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Fe or Fi?

mancino

Enlightened!
Joined
Jan 19, 2020
Messages
125
MBTI Type
NFJ
Hi! I'm very, very late to this thread but I wanted to weigh in nonetheless.

@Meowcat , after reading what you wrote my feeling is that you are a Limbic INTJ in a Ni-Fi loop. That is the dark place you're talking about, going deeper and deeper, trying to figure out really hard (Ni) your inner emotional state (Fi), and getting out of it only when you start to act (Te).

I see confidence, self-containment and intensity in your writing. There was an INTP guees earlier, but you sound very confident when at your best, more J-ish. How do you relate to being J?
Anyway, I would not suggest to try to go right into Fe vs Fi analysis without a funcional contex, at least I don't think typing works that way. Think about yourself as a whole. At least Fe-Ti vs Fi-Te; even better, Fe-Ti vs Ti-Fe vs Te-Fi vs Fi-Te. The same function in a different slot can look very, very different.

You said you are pretty sure about your F being low in the stack, therefore is Ti-Fe or Te-Fi, being dom-inf or aux-tert. Do you see a wide gap between your T and F or do they work in harmony?

Just my 2c. Hope it helps!
 

Meowcat

New member
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
209
Hi! I'm very, very late to this thread but I wanted to weigh in nonetheless.

@Meowcat , after reading what you wrote my feeling is that you are a Limbic INTJ in a Ni-Fi loop. That is the dark place you're talking about, going deeper and deeper, trying to figure out really hard (Ni) your inner emotional state (Fi), and getting out of it only when you start to act (Te).

I see confidence, self-containment and intensity in your writing. There was an INTP guees earlier, but you sound very confident when at your best, more J-ish. How do you relate to being J?
Anyway, I would not suggest to try to go right into Fe vs Fi analysis without a funcional contex, at least I don't think typing works that way. Think about yourself as a whole. At least Fe-Ti vs Fi-Te; even better, Fe-Ti vs Ti-Fe vs Te-Fi vs Fi-Te. The same function in a different slot can look very, very different.

You said you are pretty sure about your F being low in the stack, therefore is Ti-Fe or Te-Fi, being dom-inf or aux-tert. Do you see a wide gap between your T and F or do they work in harmony?

Just my 2c. Hope it helps!

Thanks for your input, and it's never too late. :D Also, I tried to really explain a lot in response to your ideas and questions, please feel free to only respond to my questions, I absolutely don't expect you to go through all of it point by point. If you just read this and comment a little, I'm already grateful for that.


This thing about being limbic is funny because I was always a calm type until this feely stuff came up. Def more limbic since then. But I'd like to get back to calm, and I'm getting there slowly. Definitely my goal to find some balance there. I'm still not totally limbic as far as it means focusing a lot on negative emotions, because I still don't like to do that. But yeah, I have seen more of the negative emotions than before. And I think I was attracted to pretty limbic NF types before, lol.

That it's both Ni and Fi, that's interesting too. I also thought it sounds a lot like that, some INFx thing at least. The thing is, I don't really willingly enter into this, it's not a conscious thing for me to do it like that. And I mean that for the whole "INFx mode" so both for the Ni thingy and Fi thingy. When I thought of Ni+Fi, I mean, I don't see how it would be Ni+Fe if it is so much going in myself. I also thought maybe it's like INFP the most though... and then it's not really Ni, but just having more of a focus on "inner life" overall. But I didn't decide if it is INFP or INFJ more.

I do want to add that I'm not really consciously trying to figure out my inner emotional state. The emotions just come on their own eventually. Until then I'm just simply looking internally but I don't see emotions. I maybe have some doom too but I don't easily notice the doom even. I'm just looking inside for something. And when the emotions do come is when I can finally get out of my head and start seeing some action plan. I mean I first just try not to drown in the intense emotions and try to keep my head screwed on, and then at one point I have enough and then I do make a decision and the action plan and come out of my head and all the internal stuff, all the INFx stuff. I do not have a tolerance for long for the emotions going on, especially if negative (positive is a bit better), so I get to this point of decisiveness soon, idk, maybe after 30 minutes, 60 minutes tops. I once tried to stay with them for a full 1.5 hours and that was quite the hard workout. lol. (I used a therapy exercise to try and stay with them)

Did this make sense?


I have a question: how would Se action differ from Te action?


You asked about whether I relate to J: if my liking to be decisive is J, that works, yes, I don't often plan in detail though. I also said in my newest questionnaire answers a couple posts above that I'm 50% very organised, 50% very disorganised or at least that is how I see myself. Why I say I'm very disorganised for 50% of the time is for two reasons: I'm either very unsatisfied with the level of organisation (so disorganised), or I just don't even focus on it because I'm more focused on getting to a goal of mine. And the organised 50%: I'll still go for the goal but I also keep some focus on organising too in those cases. It really depends on the goal too. Or sometimes I really am just ok with chilling out and just sorting out organisation of things (not so active or goals focused then).

Edit: And I'd liek to add... My approach to obligations since I've just had a strong conflict about this with someone. So my approach here is again kind of ....not so black and white but... So basically, I'm fine with obligations but I always do feel the same way about obligations as about organisation and just about consistency overall. That 50% of the time it's so natural and then 50% of the time it just feels slightly forced and I have to really force myself sometimes to stay with it, um I definitely need at least a bit of extra effort to keep consistent, keep obligations, deadlines, whatnot, .... It's like 50% of the time it's natural, 45% of the time it's a little extra effort to force on myself and 5% of the time it's a lot of effort (these numbers are NOT exact). .... And then where I had the conflict now, it was with someone who just totally freaks out at the idea of putting on an obligation that requires consistency. She must be full P. I don't freak out but like I said it can require effort to keep consistent. When it really is important I actually take pride in keeping consistent and put in the effort even through hell and all kinds of challenges to keep on track, meet the obligation, ..... Of course, don't get me wrong. There is always something in it for me too, or I would not be so committed. But yes, commitment is important, no question about that. And I figured out I can't stand people who care about it less than I do. At least I cannot be close to any such person.

