I have so many things. XD I get a lot of bang for my buck...because I don't buy fancy beds or shelves, I buy little plush toys and cheap chokers and stuff. XD

How do you go about obtaining needs and desires and does going about getting either bother you (why or why not)?: When I was working I actually found I was a lot better with my money than I felt I was. I knew my bills every month. I had a really solid budget, even developed a small amount of savings, and even after my basic food and all that I had some money left over to blow. I liked having money though because I think I just do retail therapy. If I don't have money do not take me out. XD I HAVE NO SELF CONTROL. It doesn't really bother me, well it does now because I'm terrified of coronavirus, but before I'd legit spend 2-3 hours window shopping in stores to my delight. Seeing all the things I wanted, even for a brief period, works like motivation to me. XD That sounds awful but hey, lotsa people live for the money to buy things. XD

 

[lunalum]

A couple corrections/additions to my earlier post:

What I meant in respect to ISFJs/ISTJs is that they are at least on Si/Ne axis. Their preference is still clearly Si, but like sometimes you can see Ne usage in them, even if they don't actually see it themselves.

One thing I accidentally left from that type list... Ne/Si axis and can have high F tendencies... and that would be ENTP. So here's the thing here. ENxPs, in general, will present with super high openness. But then there's Fi/Ti. Ti preference comes with it the tendency to be highly attuned to even the most minor inconsistencies, and a need for precision. As I gather from Fi, it is a more holistic reasoning style in a sense and will show more tolerance for contradiction, it's brand of logic is more flexible. So it's like, ENTPs are still very open but definitely that strong critical bent shows up. This can still be the case in ENFPs too due to Te. But when just looking at Ne and Fi, it can be like a double whammy of openness. This is what I've seen from you so far, particularly in the type me threads. So that's where I'm at with you right now but if any of this doesn't ring true for you please let me know.

 

[Red Memories]

A couple corrections/additions to my earlier post:

What I meant in respect to ISFJs/ISTJs is that they are at least on Si/Ne axis. Their preference is still clearly Si, but like sometimes you can see Ne usage in them, even if they don't actually see it themselves.

One thing I accidentally left from that type list... Ne/Si axis and can have high F tendencies... and that would be ENTP. So here's the thing here. ENxPs, in general, will present with super high openness. But then there's Fi/Ti. Ti preference comes with it the tendency to be highly attuned to even the most minor inconsistencies, and a need for precision. As I gather from Fi, it is a more holistic reasoning style in a sense and will show more tolerance for contradiction, it's brand of logic is more flexible. So it's like, ENTPs are still very open but definitely that strong critical bent shows up. This can still be the case in ENFPs too due to Te. But when just looking at Ne and Fi, it can be like a double whammy of openness. This is what I've seen from you so far, particularly in the type me threads. So that's where I'm at with you right now but if any of this doesn't ring true for you please let me know.

ayo thanks for stopping by again

I find ENTPs amusing, occasionally asinine, but usually amusing. If you get past their uncouth nature and occasionally not so nice humor you can see into some solid points from them heh. I have always felt I was possibly ENFP and due to my E1, my Te is higher and therefore I am just a strange rare E1 ENFP.

I was doing a little deeper into "openness" and here's how I'd rate my different facets of big 5 openness

1. Openness to experiences: I am very open to trying things. There are very specific things I will not try because logic, and living vicariously through someone else's bodily experience, tells me that is fucking dumb and you're gonna get hurt if you do that. Usually end up being correct as well. But otherwise, hey wanna get taco bell at 2 am, sure. Hey, I think this program will work better. Let me try it first. XD

2. Openness to values: Depends your value...strongly...depends your value...I think this is where my openness begins receding. It isn't so much I will not accept said values, but if your values conflict too much with my values, I will find it wiser that we not associate. I may talk to you but not consider you a close friend. I try not to impose my values on people too much, but there are times I think people should think about things and I try to reason to them why something is problematic. I do not like it when people name call and judge someone for having a different value rather than trying reason. If all you can do is call me a bitch for saying I think you're wrong, then you're projecting.

3. Openness to ideas: I LOVE IDEAS. I play with them all day. Sometimes I never actually perform any of them! BUT I HAVE LOADS OF THEM!

also little thing: what do you consider a "contradiction"? Are you referring to how I pick up very quickly when someone tells me one thing then a month later suggests another and I can say "but you said this 1 month ago"?

also [MENTION=32874]Vendrah[/MENTION] cuz you both be discussing big 5 with me.

