Questioning if I'm Ti/Fe or Fi/Te?

[Chase123]

I'm kind of just double checking. I've typed myself as an ESTP, and I doubt I'm a Introverted Feeler, but I could be proven wrong. Cognitive function tests always rate Fe and Ti higher for me, but I'm curious if there's a real life scenario question that could help me know for sure. I read somewhere that ESFP's quite often wonder if they are ESTP's and not the other way, so I'm curious.

 

[Red Memories]

*this is my mini reminder to come back with a very informative post on outlining some of this*

 

[typologyenthusiast]

You should tell us more about yourself.

 

[Chase123]

You should tell us more about yourself.

1. Click on this link: Flickr: Explore! Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it.
This is the picture that I found: At Home.Afternoon. | Elena Shumilova | Flickr
These are my initial perceptions of the image: I love all the colors and textures of the picture. The lighting is amazing. I love how the light of the window is peering from the back. I like how the light reflects onto the plant and I like how you can see trickles of light on the water. I like how there are shadowy shades around the edge of the pic. I don't see a way this picture could be improved, I think the way it is set up shows beauty, and therefore it fulfilled its purpose.
Also, what is the kid doing? Why does the kid look sad? Is the kid sad? Why is the kid holding that necklace thing? Is the kid feeling abandoned and alone? Rejected? Bored? Is this picture representing emotions or something else? The picture makes me question the motives, and it also makes me curious how the photographer set everything up.
The cat’s an interesting part of the picture, I’m not sure what the cat’s purpose is, but it seems to be displaying an ordinary household.

2. You are with a group of people in a car, heading to a different town to see your favourite band/artist/musician. Suddenly, the car breaks down for an unknown reason in the middle of nowhere. What are your initial thoughts? What are your outward reactions?
I'm not someone who's a planner nor am I someone who gets disappointed easily. Once the car is on the side of the road, I'll immediately be thinking of a solution. What's the problem with the car? How do we fix it it? What's everyone's emotional reaction? I'd be taking things moment by moment, so I wouldn't be worried about what we'd do if the car doesn't work but if that came to be I'd figure out games we could play to compensate. I guess my reaction would be: How to fix the problem, and how everyone is, if we're stuck, we'll go with the flow and find some sort of enjoyment even if it seems our initial plan didn't work.

3. You somehow make it to the concert. The driver wants to go to the afterparty that was announced (and assure you they won't drink so they can drive back later). How do you feel about this party? What do you do?
I'm always up for social interaction, so I'd probably keep an eye on the driver and everyone at the party to make sure everyone is okay and we could then enjoy ourselves. Let's have fun terribly singing karaoke in front of everyone. In terms of the driver, I'd probably end up driving myself as I think I'm good at it, and in case they turned on their word.

4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?
It depends on what the belief is. I guess if it affects someone I care about, I'd be extremely firm with them to stop. But other than that, if it's a political belief or something, I probably wouldn't care too much about disrupting the harmony, unless it's something that I can form a rational argument against or if I'm asked about it. I hate to pick fights when I haven't had enough time to articulate what logic I'll use to counter.

5. What would you do if you actually saw/experienced something that clashes with your previous beliefs, experiences, and habits?
I can get very protective and aggressive when it comes to defending people I love or people that I find are victims of circumstance. I have a big brother side to me. My values have less to do with society or ideas, but pretty much come to face with the people I care about. I've been extremely protective over women in general in my life as well.

6. What are some of your most important values? How did you come about determining them? How can they change?
Protect the people around me. We should, as a society, protect each other as we do with family. I also believe in valuing common sense, using our heads, exploring and having fun immersing ourselves in our senses, whether that's trying new foods, finding new music, engaging in intimacy, or seeing new places.

