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  1. #1
    Senior Member batteries included's Avatar
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    Default Revisiting an old question

    I'v been recently questioning my type again, but not really sure I want to fill out a pre-made questionnaire. I'll just try to elaborate on a few central questions.

    Fi vs Fe

    Many people that have typed me see Fe as opposed to Fi. I guess how I tend to differentiate the two is that the former goes off of the immediate beliefs in their environment, whereas the latter is more "authentic" and personalized. So it's for this reason I tend to think I have more Fi than Fe.

    Ti vs Te

    Another function people seem to perceive in me to some extent is Ti, but they don't always specify its place in the stack. I do try and look for consistency and patterns, but it's not something that I've internalized as part of my identity. I don't think I lead with either thinking function, instead relying on intuition or some intuition seeming function.

    Ne vs Ni

    Ne seems a better fit than Ni. I've come to this recent conclusion, even though I'm likely to challenge it later, because I do tend to switch interests/perceptions of myself a lot. I'm not very organized in day to day life. I try to be, but often find myself getting frustrated when I drop plans or they don't materialize in some way. My academic interests seem to shift quite a bit, and I find there's not much I can do about it.

    Extrovert vs. Introvert

    I find that I crave positive interactions with people, and typically feel better when I have them, but since I'm trying a different career path that is a bit isolating, I find myself a bit depressed lol. I try to be supportive of other people, maybe getting irritated with them when they don't take my advice. I've learned not to do this so much, but yeah it'd a tendency I have to actively suppress.

    I'm a bit of a "class clown" when socializing, and if for some reason I'm not doing this, it's because I've learned it's off putting in certain contexts. So yeah, joking/supporting other people is my main mode when I'm around other people.

    So, let me know what you think! I realize it's not a ton of information. Honestly, I have a hard time talking about myself and tend to focus on other people.

  2. #2
    Senior Member batteries included's Avatar
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    Any thoughts?

  3. #3
    Cheese Vendrah's Avatar
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    So, no answer for weeks, thats the circunstances (ok the word is written wrong) for my coming!

    1) Fi>Fe
    2) Ti>Te, no-dominant, paired with Ne I guess?
    3) Ne?Ni

    "Honestly, I have a hard time talking about myself and tend to focus on other people. "

    ==>BUG<==
    Informations are inconsistent. Fatal error

    Ok, there is not much information but its inconsistent for real! Like you are, sorry, lying at some point.
    Ok, so Im kind of a Ne-user, with Ne kind of repressed and with Si in my communication, but Ill gather points of view and show how they bug.
    First point of view, comes from this:
    "there is a complete mismatch between what the i-e inside cognitive functions means (example: The i in Fi) and what the I-E on dichotomy means. The original concept of I-E as draw by Jung is highly different between the MBTI concepts we have today. They got so distant between each other that they dont correlate anymore. In a very basic matter, there are at least 3 definitions of extroversion/introversion over MBTI unofficial internet community, and in short they are these:
    1) How sociable and outgoing the people is.
    2) If gather "energy" from the "inside" or the "outside".
    3) Preferency towards the object - if attention is towards the object (external) then its extroversion, if attention is towards self (inside) then its introversion.
    Just a quick example, if you are watching the sunset you are doing an introvert activity in 1 and extroverted activity in 2 and 3. So, its possible to be introverted in one and extroverted in another definition, making the person being a quiet extroverted or sociable introvert.
    Jung original is related with 3 (3 is a raw simplification of Jung original concept. The original concept has dozens of pages on a book). Number 3 is E-I concepts in cognitive functions. However, I-E dichotomy is done towards 1 and 2 mostly, they correspond to MBTI I-E concepts in a simple description. So, while summing the extroverted cognitive functions and then subtracting the introverted cognitive functions, a I-E in Jung sense is measured, while the I-E in dichotomy tests corresponds to MBTI I-E that has a different meaning."
    Sooo, perhaps you are Extroverted in Jung sense but introvert in MBTI sense.
    Supposing that you are E in cognitive functions sum, then, considering that Fi>Fe, Ti>Te, then Ne>Ni, Se>Si.
    That would give you straight ENFP. Problem is, all perceveing cognitive functions are higher than your judging functions, meaning that you should never ever get ENFJ from dichotomy test, but you seem to do. Thats why something Is wrong.
    Second point of view, try to fit you in 3 first Grant Cognitive Stack..
    Fi-Ti-N
    Error. No Grant Stack is like that. Not your fault althought.
    Third point of view, I wont explain the whys, its of a kind of crazy MBTI modelling theory of my own... So I summon you, "crazy theory"!! You dont mention Si-Se, so I admit that you are intuitive and one of these functions is your natural achile heels. Te and Ti are not your leading cognitive function, thus the only possible doms are intuitive dom or feeling dom. Si or Se is your achile heels function, thus your stable dom function is intuitive, giving you being in intuitive domain. Ne-Ti forms one pair. Other pair is either Ni-Fe or Ni-Te. If it was Ni-Te, than it would be unlikely to you to have any doubt between T or F or have a F state, so its Ni-Fe. So, you are a INFJ with F/T being naturally boderline. For the present moment, you seem a INFJ in a extroverted state, more ambivalent state, with a opposing role Ti that should be located, giving a Ne-strengh, on 4th or 5th positions of the stack. Your Ni is suppresed by some odd reason...
    I had to speculate quite a lot to get this third view done since there is not exactly enough info and one text in one day wont give me the info I need, and I am not that good at text typing anyway... Like speculating Ne-Ti pairing, Si-Se achiles Heel... So, its kind of not reliable.
    Third model try to filter any state, depression and etc, out.
    Fourth, using a static version of three, no time and state-being, trying to fit Fi-Ti-Ne gives Ti-Ne-Fi (INTP with tertiary Fi) or Ti-Ne-Fi (INFP with tertiary Ti). I tested this one in another day, and it kind of failed some cases, but I promised you lot of views.
    Fifth, sixth... Lets just skip to ten? Just kidding, 4 is enough.
    Last edited by Vendrah; 11-19-2019 at 01:15 PM.