 

[Vendrah]

ayo thanks for stopping by again

I find ENTPs amusing, occasionally asinine, but usually amusing. If you get past their uncouth nature and occasionally not so nice humor you can see into some solid points from them heh. I have always felt I was possibly ENFP and due to my E1, my Te is higher and therefore I am just a strange rare E1 ENFP.

I was doing a little deeper into "openness" and here's how I'd rate my different facets of big 5 openness

1. Openness to experiences: I am very open to trying things. There are very specific things I will not try because logic, and living vicariously through someone else's bodily experience, tells me that is fucking dumb and you're gonna get hurt if you do that. Usually end up being correct as well. But otherwise, hey wanna get taco bell at 2 am, sure. Hey, I think this program will work better. Let me try it first. XD

2. Openness to values: Depends your value...strongly...depends your value...I think this is where my openness begins receding. It isn't so much I will not accept said values, but if your values conflict too much with my values, I will find it wiser that we not associate. I may talk to you but not consider you a close friend. I try not to impose my values on people too much, but there are times I think people should think about things and I try to reason to them why something is problematic. I do not like it when people name call and judge someone for having a different value rather than trying reason. If all you can do is call me a bitch for saying I think you're wrong, then you're projecting.

3. Openness to ideas: I LOVE IDEAS. I play with them all day. Sometimes I never actually perform any of them! BUT I HAVE LOADS OF THEM!

also little thing: what do you consider a "contradiction"? Are you referring to how I pick up very quickly when someone tells me one thing then a month later suggests another and I can say "but you said this 1 month ago"?

also [MENTION=32874]Vendrah[/MENTION] cuz you both be discussing big 5 with me.

I dont have much idea where these facets come from, did you just came up with them?
The common big 5 Openness facets arent these.

It is good to take note that I did long explanations about how you probably (and you confirmed that) goes out as introvert in cognitive functions test and extrovert in dichotomies test, and why I would consider you a social introvert. Of course, due to neuroticism, there is some chance that you are very highly extrovert and Neuroticism dropped your extraversion.

And, although I didnt made it that clear, I also stated that you should get always a J in dichotomy and P or J alternated into cognitive functions test and I explained how your Fi is towards MBTI J. Just a superficial resume, it is as if your personal values aligns with MBTI Judging preferences.

So, I see you as basically a IXFP or IXFJ (with preference for Fi over Fe) type in terms of cognitive functions and when cognitive functions are framed, whereas I see you as a EXFJ type when dichotomy is framed. Although that might be seem as incredibly inconsistent, it is consistent as I explained in a quite long way and as your results towards Big 5, dichotomy and dichotomy are consistent (we do not have absurd inconsistencies such having a huge preference for feeling and scoring low emotionality on Big 5 facet emotion).

Basically, yeah, you could mix IXFP (from cognitive functions) with EXFJ (from dichotomy), pick intuition, and arrive as ENFP. You would be using sociability for extroversion and Fi for FP, and you would be ignoring the concepts of J and P in dichotomy. But you do have way too much Si for ENFP. However, looking at INTJ 1 (S:3) vs INTJ (S:30) comparison, it seems that 1 morality comes mostly from Si (INTJ 1 vs regular INTJ have a significant Si increase), and an ENFP 1 would need a reasonably strong Si. By data I arrived that ISFJ skipping Fe would be the best mix (since even in cognitive functions it arrives as the closest type) (I generally ignore "looping" theories), but I dont think any other mixes are particularly wrong.

However, I dont know how much Fi Judging values can helps boosting neuroticism.

 

[Red Memories]

I dont have much idea where these facets come from, did you just came up with them?
The common big 5 Openness facets arent these.

It is good to take note that I did long explanations about how you probably (and you confirmed that) goes out as introvert in cognitive functions test and extrovert in dichotomies test, and why I would consider you a social introvert. Of course, due to neuroticism, there is some chance that you are very highly extrovert and Neuroticism dropped your extraversion.

And, although I didnt made it that clear, I also stated that you should get always a J in dichotomy and P or J alternated into cognitive functions test and I explained how your Fi is towards MBTI J. Just a superficial resume, it is as if your personal values aligns with MBTI Judging preferences.

