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Type me by a self made questionnaire... Am I an NF or an NT? ?

OptoGypsy

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I look at the world and think like an artist and think that consciousness can be explained through madness and personality through entropy. A serial spiral of creation through destruction.

Going by the enfp description on the forum... I'm definitely an enfp who's still developing his fi and te. My career counselor told me that I take bits of information and try to reach a conclusion instead of focusing on the outcome, I'm not sure if this tidbit of information helps.
 

OptoGypsy

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[MENTION=34313]RadicalDoubt[/MENTION], any ideas concerning my enneagram, your expertise is much acknowledged and a great help, thank you. If you would like I can try to go more in depth, and try to connect to my inner-self on a deeper level. Thank you.
 

Vendrah

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You would want me to try to continue my opinions on this thread?
I could revise them.
 

OptoGypsy

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You would want me to try to continue my opinions on this thread?
I could revise them.

Yes please, that would be helpful :), I received ENFP on your personality test. I've been flirting with agnosticism, so I don't think I have a set ideology at the moment.
 

OptoGypsy

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The thread type my friends characters are actually based on my writings, and thought processes.
 

Vendrah

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Yes please, that would be helpful :), I received ENFP on your personality test. I've been flirting with agnosticism, so I don't think I have a set ideology at the moment.

ENFP or ENFP II?

NFs not being religious is not really a new thing.
INFJ forum have lots of agnostic INFJs.
 

OptoGypsy

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You would want me to try to continue my opinions on this thread?
I could revise them.

I've been thinking that I may have Se instead of Ne as I live by my senses and not fully aware of myself. With that being said I dont think I am an ESXP.
 

OptoGypsy

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ENFP or ENFP II?

NFs not being religious is not really a new thing.
INFJ forum have lots of agnostic INFJs.

ENFP II, The thing is that going by everything I've written I am a Christian but sometimes I doubt because it seems like truth should be more black and white, either scientism or transcendence, I've been reading H.L Mecken on Religion, and it seems to me that I may be a charlatan for not believing in the Bible in the literal way, in an honest way e.g the belief that miracles can be explained through science or that creationism is the product of evolutionary mimicry would make me a fake. Also allot of my belief system is based on what I've read and not what I've thought through myself.
 

Vendrah

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I've been thinking that I may have Se instead of Ne as I live by my senses and not fully aware of myself. With that being said I dont think I am an ESXP.

I hold the opinion that some cognitive function share borderlines on them.
Sometimes people refer to these borderlines as "Pe", "Je", etc...

Ne and Se share mainly two borderlines.
The one is on the experience part.
Whatever a person is constantly looking or having new experiences, although most test refers to Ne (and in the end even the one I did although I dont have much trouble on it), its more or less of a Ne/Se borderline. Ne for the novelty, Se for the experience.
Another borderline of Ne/Se is related to stuff hidden from your eyes but you saw them recently. In First Person Shooting games, it is when you see a soldier and then he disappears on the corridor but you somewhat have an idea where he is and where he is going to show up again.

You need to pay attention to these borderlines, as they can confuse you. It is really difficult to know, sometimes, when Se ends and Ne starts, or vice versa.

As for the rest, I still hold ENFP opinion, still being unsure and I dont think that there is much you can do for me to get sure or not. Its about the weird thing about you scoring high on Big 5 conscientiousness and some few stuff which I prefer to not repeat. As @Radical Doubt said, these religous/spiritual things are really that much related to MBTI (and perhaps they are not related at all). Borderline T/F is reasonbly common for ENFP.

I know thats tought to ask, but whats the story behind that makes you going to therapist?
Try to be as abstract as possible at these answers, but, please, no poetry, I dont like poetry.
 

OptoGypsy

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I hold the opinion that some cognitive function share borderlines on them.
Sometimes people refer to these borderlines as "Pe", "Je", etc...