7. a) What about your personality most distinguishes you from everyone else? b) If you could change one thing about you personality, what would it be? Why?
I excel at understanding people. I've been talented at presenting and being perceived as confident. I'm able to understand what people want to see, and then using that image that society/a group of people most like to then become that in order to be seen as respectful or more in control. When I walk in a room, I think: How can I best fit into this room?
I usually purposefully control my body language, and I have been told I have a really warm puppy like smile. I'm someone who's developed to become a person who enjoys hearing and understanding other people's issues and being their 'big brother' at times.
I enjoy thinking 'outside the box'. I'll compare myself with an INTJ. For a real life example, let's say there's a news piece. The INTJ I know will ask: What are the facts? What are the ramifications? What is the purpose of this? I'll see this exact same news piece and I'll ask: What are the different sides to this news piece? Is a Republican/Democrat take on this any different? Why do Republicans/Democrats think differently? In that sense, I'm more interested in thinking why something is, why people think a certain way.

Something I wish I could change is not to always be dependent on my image. I used to be a jerk and was extremely sassy and rude and wore a leather jacket because it made me feel powerful and helped me get hookups. When I started realizing how important meaningful relationships could be, I had a hard time breaking out of my cycle of 'Act this way to get this reaction from people'. I've gotten better at it, but being vulnerable and close with people is something I'm still learning.

8. How do you treat hunches or gut feelings? In what situations are they most often triggered?
I guess I get hunches about people, whether I can trust them or not. I usually take things at face value, so if I think there's something off with someone, I usually stick to that notion until proven otherwise. My hunches usually come from paranoia than out of a wise insight.

9. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?
Social interaction energizes me a lot. I get energized a lot by doing things as well. Motorbiking on the countryside or sledding on a steep hill. For me, it's the experience that matters, people enhance it of course, but that's more secondary for me. I get extremely drained by boring, intellectual stuff. Classrooms have, usually, if they haven't implemented group projects or hands on stuff drained me by lecturing and talking about abstract stuff. I also get drained by not having enough social interaction.

10. What do you repress about your outward behavior or internal thought process when around others? Why?
I actually understand things a lot more than I seem. I internally fit things to make sense for me and I don't always share this. I think independently, and if something makes sense to me, I don't necessarily need anyone else to understand that. I also try to hide my internal emotions by acting positive or enthusiastic even if I'm not feeling well.

 

[Chase123]

*this is my mini reminder to come back with a very informative post on outlining some of this*

Cool, I have a questionnaire too posted on this thread if that'd help

 

[Red Memories]

1. Click on this link: Flickr: Explore! Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it.
This is the picture that I found: At Home.Afternoon. | Elena Shumilova | Flickr
These are my initial perceptions of the image: I love all the colors and textures of the picture. The lighting is amazing. I love how the light of the window is peering from the back. I like how the light reflects onto the plant and I like how you can see trickles of light on the water. I like how there are shadowy shades around the edge of the pic. I don't see a way this picture could be improved, I think the way it is set up shows beauty, and therefore it fulfilled its purpose.
Also, what is the kid doing? Why does the kid look sad? Is the kid sad? Why is the kid holding that necklace thing? Is the kid feeling abandoned and alone? Rejected? Bored? Is this picture representing emotions or something else? The picture makes me question the motives, and it also makes me curious how the photographer set everything up.
The cat’s an interesting part of the picture, I’m not sure what the cat’s purpose is, but it seems to be displaying an ordinary household.

2. You are with a group of people in a car, heading to a different town to see your favourite band/artist/musician. Suddenly, the car breaks down for an unknown reason in the middle of nowhere. What are your initial thoughts? What are your outward reactions?
I'm not someone who's a planner nor am I someone who gets disappointed easily. Once the car is on the side of the road, I'll immediately be thinking of a solution. What's the problem with the car? How do we fix it it? What's everyone's emotional reaction? I'd be taking things moment by moment, so I wouldn't be worried about what we'd do if the car doesn't work but if that came to be I'd figure out games we could play to compensate. I guess my reaction would be: How to fix the problem, and how everyone is, if we're stuck, we'll go with the flow and find some sort of enjoyment even if it seems our initial plan didn't work.

3. You somehow make it to the concert. The driver wants to go to the afterparty that was announced (and assure you they won't drink so they can drive back later). How do you feel about this party? What do you do?
I'm always up for social interaction, so I'd probably keep an eye on the driver and everyone at the party to make sure everyone is okay and we could then enjoy ourselves. Let's have fun terribly singing karaoke in front of everyone. In terms of the driver, I'd probably end up driving myself as I think I'm good at it, and in case they turned on their word.