So, I see you as basically a IXFP or IXFJ (with preference for Fi over Fe) type in terms of cognitive functions and when cognitive functions are framed, whereas I see you as a EXFJ type when dichotomy is framed. Although that might be seem as incredibly inconsistent, it is consistent as I explained in a quite long way and as your results towards Big 5, dichotomy and dichotomy are consistent (we do not have absurd inconsistencies such having a huge preference for feeling and scoring low emotionality on Big 5 facet emotion).

Basically, yeah, you could mix IXFP (from cognitive functions) with EXFJ (from dichotomy), pick intuition, and arrive as ENFP. You would be using sociability for extroversion and Fi for FP, and you would be ignoring the concepts of J and P in dichotomy. But you do have way too much Si for ENFP. However, looking at INTJ 1 (S:3) vs INTJ (S:30) comparison, it seems that 1 morality comes mostly from Si (INTJ 1 vs regular INTJ have a significant Si increase), and an ENFP 1 would need a reasonably strong Si. By data I arrived that ISFJ skipping Fe would be the best mix (since even in cognitive functions it arrives as the closest type) (I generally ignore "looping" theories), but I dont think any other mixes are particularly wrong.

However, I dont know how much Fi Judging values can helps boosting neuroticism.

just some psychology pages that discussed different layers of what makes openness "openness" XD could be adjustments in 'Merica or somethin.

Very well. Perhaps it is time to accept my destiny as an NFJ who uses Fi as well. Thank you for your input again.

 

[Vendrah]

just some psychology pages that discussed different layers of what makes openness "openness" XD could be adjustments in 'Merica or somethin.

Very well. Perhaps it is time to accept my destiny as an NFJ who uses Fi as well. Thank you for your input again.

I had forgot the cognitive function distance that I had draw.
ENFJ with Fi over Fe might be a good fit too. In cognitive functions distance, the closest N type seems to be ENFJ (although if I were to use other methods I would arrive with INFJ on Open Stack or INFP on Sum Typing). In dichotomy you do get ENFJ as well.

Its also interesting to note the S,N,T,F and E vs I & J vs P scheme. It can help understand and map your own mix.
In F, its Fi over Fe, which means, by approximation, that in feeling you have a IP approach over EJ.
In T, its Te over Ti, which means, by approximation, that in thinking you have EJ over IP approach.
In N, its Ne and Ni are basically draw.
In S, its Si over Se, which means, by approximation, that in sensing you have a IJ over EP approach.

Talking about sum typing, there is my own MBTI test I made about 2 months ago, cool one, I think your result is unpredictable (INFP or ENFP are my best guesses):
https://www.quotev.com/quiz/12501474/Sum-Typing-MBTI-Test-with-cognitive-functions

There is one other thing to be talk at... I dont consider all Conscientiousness stuff to be positive.
There are some bad stuff about Conscientiousness and all that Conscientiousness propaganda that has been in the world even before big 5.
Just from wikipedia:
"A study from 2004 found conscientiousness was significantly negatively correlated with intelligence. Conscientiousness significantly correlated negatively with abstract reasoning (−0.26) and verbal reasoning (−0.23).[35]

Large unselected studies, however, have found null relationships,[36] and the negative relationship sometimes found in selected samples such as universities may result from students whose low ability would reduce their chance of gaining entrance, but who have higher conscientiousness, gaining their GPA via hard work rather than giftedness.[37]

A large study found that fluid intelligence was significantly negatively correlated with the order (−0.15), self-discipline (−0.08), and deliberation (−0.09) subfactors of conscientiousness (all correlations significant with p < 0.001.)"

"Conscientiousness has a weak positive relationship with conservative political attitudes.[39] Conscientiousness significantly correlates positively with right-wing authoritarianism. Although right-wing authoritarianism is one of the most powerful predictors of prejudice, a large scale meta-analysis found that conscientiousness itself is uncorrelated with general prejudice.[40][41] Conscientiousness is positively correlated with support for capital punishment.[42] Rebellion against control is significantly negatively correlated with conscientiousness.[43]

In a Milgram experiment conscientiousness and agreeableness were associated with willingness to administer high-intensity electric shocks to a victim.[44]

Conscientiousness is associated with rule compliance, obedience and conventional integrity.[45]

Conscientiousness also correlates with the moral foundations related to conservatism. (Ingroup-Loyalty (.25), Authority-Respect(.29), Purity-Sanctity(.27))[46]

Conscientiousness predicted more conservative and authoritarian views, which in turn predicted an increased likelihood of opposition to affirmative action programs, opposition to increased welfare spending and support of capital punishment."