Ne and Se share mainly two borderlines.
The one is on the experience part.
Whatever a person is constantly looking or having new experiences, although most test refers to Ne (and in the end even the one I did although I dont have much trouble on it), its more or less of a Ne/Se borderline. Ne for the novelty, Se for the experience.
Another borderline of Ne/Se is related to stuff hidden from your eyes but you saw them recently. In First Person Shooting games, it is when you see a soldier and then he disappears on the corridor but you somewhat have an idea where he is and where he is going to show up again.

You need to pay attention to these borderlines, as they can confuse you. It is really difficult to know, sometimes, when Se ends and Ne starts, or vice versa.

As for the rest, I still hold ENFP opinion, still being unsure and I dont think that there is much you can do for me to get sure or not. Its about the weird thing about you scoring high on Big 5 conscientiousness and some few stuff which I prefer to not repeat. As @Radical Doubt said, these religous/spiritual things are really that much related to MBTI (and perhaps they are not related at all). Borderline T/F is reasonbly common for ENFP.

I know thats tought to ask, but whats the story behind that makes you going to therapist?
Try to be as abstract as possible at these answers, but, please, no poetry, I dont like poetry.

I'm seeing a therapist for a mental disorder concerning the lack of connection with this world, I am mainly seeing her now for goal setting such as quitting smoking and doing well at a job. I am seeing her to be grounded in reality and to understand myself, not only through the shards of a broken mirror but as a whole person who can take care of himself and be grounded in the real. I am also convinced that I am an ENFP. The idea that encompasses my thought process is the same as the one that helps me understand my own mind, the abstract artistic concept of madness, in destruction there is creation, in a serial spiral through Gnostic serial climbing of a spiral, understanding of self in a world of shadows, the shadows synthesize into light. Otherwise I believe in the tradition of Pentecostalism. Perhaps my traditional understanding of the world is based on the inferior Si?
 

Vendrah

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I'm seeing a therapist for a mental disorder concerning the lack of connection with this world, I am mainly seeing her now for goal setting such as quitting smoking and doing well at a job. I am seeing her to be grounded in reality and to understand myself, not only through the shards of a broken mirror but as a whole person who can take care of himself and be grounded in the real. I am also convinced that I am an ENFP. The idea that encompasses my thought process is the same as the one that helps me understand my own mind, the abstract artistic concept of madness, in destruction there is creation, in a serial spiral through Gnostic serial climbing of a spiral, understanding of self in a world of shadows, the shadows synthesize into light. Otherwise I believe in the tradition of Pentecostalism. Perhaps my traditional understanding of the world is based on the inferior Si?

I dont really know much about religious and spiritual part and connection to MBTI. And, of course, there are many reasons to doubt the bible, but that would derail the entire thread (and can get me on terrible fights).

Im not quite sure because I havent read completely, but Jung originally connects spiritual stuff to Ni. Thats the only thing I know so far.

Sorry for asking, but the lack of connection origined from what?
And second, is this lack of connection related to apathy and/or despersonalization (despersonalization is like the ultimate stage of disconnection, it looks like that people preaching detachment forgets to mention that ultimate detachment is not considered healthy)?
 

OptoGypsy

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I dont really know much about religious and spiritual part and connection to MBTI. And, of course, there are many reasons to doubt the bible, but that would derail the entire thread (and can get me on terrible fights).

Im not quite sure because I havent read completely, but Jung originally connects spiritual stuff to Ni. Thats the only thing I know so far.

Sorry for asking, but the lack of connection origined from what?
And second, is this lack of connection related to apathy and/or despersonalization (despersonalization is like the ultimate stage of disconnection, it looks like that people preaching detachment forgets to mention that ultimate detachment is not considered healthy)?