4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?
It depends on what the belief is. I guess if it affects someone I care about, I'd be extremely firm with them to stop. But other than that, if it's a political belief or something, I probably wouldn't care too much about disrupting the harmony, unless it's something that I can form a rational argument against or if I'm asked about it. I hate to pick fights when I haven't had enough time to articulate what logic I'll use to counter.

5. What would you do if you actually saw/experienced something that clashes with your previous beliefs, experiences, and habits?
I can get very protective and aggressive when it comes to defending people I love or people that I find are victims of circumstance. I have a big brother side to me. My values have less to do with society or ideas, but pretty much come to face with the people I care about. I've been extremely protective over women in general in my life as well.

6. What are some of your most important values? How did you come about determining them? How can they change?
Protect the people around me. We should, as a society, protect each other as we do with family. I also believe in valuing common sense, using our heads, exploring and having fun immersing ourselves in our senses, whether that's trying new foods, finding new music, engaging in intimacy, or seeing new places.

7. a) What about your personality most distinguishes you from everyone else? b) If you could change one thing about you personality, what would it be? Why?
I excel at understanding people. I've been talented at presenting and being perceived as confident. I'm able to understand what people want to see, and then using that image that society/a group of people most like to then become that in order to be seen as respectful or more in control. When I walk in a room, I think: How can I best fit into this room?
I usually purposefully control my body language, and I have been told I have a really warm puppy like smile. I'm someone who's developed to become a person who enjoys hearing and understanding other people's issues and being their 'big brother' at times.
I enjoy thinking 'outside the box'. I'll compare myself with an INTJ. For a real life example, let's say there's a news piece. The INTJ I know will ask: What are the facts? What are the ramifications? What is the purpose of this? I'll see this exact same news piece and I'll ask: What are the different sides to this news piece? Is a Republican/Democrat take on this any different? Why do Republicans/Democrats think differently? In that sense, I'm more interested in thinking why something is, why people think a certain way.

Something I wish I could change is not to always be dependent on my image. I used to be a jerk and was extremely sassy and rude and wore a leather jacket because it made me feel powerful and helped me get hookups. When I started realizing how important meaningful relationships could be, I had a hard time breaking out of my cycle of 'Act this way to get this reaction from people'. I've gotten better at it, but being vulnerable and close with people is something I'm still learning.

8. How do you treat hunches or gut feelings? In what situations are they most often triggered?
I guess I get hunches about people, whether I can trust them or not. I usually take things at face value, so if I think there's something off with someone, I usually stick to that notion until proven otherwise. My hunches usually come from paranoia than out of a wise insight.

9. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?
Social interaction energizes me a lot. I get energized a lot by doing things as well. Motorbiking on the countryside or sledding on a steep hill. For me, it's the experience that matters, people enhance it of course, but that's more secondary for me. I get extremely drained by boring, intellectual stuff. Classrooms have, usually, if they haven't implemented group projects or hands on stuff drained me by lecturing and talking about abstract stuff. I also get drained by not having enough social interaction.

10. What do you repress about your outward behavior or internal thought process when around others? Why?
I actually understand things a lot more than I seem. I internally fit things to make sense for me and I don't always share this. I think independently, and if something makes sense to me, I don't necessarily need anyone else to understand that. I also try to hide my internal emotions by acting positive or enthusiastic even if I'm not feeling well.

I know this is irrelevant to the question but my first thing slapping me from this is Ni. You appear to utilize Ni heavily to piece together what you take in. It would still fit since your inferior function works as a framework to your bigger picture.

I would say by your answers, ESTP is not a bad fit. I think many mistake the difference between Fi and Fe because of socialization and expression. Many feel that Fe is this over domineering tell you what to believe type, but you left a typical Fe answer above. How in the car, you said if it didn't disrupt anything, you likely wouldn't push it. Fe will only create the conflict if they see it as disrupting the whole. Fi will disrupt the harmony if their inner peace is conflicted by the differing value. Fe and Fi can both be protective, both lack or have tons of morals, and both stand up or not stand up for said morals, but it is about WHY they make the decisions they do. You did not react not as something inside you said it did not matter, but because it did not disrupt the harmony.

