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  1. #1
    Junior Member mancino's Avatar
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    Default Please help me type myself – xNxx ???

    Please help me type myself – xNxx

    Hi everybody!

    This is my first post here on Typologycentral, although I’ve been reading about MBTI and Jung typology here and elsewhere for a long, long time.

    I’m writing because I’m stuck with clarifying my type, so I decided to ask for help – something I usually don’t do. I appreciate any insight you may have and, as English is not my native language, I apologize beforehand for any mistake and/or obscure wording.

    I discovered MBTI some years ago, and my first test on 16personalities gave me INTJ. I read the profile there and had the feeling of elation that everybody has when you read how you think and feel as if your mind had been read by a psychic. I immediately became addicted to tests and sites about MBTI, and so my problems started.

    The more I read profiles, the more I found things here and there that I could relate to more. I eventually admitted that I didn’t fit with the typical INTJ profile: I’m not cold, I get along well with people, I more an ambivert than a full-blown introvert, I can be efficient but I don’t like it. Other test – dichotomies and functions alike – gave me different types: INTP, ENTP, ENTJ at the beginning, when I wasn’t questioning my T, and then INFJ, once ENFP and, lastly, ENFJ with the Typologycentral test I’ve just done before posting this.

    (btw, this were the results, in case it matters: (with scores)
    Ni>Ne>Fe>Te>Ti>Fi>Si>Se
    Ni 9
    Ne 5
    Fe 2
    Te 1
    Ti -1
    Fi -2
    Si -6
    Se -8)
    The thing is, I’m 46 and I’ve changed so much in my life that I’m confused between two divergent assumptions. Maybe my true self is who I am now, and I’ve spent all my life uncovering it, so how I am now leads to my MBTI type. Or, maybe I am so well-rounded that any MBTI stereotype is not going to fit, therefore it would be easy to uncover my type by thinking about myself when I was in my twenties. For example, am I an introvert who has learned to socialize and connect with people, or an extrovert who was shy but finally overcame it? The only thing I’m sure about is my very strong N; the rest is foggy at least.

    I’m going to tell you more about me, so that you can have more info in order to, maybe, see the light that I’m not seeing ;-)

    Of all the profiles I’ve read around – and I’ve read A LOT –, two things stand out as the more fitting:


    These are INTJ and INFJ kid’s profile from Character traits for kids that are still true, based on your MBTI | Well+Good
    They fit like they knew me:

    INFJ
    A quiet kid who relished time on your own, you read constantly and studied because you loved it—not because you had to. You had a couple close friends, but you had a hard time trusting others enough to open up. But when you did, you turned into the most loyal, insightful friend.

    INTJ
    You were the shy, somewhat reclusive thinker who always saw the bigger picture. You did exactly what you needed in order to get perfect grades, but no more and spent the rest of your time reading or researching whatever you wanted. You didn’t care for rules or normal social conventions; sometimes you hung out with your friends, but most times you didn’t. You were an enigma to most.
    On the other hand, this is from a ENTJ vs ENTP comparison at ENTP vs. ENTJ: The Difference | Psychologia
    The fitting part is about ENTP’s ambition:

    Both types are ambitious, but the ENTJ is more ambitious than the ENTP. The ENTP is an entrepreneurial type who enjoys finding loopholes and workarounds. They aren’t too concerned about impressing others or gaining power. They want to be able to have fun while having their financial needs fulfilled and without anyone telling them what to do, and that’s about it for the ENTP.
    (I pick these out of hundreds of profiles, trust me)

    If I say that I was an INxJ when young and an ENTP now, that would describe me quite well. I am talkative, but was very shy and embarrassed when young, and with girls all the way to my twenties. I had to strive to fit with all the sensing boys all into football, I was a nerdy teenager (videogames, role playing games), and struggled to relate with girls; I was never lonely, though, as I always had some close friends to hang out with.
    I was great at math and abstract reasoning in general, and I’ve always been very sensible and caring with my friends.

    I had two mayor crisis and life-changing decisions in my life.
    I had a hard time picking my major: I ended up graduating in telecom engineering studying less than my peers and with straight-A grades (I’m Italian and in the Italian systems grades are very important), but I considered majoring English or some other foreign language (one of my passions), or maybe psychology. The thing is, engineering was the best University in my city, with the best work potential; the others were lousy Unis with little-to-none job perspectives. And my parents could not afford my studying in some other city.
    Engineering was kind of easy and oppressive at the same time: I dind’t have to work hard but I hated the human environment and spent there the least amount of time possible. After a couple of years, I was fed up, but could not make myself throw away all I had done. So… I found a workaround (first turning point): apply for an Erasmus grant to study abroad. Long story short, I spent one year in Norway (only option with English courses) and another year in Madrid, where I ended up graduating and finding my first job.

    I’m a perfectionist and an achiever, but not a workaholic – on the contrary I try to achieve the maximum result with just the right effort: I couldn’t stand the working environment in the telecom company I worked for (7 years there), long hours, competition and shallow appearances. So, after a long internal struggle, I eventually quitted (second turning point) and got into teaching. For the last 11 years I’ve been teaching Italian as a foreign language to Spaniards in Madrid. Less pay (but stable, I work for the government), more free time, less pressure… and I love sharing my knowledge in a peer-to-peer environment without the stiff hierarchy of a big firm. In class, we all have fun together, and they learn too!

    I’m great at abstract reasoning, number and spatial thinking always were my forte, but I’m also good with words.
    I came out first in a compulsory “aptitude test” out of 4000+ first-year engineering students (the test was basically pattern recognition and logic, pretty much like an IQ test). But I’m also a great communicator (I’ve been told). I was chosen to represent my former telecom firm at a London-bases conference, where I spoke in front of 300 attendees who liked my delivery (so they said in a questionnaire); in general I love public speaking and debating (some “debater” ENTP profiles fit me quite well), if the subject is not trivial (otherwise I smile and chat but it’s like a show). I’m also a good writer: I’ve self-published three novels, thrillers in Italian and Spanish, with good reviews; they are fast paced and full of action and dialogue, but with deep themes and character development.

    I’m very active and sporty, judo black belt and doing CrossFit. I can be on the move with a lot of things going on but I always crave more time for reading and learning. If I could, I would quit working and go back to study Psychology or Japanese, or both!