"The orderliness/dependability subfactors (order, dutifulness, and deliberation) of conscientiousness correlate negatively with creativity while the industriousness/achievement subfactors correlate positively.[48] Another study showed that people who score high on the order subfactor of conscientiousness show less innovative behavior.[49] Group conscientiousness has a negative effect on group performance during creative tasks.[50] Groups with only conscientious members have difficulty solving open-ended problems."

"A study from 2006 found that those scoring low on conscientiousness make better decisions after unanticipated changes in the context of a task. Specifically, the subfactors order, dutifulness, and deliberation negatively correlated with decision-making quality, but not competence, achievement striving, and self-discipline."

And perhaps the toughest truth (but it has been varying in some studies - some arrived with a negative correlation and some others a non-correlation, and none of them actually did the correlation I had to do it on my own):

"Research comparing countries on personality traits has largely found that countries with high average levels of conscientiousness tend to be poorer, less democratic, and to have lower life expectancy compared to their less conscientious counterparts.[dubious – discuss] Less conscientious nations had higher rates of atheism and of alcohol consumption. As discussed earlier, at the individual level, conscientiousness is associated with valuing security, conformity and tradition. Adherence to such values might be more adaptive under harsh living circumstances than more comfortable and prosperous ones."

What I put in, it is simply a reply of someone just running for conscientiousness defence. I didnt wrote anything at all in Wikipedia, I am quite impressed because I thought that I was the only one to know, but it seems that Big 5 ethic code allows that kind of discussion in public (MBTI just dont).
They already made in studies that adaptive argument for intelligence and it was proved to be wrong.

I do have read stuff plus gathering a few stuff myself about this subject. Generally, it is better in nation-wide either J/P and Conscientiousness to be in the middle. I do think that for personal growth, neither too much P or too much J/Conscientiousness is healthy, although capitalism might pay off people o J/Conscientiousness better.

The facet orderliness is the most negative conscientiousness facet. It has relations with fascism, it is the worst facet in terms of intelligence loss and also one of the worst ones for countries as well (for GDP and corruption). To be honest, Im glad Fi doesnt usually value that.

In the other side, I do see self-efficacy as one of the best one of conscientiousness facet. It seems to be not at all much offensive to intelligence, it is completely ok for countries (doesnt make them less or more developed, as far as I checked). That one is a desirable trait. For myself, I see self-efficacy and not low self-discipline as positive traits of conscientiousness. Achievement striving look ok in data and studies, although I always fear that achievement can call Greed, but I think that having it not low sems to be positive as well. It is good to remember that FPs, in average, have high dutifulness.

I made this long observation because perhaps I may had sound overly positive into Fi incorporating J traits. Some Conscientiousness traits are quite undesirable, where some others are quite desirable.

There is one other thing I can help: I did check right now, in country level, which Neuroticism items have relations with Conscientiousness items. Thats in a country level - comparing countries, not individuals. It seems that dutifulness helps reducing Anxiety (or, to be more precise, countries with more dutifulness in general are less anxious), Cautiousness seems help reducing anger while self-efficacy seems to increase it, Cautiousness seems to very strongly reduce immoderation (and order seems to reduce ) and dutifulness can also aid reducing vulnerability. Basically, at least in country level view, it seems that Conscientiousness dont seem to cause any neuroticism items.

 

[RadicalDoubt]

Sorry it took me a bit to respond, most of these questions was to try to see if a) there was any 6 anywhere and b) 6 vs 7. Admittedly I didn't get a clear read, your 1 does really take over.

[MENTION=34313]RadicalDoubt[/MENTION] thanks for giving some input, and I'll try to make my answers less glossy LOL.