 

[Chase123]

I know this is irrelevant to the question but my first thing slapping me from this is Ni. You appear to utilize Ni heavily to piece together what you take in. It would still fit since your inferior function works as a framework to your bigger picture.

Now, this intrigues me. I could possibly be an ENFJ. I've never really thought of Ni being higher up in my stack but I'm starting to think that this could be a possibility. I've always thought I used Ni unhealthily, which made me assume it was a grip function. In my depressive states I tend to feel pessimistic and unable to see the future clearly because I envision terrible futures that I feel is inevitable and unavoidable. However, I've always had a wiser side to me. I was watching a edit for a character, and I could see myself and other people being expressed by the feelings this video was showing the character going through. I have a hard time expressing this because not many people will see the connection that I do (For example, the song is presented to make the character's journey seem sad, and this displayed an emotion which reminded me of what my friend would be feeling if they were in a story). I saw a connection between the music and my friend's feelings, and a connection between the character's and my friend's journey. What are your thoughts on that? Is that Ni at work? Is it more likely Ni is higher in my stack?

I would say by your answers, ESTP is not a bad fit. I think many mistake the difference between Fi and Fe because of socialization and expression. Many feel that Fe is this over domineering tell you what to believe type, but you left a typical Fe answer above. How in the car, you said if it didn't disrupt anything, you likely wouldn't push it. Fe will only create the conflict if they see it as disrupting the whole. Fi will disrupt the harmony if their inner peace is conflicted by the differing value. Fe and Fi can both be protective, both lack or have tons of morals, and both stand up or not stand up for said morals, but it is about WHY they make the decisions they do. You did not react not as something inside you said it did not matter, but because it did not disrupt the harmony.

I guess in a way, I question how strong an ESTP's tertiary function, Fe, could be displayed. A lot of descriptions have ESTP's as jerkish assholes or people who don't form emotional connections right away. For me, it's slightly different, if I have tertiary Fe, I use it quite well, and at times in my life I can definitely make emotional decisions.

I've always thought I was just way too adaptable, relaxed and spontaneous to be an ENFJ, and I'm not as self understanding as an Fi user. In fact, I literally told my sister this: ''Hey sis, I struggle accepting that my feelings are valid because society and logic are telling me that I should feel a certain way. How do I feel the way I feel without pressuring myself to make sense of it?'' In this sense, I HATE talking about my feelings with other people because they tell me how to feel and I'll usually end up thinking they're right, because if society expects me to feel a certain way, shouldn't I feel that way?

And yeah, the argument thing brought up an interesting perspective from me and my ENFP cousin. My ENFP cousin has a very cheerful attitude but there are times when he uncharacteristically becomes extremely defensive and bossy over his values or other people (Tertiary Te, I suspect). It's like a light switch for him. At times, he feels he's always right. He'll say: '' This is the way things should be, I believe strongly in it and I don't care what you think, I will gnash my teeth at you if you attack it.''
For me, I'm different. I have a very cheerful attitude as well but I'm extremely good at what emotions I present, which can make me manipulative. There are times when I can be uncharacteristically visibly emotional (Stressed, anxious), but I'm much more likely to be manipulative and speak up to express society values. So while my cousin speaks to his values, I'll say: ''Wow, you're her boyfriend, act more responsible for her, that's what we're supposed to do, as men, we should be a gentleman to her.''

To wrap it up, my cousin and I are both well liked. It's just that he's quicker to react and be defensive, while I'm quicker to manipulate and protect. I'm the kind of guy who would go to the beach with a puppy I don't own just to get girls to like me, while he'll go to the beach just to have fun and wear a t shirt of his favorite show to represent himself even if the show might not be considered 'popular'. I think that's Fe vs Fi in a nutshell, I'm just curious to know how high Fe is in my stack.

Thoughts? Am I more likely ENFJ? With the insights and connecting to other people and connecting to the bigger picture? Or am I a spontaneous ESTP who has strong Fe and a good grasp with inferior Ni? I enjoy talking about this with you.