    I’m happily married, my wife is gentle, quiet, caring but not very expressive (INFP is my guess), but I’m always longing for more overt romanticism – I’ve a deep romanticism inside me. We have a lively, charming and gifted 10 yo girl (ExFP I think); I love playing and sharing ideas with her, she is so much fun! But I always end up telling her what to do when things get serious (homework, tiding up, etc.), discovering my bossy side, which surprises me because I hate telling people what to do, I never could at work and never will. With my daughter is more because I know she needs it, not for my ego. I want her to be able to focus on what she wants when she grows up.

    I’ve been told that I have something like people mastery (“don de gentes” in Spanish) because I can tune my communication style depending to who I deal with, so that it always goes smoothly. I’m always saying something nice and funny to have a warm and harmonious atmosphere with everybody – my students love it. The dark side of this is that, although I can fit well in many human environments, I don’t know who I am anymore. My best friend (male INTP, not into MBTI or psycology) once said: “You fit so many opposing clichés”…

    I don’t want to sound self-boasting, it’s just that I want to be as sincere as possible, so no false modesty. About my flaws and quirks, mundane staff bores me, and sometimes I’m absent-minded, lost in “my things” as I call them: the future, the quest for meaning, MBTI… I have good self-control, for example it was easy for me to follow an intermittent fasting routine, although sometimes I lash at myself when I make stupid mistakes, even insulting myself out loud. I was clumsy as a child, and nerdy in my early teens – somewhat fat, thick glasses, embarrassed – and it took me a lot of effort to overcome it. I felt I was trapped.

    I have a good relationship with my ISFJ mother and ISTP father, although I never really connected to them – I was very rebellious, although a good student. I ended up being the good son for their sake (I’m a lonely child). But they are very materialistic and short-sighted, I’m all into possibilities and abstract ideas. It’s like we speak two different languages. I wish it could be different.


    TL; DR
    In every test I took my N was to the roof. But the rest…

    Most likely type candidates (in the order I got them through time, not of likelihood) and my take on them (I’ll keep it short and to the point, I promise!)

    INTJ
    Fits: insightful, great at learning, focused, hard on himself, abstract
    My differences: sensible, tactful, romantic, not workaholic

    INFJ: insightful, clever, ambivert, chameleonic, intense
    My differences: not super generous, can be selfish, rational

    ENTP: debater, ambivert, curious, quick witted, independent
    My differences: not scattered, good follow through, not pushing buttons, respectful

    INTP: “braniac”, thirst for knowledge, independent
    My differences: more energy, not clear-cut introvert, sensible

    ENTJ, ENFJ:
    My differences: never bossy or controlling when young, not a bit

    What do you think? Thanks for reading. It was difficult for me to post this, so personal. I appreciate any comments.

    Caveat: I’m not completely sold on cognitive functions and I’m very skeptical, so you’ll have a hard time convincing me…

  2. #2
    Member noname3788's Avatar
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    Obviously, you need to study the cognitive functions. Let me link some youtube videos who do an excellent job at explaining how trickster 6th slot Fi affects your typing attempts... just kidding.

    To be honest, it reminds me of my own self-typing attempts. It's basically INxx (and sometimes I even type ENxx in tests), and the last two preferences are just exactly in the middle. And I'm also not convinced at all about the cognitive functions. It makes sense in a way that it can explain how preferences manifest in each type, but it doesn't seem to be solid when applied to actual individuals. Also, empiric evidence for type dynamics is basically not existent. Read more about this in the wiki section of this site, if you haven't already, reckful has made a great summary about this topic.

    That said, I won't give you a type recommendation. You show some attributes of all the types you mentioned, and this isn't a bad thing at all, it just shows that you're a well-balanced person. It just sucks when trying to type yourself. However I guess there is a reason why you want to type yourself, and I advice to dig deeper into this. The average person won't google "personality" test without any thoughts. In my case, it was a mixture of loneliness, feelings of not belonging anywhere and confusion about my identity that lead me into this. That was like 1,5 years ago, and I still don't know my type. Instead I learned how to accept myself and I learned how to manage feelings of inadequacy, at least most of the time. So I'm now quite comfortable with not having a MBTI type, and there are some people on this forum as well who decided to not type themselves. However I'm 21 years younger than you are, so I'm somewhat hesistant to give you recommendations, and I also see that you're certainly capable of helping yourself.

    Some type-unrelated things:

    I came out first in a compulsory “aptitude test” out of 4000+ first-year engineering students (the test was basically pattern recognition and logic, pretty much like an IQ test).
    We have a lively, charming and gifted 10 yo girl (ExFP I think)
    I guess it's safe to assume that you're gifted as well, and it explains why you didn't need to study as much as your peers, and also why you worry about "boasting". I guess seeing multiple perspectives of an issue comes naturally to you, and type theory is all about pinning down a preference for one perspective over the other.

    I had a hard time picking my major: I ended up graduating in telecom engineering studying less than my peers and with straight-A grades (I’m Italian and in the Italian systems grades are very important), but I considered majoring English or some other foreign language (one of my passions), or maybe psychology. The thing is, engineering was the best University in my city, with the best work potential; the others were lousy Unis with little-to-none job perspectives. And my parents could not afford my studying in some other city.
    I actually studied engineering as well (electrical engineering, to be precise), but I didn't finish. It wasn't too difficult, but deep inside me I never actually wanted to work in this profession, and so my motivation to actually learn for exams and to finish my degree quickly went down. The thought process behind choosing the major was quite similar: Something affordable, good career options and job perspectives, especially since I had some well-known companies in my local region where I could work. I just happened what's important to myself, the non-rational side of myself.

    I don't think my answer post has any structure at all, so I hope my thoughts on this were at least somewhat helpful. Just another random thought: Another personality theory named "positive disintegration" may be helpful. It's a somewhat different approach, instead of seeing personality as static, the basic premise here is that it changes, most likely due to negative events in life which deconstruct a current sense of self and help to rebuild it from scratch, to an updated version. However, it varies from person to person, and some don't even gain positive effects from this. I found it to be more helpful than MBTI, however for the majority of people MBTI is easier and more precise. I just have a feeling that you may benefit from reading into it, if you haven't already.

  3. #3
    Junior Member mancino's Avatar
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    Thank you very much, @noname3788 , for your deep answer, your time and energy that you gave to my concerns, your sensibility – and no functions involved! It was very helpful, both for your intuition and the warmth that I could sense between the lines.

    Yeah, my I is more than likely, maybe mild-ish. So I am in “INxx territory”, as reckful used to call it. He is the one to blame for my skepticism towards functions in the first place!