I would however say if we look at my sense of self, my self-image, achievement, goals and challenges, that stuff is what was first part of my conscious self-image. Commitment, consistency, obligations ,.... this sort of stuff I really warmed up to over time, originally was less part of my conscious self-image. But it is now, and I take pride in these things just as much now, if that's even possible to say. Because, achievement with challenges really is #1 for me in some way. and I don't see that changing.

One more edit: I think, as long as the organisation and obligations and whatnot are totally aligned with my goals or "what is in it" for me, I think it's more natural, and not forced. It's hard to explain this.

I hope this made sense, let me know.


As for your question on T vs F: loool, what does it even mean for Thinking and Feeling to work in harmony? I think I've been trying to get there though. Because I do like it when they are aligned like that, because then I can sometimes decrease stress or avoid wasting time on certain things and the like. But yeah, previously I was always just like, I ignored emotional stuff, or it was just there in the background without me really noticing. I just wasn't paying any attention. I especially ignored personal feelings. I've understood them more since then but it'll never be natural for me. Specifically if this counts for anything: I'm ok with emotions as long as they stay in the background with me not paying direct attention to them. I have low tolerance for keeping them in foreground. 30 minutes is already an eternity for that, seriously. What's normal for me is having them for a few minutes at a time at most. And what I definitely don't like is having the emotion stuck internally in me. I want it either released somehow or I want it to go away. I don't like to be filled with emotion inside for long. I mean even if intense...it can be fun but then it gets too much and it needs to go away (release or remove somehow). Overall I just keep saying, oh my logic and my emotions could be better friends. lol. But yeah, it's a lot of hiccups there.

So I think overall I would say I perceive a big gap between Thinking and Feeling. Especially when it comes to these internal emotional states, which you and others do call Fi. And my Thinking is pretty goal oriented by default, yes if you want to call that Te, though it's analytical too. I would not say I'm totally goal oriented without analysis 24/7, I'd feel that's too shallow. I can be like that half of the time and the other half of the time I want analysis and details, not just goals to achieve.

How do you interpret this for type?


PS: I edited some of this. And I would want to add, I'd be interested in whether ESTJ and ESTP can be analytical all that much. Like I am half of the time.
 

Meowcat

New member
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
209
[MENTION=39622]ThisName[/MENTION] here we go with the questionnaire you mentioned:)



Self-Preservation (Need to protect and preserve)

1. Do you tend to save money and are cautious about spending it?

I automatically default to that, but then I decide what big thing is worth to spend on and I will spend a lot then.

2. Are you security oriented? Ready to protect yourself, those close to you and your resources?

I never think of the word "security" if that counts. I'm ready to protect myself and others though yeah.

3. Are you fairly consistent? Like things known and regular? No big changes?

I overdo trying to be consistent, I just put an extra burden on myself with that lool but yeah I do do that. I don't LIKE things known and regular, they just ARE, are NORMAL. I derive no enjoyment or "like" them. They are just a normal background. I do not have a problem with big changes as long as it's not like me losing everything.

4. Do you dislike taking big risks unless it's a "sure" thing?

Not that simple - I decide if I will jump in or not.

5. Are you fairly private? Not revealing too much to strangers?

Sure

6. Do you tend to be introverted?

Socially yes.

7. Do you understand money? Securities? Investments?

I'm okay with this when I pay attention. Not the first topic that comes to my mind

8. Do you tend to plan for the future? Ready for emergencies?

No

9. Are you concerned about health? Safety? Comfort? Home? Hearth?

Not too much. I never understood the people who go overboard with this

10. Are you worried about what may go wrong? Tend to imagine worse case scenarios?

No and it would piss me off very much if I started to imagine things like that. Doesn't fit my self-image. I'm more actions focused than this, thanks.

11. Do you like things spelled out? Details? Exact information? Guarantees?

I like details in some things yeah. Guarantees uh? For like an insurance policy or what?

12. In relationships do you take care of others financially?

Yes if I can contribute that way I'm glad to



Social (Need for Social Validation) - Can show up with strong focus on groups, organizations, family, world, friends, your surroundings, your social image

1. Do you need or really like social validation?

No

2. Is social image important to you?

In some aspects yes. Like, social status, yes.

3. Do you have desires/fantasies of being rewarded in a social or public arena?

Not often
But I do like social status, prestige things

4. Do you think about your affect on others, groups, organizations, and the world?

Not often

5. Is it very important to you to look good in public, groups, work, and the world? Is name recognition important, either yours or others?

Social status...

I don't often think about outright fame though and it's weird too

6. Are you upset if you don't get enough validation, reward for the hard and creative work you do in a social context or for a social cause?

Not sure

7. Are you involved in groups, organizations and team oriented activities?

Sometimes but eh

8. Is belonging to special groups or being a leader of a group important to you?

Maybe

9. Are you strongly upset if you feel not included or rejected by a group or family or not invited to a social event?

If it's people I care about then yes very much

10. Do you make your money through your association with groups affecting a large number of people?

I mean that happened before that I affected a large number of people but not sure if I understood this question

11. Do you get really upset if you make a social faux pas? Do you think about and plan out how you will be or present yourself in public?

I try not to make basic social faux pas stuff. And no I don't plan for the future

12. Are you the social instigator and connector in your family?

No lol



Relationship (Need for 1 to 1 or Relationship Closeness)

1. Do you define yourself through a romantic or close partnership? Is closeness with another person of paramount importance?

I'd like to

2. Do you like intense energy, particularly in relating to people? Are you energized when you have a revealing conversation or engagement with another, particularly a special other?