In what ways do you specifically relate to type 1?: The first thing that got me on a shallow level with type 1 is the perfectionism. E1s are known for having very high expectations of themselves and their behavior, an air of strong diligence and responsibility. On the sad note, this perfectionism is a motion to cause self-hatred and being overly critical of the self to the point of paralysis in finishing things which I have long struggled with my entire life basically. I think the one thing I always struggle with in E1 is the "boiling point" part of the anger. I am very emotionally rash so my anger tends to rise and yell but then diffuse. However the more I know and like the person, the less able I feel to actually tell them off unless it is a point of principle for me. No one is protected from my "mom" moments and I've lost friends trying to tell them if they'd just DO THE THING they could accomplish the thing. XD I read some stuff on how 1s disintegrate into 4 as well and that just...felt like my negative emotional states in a nutshell. I feel like when I read E1 health levels, I am on the lower end of healthy.

What you describe in bold actually seems more related to anxiety disorders as you've mentioned more than 1, but this is all very consistent with 1 in general, which is cool. I was just making sure 6 and 4 weren't before the 1 just in case, since those are also other things I "vibe" from you.

What do you think you actually derive your sense of right and wrong/your principles?: I always have a hard time answering this question. XD While I think my natural inclination is to say I derived my morals from my religion, I do not think that is accurate. I think my religion is shaped around what principles I already felt were right or wrong. I think I gain principle from experience, understanding, viewing the whole picture if I can. Like, say, me and my grandfather are both Christian, but my grandfather feels negatively toward gay marriage and I am fine with it. My parents would tell you I derive my principles from the internet but that isn't really true either. I am strongly against recreational marijuana or drug usage, and dislike alcohol even as a social concept because I saw my aunt and grandmother destroy their lives and the lives of other people choosing pills and booze over everything. It is sad when someone's life centers around something like that. I think the death penalty is fair and some of these criminals deserve it. I think we're too lax on rapists. Me and God constantly argue over my frustration over the "things I cannot change." because I think someone needs to. I think I see things, hear things, learn things, and I put it together and decide what I believe is right. I just have issues answering "where" it comes from because I have an environment, but I think a lot differently than my environment. So I know my principles don't come from that, because as early as 11-12 years old I was defying what my parents saw as "principle." I wanted to think for myself, not have people think for me.

I really thought I was going to get more 6 out of this but this is so incredibly 1 lol, especially the directional aspect of this. Stylistically, you seem to be pretty anecdotal in your "speaking" style, which cognitive function wise tends to be pretty consistent with the Si-Ne axis in general. Outside of the clear 1 and the clear Ne-Si/Si-Ne, I don't really get much else out of this. For someone who clearly has high feeling, it's weird how difficult your judging axis is to gauge just as a comment.

Do you find it easy to differentiate desire and necessity?: In a literal sense, yes. Of course I do not in fact need that book, cd, or that new houseplant. I merely want it. Necessities are strictly things like basic food, basic water, a basic shelter. Everything we add outside of "basic" is something of desire, something we simply want, something that makes us more "comfortable". I have many "desires" sitting in my room. I have had to learn to control my "desire" because I do have a habit of impulse buying the 15567534 shiny things I see every time I go out. I am very easily amused and tend to still like small little things. That's why I have so many things. XD I get a lot of bang for my buck...because I don't buy fancy beds or shelves, I buy little plush toys and cheap chokers and stuff. XD

How do you go about obtaining needs and desires and does going about getting either bother you (why or why not)?: When I was working I actually found I was a lot better with my money than I felt I was. I knew my bills every month. I had a really solid budget, even developed a small amount of savings, and even after my basic food and all that I had some money left over to blow. I liked having money though because I think I just do retail therapy. If I don't have money do not take me out. XD I HAVE NO SELF CONTROL. It doesn't really bother me, well it does now because I'm terrified of coronavirus, but before I'd legit spend 2-3 hours window shopping in stores to my delight. Seeing all the things I wanted, even for a brief period, works like motivation to me. XD That sounds awful but hey, lotsa people live for the money to buy things. XD

Ehhh maybe I was wrong with the 6 vibe, this seems to be more consistent with 7w6 than 6w7 in terms of what I understand about the compliant triad. Even sp blind, a 16x combo would have more issue with desire and need acquisition, with sp blind 16x deferring more towards "I don't know my limits and will over provide and "mom" towards others at unknown detriment to myself" side of sp blind i'd think... Perhaps I'm slightly biased with vibe towards understanding 174 combos based upon soc blind 174 and 7w8 fixed 174, sorry about that. Enneagram wise, 1w2 7w6 4w(probably 3) seems to work fine, maybe we could play around with the possibility of a 2 fix since you mentioned considering it at some point, but I don't really question the 4 fix though. Anyways, you were really aiming to get mbti out of this more than ennea combination I'd assume, correct?