    You asked a very meaningful question, why I want to type myself. Maybe I long for validation, I don’t know. But I have been thinking about it lately, and your question expands on my inner doubts.

    It’s kind of funny to read that we share the same experience with technical stuff – easy, but not meaningful. Perhaps I could stomach it more that you could – a J thing? I know how to be dutiful, when it is something important.

    I’ve checked the Wikipedia page on positive disintegration. I could relate to most of it. The emphasis on verticality made me think of transcendence, spirituality and enlightenment. The quote from Joseph Campbell thrilled me:
    If a path exists in the forest, don't follow it, for though it took someone else to the Grail, it will not take you there, because it is not your path
    I follow the Hero’s Journey paradigm in my novels, and Campbell “The Hero with a Thousand Faces” is a book that changed my path a as writer.

    The quote also reminded me of the Zen koan:
    If you meet the Buddha on the Road, kill him
    It feels like maybe other disciplines can give typology a complementary perspective.

    This is all Enneagram type 4, I guess. I don't believe much of it, but in that system I always got 5w4. It make very much sense.

    So, maybe I will end up following your advice and accepting living in the Limbo of the un-typed!
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  4. #4
    Happy 2020! Vendrah's Avatar
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    Seems to be a very hard case...

    Few points...

    E/I - Do you know or are you sure that you have significant more IQ than other people? Like, would you make through a Mensa or something like that society if you wanted to?
    High intelligence leads to more introversion. That is visible through studies, where intelligent people tends to get more isolated and get a harder time socializing. There is a popular phrase saying that, the more intelligent, more introverted. Actually, the MBTI study I read about it was interesting that it was accurate that the highers level of extraversion happens with people close to average IQ - If was way more intelligent or way less intelligent, it tends to be more introversion (that article is lost somewhere on Google Scholar, you can try to google scholar MBTI and IQ).
    If it is the case, its very likely that you are, or better were, an Extrovert with a hard time with the enviroment. What appear to happened is that, when you get older, you started to get into enviroments that are more intelligent. Perhaps you started into a regular school as a kid, and then to perhaps a more special class as a teenager, and then got into a prestige Uni. In every enviroment the average IQ with people behind you increased, and the difference between your IQ and enviroment IQ decreased, which ended up making socializing easier and more "feasible".

    Sorry to repeat but perhaps I wasnt clear enough, for me you are an E that seems to have significant higher IQ (or at least I assumed you do have), and since the difference between your IQ and enviroment was high, your levels of extraversion decreased; And then, while you were growing up, the difference between your IQ and enviroment decreased, making your levels of extraversion increasing.

    Now, the hard part is really the T/F and J/P one... really...
    I dont have much idea but there is the enneagram.
    Your case is already a little bit odd, so I have my doubts if applying this is appropriate, but, there is this table:



    More about it here:
    MBTI/Cog. functions alternative theories, stats, studies & possibly more

    The quantity of ENs on 5w4 is almost zero.. That kind of killl my analysis but... But if you take 4w5, it leads to ENFP or ENFJ, with ENFP being more likely. ENFPs score one more point for being more likely if you are a "super-talented" at school while being a teen.. Because among people considered highly talented, ENFP is the most common type (but in terms of overrepresentation, its INTP).

    I cant get really conclusive about T/F or J/P, but I have a question:
    - Do you usually get them borderline, aka between 45-55%, or do you tend to have high T in one week, then high F in other, etc...? I will wait for the answer to keep going because that really make a big difference.

    Besides that, theres the funny concept of the super ENTP that you two keeps remembering me... Did you ever read about this one?
    I cant find on the internet, but the idea is that the super ENTP is good at using all cognitive functions (yep, sorry for mentioning them), using them according to what is best. That has zero evidence but its a funny idea.

    Also, still on cognitive functions...
    Do you have 3 different test from different years or perhaps at different months?
    If you had 3 different years, would help for my 3rd alternative typing. I could give it a try.
    Personality type distribution in 12 countries:
    https://www.typologycentral.com/foru...countries.html

    A new vision of MBTI and function stacks:
    https://www.typologycentral.com/foru...ion-stack.html

  5. #5
    Junior Member mancino's Avatar
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    Thank you @Vendrah, so much input on your part, I really appreciate your kindess.

    Yes, I suspect I have high IQ. I never really bothered to have it checked, however I remember trying a preliminary test at Mensa website, and the result that came out said that I could "easily apply". I don't have any other evidence, but I've always being a super quick learner in disparate fields. You could say I'm multi-talented.

    What you wrote about having a hard time fitting in an environment with low IQ is it something that I relate to, but I've always thought it was on my part to strive to be “more like them”, if you know what I mean.

    What doesn't fit is that, during my years studying engineering, I didn't fit in either! As I said, I tried to spend with my peers the least possible amount of time. My relationships improved dramatically during my two years abroad.

    The people that I love spending my time with now are those willing to discuss interesting, deep topics, in any field. Gentle, easy-going, non-materialistics, into arts, literature etc. Sensible, bright souls I would say.

    Regarding the enneagram, if you could point me to a reliable test, I will get back to you with the results.

    The thing is, I don't trust self-reporting test any longer. I really don't know to interpret some questions anymore.

    For example, I know that the test at humanmetrics is well respected. I took it many times (no saved results though) but there are many questions I have a hard time interpreting. For example, T-F stuff:

    10. When making a decision, you rely more on your feelings than on analysis of the situation

    15. You trust reason rather than feelings

    30. You value justice higher than mercy
    My answer to all of these is that… it depends! I know that I should look for a pattern the thing is that I don't see any.
    My decision making process is a logical and sensible one which also takes into account personal considerations and human concerns. On trivial matters, I go with the objective best option oftentimes but for big life-changing decisions I never weighted pros and cons. Going abroad, changing career, falling in love, getting married, having a child, all of those I chose because they felt right. Deciding on them after a cold analysis seems inhuman to me. I don't know if that's an F thing or an N thing, like having a vision or something.