Yes!

3. Do you tend to focus more attention on close relationships than money?

They are incompatible with each other, I find.

4. Does money relate to how a partner will see you more than security for yourself?

Yes though I've started to care about the security aspect too as some secondary but important thing but I never did before...

5. Are money and resources less for self and more to please an intimate other?

I mean, in theory yes, in practice no I didn't get that lucky
VERY big discrepancy ...

6. Does your attention go more to how well you relate to a partner or potential partner than to other concerns?

Idk see previous question

7. Would others describe you as dramatic? Do you like to go deep with things?

I've been called dramatic and then I'm like o_O I really am socially introverted.

But yeah I like to go deep. Would be good in all senses of the word heh

8. Do you tend to be in the moment and not think as much about the future or your future security?

Right
But like I said that's changing a tiny bit
It's weird it's hardly myself sometimes

9. Do you have an urge to merge? Do you "lose yourself" with an important other at times?

I like that but I just get burnt

10. Do you like risk taking? New experiences? Tend to get bored without enough stimulation particularly in the area of relationships?

I don't like all risks, I mean in a bad mood it's more likely I'll take some extra little risk (little to me, BIG to others loool). New experiences are okay. The last q: yeah ..... I will not be with someone again who doesn't give emotional stimulation

11. Are you focused more on connection with another and forget your own priorities?

: (

12. Do you focus a lot on sexuality, romantic fantasies or mystical spiritual experiences?

I'm not good at spiritual stuff lol but all this sounds cool af together lol

I mean sex is okay yeah, the mystical spiritual stuff I don't think of by default esp to mix them lol
 

Meowcat

New member
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
209
[MENTION=32874]Vendrah[/MENTION] you wrote this in another type thread to someone else: "When you talk about ambitions, you really give a ENTJ type 8 vibe. I dont know if big ambitions is really an SP things unless ESTP."

What is ENTJ vs ESTP ambition like in your opinion, and why or how is the ESTP the only SP that can have big ambition? What kind of big ambitions?

Also, how would you see ESTJ in terms of ambition?

Thanks for any response.
 

mancino

Enlightened!
Joined
Jan 19, 2020
Messages
125
MBTI Type
NFJ
Thanks for your input, and it's never too late. :D Also, I tried to really explain a lot in response to your ideas and questions, please feel free to only respond to my questions, I absolutely don't expect you to go through all of it point by point. If you just read this and comment a little, I'm already grateful for that.


This thing about being limbic is funny because I was always a calm type until this feely stuff came up. Def more limbic since then. But I'd like to get back to calm, and I'm getting there slowly. Definitely my goal to find some balance there. I'm still not totally limbic as far as it means focusing a lot on negative emotions, because I still don't like to do that. But yeah, I have seen more of the negative emotions than before. And I think I was attracted to pretty limbic NF types before, lol.

That it's both Ni and Fi, that's interesting too. I also thought it sounds a lot like that, some INFx thing at least. The thing is, I don't really willingly enter into this, it's not a conscious thing for me to do it like that. And I mean that for the whole "INFx mode" so both for the Ni thingy and Fi thingy. When I thought of Ni+Fi, I mean, I don't see how it would be Ni+Fe if it is so much going in myself. I also thought maybe it's like INFP the most though... and then it's not really Ni, but just having more of a focus on "inner life" overall. But I didn't decide if it is INFP or INFJ more.

I do want to add that I'm not really consciously trying to figure out my inner emotional state. The emotions just come on their own eventually. Until then I'm just simply looking internally but I don't see emotions. I maybe have some doom too but I don't easily notice the doom even. I'm just looking inside for something. And when the emotions do come is when I can finally get out of my head and start seeing some action plan. I mean I first just try not to drown in the intense emotions and try to keep my head screwed on, and then at one point I have enough and then I do make a decision and the action plan and come out of my head and all the internal stuff, all the INFx stuff. I do not have a tolerance for long for the emotions going on, especially if negative (positive is a bit better), so I get to this point of decisiveness soon, idk, maybe after 30 minutes, 60 minutes tops. I once tried to stay with them for a full 1.5 hours and that was quite the hard workout. lol. (I used a therapy exercise to try and stay with them)

Did this make sense?


I have a question: how would Se action differ from Te action?


You asked about whether I relate to J: if my liking to be decisive is J, that works, yes, I don't often plan in detail though. I also said in my newest questionnaire answers a couple posts above that I'm 50% very organised, 50% very disorganised or at least that is how I see myself. Why I say I'm very disorganised for 50% of the time is for two reasons: I'm either very unsatisfied with the level of organisation (so disorganised), or I just don't even focus on it because I'm more focused on getting to a goal of mine. And the organised 50%: I'll still go for the goal but I also keep some focus on organising too in those cases. It really depends on the goal too. Or sometimes I really am just ok with chilling out and just sorting out organisation of things (not so active or goals focused then).

Edit: And I'd liek to add... My approach to obligations since I've just had a strong conflict about this with someone. So my approach here is again kind of ....not so black and white but... So basically, I'm fine with obligations but I always do feel the same way about obligations as about organisation and just about consistency overall. That 50% of the time it's so natural and then 50% of the time it just feels slightly forced and I have to really force myself sometimes to stay with it, um I definitely need at least a bit of extra effort to keep consistent, keep obligations, deadlines, whatnot, .... It's like 50% of the time it's natural, 45% of the time it's a little extra effort to force on myself and 5% of the time it's a lot of effort (these numbers are NOT exact). .... And then where I had the conflict now, it was with someone who just totally freaks out at the idea of putting on an obligation that requires consistency. She must be full P. I don't freak out but like I said it can require effort to keep consistent. When it really is important I actually take pride in keeping consistent and put in the effort even through hell and all kinds of challenges to keep on track, meet the obligation, ..... Of course, don't get me wrong. There is always something in it for me too, or I would not be so committed. But yes, commitment is important, no question about that. And I figured out I can't stand people who care about it less than I do. At least I cannot be close to any such person.