Its from psychosis which contains despersonalization. I'm like the Joker if he was a demigod with a God Complex who changed the drug market, jk or is it more like Moriarty, either way I was off the rails, I didn't do anything crazy just had a bunch of fake memories that didn't link up. I guess any type can fall under spirituality, I am more inclined to try to be traditional in the Ukrainian sense, it may be conditioning, genetics or something else, but yeah I enjoy studying my parents country and its folklore and religious sensibilities and applying it to my own life. With that being said I don't dwell much on spirituality as I don't have the time too and I don't pray as much as I'd like too. My family's dogma is different, some believe in evolution, my parents take it in the way the majority of the bible belt does, and my nieces and nephews tend to be alt-right and postmodern. I myself am developing my own trend of thought and understanding of the Bible that I cant put a label on although its more a pet project at the moment and I feel as if I already wrote down every idea that I have had to this point. With that being said I have been called esoteric, which ENFPs can definitely be. I have also been called an absurdist, similar to Nikolai Gogol, and Kafka. My guess is that my family is full of a bunch of N's as they're all otherwordly, much more than myself although they have asked me if I'm okay after each story I share. I enjoy cosmology as a humorous expedition between the devil and God. Yes I am an ENFP. Also probably a 4w3, 9w1, and 7w8 enneagram, and sp/sx instinctual variant, let me know if you agree or disagree, I personally don't see any problems with the Bible, but perhaps it's the way I've come to understand it.
 

Vendrah

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No its from psychosis, I'm like the Joker if he was a demigod with a God Complex who changed the drug market, jk or is it more like Moriarty, either way I was off the rails, I didn't do anything crazy just had a bunch of fake memories that didn't link up. I guess any type can fall under spirituality, I am more inclined to try to be traditional in the Ukrainian sense, it may be conditioning, genetics or something else, but yeah I enjoy studying my parents country and its folklore and religious sensibilities and applying it to my own life. With that being said I don't dwell much on spirituality as I don't have the time too and I don't pray as much as I'd like too. My family's dogma is different, some believe in evolution, my parents take it in the way the majority of the bible belt does, and my nieces and nephews tend to be alt-right and postmodern. I myself am developing my own trend of thought and understanding of the Bible that I cant put a label on although its more a pet project at the moment and I feel as if I already wrote down every idea that I have had to this point. With that being said I have been called esoteric, which ENFPs can definitely be. I have also been called an absurdist, similar to Nikolai Gogol, and Kafka. My guess is that my family is full of a bunch of N's as they're all otherwordly, much more than myself although they have asked me if I'm okay after each story I share. I enjoy cosmology as a humorous expedition between the devil and God. Yes I am an ENFP. Also probably a 4w3, 9w1, and 7w8 enneagram, and sp/sx instinctual variant, let me know if you agree or disagree, I personally don't see any problems with the Bible, but perhaps it's the way I've come to understand it.

And where psychosis comes from?
I am already reaching a point of giving up this line lol.
 

OptoGypsy

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And where psychosis comes from?
I am already reaching a point of giving up this line lol.

It comes from despersonalization, it can be genetics and can be drug induced, such as smoking weed daily, doing psychedelics, etc. Mine was the product of a traumatic event. What do you mean by giving up this line?
 

OptoGypsy

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And where psychosis comes from?
I am already reaching a point of giving up this line lol.

If you're concerned with your mental health please see a professional.
 

Vendrah

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If you're concerned with your mental health please see a professional.

No, not mine, Im trying to understand yours depersonalization stuff related.

Its this traumatic event. It holds the key. But I already asked way too much, check this out from the other thread:

Me said:
What if I told you thats written on your function stack, would you believe me? However, I asked because I am not that confident - I actually dont have your confidence =P.
I already know that arrangement. I relate a lot of it, and what happened to you isnt uncommon, it happens to a lot of people in different forms. Same pattern.