    As I said earlier, I don't quite believe in cognitive functions; however, I dug into them before coming to that conclusion. In that system, my auto-diagnosis would be:
    I relate very strongly with Ni and Ne (can’t tell which one more);
    I have strong Ti; I always wanting to know the why of everything;
    My Te is strong also, but I have a love-hate relationship with it: a tool that I use when I have to, like being lazy and procrastinating stuff that I don’t like (mundane, routine, etc.) and then rushing things to get them done and out of the way.
    My Fe and Fi are less stable; It depends on the definition you use; I relate to strongly wanting to be true to my “real self” (whatever that is) but also being very respectful and considerate of other people’s needs.
    Si, I don't know, good remembering abstract data, not so much with misplacing personal objets in the house...
    Se, I'm sometimes lost in my thoughts and oblivious of the environment, but I have acute smell and hearing senses, and good body awareness (balance, martial arts, etc.)


    I have some saved tests in various systems, here they are. I hope they can shed some light. A big caveat: during many years, I thought “men are T”, I was good at numbers, I don’t wear my heart on my sleeve… Long story short, I never doubted my T back then. Later, I discovered that a substantial share of men are F (25-40% I read somewhere), so I re-framed it; I started comparing my judgment with other men’s, and now I’m much inclined to see me in the “sensible” male minority. So, I went back to the MBTI official source:

    https://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-...ing.htm?bhcp=1

    That changed my whole perspective on the matter. I looked back at my big life-changing decisions, and I was always following some sort of gut feeling/urge, not my logic. Since then, I understand T/F questions in a completely different way.

    Function test, don’t have the source, 2018

    Ni 15,45
    Ne 14,9
    Ti 11,3
    Te 8,95
    Si 8,5
    Fe 4,75
    Fi 4,25
    Se 3,65
    Best fit type: INTJ; or ENTP; or ENFP.


    Cognitive functions, similarminds, 2018

    Te 65%
    Ti 90%
    Ne 95%
    Ni 65%
    Se 20%
    Si 30%
    Fe 60%
    Fi 75%
    Best fit type: ENTP


    Dicothomy tests, 16 personalities: they actually keep a log!

    (ENTJ-A) 54% Extraverted 96% Intuitive 72% Thinking 73% Judging 59% Assertive Sep 3, 2016
    (ENTP-A) 77% Extraverted 89% Intuitive 68% Thinking 56% Prospecting 83% Assertive Sep 4, 2016
    (INTJ-A) 67% Introverted 91% Intuitive 65% Thinking 83% Judging 79% Assertive Apr 30, 2019
    (ENTP-A) 68% Extraverted 92% Intuitive 56% Thinking 57% Prospecting 94% Assertive Jun 3, 2019
    (INTJ-A) 54% Introverted 87% Intuitive 54% Thinking 69% Judging 82% Assertive Jul 25, 2019
    (ENTP-A) 57% Extraverted 88% Intuitive 56% Thinking 53% Prospecting 81% Assertive Sep 1, 2019
    (INFJ-A) 65% Extraverted 95% Intuitive 72% Thinking 68% Judging 83% Assertive Nov 29, 2019

    Big 5 with 9 facets (global trait at the end), similarminds, this week:

    Gregariousness |||||||||||||||||| 58%
    Sociability |||||||||||||||||| 54%
    Assertiveness ||||||||||||||||||||| 70%
    Poise ||||||||||||||||||||| 66%
    Leadership |||||||||||||||||||||||| 74%
    Provocativeness ||||||||||||||| 50%
    Self-Disclosure ||||||||| 26%
    Talkativeness ||||||||||||||||||||| 62%
    Group Attachment ||||||||||||||| 46%
    Extroversion |||||||||||||||||| 56%

    Understanding |||||||||||||||||||||||| 78%
    Warmth ||||||||||||||||||||| 70%
    Morality ||||||||||||||||||||| 70%
    Pleasantness ||||||||||||||||||||| 66%
    Empathy |||||||||||||||||||||||| 74%
    Cooperation |||||||||||||||||||||||| 78%
    Sympathy ||||||||||||||||||||| 70%
    Tenderness ||||||||||||||| 46%
    Nurturance |||||||||||||||||| 54%
    Accommodation ||||||||||||||||||||| 67%
    Conscientiousness |||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 82%

    Efficiency |||||||||||||||||||||||| 78%
    Dutifulness |||||||||||||||||||||||| 78%
    Purposefulness |||||||||||||||||||||||| 74%
    Organization |||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 90%
    Cautiousness ||||||||||||||||||||| 66%
    Rationality |||||||||||||||||||||||| 74%
    Perfectionism ||||||||||||||||||||| 70%
    Planning |||||||||||||||||| 54%
    Orderliness |||||||||||||||||||||||| 74%

    Stability |||||||||||||||||||||||| 78%
    Happiness |||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 82%
    Calmness ||||||||||||||||||||| 62%
    Moderation ||||||||||||||||||||| 66%
    Toughness |||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 82%
    Impulse Control |||||||||||||||||| 58%
    Imperturbability |||||||||||||||||||||||| 74%
    Cool-headedness |||||||||||||||||| 58%
    Tranquility |||||||||||||||||| 54%
    Emotional Stability ||||||||||||||||||||| 68%

    Intellect |||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 90%
    Ingenuity |||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 90%
    Reflection |||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 86%
    Competence |||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 82%
    Quickness |||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 90%
    Introspection |||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 86%
    Creativity |||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 90%
    Imagination |||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 90%
    Depth |||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 90%
    Openmindedness |||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 88%

    My conclusion of all these data? Maybe I’m an INTJ with strong F, or an ETNP with strong J, or a INFJ with strong T… In brief, an oxymoron. ENFP I don't see... too strong Ti for that.

    Any suggestion?
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  6. #6
    Member noname3788's Avatar
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    So you already jumped down the rabbit hole

    Since you asked for some tests: This one here uses questions from the actual paid MBTI assessment (but the scoring algorithm is different). It also breaks down each dichotomy into 5 smaller "facets". However, it's still a forced-choice questionaire and you may want to answer "both" or "neither" for a lot of the questions. Also quite long at 145 questions.

    For enneagram, there's another 306 question monstrum on the same site.

    I'm personally quite sceptical about enneagram, but it also seems to be quite helpful for a lot of people, and combining it with MBTI is a popular way to add some more nuances to the type. For me, enneagram showed the same problems as MBTI, as enneatype wasn't static but fluctuated a lot. I hope I don't discourage you to try it at least... And to be honest, even if I tried to type you, I actually have no idea at all what your type could be. Too many traces in various directions without a clear pattern (except for N preference).