I would however say if we look at my sense of self, my self-image, achievement, goals and challenges, that stuff is what was first part of my conscious self-image. Commitment, consistency, obligations ,.... this sort of stuff I really warmed up to over time, originally was less part of my conscious self-image. But it is now, and I take pride in these things just as much now, if that's even possible to say. Because, achievement with challenges really is #1 for me in some way. and I don't see that changing.

One more edit: I think, as long as the organisation and obligations and whatnot are totally aligned with my goals or "what is in it" for me, I think it's more natural, and not forced. It's hard to explain this.

I hope this made sense, let me know.


As for your question on T vs F: loool, what does it even mean for Thinking and Feeling to work in harmony? I think I've been trying to get there though. Because I do like it when they are aligned like that, because then I can sometimes decrease stress or avoid wasting time on certain things and the like. But yeah, previously I was always just like, I ignored emotional stuff, or it was just there in the background without me really noticing. I just wasn't paying any attention. I especially ignored personal feelings. I've understood them more since then but it'll never be natural for me. Specifically if this counts for anything: I'm ok with emotions as long as they stay in the background with me not paying direct attention to them. I have low tolerance for keeping them in foreground. 30 minutes is already an eternity for that, seriously. What's normal for me is having them for a few minutes at a time at most. And what I definitely don't like is having the emotion stuck internally in me. I want it either released somehow or I want it to go away. I don't like to be filled with emotion inside for long. I mean even if intense...it can be fun but then it gets too much and it needs to go away (release or remove somehow). Overall I just keep saying, oh my logic and my emotions could be better friends. lol. But yeah, it's a lot of hiccups there.

So I think overall I would say I perceive a big gap between Thinking and Feeling. Especially when it comes to these internal emotional states, which you and others do call Fi. And my Thinking is pretty goal oriented by default, yes if you want to call that Te, though it's analytical too. I would not say I'm totally goal oriented without analysis 24/7, I'd feel that's too shallow. I can be like that half of the time and the other half of the time I want analysis and details, not just goals to achieve.

How do you interpret this for type?


PS: I edited some of this. And I would want to add, I'd be interested in whether ESTJ and ESTP can be analytical all that much. Like I am half of the time.


I don't know about your type, but the above post is textbook Te-speak! Goals, goals, goals, concrete, to the point, no frills no fuzz.

I said INTJ, now I add ENTJ and ESTJ; you sound very decisive to me. The big gap between T and F would be consistent for a Te-dom, Fi-inferior type. Also the way you describe your dealing with emotion reminds me of a ESTJ friend of mine, uber-Te approach to F.

Not seeing a big difference between Te action and Se action gives points to ENTJ.
 

Meowcat

New member
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
209
I don't know about your type, but the above post is textbook Te-speak! Goals, goals, goals, concrete, to the point, no frills no fuzz.

I said INTJ, now I add ENTJ and ESTJ; you sound very decisive to me. The big gap between T and F would be consistent for a Te-dom, Fi-inferior type. Also the way you describe your dealing with emotion reminds me of a ESTJ friend of mine, uber-Te approach to F.

Not seeing a big difference between Te action and Se action gives points to ENTJ.

Thanks for the input again. :)

I have considered ESTJ too, yeah but I'm not sure I'm focused enough on competence of people for that. Or that thing where I admitted my self-image is more about challenges than about obligation, though that too finally. I'm not saying that any of has to exclude ESTJ tho'.

Mind putting into words more the "uber-Te approach to F"? Do you mean this whole focus on making an action plan to get ahead? Or anything else?

To be clear, I didn't say I don't see a difference between Te/Se action, I am just interested in how you see that difference, would you be okay with elaborating on it?

And yes I'm ok with being decisive. I read decision-making can drain you but it never drains me like that. I'm very decisive in...yeah you guessed right, in 50% of the time. : p The other 50% I'm more analytical.


EDIT: Also childhood stuff. Like you mentioned in your own type thread. In kindergarten, I know I was usually calm and just observant of things, the other kids etc around me. I'd be engaged with tasks given, try to do well, or I'd just play. At age 7-10 then, I was getting more argumentative and disagreeable. That would be the main difference to how I was at age 5 in kindergarten. I was overall still calm especially in class engaged with the tasks there, but sometimes yes I would get argumentative, aggressive (physically too sometimes), outside class mainly.

So ... it sounds like an introverted function more, though I was definitely focused on the external world around me, but engaging with it was secondary for me unless the whole thing with tasks and playing counts as engaging with the world around me... but with people, social engagement was deffffinitely secondary. As for the introverted function, it definitely wasn't Fi, lol, because I was unemotional enough. And then in school at age 7-10, it was a bit more extraverted if that counts.
 

mancino

Enlightened!
Joined
Jan 19, 2020
Messages
125
MBTI Type
NFJ
[MENTION=39881]Meowcat[/MENTION] , I'm very late with my answer, but I owe you some more feedback.

I do want to add that I'm not really consciously trying to figure out my inner emotional state. The emotions just come on their own eventually. Until then I'm just simply looking internally but I don't see emotions. I maybe have some doom too but I don't easily notice the doom even. I'm just looking inside for something. And when the emotions do come is when I can finally get out of my head and start seeing some action plan. I mean I first just try not to drown in the intense emotions and try to keep my head screwed on, and then at one point I have enough and then I do make a decision and the action plan and come out of my head and all the internal stuff, all the INFx stuff. I do not have a tolerance for long for the emotions going on, especially if negative (positive is a bit better), so I get to this point of decisiveness soon, idk, maybe after 30 minutes, 60 minutes tops. I once tried to stay with them for a full 1.5 hours and that was quite the hard workout. lol. (I used a therapy exercise to try and stay with them)

This is the extract from your previous post that gave me the Uber-Te gut feeling. It sounds like full-blown rational approach to irrationality.