 

[Red Memories]

Now, this intrigues me. I could possibly be an ENFJ. I've never really thought of Ni being higher up in my stack but I'm starting to think that this could be a possibility. I've always thought I used Ni unhealthily, which made me assume it was a grip function. In my depressive states I tend to feel pessimistic and unable to see the future clearly because I envision terrible futures that I feel is inevitable and unavoidable. However, I've always had a wiser side to me. I was watching a edit for a character, and I could see myself and other people being expressed by the feelings this video was showing the character going through. I have a hard time expressing this because not many people will see the connection that I do (For example, the song is presented to make the character's journey seem sad, and this displayed an emotion which reminded me of what my friend would be feeling if they were in a story). I saw a connection between the music and my friend's feelings, and a connection between the character's and my friend's journey. What are your thoughts on that? Is that Ni at work? Is it more likely Ni is higher in my stack?


I guess in a way, I question how strong an ESTP's tertiary function, Fe, could be displayed. A lot of descriptions have ESTP's as jerkish assholes or people who don't form emotional connections right away. For me, it's slightly different, if I have tertiary Fe, I use it quite well, and at times in my life I can definitely make emotional decisions.

I've always thought I was just way too adaptable, relaxed and spontaneous to be an ENFJ, and I'm not as self understanding as an Fi user. In fact, I literally told my sister this: ''Hey sis, I struggle accepting that my feelings are valid because society and logic are telling me that I should feel a certain way. How do I feel the way I feel without pressuring myself to make sense of it?'' In this sense, I HATE talking about my feelings with other people because they tell me how to feel and I'll usually end up thinking they're right, because if society expects me to feel a certain way, shouldn't I feel that way?

And yeah, the argument thing brought up an interesting perspective from me and my ENFP cousin. My ENFP cousin has a very cheerful attitude but there are times when he uncharacteristically becomes extremely defensive and bossy over his values or other people (Tertiary Te, I suspect). It's like a light switch for him. At times, he feels he's always right. He'll say: '' This is the way things should be, I believe strongly in it and I don't care what you think, I will gnash my teeth at you if you attack it.''
For me, I'm different. I have a very cheerful attitude as well but I'm extremely good at what emotions I present, which can make me manipulative. There are times when I can be uncharacteristically visibly emotional (Stressed, anxious), but I'm much more likely to be manipulative and speak up to express society values. So while my cousin speaks to his values, I'll say: ''Wow, you're her boyfriend, act more responsible for her, that's what we're supposed to do, as men, we should be a gentleman to her.''

To wrap it up, my cousin and I are both well liked. It's just that he's quicker to react and be defensive, while I'm quicker to manipulate and protect. I'm the kind of guy who would go to the beach with a puppy I don't own just to get girls to like me, while he'll go to the beach just to have fun and wear a t shirt of his favorite show to represent himself even if the show might not be considered 'popular'. I think that's Fe vs Fi in a nutshell, I'm just curious to know how high Fe is in my stack.

Thoughts? Am I more likely ENFJ? With the insights and connecting to other people and connecting to the bigger picture? Or am I a spontaneous ESTP who has strong Fe and a good grasp with inferior Ni? I enjoy talking about this with you.

so just free thought
"In my depressive states I tend to feel pessimistic and unable to see the future clearly because I envision terrible futures that I feel is inevitable and unavoidable."
This sounds more like unhealthy Ne. For instance, in ISTJ, who uses Ne inferior, they envision worst case scenarios. This could still fit because if you were in an unhealthy loop, you may channel into a negative "shadow function", aka the other 4 functions you don't readily utilize unless unhealthy. It is like becoming a very messed up immature version of another type. So if you were Ni in your main functions, your shadow function would use Ne.

I see a lot of Ni from your questionnaire. I think because so many MBTI descriptions make Ni sound so "magical", it makes it hard to connect with. Think of a puzzle when you think of Ni. You begin building the borders, but as you build the border (foundation), you begin to foresee what the picture will be. You begin to see the pattern of the puzzle and it comes quicker, till you have an entire picture. You use the information you say, gather through a dominant or auxiliary extraverted function to draw a picture of a future or possible circumstance. Someone comes to you with a problem, and it may take you longer to give a response while you piece together the best options.