    As a sidenote, I can relate a lot to your struggles with fitting in. There was always something that made me feel like I'm not like other people, that I don't fully belong where I am, that I haven't found my tribe yet. And it still persists up to the present day, and the worst part of it is that I can't explain it at all. People are usually friendly to me (at least for the last 2 years), I have some friends and acquaintances... and often I still decide to hang out alone with my thoughts. And the ironic part: Typologies like MBTI and Enneagram promise to resolve some issues by embracing and explaining differences between human beings, yet again I don't fit in here. Just let me say that there are people out there who may feel similar, even though it probably aren't that many. Sometimes I think that there isn't a shortcut towards truly knowing yourself, and that it may be neccessary to go through all kind of weird shit to arrive at something that was always known to you, just not valued.
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  7. #7
    Happy 2020! Vendrah's Avatar
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    English is not my first language either, this post is long and I started writing it yesterday and partially in a hurry to finish and I couldnt finished so i didnt googled some words that I have doubts about how to write them.. (I didnt conclude my english course)

    @mancino Yes, I wish to keep the conversation because this post wont be conclusive yet.. Started writing it yesterday and got it done on the morning... This is cool.

    I dont know much about enneagram, but as @noname3788 (that is indeed the closest one to your "situation" from several profiles Ive seen here) most of the community, me included, use the enneagram to create a sub-variation of their type, and in my case, there are days that Im more like a 7w6, but I am mostly 9w1 and that 9w1 could change. I dont have any reliable enneagram test, I took mine considering suggestions for 1w9 in type me topic and various enneagram test of the internet (that mostly gave me 9 or 9w1, but 4w5 or 5w4 already happened to me). And I have a little bit of 5 traits.

    And I am an engineer also (but never worked on the field). I was isolated either, never knew why I got so much anti-social on the Uni. Actually, I found out last year a reasonable explanation. After some good time on MBTI, I realized which types I relate and have more easy-engaging and which type I have less "compatibility" and thats not for marriage (like what is mostly discussed) but rather friendship. Then I started to search MBTI profiles for engineering students or engineers (never found the latter) and found out that the most types I thought better clicked with me were absent whereas the type I most have a dislike were fairly present (I found something right on my country). And that the few types that were compatible and not rare were introverted and for that moment I stopped 5 minutes to think and found out that was the explanation of why there was some guys which clicked with me but never wanted me (and with the exception of one they never wanted anybody else to be around, they appreciatte being alone). They were mostly INTPs, I think, and so I found out that INTPs on the internet are reasonbly accessible but in real life they naturally push everyone away.

    I think that could be your case either, even if you end up xNxx at the end of the journey.
    "The people that I love spending my time with now are those willing to discuss interesting, deep topics, in any field. Gentle, easy-going, non-materialistics, into arts, literature etc. Sensible, bright souls I would say."
    At least in my engineering graduation, most students were not at all like that. This could explain the introversion in engineering for you, it explained mine very good, since before I was into Uni I was getting slowly more extraverted and when I got to Uni except on the start I was getting less and less sociable as years passed through.

    And I am middle T/F either. In most tests, Im 40-60% in F/T, the dispersion even dropped after I already accepted I am middle T/F. The reason I picked F and not put an X there are the cognitive functions. I am in most times more Fi biased then Te,Ti or Fe (Fe is usually my lowest but the why is a long story), except when i started MBTI... When i started MBTI I was pretty much apathetical, had a misfunctional J (getting J on tests while not having much Js traits), and in that times I Te was equal Fi. Thats how I came for F, being reinforced by people typing me agreeing with that (Fi was more distinct than Te,Ti and Fe). But I do have and embrace T thinking traits, and I also have a love-hate relationship with Te. Te sometimes is good, but sometimes Te is used in some stupid ways or there are hidden bad intentions besides its objective justifications that arent truly objective and rational on these cases. And as a note, Im logical when getting aside with people on humanities and an emo when compared to an engineer. I never thought about man and woman comparison, but thats the same... Emo when compared to most man and logician when compared to most woman. Thats partially related to my avatar... I really see myself as ENFP wing INTP, or, in last years since I got to Uni, INTP wing ENFP. See myself as two is a simplification, not that Im actually split or bipolar, but its a good simplification, and sometimes the situation says "act and think like an INTP" and I do it...

    I dont know if I said that specific on this topic... Having a non-preference on one of the four MBTI dimensions is more the rule then exception based on what I gathered (these are dozens of cases). So, people on middle T/F is normal, as people in middle N/S, J/P are normal and perhaps people on middle E/I is even normal because E/I should be the most volatile of the dimensions. I do think you are middle T/F.

    About your test results from big 5... I dont like similar minds (but that came from their cognitive function test). Their grouping of Big 5 is complete bizarre compared to most Big 5 test and Big 5 Wiki. Orderliness is a facet of conscioustiness, and morality, sympathy, etc... are facets of agreeableness not conscioustiness. Its pretty messy and I dont consider it much reliable.

    The cognitive functions really dont help you much. I get it that its for your case, they arent of much useful. Your patterns seems to be the same... Ne=Ni>Te=Ti=Fi=Fe>Se>Si... or Si>Se whatever... So they dont help you much.

    But the log you gave me... Hmmm...
    I took a look and noticed that, the higher your E, the higher your P and the lower your J. Then I decided to correlate your P with your E and it gave me correlation of 0.8 (0 to 1). Thats quite high.
    Question is, there are two different and contractictive ways to give this meaning..
    First, we could consider that when you get E result the enviroment and the circumnstances are better for you, so your E correlating with P means that you are P, and the I days are days where the enviroment and the circumnstances are not doing much good to you and then you change to J to adapt.
    Or, there is even some theory on Carl Jung, a little bit out from the cognitive functions, its the idea of persona. I only read it through Wikipedia and some random sources on the internet...
    Persona (psychology) - Wikipedia
    With the idea of persona, you should be a J instead, and P is your mask you use while socializing.
    These concepts clash with each other.. However, the idea that E/I is somewhat dependable is present in articles on Google Scholar while the idea of Persona remains as a concept only. Actually, its weird but I think that its possible to merge them doing an assumption.
    If you truly are I, then when you have E moments, it means that you are socializing by needs, and that you would get to your persona because persona is quite needed.
    If you truly are E, then when you have I moments, it means that the enviroment is pushing you away, and in order to adapt to enviroment you get to your persona.
    Im still more inclined to see you as E, so perhaps you truly are P that has a "transcendent" adaptation and become J when the enviroment does call the need to be J. And you are so used to do that that you almost lost your identity. You say that you try to stay true to yourself besides what that is... But perhaps your unconscious disagrees (or, okay, you are too "dynamic") and since Ni levels is the best unconcious influence measure I know, you are quite under your unconcious influences and perhaps your unconcious does the change and adaptation for you... That doesnt mean that you should fight your unconcious like Carl Jung sometimes suggests.