  4. #4
    Senior Member batteries included's Avatar
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    "INFJ in extroverted state"

    Interesting. I don't seem similar to many INFJs online, but it's possible. I've always seen myself as ENFx at the very least. I switch between Ni/Ne, not necessarily very coherent, but self-concept isn't necessarily stable.

    So many perspectives you have there, quite confusing I agree. I am in a suppressing environment, so also probably true I'm suppressing or overusing one or more functions etc.

  5. #5
    Senior Member batteries included's Avatar
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    If it helps shed some insight, social reinforcement of identity is definitely a priority for me.

  6. #6
    Cheese Vendrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batteries included View Post
    "INFJ in extroverted state"

    Interesting. I don't seem similar to many INFJs online, but it's possible. I've always seen myself as ENFx at the very least. I switch between Ni/Ne, not necessarily very coherent, but self-concept isn't necessarily stable.

    So many perspectives you have there, quite confusing I agree. I am in a suppressing environment, so also probably true I'm suppressing or overusing one or more functions etc.
    The method from the result of "extroverted INFJ" was me getting too far in using a method that is a 'child' (but in no way childish) in an unproper way. But it has a say on the 'suprressing' enviroment, with suppression or overuse of cognitive functions: There is one 'true' or permanent type and one other type that is more like a state (which is you adapting the enviroment), but deducting your 'true' type is not straight easy at all (its hard). Im saying that inside that frame, and I do believe it (not fully) but I dont have much arguments to support it. Dichotomy tests (the ones that doesnt use cognitive functions) tends to change from time to time, based on big samples as far as I remember in the MBTI official test types changes in a little bit more than 30% of the cases with one year time window.

    Giving that there is not much I can help at the moment, you could try reading types description and try to see which is more like you (Myers originally does this recommendation).
    Personality type distribution in 12 countries:
    https://www.typologycentral.com/foru...countries.html

    A new vision of MBTI and function stacks:
    https://www.typologycentral.com/foru...ion-stack.html

  7. #7
    Senior Member batteries included's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vendrah View Post
    The method from the result of "extroverted INFJ" was me getting too far in using a method that is a 'child' (but in no way childish) in an unproper way. But it has a say on the 'suprressing' enviroment, with suppression or overuse of cognitive functions: There is one 'true' or permanent type and one other type that is more like a state (which is you adapting the enviroment), but deducting your 'true' type is not straight easy at all (its hard). Im saying that inside that frame, and I do believe it (not fully) but I dont have much arguments to support it. Dichotomy tests (the ones that doesnt use cognitive functions) tends to change from time to time, based on big samples as far as I remember in the MBTI official test types changes in a little bit more than 30% of the cases with one year time window.

    Giving that there is not much I can help at the moment, you could try reading types description and try to see which is more like you (Myers originally does this recommendation).
    I can see the suppressed dom function argument (and enfp would be infjs shadow function correct?), and I did type as INFJ once upon, but apparently is a very easy mistype. I still relate to ENFP way more than INFJ day-to-day just as an expression of function, but I'm not close to other types. It also seems that Ni dom types reach firm conclusions and stick to them most of the time, which is sort of in contrast to how I perceive things.