I'm really thinking ENFP might work a bit better than ESFJ. In terms of cf ordering, if you had Fe and were a Fe dom, I think your Fe would be considerably more obvious and I'm really not seeing that at all. [MENTION=5857]lunalum[/MENTION] made a pretty good point early on about your openness, and you do seem to present with a pretty pronounced P preference. I played around with ESFJ purely because ESFJ sp blinds tend to come across to me as having a false preference for P over traditional J in terms of dichotomy traits which I don't think is the case here. I could see INFP with heightened "extrovert" traits due to the presence of 7. You testing high on Si could also be due to being a 1 core (since 1 core isn't exactly common for either ENFP or INFP realistically) and maybe Fi? Sometimes, the more reflective and past conscious, "sentimental" aspects of Fi and low Si are attributed to high Si test wise so idk. ENFP seems fine.

 

[Vendrah]

[MENTION=33903]Jazzy Orchid[/MENTION] I made a mistake on the formulas =P but the results for you dont change much into the distance between types. And on Big 5 distances, well, its too laborious so Im going to left it for another day.

 

[Vendrah]

[MENTION=33903]Jazzy Orchid[/MENTION]
I took the opportunity to take a old test result of yours since doing this distances is easy (writing and posting about them takes 3-5x more time than doing them). This one from 2017:
https://www.typologycentral.com/for...o-nardis-48-question-test-63.html#post2885479

It order as:
1 - INFP - 22.6
2 - ISFJ - 24.2
3 - ESFJ - 24.7
4 - INFJ - 26.2
5 - ENFJ - 27.5
6 - ENFP - 28
7 - ISFP - 28.5

Enneagram and types:
1 - INFP 9 - 15.5
2 - INFJ 6 - 20
3 - INFP 5 - 21
4 - INFP 4 - 22.2
5 - INFJ 1 - 23.6
6 - INFJ 4 - 28
7 - INFJ 9 - 31
8 - ENFP 9 - 33.1
9 - ENFP 7 - 35.3

I think if there was a INFP 1 option on cognitive function you would take it. As I said, you are IXFP on cognitive functions indeed.
But yeah, as I explained long, in dichotomy you turn ENFJ =P.
So INFJ 1 is a good choice too.

 

[Red Memories]

[MENTION=32874]Vendrah[/MENTION] thank you. I'll possibly do the test again as well just to see if my neuroticism changed my results any. You've been super helpful. <3

 

[Red Memories]

Sorry it took me a bit to respond, most of these questions was to try to see if a) there was any 6 anywhere and b) 6 vs 7. Admittedly I didn't get a clear read, your 1 does really take over.
What you describe in bold actually seems more related to anxiety disorders as you've mentioned more than 1, but this is all very consistent with 1 in general, which is cool. I was just making sure 6 and 4 weren't before the 1 just in case, since those are also other things I "vibe" from you.


I really thought I was going to get more 6 out of this but this is so incredibly 1 lol, especially the directional aspect of this. Stylistically, you seem to be pretty anecdotal in your "speaking" style, which cognitive function wise tends to be pretty consistent with the Si-Ne axis in general. Outside of the clear 1 and the clear Ne-Si/Si-Ne, I don't really get much else out of this. For someone who clearly has high feeling, it's weird how difficult your judging axis is to gauge just as a comment.

Ehhh maybe I was wrong with the 6 vibe, this seems to be more consistent with 7w6 than 6w7 in terms of what I understand about the compliant triad. Even sp blind, a 16x combo would have more issue with desire and need acquisition, with sp blind 16x deferring more towards "I don't know my limits and will over provide and "mom" towards others at unknown detriment to myself" side of sp blind i'd think... Perhaps I'm slightly biased with vibe towards understanding 174 combos based upon soc blind 174 and 7w8 fixed 174, sorry about that. Enneagram wise, 1w2 7w6 4w(probably 3) seems to work fine, maybe we could play around with the possibility of a 2 fix since you mentioned considering it at some point, but I don't really question the 4 fix though. Anyways, you were really aiming to get mbti out of this more than ennea combination I'd assume, correct?