"I was watching a edit for a character, and I could see myself and other people being expressed by the feelings this video was showing the character going through. I have a hard time expressing this because not many people will see the connection that I do (For example, the song is presented to make the character's journey seem sad, and this displayed an emotion which reminded me of what my friend would be feeling if they were in a story). I saw a connection between the music and my friend's feelings, and a connection between the character's and my friend's journey."

This is actually more descriptive of a feeler function. Someone with a higher feeling function will more readily see a person or emotion attached to things like this. This could be Si adding to it as well, because you began drawing a connection between a friend's feelings (something you likely know from the past) and the present moment.

So what matters here is
1. Maturity. Maturity levels and health levels of functions can effect how well it stands on its own.
2. I utilize enneagram in MBTI for this reason. Enneagram is another type system but I feel like together, it can explain the discrepancies in MBTI types. For instance, if you were a 9w1, 2w1, 6w7 So/Sx ESTP, you may be A LOT more comfortable with Fe than the average ESTP. Like I normally type as an ENFP, and I also type as enneagram 1. 1 is a bit rigid and strict which would explain why some notice my lower functions more than the raw Ne.

personally reading this, I'd lean you far more a feeler than a thinker. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. ExFJs are great diplomats and use the thinking function to push forward social societal needed changes and etc. You can get back to me on more thoughts.

PS: Sorry I took so long to reply. I was ill for a bit. <3

 

[Chase123]

so just free thought
"In my depressive states I tend to feel pessimistic and unable to see the future clearly because I envision terrible futures that I feel is inevitable and unavoidable."
This sounds more like unhealthy Ne. For instance, in ISTJ, who uses Ne inferior, they envision worst case scenarios. This could still fit because if you were in an unhealthy loop, you may channel into a negative "shadow function", aka the other 4 functions you don't readily utilize unless unhealthy. It is like becoming a very messed up immature version of another type. So if you were Ni in your main functions, your shadow function would use Ne.

I've read a bit about the shadow functions. I was in an extremely unhealthy state a while ago, and I've been interesting in having MBTI help me understand my more depressive states. I usually get extremely withdrawn which is unusual for me, I start to think of worst case scenarios, I prepare myself for worst case scenario's, and I can be pretty hostile and private. It's made it really confusing for me to type myself. I get ESxP or ENFJ, but when I'm unhealthy, I act like an ISTP. Withdrawn, seemingly calm and serious on the outside with a lot of emotional damage within. I guess this would be the shadow function? Perhaps inferior Ti grip?

I see a lot of Ni from your questionnaire.

Okay, I'm seeing this too as well. A few days ago, I saw a friend of mine online, and I was thinking to myself... ''What will they do in the future? Will our lives be intertwined? Would they dye their hair black perhaps? Who will they marry? Will it be the person they're with?'' I have a hard time not connecting people, especially, into my grand image of the future, and I hate it. I guess I feel it makes me extremely different because I will see a friend as someone I want to be connected with in the future when they haven't even thought of it. I think that could be my Fe feeding my Ni? I guess it also makes me someone who really appreciates the moment too. You can't control the future and you can't control the people who will leave your life so appreciate them right now. It's kind of a sad perspective, but it's something I've learned to deal with, this constant oversight of life and the future makes me feel detached from my environment and which is why I love doing things like motorbiking or surfing, because finally enjoy the moment (Tertiary Se?)

personally reading this, I'd lean you far more a feeler than a thinker. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. ExFJs are great diplomats and use the thinking function to push forward social societal needed changes and etc. You can get back to me on more thoughts.

I'm definitely much more a feeler and I think I see why I've typed myself as an ESTP. Societal expectations have it so that males should be thinkers and I usually imitate a lot of ESTP behavior in the past because it's what's seen as 'cool' and 'awesome'. I think that's just my Fe wanting to be accepted, my Ni formulating an image, and my Se and Ti being forced to seem more outward than it actually is. I'm definitely caring and extremely good at reading the atmosphere of the room.

As for Enneagram, I took a test recently and the tritype came out as: 2w1, 7w8, 9w8. So if I'm a feeler and an intuitive...I'm more of an ENFJ than right? I feel hesitant when it comes to being an ENFP. Hope your illness is going away and you're feeling better!