About Te-Se, it's the common combo for ENTJ: clear goals, action in the moment (backed by Ni vision); you see it also in other types that can use one of the two as reversed auxiliary (6th function in socionics): ENTJ using Te+S aux, or ENTP using Se+T aux. I don't think you find this combo in any other types. They could use Te or Se but not both at the same time, so they are not as decisive and effective. Your description of common behaviour, decisiveness and so on, reminds me of this combo. Pretty much like two friends of mine, one ESTJ and the other ENTJ. They could have written what you wrote.

Also childhood stuff. Like you mentioned in your own type thread. In kindergarten, I know I was usually calm and just observant of things, the other kids etc around me. I'd be engaged with tasks given, try to do well, or I'd just play. At age 7-10 then, I was getting more argumentative and disagreeable. That would be the main difference to how I was at age 5 in kindergarten. I was overall still calm especially in class engaged with the tasks there, but sometimes yes I would get argumentative, aggressive (physically too sometimes), outside class mainly.

So ... it sounds like an introverted function more, though I was definitely focused on the external world around me, but engaging with it was secondary for me unless the whole thing with tasks and playing counts as engaging with the world around me... but with people, social engagement was deffffinitely secondary. As for the introverted function, it definitely wasn't Fi, lol, because I was unemotional enough. And then in school at age 7-10, it was a bit more extraverted if that counts.

(bolding is mine) Definitely compatible with Te-dom, doing stuff, not worring too much about people, ideas, fun o boreness... just being a doer. I mean, surely there was a lot more, but I still see you a a Te-dom.

How do you relate with the abstract? Theories, art, patterns... Do you see more as ENTJ or ESTJ? Are your action more oriented to the here-and-now, or to some larger-than-life plan?
 

Meowcat

New member
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
209
[MENTION=39881]Meowcat[/MENTION] , I'm very late with my answer, but I owe you some more feedback.

That's OK and thanks for your input again. :)


This is the extract from your previous post that gave me the Uber-Te gut feeling. It sounds like full-blown rational approach to irrationality.

Ha yeah, I think I know what you mean. Like I want tight control over all of it yeah? Like I try to break down all the emotion thingies analytically to keep it all fully under control. Though I can also just plain control them "as is". Actually yeah, I either break them down or just perceive them and then control them. I break them down when I am more uncomfortable with them because they are too intense for the plain direct control if that made sense... Tbh the latter feels more natural because it's just easier, takes less time, I feel more powerful with it without having to entirely kill the emotion by breaking it down, idk... Anger is where I'm unwilling to break it down lol. That's a big exception. Also, plain enjoyment&excitement, I refuse to break that down either.


About Te-Se, it's the common combo for ENTJ: clear goals, action in the moment (backed by Ni vision); you see it also in other types that can use one of the two as reversed auxiliary (6th function in socionics): ENTJ using Te+S aux, or ENTP using Se+T aux. I don't think you find this combo in any other types. They could use Te or Se but not both at the same time, so they are not as decisive and effective. Your description of common behaviour, decisiveness and so on, reminds me of this combo. Pretty much like two friends of mine, one ESTJ and the other ENTJ. They could have written what you wrote.

I was following you until you got to "Ni vision" looool. I mean what I have I don't think it deserves to be called "backed by Ni vision". I instead just want something and see it envisioned for a second but not really fleshed out or anything. And then I just pursue it even for years if I need to, i.e. if it takes that long to get there... that happened before. But just like twice in my life so far and thinking of one of them now makes me feel depressed so lol let's move on from that.

So yeah it's very motivating if I have that "vision" but it's not often like the above.

But yeah, "clear goals, action in the moment" I like that sortof stuff. Clear goal like I know what I concretely want, and it's achievable in reality. That's easier than the above but the above is extra motivating

So yeah I would say that when I said I'm 50% of the time very decisive then it's just like what you described here!! : p

And the other 50% I'm analytical and not (or not yet) needing to do a decision. Because there is no impulse or immediate circumstance requiring a decision or I'm just not impatient to do so.



(bolding is mine) Definitely compatible with Te-dom, doing stuff, not worring too much about people, ideas, fun o boreness... just being a doer. I mean, surely there was a lot more, but I still see you a a Te-dom.

Oh I had fun when playing, but I did not have many friends, just a few, we could have fun tho sure. Like any other kid I figure. I wasn't worried about being bored, that's true.

When I said engaging was secondary I meant I saw myself as primarily observant of stuff. If looking back to the memories of how I was then. I still kinda have this but I do like action a lot yeah.


How do you relate with the abstract? Theories, art, patterns... Do you see more as ENTJ or ESTJ? Are your action more oriented to the here-and-now, or to some larger-than-life plan?

Sorry if I wasn't clear before, I will openly admit that there's no way in hell I'd be an ENTJ, I'm not a visionary type at all. I'm way more in the here and now. The abstract is less easy for me but I don't like to say that because I'm willing to put in the effort to deal with the abstract, if I need to, like at university and stuff. But I do want it to have a point, really. Or if someone else talks about abstract stuff and I like the person and it doesn't look like complete bullshit I will try to follow then too.

With all the grip stuff I described above though I can have some inspired visionary moments looool, they don't actually amount to anything tho LOL.
 

mancino

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[MENTION=39881]Meowcat[/MENTION] , the more I read from you, the more you sound like my ESTJ male friend.

He's very bright, goal-oriented, decisive. He's got a talent for math, physics and engineering. He's a great organizer and an effective project manager and account manager.

He's not blunt or rude or anything, he loves his wife and two kids. But abstractions, philosophical discussions, novel ideas... not from him! If there's no concrete point in it, he's not interested.