I didnt read the text because I wanted to, first, try an opinion only based on your answer [EDIT: You Dario Nardi result], and see how accurate I can get.
That stack you shown belongs to ENFP with nerfed Fe. The rises of Fi, slightly, and Te/Ti are more or less of a compensation. The ENFP type relies on a "hidden need for popularity", its more or less that, as the same way as ESFP, due to the role that Fe plays on ENFP and ESFP. However, different from ESFP, a too honest Ne user (Im not quite sure if it is Ne or Fi, could be Fi) at one point get some sort of rejection, with some people working against you [EDIT: There is a chance that ESFP gets this as well, however Im not so sure]. The reason people that to you/us, that is more like an excuse, is determinated by the enviroment. Originally, ENFP should get Fe in the 3rd or 4th position from the test you posted, not at the back. Your Fe at the back is related to you giving up popularity (as some people do), and switching the attention to other cognitive functions like Ti, Fe or some Fi boost. Cognitive function use gets more spread and other cognitive functions are used as compensation. With the Fe nerf and other cognitive functions rise, E and F on dichotomy gets weak, and then you start getting INTP/INFP/ENTP as test results. If this gets like a deeper damage, it can even disturb J/P dimension.

Wow, thanks a lot for this. I really appreciated, and your explanation felt like a nail in my forehead. For real lol
It was exactly like that, specially because, in my childhood i acted like an XNFP and, in high school when i was depressed and under stress, i was typed as an INFJ. And now, in my last semester of my drama school, i'm getting something entirely different. The Fe explanation made a lot of sense to me. How it was dominant in me, then auxiliary and now is pretty much unused. I did feel this cognitive switch.
And the last point you made, about Te and Fe, makes a lot of sense. I never thought about it that way. And it also makes sense that i was also typed as a 4w5 and now i am getting typed primarily as an 8w7 in the enneagram.
Thanks a lot! Everything you wrote really hit me.

Does it makes sense to you? Do you had an event related to this:

During your own life, do you feel like, not mattering what you do, people truly cant like you? Like you were rejected or something like that...? And then that you needed to follow a different and more uncomfortable path, something like that?

I think that there is a good possibility that ENFP II actually hold some sort of story behind it...

ENFP II mainly is the replacement of Fe role on ENFP with other cognitive functions. In the method, I replace Fe with Ti. This replacement works in a way to prevent people with borderline E/I and T/F from ENFP personality getting other NPs (INTP, INFP, ENTP) as a final result. But the story behind the "Fe fall" can be quite deep and I think Im digging into deep stuff.
 

OptoGypsy

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No, not mine, Im trying to understand yours depersonalization stuff related. Its this traumatic event. It holds the key. But I already asked way too much, check this out from the other thread: Does it makes sense to you? Do you had an event related to this: I think that there is a good possibility that ENFP II actually hold some sort of story behind it... ENFP II mainly is the replacement of Fe role on ENFP with other cognitive functions. In the method, I replace Fe with Ti. This replacement works in a way to prevent people with borderline E/I and T/F from ENFP personality getting other NPs (INTP, INFP, ENTP) as a final result. But the story behind the "Fe fall" can be quite deep and I think Im digging into deep stuff.
Yes I find this to be very relatable. How do I go back to being an ENFP, I'd like to again start caring about meeting new people, getting into a relationship and my popularity. I've been living in trying to understand the world around me and creating a philosophy instead of other people. I miss my old charming self although some say that I still am others call the old me arrogant and that I need to find a balance. I'm too reserved and to myself to truly be happy.
 

Vendrah

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Yes I find this to be very relatable. How do I go back to being an ENFP, I'd like to again start caring about meeting new people, getting into a relationship and my popularity. I've been living in trying to understand the world around me and creating a philosophy instead of other people. I miss my old charming self although some say that I still am others call the old me arrogant and that I need to find a balance. I'm too reserved and to myself to truly be happy.

I have no idea.
Im in the same boat as you are. And [MENTION=40424]whateverr[/MENTION] seems to be too. I dont know if the community would think im made to saying this but I could mark even more people on that boat.

I can only explain some of cognitive functions changes. In essence, its Fe dropping and other cognitive functions rising.