I'm really thinking ENFP might work a bit better than ESFJ. In terms of cf ordering, if you had Fe and were a Fe dom, I think your Fe would be considerably more obvious and I'm really not seeing that at all. [MENTION=5857]lunalum[/MENTION] made a pretty good point early on about your openness, and you do seem to present with a pretty pronounced P preference. I played around with ESFJ purely because ESFJ sp blinds tend to come across to me as having a false preference for P over traditional J in terms of dichotomy traits which I don't think is the case here. I could see INFP with heightened "extrovert" traits due to the presence of 7. You testing high on Si could also be due to being a 1 core (since 1 core isn't exactly common for either ENFP or INFP realistically) and maybe Fi? Sometimes, the more reflective and past conscious, "sentimental" aspects of Fi and low Si are attributed to high Si test wise so idk. ENFP seems fine.

if you have strong ennea opinions I'm down. I am really looking into a full typing. I mean if some randomer wants to come explain my socionics type I'll take that too LOL.

Yeah I know my 1 can be pretty overbearing. I actually typed as 6w7 previously because many 7 descriptions focus on Se 7 styles and it made it somewhat unrelatable to me. I've never been the life of a party...unless that party is 1 other person and we're jokingly throwing cottonballs at each other. that's as "party" as I get. XD

 

[Vendrah]

[MENTION=32874]Vendrah[/MENTION] the big 5 results

Extraversion
Extraversion - 54th percentile - about average
You are about average in extraversion. Extraverts are sociable, like to take risks,and feel lots of positive emotions. The six facets of extraversion are:
Activity - 85th percentile - very high
You prefer very high levels of activity, such as being on the go and staying busy.
Assertiveness - 63rd percentile - high
There're high chances that you'll take charge and lead others.
Cheerfulness - 23rd percentile - very low
You experience very low levels of happiness, joy, and other positive emotions.
Excitement Seeking - 19th percentile - very low
You like to seek very low levels of thrills.
Friendliness - 71st percentile - high
You're high in your desire to be around other people and show an interest in their lives.
Gregariousness - 59th percentile - about average
You're about average in flocking toward other people and being talkative and sociable around them.

Agreeableness
Agreeableness - 62nd percentile - high
You are high in agreeableness. Highly agreeable people tend to do whatever it takes to have positive relationships with other people. The six facets of agreeableness are:
Altruism - 76th percentile - very high
You are very high in generally wanting to be good to other people, including helping them when they need it.
Cooperation - 15th percentile - very low
There are very low chances that you'll try to get along with other people.
Modesty - 84th percentile - very high
You have very high levels of modesty. Modest people don't like to brag or show off, because those types of behaviors can be harmful to relationships.
Morality - 89th percentile - very high
Sticking to the rules and treating everyone fairly is of very high value to you.
Sympathy - 83rd percentile - very high
You have very high levels of sympathy for other people, which includes caring about them and wanting what's best for them.
Trust - 8th percentile - extremely low
You're extremely low in believing that other people are generally good and not out to harm you.

Conscientiousness
Conscientiousness - 78th percentile - very high
You are very high in conscientiousness. Highly conscientious people are diligent, hard-working, and responsible. The six facets of conscientiousness are:
Achievement Striving - 94th percentile - extremely high
You have extremely high desires to work hard and get ahead.
Cautiousness - 9th percentile - extremely low
The odds are extremely high that you'll just jump into things without really thinking them through. You spend extremely low amounts of time planning what to do.
Dutifulness - 96th percentile - extremely high
You're extremely high in sticking to your word, keeping your promises, and upholding your obligations.
Orderliness - 86th percentile - very high
You prefer very high levels of cleanliness and order in your environment.
Self-Discipline - 70th percentile - high
You have high self-discipline—which is the ability to get to work quickly, stay focused, and avoid distractions or procrastination.
Self-Efficacy - 55th percentile - about average
When you need to do something, you have about average ability to get it done and do it well (or maybe more accurately, you believe that your ability is about average).

Neuroticism
Neuroticism - 100th percentile - extremely high
You are extremely high in neuroticism, which means that you experience extremely high levels of negative emotions, like anger, fear, and stress. The six facets of neuroticism are:
Anger - 100th percentile - extremely high
Your levels of anger and irritability are extremely high.
Anxiety - 99th percentile - extremely high
Compared with other people, you have extremely high stress, fears, and worries about the future.
Depression - 98th percentile - extremely high
This is NOT "clinical depression." This score simply tells you that, compared with other people, you feel extremely high amounts of sadness and like yourself to a extremely low degree.
Immoderation - 97th percentile - extremely high
You have extremely low self-control when it comes to resisting temptations; there are extremely high chances that you'll give into your desires and binge (on shopping, eating, drinking, or whatever your vices are).