He's the most reliable and effective person I know. He can have a mild sentimental streak from time to time, but in a typical Si-style melancholy. He misses the ol' good times. You know, it's because he's in his forties. But never softie, never! A guy HAS to be tough. We used to call him "stone heart", like that, in english.

Do you relate?
 

Meowcat

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[MENTION=39881]Meowcat[/MENTION] , the more I read from you, the more you sound like my ESTJ male friend.

He's very bright, goal-oriented, decisive. He's got a talent for math, physics and engineering. He's a great organizer and an effective project manager and account manager.

He's not blunt or rude or anything, he loves his wife and two kids. But abstractions, philosophical discussions, novel ideas... not from him! If there's no concrete point in it, he's not interested.

He's the most reliable and effective person I know. He can have a mild sentimental streak from time to time, but in a typical Si-style melancholy. He misses the ol' good times. You know, it's because he's in his forties. But never softie, never! A guy HAS to be tough. We used to call him "stone heart", like that, in english.

Do you relate?

lol I'm a woman but definitely true that I don't pay attention to soft feelz like I said in my questionnaire too above lol... I prefer to be tough yeah. I'm virtually never melancholic or sentimental either though. That's part of the soft stuff for me really. ... And I don't miss the past, it drains me to think of the past. I'm not in my 40s tho yet lol, I mean I'm closer to 40 than 30 damn, but no I'm not like your friend with this.

Also I'm not the most consistent person out there even tho I'd like to be...but I do try to be very reliable for the important things. Like for people I do care about and hard deadlines and the like are important. But I think that's basics really for anyone.

Physics and engineering or mechanics stuff: I don't have a strong affinity for this stuff... I'm decent if I spend time on it but not interested beyond doing it if I have to. An ex boyfriend tho had the affinity&talent for this totally. But I'm a woman anyway... so I'm not really expected to be able to fix the plumbing at home lol. I was very good at mathematics though in school.

Anyway no ...... if you tried to describe me with "organisation, management" that would only get half of me. It would ignore the other half of my person. Which is my being about challenges and not necessarily terribly organised... I feel very disorganised half of the time. I do like project management stuff though.

You got it right about how I don't care much about novel ideas lol. I like some philosophy but most of philosophy just doesn't relate to reality in the right way at all. Otherwise I don't spend a lot of time on the abstract like I said though the "NF grips" do make me focus on insights and stuff

***

All in all: the thing about the past and being always fully organised isn't me. But yes I'm goal oriented most of the time (more than half of the time for this one lol). I mean in recent years I was stuck in the past due to personal losses but that was without even noticing because I don't like to go into memories. Like I said it drains me, even if it is good memories. I don't get sentimental either, I just feel like throwing up if I think of all that.

How is your friend with challenges? Does he like that or does he only like his routine or something?
 

Vendrah

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[MENTION=32874]Vendrah[/MENTION] you wrote this in another type thread to someone else: "When you talk about ambitions, you really give a ENTJ type 8 vibe. I dont know if big ambitions is really an SP things unless ESTP."

What is ENTJ vs ESTP ambition like in your opinion, and why or how is the ESTP the only SP that can have big ambition? What kind of big ambitions?

Also, how would you see ESTJ in terms of ambition?

Thanks for any response.

Problem is, I already more or less forgot why I said that, but I do have some idea. Also, theres no direct stats for ambition in MBTI, most of it is my deduction based on other related information.

As I said somewhere else, I have trouble confusing 8 and 3 types, but, well, about SPs...
ISFPs are the less type likely to lead and have ambitions, thats a deduction from truity:
ISFPs(truity):
"In college, likely to report low levels of assertiveness"
"Underrepresented among MBA students and small business owners"
Assertiveness in big 5 refers to wanting to lead a group, measures the interest in leading. ISFP has the lowest level of all types into that. I already read somewhere that ISFP is the most likely type to be a follower rather than a leader.

The thing for ESFP and ISTP changes a little bit although. MBTI statistics are mostly smoothy... Meaning that for most stats and characteristic you find in one type is true/close to at least one of possible cousins.

In enneagram table...

1200px-MBTI_and_Enneagram_3.png


I may have some hard time arguing this, but I dont think that any MBTI type which distribuition in types 3 or 8 are very low should not be ambitious. By that, I would say that ESFP are rarely ambitious although ESFP people usually tends to hang out with a lot of other extraverts which demands them to care about their popularity, however that doesnt make themselves ambitious.

ISTP is kind of different, I cant really create a strong reasoning for why ISTP is not much ambitious at all, but I do think it is.

The picture for ESTP is really different. First, ESTP has lots of 3s and 8s in enneagram. Also, truity again on ESTP:
"One of four types reporting highest levels of assertiveness in college"
In other words, in terms of assertiveness, ESTP/ISFP are kind of opposites. ESTP tends to lead, ISFPs tends to follow. Thats why I said that big ambitions is not a SP thing unless ESTP (based on that data).

How different is the ambitions of an ESTP, ENTJ and ESTJ, and what kind of ambitions, is kind of a hard question to give a straight answer. There arent much stats on that, so I stick a lot to concepts, indirect stats and my own personal opinion.

ESTP ambitions should heavily rely on Se. Despite truity saying the opposite, ESTP is not considered one of the type to significantly open business (and even less for studying/being in business courses). The four types that significantly open business and join business courses are ENTJ, ESTJ, ISTJ and ENTP (it varies a little in some countries). ESTP kind of leading is not that much linked to business. Using stereotypes, i think its more related to sports, but not at all limited to that (perhaps ESTP could be the most common soccer captain type, I never read anything about that so its pure speculation of my own). I think that because of Se, ESTP leading is more about "driving" a team through an experience (sports related but not limited to), and ESTP ambitions should be more towards achievement linked on experiences, more about the experience itself rather than a specific and straight goal. I think that ESTP ambitions should be more driven towards having a blast experience in a competitive enviroment.