And I can tell you, you are not alone, this is more common then we generally think but I dont have any method by using words or communication observation to find out who is at it. I can look at the cognitive function stack to tell that.

I am good at passing to others the impression that Im INTP. Actually, I ended up endorsing some INTP characteristics as well.
Cognitive function preferences and cognitive function skills are very different. No website truly measure the latter, but there are things like Watson-something critical thinking test and these kind of stuff that measures skills. A feeler can have a higher capability for doing stuff relative to think than thinkers, and vice-versa. I say that because I read some stuff saying that personality test such as MBTI and Big 5 failed to predict job perfomance, and that essays that test the skills - like Watson critical thinking test. Basically, MBTI measure preferences, not "talents".

This have its cons although. You/we are somehow importing some characteristics from other personalities, and it can happen that we could be good at it (depending on how we are "talenedt").

And, look, please really judge this on your own (I mean, if you really relate). I rather not even start a thread about this because some people with the most popular mainstream of cognitive functions (the ones that says ENFP is Ne-Fi-Te-Si) say that I must be mad, crazy or some sort. For the case, I dont really have very concrete and reliable data, but I am very used crossing MBTI with other stuff and doing links/connections between different statistics, and there are stuff indicating that there are sort of things like this that happens with ENFP and INFJ at least. But I can only understand ENFP, since I experienced it. INFJ I have no idea how it should be, I know there is something although.
 

OptoGypsy

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I have no idea. Im in the same boat as you are. And @whateverr seems to be too. I dont know if the community would think im made to saying this but I could mark even more people on that boat. I can only explain some of cognitive functions changes. In essence, its Fe dropping and other cognitive functions rising. And I can tell you, you are not alone, this is more common then we generally think but I dont have any method by using words or communication observation to find out who is at it. I can look at the cognitive function stack to tell that. I am good at passing to others the impression that Im INTP. Actually, I ended up endorsing some INTP characteristics as well. Cognitive function preferences and cognitive function skills are very different. No website truly measure the latter, but there are things like Watson-something critical thinking test and these kind of stuff that measures skills. A feeler can have a higher capability for doing stuff relative to think than thinkers, and vice-versa. I say that because I read some stuff saying that personality test such as MBTI and Big 5 failed to predict job perfomance, and that essays that test the skills - like Watson critical thinking test. Basically, MBTI measure preferences, not "talents". This have its cons although. You/we are somehow importing some characteristics from other personalities, and it can happen that we could be good at it (depending on how we are "talenedt"). And, look, please really judge this on your own (I mean, if you really relate). I rather not even start a thread about this because some people with the most popular mainstream of cognitive functions (the ones that says ENFP is Ne-Fi-Te-Si) say that I must be mad, crazy or some sort. For the case, I dont really have very concrete and reliable data, but I am very used crossing MBTI with other stuff and doing links/connections between different statistics, and there are stuff indicating that there are sort of things like this that happens with ENFP and INFJ at least. But I can only understand ENFP, since I experienced it. INFJ I have no idea how it should be, I know there is something although.
I find your theory to be interesting, they both reached the same conclusion, I personally adhere to the original as I think it's important not to only focus on emotions and values but also in logic and principles. I think allot of people of different types tend to categorize and try to know other people's mbti in order to know how they think, how to talk to them and how to best use their preferences, especially if they're in a leadership role. The important thing to remember is not to label yourself and not to restrict yourself and others by mbti. It sounds to me like you're maturing and growing up.
 

RadicalDoubt

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[MENTION=34313]RadicalDoubt[/MENTION], any ideas concerning my enneagram, your expertise is much acknowledged and a great help, thank you. If you would like I can try to go more in depth, and try to connect to my inner-self on a deeper level. Thank you.

Sorry for the delay, I'll probably be able to respond by the end of this week. I have midterms and a couple other things to wrap up before my spring break, which begins this weekend.
 
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