Note that self-discipline (a facet of conscientiousness) deals with your ability to focus your attention on accomplishing goals, whereas immoderation refers to your ability to resist temptations.
Self-Consciousness - 81st percentile - very high
You like to draw very low levels of attention to yourself, and feel very high amounts of unease when interacting with others socially (especially strangers).
Vulnerability - 99th percentile - extremely high
The chances that you'll be overwhelmed by difficult circumstances are extremely high. Notice that this is different from anxiety (which refers to general stress- and fear-proneness) and self-efficacy (a facet of conscientiousness that reflects your confidence in your ability to accomplish tasks). Vulnerability specifically refers to your propensity to feel overwhelmed by difficult situations.

Openness to Experience
Openness to Experience - 60th percentile - about average
You are about average in openness to experience. Openness is a broad, diffuse personality dimension with many seemingly very different facets. In general, highly open people like a variety of new experiences, whether physical, emotional, intellectual, or cultural. The six facets of openness are:
Adventurousness - 18th percentile - very low
Your prefer very low amounts of variety and new experiences in your life (i.e., you have very low openness to new experiences).
Artistic Interests - 86th percentile - very high
You have very high love for art, music, and culture (i.e., you have very high openness to aesthetic experiences).
Emotionality - 98th percentile - extremely high
Your attunement to your own and others' emotions is extremely high. Whereas cheerfulness and excitement seeking (facets of extraversion) capture your propensity to feel positive emotions and neuroticism captures your propensity to feel negative emotions, emotionality refers to your overall openness to/desire to truly feel emotions.
Imagination - 89th percentile - very high
You have very high imagination (i.e., you have very high openness to experiences of the imagination).
Intellect - 36th percentile - low
Your desire to play with ideas, reflect on philosophical concepts, and have deep discussions is low (i.e., you have low openness to intellectual experiences).

-I dismissed the political end piece because I voted neutral on those because its BS that politics has anything to do with it imo lol.

Hey,

Sorry to resurrect an old thread.

Its just that I had paid attention to a new thing - IPIP 40 types, which is basically 40 types based on your two most "extreme" Big 5 dichotomies. It is not equalized as MBTI, there are better or worse types, generally a High-High for them is better and Low-Low is worse. In my own opinion, although, it should be more equalized.
These are not permanent. Leaving Neuroticism is usually a desire.

Anyway, the closest 40 type to you is this one:

FUSSY TYPES (High C, Low S)
Fussy Types are perfectionists who crave structure and order but who never seem to be able to achieve the order and predictability they desire. Their own emotional instability fosters a self-defeating pattern. They are described by others with terms such as particular, well-read, shy, and introverted.

Although you should consider these:
SENSITIVE TYPE (Low S, High O)
Sensitive types are very bright but emotionally sensitive. They pay attention to, and are strongly affected by, things that happen in the world around them. They open themselves to their environment; consequently they enjoy many positive sensory experiences, but on the other hand they are vulnerable to having their feelings hurt. They are described by others as complex and imaginative.
[this one I relate a lot to it]

EMOTIONAL TYPE (High A, Low S)
Emotional Types--whether male or female--are stereotypically feminine. They are in touch with both positive and negative feelings. Others describe them with terms such as sentimental, affectionate, sensitive, soft, passionate, romantic, feminine, emotional, and gullible.

In a healthier and optimistic way, this one (ignoring Neuroticism):
COMPROMISING TYPE (High A, High C)
Compromising Types are oriented toward getting along with others. Valuing interpersonal harmony, they are more likely to compromise than confront in a difficult situation. They are described by other people as cooperative, persevering, composed, trustworthy, empathic, agreeable, traditional, simple, old-fashioned, predictable, down-to- earth, and preserving.

 

[Red Memories]

[MENTION=40834]MovinOut[/MENTION] [MENTION=35920]Earl Grey[/MENTION]

hi I'm a psycho tagging you in my old type thread XD because you're both smart and I want your opinions woops xD

 

[Red Memories]

[MENTION=34313]RadicalDoubt[/MENTION]

have fun XD