ENTJ and ESTJ are another different thing. These two are very similar in terms of ambitions in my opinion. First, both enterprenurs, both are very found in business courses and tends to get higher qualifications for business. Second, both Te and Fe are a lot oriented to and through social prestige (I have never find anything related on stats of that), I think of that because of original Jungs definition. Jungs description of a pure Fe type (Fe archetype) is a woman picking husbands and "loving" more their husbands based on their achievements. Jung on Fe and pure Fe-dom type:
"Feeling in the extraverted attitude is orientated by objective data, i.e. the object is the indispensable determinant of the kind of feeling."
" The personality appears to be adjusted in relation to objective conditions. Her feelings correspond with objective situations and general values. Nowhere is this more clearly revealed than in the so-called 'love-choice'; the 'suitable' man is loved, not another one; he is suitable not so much because he fully accords with the fundamental character of the woman -- as a rule she is quite uninformed about this -- but because [p. 449] he meticulously corresponds in standing, age, capacity, height, and family respectability with every reasonable requirement."

Despite Jung not mentioning that behaviour on Te, Te should be a lot prone to that as well, the only difference is that it is no longer using feelings, but rather thinking. Social prestige in Jung conception, at least on my interpretation, involves Te and Fe, or basically an extraverted-judging cognitive function (the extraverted Judging cognitive functions are Te and Fe). Here are some Te parts that suggests that as well:
"As a result of the general attitude of extraversion, thinking is orientated by the object and objective data."
However, when Jung follows he gives a completely different approach to Te and says about it scientifical and data aspects rather then social prestige, however in my own opinion Te still holds for high social prestige because its a judgy function oriented by the object/data. In that way, the ambitions of Te are linked and connected to social prestige (while for ESTP that should be more or less ignored), and one of the Te ambitions is connected into having some sort of general society recognition, either in form of money or some sort of recognized achievement. Thats either for ESTJ and ENTJ. What differentiates on that is that ESTJ is more connected to Jung original Te than ENTJ, so ESTJ is more or less purely described in terms of having a social prestige in some form, and that social prestige is connected to the goal. ENTJ is a little bit different although. Because of N function and partially because of Ni, the ENTJ ambitions might derail a little bit from social prestige.

In terms ENTJ/ESTP or rather EXTJ/ESTP ambitions, EXTJ "wants the trophie" to achieve some sort of societal recognition, more or less connected to some sort of status or number, and this societal recognition should be based on a recognized external judgement, while the ESTP should want to achieve for the sake of experience.

However, keep in my mind that five things...
First, Im not considering things like "my big ambition is to have a lot of love", or things like that, Im seeing ambitions in a different lens than that.
Second, there is always the important PS about how MBTI is constructed: Any type can have big ambitions, however in some types ambitions are common or very common and for other types they are uncommon and unlikely.
Third, Fe/Te are a lot prone to trends on the society, and that can be either quite darky or quite brighty (in my own country it is more darky than brighty). Te/Fe criterias of what is sucess/failure is based on what criterias are recognized by society, so if in the society being a hero is the prestigious thing, Te/Fe doms (and partially the auxs) will look for being the best hero in country or town, absorbing all heroic characteristics they can develop. Or the Te/Fe doms (and partially the auxs) can be in Hitler´s Nazi society and works toward the superior race and dedicating themselves into purifing the society from those impure jews, and things can get extremely dark on that. It pretty much depends on what society they are into (Fi and Ti, in other instance, operates more internal and are a lot more independent on the context and more dependent on the person psyche, I think...), and Te/Fe people are good into spreading the culture goods and bads.
Fourth, EXTJs and ExFJs are not entirely depending on that. Thats because pure Fe or pure Te types are quite rare and unrealistic, realistically other cognitive functions, sometimes even 3 or 4, have influences on that. I defend the idea that the function stacks are a lot personal, and because the preferences of each person is more or less unique (although they must obey to relations in order to be associated with a type) (there is also the enneagram role on that), meaning that the persons ambitions can have some variety and not all ESTJs, for example, have equal ambitions, but most of their ambitions should be similar.
And fifth, I dont like much these ambitions because I had bad experiences of other ambitions really playing a role into ruining my own life. Notice that objective social prestige requires that a small group of individuals needing to have significantly more of objective-something in "detriment" of the majority not having much, or in other lens, in order to have winners losers are requires (because the word "winner" has no meaning in the absent of the word "loser"). That objective-something in our society is usually, but in no way limited to, money, meaning that some of these ambitionary people can use other people to their ambitions and they need to not share their ambitions (because if the gains are way too spread, the social recognition reduces), although in statistics what I said in this phrase is not valid for FJ (but it is for TJ). And FJ doesnt equal Fe and TJ doesnt equal Fe, but stats for cognitive functions are near zero so sometimes we need to do the simplification of FJ=Fe and TJ=Te, but these arent equal (they are more or less equal). And yeah, I do have some bad experiences on that, and not having ambitions for me is not a negative trait, and people with too much ambitions make me very caution.

One more thing, it seems you want to be typed now? This topic didnt started with that... I havent read that much these last pages.
If you are considering EXTJ for you, have in mind that, if you are really putting a lot of or some sort of Fi-stuff on a diary and journaling it, that means that Fi should not be in the end of the cognitive function stack, meaning that EXTJ is unlikely for you (although ESTJ and ENTJ with significant Fi in the middle of the stack is possible, but quite unlikely, and most descriptions will describe these types as "Fi-tards").
 

Meowcat

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Problem is, I already more or less forgot why I said that, but I do have some idea. Also, theres no direct stats for ambition in MBTI, most of it is my deduction based on other related information.