  8. #8
    Cheese Vendrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batteries included View Post
    I can see the suppressed dom function argument (and enfp would be infjs shadow function correct?), and I did type as INFJ once upon, but apparently is a very easy mistype. I still relate to ENFP way more than INFJ day-to-day just as an expression of function, but I'm not close to other types. It also seems that Ni dom types reach firm conclusions and stick to them most of the time, which is sort of in contrast to how I perceive things.
    I dont know much about the ideias of "shadow function" over the internet, but I think that ENFP shadow is, in average, ISTJ, since Ne-Fi shadow is Si-Te by "opposite reflection". However, dont take that your adaptation and suppression of cognitive functions gives rise to a full shadow mode where everyone from the same type adapts exactly the same way in every different enviroment by summoning their "shadow me". It doesnt work black and white like that - there are degrees of suppression, some function will suppress and some not, and in that regard I am not helpful at the moment (the best for you is a careful and critical introspection).

    People with a strong preference for intuition usually have both Ni and Ne strong. Some "Ni-people" with low Ne are expected to be sticky, but "Ni-people" with a good amount of Ne, not that much sticky. I am sure you already read some internet descriptions about Ni, and, if you properly pay attention, Ni in should be sticky and more narrow, yet some Ni descriptions does get something like "Ni is also having the big picture", which is more of a Ne trait. They create an internal inconsistency, where Ni is either stuck at one vision and yet it sees the big picture at the same time. What happens is that Ni-dom and aux people, in average, has Ne on their middle of the function stack, so they do get some Ne traits - they get their vision in Ni but dont get stuck or closed-minded due to a Ne support. However, most of these descriptions are black and white to the point of ignoring Ne influence in a Ni-dom, as if there is no Ne on a Ni-dom. So, Ni-people will or not will be very stick to their vision and decisions, depending on where Ne is at their stack mostly (actually, its kind of more complicated since I do think that there might be some influence from Fi, Te and Ti, even perhaps Fi, on the same subject).
    Personality type distribution in 12 countries:
    https://www.typologycentral.com/foru...countries.html

    A new vision of MBTI and function stacks:
    https://www.typologycentral.com/foru...ion-stack.html
    Likes batteries included liked this post

  9. #9
    Senior Member batteries included's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vendrah View Post
    I dont know much about the ideias of "shadow function" over the internet, but I think that ENFP shadow is, in average, ISTJ, since Ne-Fi shadow is Si-Te by "opposite reflection". However, dont take that your adaptation and suppression of cognitive functions gives rise to a full shadow mode where everyone from the same type adapts exactly the same way in every different enviroment by summoning their "shadow me". It doesnt work black and white like that - there are degrees of suppression, some function will suppress and some not, and in that regard I am not helpful at the moment (the best for you is a careful and critical introspection).

    People with a strong preference for intuition usually have both Ni and Ne strong. Some "Ni-people" with low Ne are expected to be sticky, but "Ni-people" with a good amount of Ne, not that much sticky. I am sure you already read some internet descriptions about Ni, and, if you properly pay attention, Ni in should be sticky and more narrow, yet some Ni descriptions does get something like "Ni is also having the big picture", which is more of a Ne trait. They create an internal inconsistency, where Ni is either stuck at one vision and yet it sees the big picture at the same time. What happens is that Ni-dom and aux people, in average, has Ne on their middle of the function stack, so they do get some Ne traits - they get their vision in Ni but dont get stuck or closed-minded due to a Ne support. However, most of these descriptions are black and white to the point of ignoring Ne influence in a Ni-dom, as if there is no Ne on a Ni-dom. So, Ni-people will or not will be very stick to their vision and decisions, depending on where Ne is at their stack mostly (actually, its kind of more complicated since I do think that there might be some influence from Fi, Te and Ti, even perhaps Fi, on the same subject).
    I do agree much of the function talk can be over theoretical yet not very grounded in reality. Intuition is a heavy thing for me, without glorifying it, so I think it is hard to decide between NFJ/NFP. Although sensing also seems fairly prominent, which makes me think ENFP is less likely? Dunno.

  10. #10
    Cheese Vendrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batteries included View Post
    I do agree much of the function talk can be over theoretical yet not very grounded in reality. Intuition is a heavy thing for me, without glorifying it, so I think it is hard to decide between NFJ/NFP. Although sensing also seems fairly prominent, which makes me think ENFP is less likely? Dunno.
    You could try keys2cognition test and post here, since Im more used into evaluating these result and collecting their data than text typing:
    Keys 2 Cognition - Cognitive Processes

    You could also pick up 16P or Truity dichotomy tests at the same time, they might serve to check consistency.
    This would be for more like a short-term evaluation of type (its all I know how to do for now), long term is a more different and more difficult task.
    Personality type distribution in 12 countries:
    https://www.typologycentral.com/foru...countries.html

    A new vision of MBTI and function stacks:
    https://www.typologycentral.com/foru...ion-stack.html

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