    And I have a few observations...

    Si enters in the memory proccess, ok, but it isnt alone in most of cases. Remembering concepts is related to Ti. Remembering abstract stuff goes with Ne, Ti if the abstract ideas are concepts. When you remember data it can be Ne, since the interpretation of data is Ne. Ne can be used to access the past, as long as this past isnt a past that you actually live, but a past that was beyond all your senses (data registry can be seen as experiences stored in numbers, and when these experiences arent yours, it isnt Si, but actually Ne... For example, when I say "2 people were murdered yesterday", you try to imagine the murders as best as you can, but you didnt actually lived any murdered unless you are one of the two people that were murdered... The murder is Si for people who experienced it, either as killer or killed, and other cognitive functions for everybody else. For those who "picture" the murder in their heads, imagine it, its Ne).

    And about that ENTP vs ENTJ comparison... Im not quite sure if being ENTP is really a guarantee to not be power hungry, or if ENTPs are less power hungry than all other types, or if ENTP is really less power-hungry then ENTJ (ok, this latter Im more lead to believe and I have reasons for that). There is a lot of strange things in that comparison, really.
    Personality type distribution in 12 countries:
    https://www.typologycentral.com/foru...countries.html

    A new vision of MBTI and function stacks:
    https://www.typologycentral.com/foru...ion-stack.html
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  8. #8
    Junior Member mancino's Avatar
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    Yes, @noname3788 , I jumped... I hope there's water down there.

    First of all, thanks @Vendrah for your long reply, so much food for thought. I had this post almost ready before I saw your last one, so I'm only adressing part of it, there rest I'm still digesting. (and don't worry about the language, btw, which is your mother tongue? maybe... french?)

    @noname3788 , thank you for the links, the MBTI was the best test I took ever, now I understand why many people recommend to take the official one. A lot of questions made me think, you could tell that they put a lot of effort and fine tuning to have the right wording so as to catch all the nuances.

    These are my results:

    your myers-briggs type ENTP
    your form m myers-briggs type ENTP

    e n f p
    22 35 18 18
    15 0 21 16
    i s t j

    concrete 0 9 abstract
    realistic 0 9 imaginative
    practical 0 4 conceptual
    experiential 0 3 theoretical
    traditional 0 10 original
    initiating 2 1 receiving
    expressive 6 4 contained
    gregarious 3 3 intimate
    active 1 5 reflective
    enthusiastic 10 3 quiet
    logical 4 2 empathetic
    reasonable 5 3 compassionate
    questioning 2 2 accommodating
    critical 2 5 accepting
    tough 6 6 tender
    systematic 5 3 casual
    planful 2 6 open-ended
    early starting 1 4 pressure-prompted
    scheduled 5 5 spontaneous
    methodical 2 1 emergent
    I am very surprised but, this time, I am more convinced, at least about my P-ness. Many questions were actually in line with what I think about structure and planning: a means to an end, a useful tool but not the Bible; something that can be tweaked.

    I believe that it is my N ruling it all: I see a possibility, I get excited about it (look how high my enthusiasm is, I fully relate to it), then I start envisioning infinite ways to make it happen; I go into J-mode with the best option T-wise, but at any time I tweak the J plan as new N options manifest themselves. This is the way I wrote all my books. I'm never fully committed to the plan, you see. And when structure is imposed on me from outside - especially with work and family schedule - I loathe it with all my heart. But many quizzes fail to grasp it, now I'm aware of that. For example, they ask you "I follow a schedule", which I do! But not one that I would follow if I could avoid it.

    About E/I and T/F, i'm still unsure, but I can relate to the factes as they came out; I can be content (for the time being) saying that I'm an ET with some out-of-preference IF traits.

    @Vendrah , I am so glad you suggest that my E is related to my P, that is something I always felt myself; sometimes I had ENTJ in some tests, but never related; I can be forceful and very strong willed, but not in the outside world and against my F or my N - which is something that ENTJs can do, not just stereotypes, also the ones that I know IRL; I'm sure I am not like them.

    Searching for the super ENTP that you mentioned, I've found this article:
    ENTP ANSWERS — The Three ENTP Modes

    It says that ENTP has three modes of operation:
    Ne, wild idea generator, brainstorming and being wierd and funny (exhausting)
    Ti, analysis
    Fe, pleaser (draining)
    I relate to this point of view, but I would add, in my case: Te-Si mode, eg not INTJ, but ISTJ instead! That is, a dutiful, steady, reliable worker, slave to Ne; a means to an end; efficient and thorough, and draining. Like a fire extinguisher: "break the glass only when necessary"

    That would be the "persona" that you mention, another idea that I felt many times. I believe in the Free Traits Theory by Brian Little: you can act out of type if you need it for your core projects, it's just draining after a while. His book is very interesting, at least the first half, check it out - or at least his TED talks.

    So, function-wise (here we go...), if I accecpt my P-ness, all the mistyping can be exlpained:
    - I'm an E who was "repressed" by the environment, as you explained with plenty of true details - we two relate so much in our experiences!
    - My N is undoubted, therefore that make me an Ne;
    - Being so N makes me so abstract that the patterns that I see and my big picture views may sound so "out of nowere" that can be mistaken for Ni;
    - Ne-Ti looking like Ni and forced I can look like INTJ, first mistype;
    - As I am in my forties, I'm more focused on my Fe, also being a father changed me a lot.
    - pseudo-Ni and Fe make INFJ, second mistype
    I still don't believe in functions per se, but at least I see a way to frame it that way, which corroborate the diagnosis: ENTP!

    Now, the Enneagram: that was a long one!

    1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
    8 1 6 9 44 -8 23 7 5
    most likely enneagram type 5
    (with wing) 5w4
    possible instinctual variant stacking sx/sp/so

    type 1 self-preservation -1 sexual 2 social -4
    type 2 self-preservation -1 sexual 4 social -2
    type 3 self-preservation -1 sexual -3 social -2
    type 4 self-preservation -1 sexual 2 social 0
    type 5 self-preservation 6 sexual 4 social 10
    type 6 self-preservation 2 sexual 0 social -7
    type 7 self-preservation 3 sexual 0 social 1
    type 8 self-preservation 5 sexual -1 social 3
    type 9 self-preservation -2 sexual 3 social 2
    I don't know anything about variants. The questions were a bit weird sometimes, but for the most part I could identify with the answers I gave.
    Knowing how I answered, I question my 5w4; I see how I could be a 7 as most ENTP are. There were questions regarding knowledge and the urge to know, but perhaps my motivation is different from a typical 5 . IIRC, 5s want to save energy and be prepared; in my case, learning is fun! So I never related to the thrill-seeking typical 7 profile, but if I frame learning as exploration, discovery, and if you interpret fun as "exploring ideas"... that could be me. Maybe even with a weak 8 wing when I'm fully engaged in pursuing my idea.

    Maybe we could see in in a differnt angle: if I was to improve MBTI, I would change the 16 boxes paradigm; many people have a hard type choosing one because they have at least one 50-50-ish preference.
    However, it would work smoothy if you had just 8 types: one for each pole, N, S, T, F, J, P, E, I.
    Your type would be your strongest preference, period.
    That for sure does not change in your whole life.
    Then you could add wings, one for each of the 6 remaining poles; you could have no wing, or up to three.
    In my case, I would be a pure N, or maybe an N with a mild E wing, or a P wing, or a T or F wing, or all three, probably also depending on my personal growth.
    Another ENTP in the current system could be a P with a strong E wing (and too weak N and T preferences to have a wing there), and we would be very, very different, not boxed as "ENTP" as it is now.

    I've seen somebody suggesting that you could alter the order of the letters to take strenght of preference into account, but saying that i'm a NPET vs PETN, for example, multiplies types and invalidates the system. With my "new MBTI", it would be simpler than now!

    A closing remark to this long post. It's long because I felt compelled to share my views with all my passion, as you have done with yours, both of you, and with generosity.

    I end with this article I found, about being a polymath.
    You, the Polymath

    I didn't know the word, but I fully recognize myself in the Pareto rule applied to learning, and I've been called a "Renaissance man" before (not boasting, you know, it just happened). I even go around quoting the same passage from Heinlein! You could say it is my motto:

    "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." ― Robert A. Heinlein

  9. #9
    Junior Member mancino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
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    Yes, I jumped... I hope there's water down there.

    First of all, thank you @noname3788 for the links, the MBTI test was the best test I took ever, now I understand why many people recommend to take the official test. Many questions made me think, you could tell that they put a lot of effort and fine tuning to have the right wording so as to catch all the nuances.

    These are my results:

    your myers-briggs type ENTP
    your form m myers-briggs type ENTP

    e n f p
    22 35 18 18
    15 0 21 16
    i s t j

    concrete 0 9 abstract
    realistic 0 9 imaginative
    practical 0 4 conceptual
    experiential 0 3 theoretical
    traditional 0 10 original
    initiating 2 1 receiving
    expressive 6 4 contained
    gregarious 3 3 intimate
    active 1 5 reflective
    enthusiastic 10 3 quiet
    logical 4 2 empathetic
    reasonable 5 3 compassionate
    questioning 2 2 accommodating
    critical 2 5 accepting
    tough 6 6 tender
    systematic 5 3 casual
    planful 2 6 open-ended
    early starting 1 4 pressure-prompted
    scheduled 5 5 spontaneous
    methodical 2 1 emergent

    I am very surprised but, this time, I am more convinced, at least about my P-ness. Many questions were actually in the line of what I think about structure and planning: a means to an end, a useful tool but not the Bible; something that can be tweaked. I believe that is my N ruling it all: I see a possibility, I get excited about it (look how high my enthusiasm is, I fully relate to it), then I start envisioning infinite ways to make it happen; I go into J-mode with the best option T-wise, but at any time I tweak the plan as new options manifest themselves. This is the way I wrote all my books. I'm never fully committed to the plan, you see. And when structure is imposed on me from outside - especially with work and family schedule - I loathe it with all my heart. But many quizzes fail to grasp it, now I'm aware of that. For example, they ask you "I follow a schedule", which I do! But not one that I would follow if I could avoid it.

    About E/I and T/F, i'm still unsure, but I can relate to the factes as they came out; I can be content saying that I'm an ET with some out-of-preference IF traits.

    @Vendrah , I am so glad you suggest that my E is related to my P, that is something I always felt myself; sometimes I had ENTJ in some tests, but never related; I can be forceful and very strong willed, but not against my F or my N - which is something that ENTJ can do, not just stereotypes, also the ones that I know IRL; I'm sure I am not like them.

    Searching for the super ENTP that you mentioned, I've found this article:
    ENTP ANSWERS — The Three ENTP Modes
    It says that ENTP has three modes of operation:
    Ne, wild idea generator, brainstorming and being weird and funny (exhausting)
    Ti, analysis
    Fe, pleaser (draining)
    I relate to this point of view, but I would add, in my case: Si-Ti/Te mode, eg not INTJ, but ISTJ instead! That is, a dutiful, steady, reliable worker, slave to Ne; a means to an end; efficient and thorough, but draining. Like a fire extinguisher "break the glass only when necessary".

    That would be the "persona" that you mention, another idea that I felt many times. That is a concept I’m still digesting, but the disintegration/integration process is something I experienced myself many times in my life. Anyway, I believe in the Free Traits Theory by Brian Little: you can act out of type if you need it for your core projects, it's just draining after a while. His book is very interesting, at least the first half, checked it out - or at least his TED talks.

    So, function-wise (oh my, here we go…), if I accecpt my P-ness, all the mistyping can be explained:
    - I'm an E who was "repressed" by the environment, as you explained with plenty of true details - we two relate so much in our experiences!
    - My N is undoubted, therefore that make me an Ne
    - Being so N makes me so abstract that the patterns that I see and my big picture point of views sound so "out of nowhere" that can be mistaken for Ni
    - Ne+Ti looking like Ni and forced I lead to INTJ, first mistype
    - As I am in my forties, I'm more concerned with Fe, also being a father changed me a lot.
    - pseudo-Ni and Fe make INFJ, second mistype
    I still don't believe in function per se, but at least I see a way to frame it that way.

    Now, the Enneagram: that was a long one!

    1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
    8 1 6 9 44 -8 23 7 5
    most likely enneagram type 5
    (with wing) 5w4
    possible instinctual variant stacking sx/sp/so

    type 1 self-preservation -1 sexual 2 social -4
    type 2 self-preservation -1 sexual 4 social -2
    type 3 self-preservation -1 sexual -3 social -2
    type 4 self-preservation -1 sexual 2 social 0
    type 5 self-preservation 6 sexual 4 social 10
    type 6 self-preservation 2 sexual 0 social -7
    type 7 self-preservation 3 sexual 0 social 1
    type 8 self-preservation 5 sexual -1 social 3
    type 9 self-preservation -2 sexual 3 social 2
    I don't know anything about variants. The questions were a bit weird sometimes, but for the most part I could identify with the answer I gave.
    Knowing how I answered, I see how I could be a 7 as most ENTP are. There were questions regarding knowledge and the urge to know, but perhaps my motivation is different from a typical 5. IIRC, 5s want to save energy and be prepared; in my case, learning is fun! So I never related to the thrill-seeking typical 7 profile, but if I frame it as fun-seeker, and you interpret fun as "exploring ideas" that could be me. Maybe even with a weak 8 wing when I'm fully engaged in pursuing my idea.

    You could see in in a different angle: if I was to improve MBTI, I would change the 16 boxes; many people have a hard type choosing one because they have at least one 50-50-ish preference.
    However, it would work smoothly if you had just 8 types: one for each pole, N, S, T, F, J, P, E, I.
    Your type would be your strongest preference, period.
    Then you could add wings, one for each of the 6 remaining poles; you could have no wing, or up to tree.
    Me, I would be a pure N, or maybe an N with a mild E wing, or a P wing, or a T wing, or all three.
    Another current ENTP would be a P with a strong E wing (and too weak N and T preferences to have a wing), and we would be very, very different.

    I've seen somebody suggesting that you could alter the order of the letters to take strength of preference into account, but saying that I'm a NPET vs PETN, for example, multiply types and invalidates the system. With my "new MBTI", it would be simpler than now.

    A closing remark to this long post. It's long because I felt compelled to share my views with all my passion, as you have done with your, and with generosity. @Vendrah , There were so many ideas in your last post that I still need to digest some, I’ll come back to you when I have some insight about those.

    I end with this link I found about being a polymath.
    You, the Polymath

    I didn't know the word, but I fully recognize myself in the Pareto rule applied to learning, and I've been called a "Renaissance man" before (not boasting, you, know, it just happened). I even go around quoting the same passage from Heinlein!

    "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." ― Robert A. Heinlein

  10. #10
    Junior Member mancino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
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    Default

    (I'm having trouble posting this, I'll try splitting it)

    Yes, I jumped... I hope there's water down there.

    First of all, thank you @noname3788 for the links, the MBTI test was the best test I took ever, now I understand why many people recommend to take the official test. Many questions made me think, you could tell that they put a lot of effort and fine tuning to have the right wording so as to catch all the nuances.

    These are my results:

    your myers-briggs type ENTP
    your form m myers-briggs type ENTP

    e n f p
    22 35 18 18
    15 0 21 16
    i s t j

    concrete 0 9 abstract
    realistic 0 9 imaginative
    practical 0 4 conceptual
    experiential 0 3 theoretical
    traditional 0 10 original
    initiating 2 1 receiving
    expressive 6 4 contained
    gregarious 3 3 intimate
    active 1 5 reflective
    enthusiastic 10 3 quiet
    logical 4 2 empathetic
    reasonable 5 3 compassionate
    questioning 2 2 accommodating
    critical 2 5 accepting
    tough 6 6 tender
    systematic 5 3 casual
    planful 2 6 open-ended
    early starting 1 4 pressure-prompted
    scheduled 5 5 spontaneous
    methodical 2 1 emergent

    I am very surprised but, this time, I am more convinced, at least about my P-ness. Many questions were actually in the line of what I think about structure and planning: a means to an end, a useful tool but not the Bible; something that can be tweaked. I believe that is my N ruling it all: I see a possibility, I get excited about it (look how high my enthusiasm is, I fully relate to it), then I start envisioning infinite ways to make it happen; I go into J-mode with the best option T-wise, but at any time I tweak the plan as new options manifest themselves. This is the way I wrote all my books. I'm never fully committed to the plan, you see. And when structure is imposed on me from outside - especially with work and family schedule - I loathe it with all my heart. But many quizzes fail to grasp it, now I'm aware of that. For example, they ask you "I follow a schedule", which I do! But not one that I would follow if I could avoid it.

    About E/I and T/F, i'm still unsure, but I can relate to the factes as they came out; I can be content saying that I'm an ET with some out-of-preference IF traits.

    @Vendrah , I am so glad you suggest that my E is related to my P, that is something I always felt myself; sometimes I had ENTJ in some tests, but never related; I can be forceful and very strong willed, but not against my F or my N - which is something that ENTJ can do, not just stereotypes, also the ones that I know IRL; I'm sure I am not like them.

    Searching for the super ENTP that you mentioned, I've found this article:
    ENTP ANSWERS — The Three ENTP Modes
    It says that ENTP has three modes of operation:
    Ne, wild idea generator, brainstorming and being weird and funny (exhausting)
    Ti, analysis
    Fe, pleaser (draining)
    I relate to this point of view, but I would add, in my case: Si-Ti/Te mode, eg not INTJ, but ISTJ instead! That is, a dutiful, steady, reliable worker, slave to Ne; a means to an end; efficient and thorough, but draining. Like a fire extinguisher "break the glass only when necessary".

    That would be the "persona" that you mention, another idea that I felt many times. That is a concept I’m still digesting, but the disintegration/integration process is something I experienced myself many times in my life. Anyway, I believe in the Free Traits Theory by Brian Little: you can act out of type if you need it for your core projects, it's just draining after a while. His book is very interesting, at least the first half, checked it out - or at least his TED talks.

    So, function-wise (oh my, here we go…), if I accecpt my P-ness, all the mistyping can be explained:
    - I'm an E who was "repressed" by the environment, as you explained with plenty of true details - we two relate so much in our experiences!
    - My N is undoubted, therefore that make me an Ne
    - Being so N makes me so abstract that the patterns that I see and my big picture point of views sound so "out of nowhere" that can be mistaken for Ni
    - Ne+Ti looking like Ni and forced I lead to INTJ, first mistype
    - As I am in my forties, I'm more concerned with Fe, also being a father changed me a lot.
    - pseudo-Ni and Fe make INFJ, second mistype
    I still don't believe in function per se, but at least I see a way to frame it that way.

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