Hey thanks for this really detailed answer. Really do appreciate you having put all that time into that:)

And yeah I'm open to hearing about type input. The whole inferior function and grip deal is part of type:)



OK I'll respond to some points too. As it relates to me. I got repetitive - stream of consciousness - so I bolded a part at the end for TLDR. And just bc it was like an aha moment too.

Uhmm... Yeah the whole business/entrepreneur thing for me it's like I'm more informal with doing business or entrepreneurship stuff. Like I really am not planned it just becomes a more serious thing, more money etc over time:). But I do like doing business in this way.

OK. The whole ambition thing the way you wrote about it. I really am less planned about it. The way you describe it...no I'm not THAT neatly socially oriented or whatever it is. Societal stuff IS important to me but not in that totally neat way.

But I do like specific and concrete goals. I like some of the social status/prestige/etc stuff just fine. Money too. I dunno maybe it's again like the business thing. It's played an important role in my life but it's not totally 100% planned or structured etc

The whole competitiveness stuff also YES as long as it doesn't start sounding too...idk, too dry lol. Like again same theme as above. But IDK if I'd say that it's about having a blast experience either umm... I plain go for the win. The having a blast experience is about the competition and even aggression yes, not about just fun experience or whatever, lol

So all in all I don't identify with "achieve for the sake of experience" .... no I achieve for the sake of... uh, winning, beating others (yes in part social status stuff), nontrivial challenges, ... I think that's what it is.

Where I have most wanted achievement and have worked the most towards it is the following: various competitions (anything really), either intellectual or sports, and also, ofc just the whole money and status thing. And then it's also plain just about owning things and enjoying them.

To clarify: When I talk about beating others I don't mean in a malicious way. To me it isn't personal or about demeaning others. But yeah I get very focused and aggressive about winning and I step on toes of people just fine for that. But then I apologise if it's like a team effort too or something where other people are relevant. Like I said it's not malicious at all !!

Here's an example of how "unchecked" my desire to win gets Lol, when awhile ago I once tried out gokart racing, I plain forgot to check where the brakes were. That resulted in a big crash when I was scheduled to stop. I did overtake everyone else though lol... And the experience was, just me going as hard as I could, and overtaking everyone. Yeah it couldve been sensory overload for more sensitive people lol the way I did all that, but I really wasn't just dallying around relaxed taking in the sensory details. My experience had these two elements only 1) go as hard as Ican (like, enjoy the speed, the going hard, the challenge but that's about it) 2) overtake others +1) bonus overtake them in a crazy "risky" and aggressive way loool as long as no one gets seriously injured it's all good fun. And I'm like that in other things too if I can.

So I don't understand how it works about "achieve for the sake of experience". Because I really am not about just enjoying the wind or the sunny day or whatever lol. I only do the above about winning and aggressive competition, that IS my experience that I go for. It really is a hard very intense sensory experience too but it's not ...not about plain enjoyment of the sensory details of smelling nice things, enjoying the gentle wind blah blah

I get really really superficial about the sensory things like I have a high stimulation threshold so I go this hard or whatever. I do the same with other things like I eat or drink a lot when I get down to it. Going hard there too and I enjoy that. It's not like what I read about SPs just plain enjoying nice fun stuff lol tho so this thingy you said about achieving for the experience just doesn't add up for me or I don't understand what exactly you mean.

So idk if that's Se. But Te/Fe either. Because "societal recognition" gets overly heavy too beyond a point. I never viewed myself as entirely part of the "system", lol.

Overall I don't think you'd call me overly ambitious but it's also weird af. Because I have some big ones (dreams or actual concrete goals too) and have achieved big things but I don't know, I don't go around talking in that idk, refined ambitious extremely well planned focused businessman way. That's why I don't think you'd see me as very ambitious. Or at least not very grandiose. I don't work to project an ambitious image like that. Did that make sense ??

(Which is also why while I found it very flattering that ENTJ was mentioned as an option for me....no I'm not ambitious in that way. :dry: Their ambition stuff is insanely cool but I'm not that type of ambitious.)


EDIT: Ok ok let me reanalyse this part. Bc I skipped too fast but I'm not going to delete any of the above bc it's relevant as is.

"ESTP leading is more about "driving" a team through an experience (sports related but not limited to), and ESTP ambitions should be more towards achievement linked on experiences, more about the experience itself rather than a specific and straight goal. I think that ESTP ambitions should be more driven towards having a blast experience in a competitive enviroment."

I'm reanalysing this because I liked the wording "having a blast experience in a competitive environment", only the "experience" word was off, otherwise this was seriously good. Ie: Having a blast in a competitive environment that's what it is for me!! That's NOT the only thing I have going for me bc not all my challenge stuff is physical, naah, but this too.

So the analysis,

1) I'm not doing much team stuff by default, it's rare but I have done it and it's enjoyable 2) Again I do like specific and straightforward concrete goals, I don't like life without them actually, if I don't have a concrete goal then I plain don't know what I want to be doing 3) Well yeah having a blast going hard for a win that works but there isn't a whole lot more "experience" beyond that just as above

I mean I do see what I'm doing, I do experience what I'm doing, but I don't have time to stop and smell the roses bc I'm focused on going hard. THAT'S IT that's why the "experience" phrasing is off for me. So you (or someone else) tell me what you think lol


EDIT2: And I think I keep forgetting that I don't just do plain fun experience bc I really don't have very many positive emotions either or haven't in a long time so when I'm about achieving and it relates to experiencing things it's rare that it's just plain fun stuff. Idk if that's type.



One more thing, it seems you want to be typed now? This topic didnt started with that... I havent read that much these last pages.
If you are considering EXTJ for you, have in mind that, if you are really putting a lot of or some sort of Fi-stuff on a diary and journaling it, that means that Fi should not be in the end of the cognitive function stack, meaning that EXTJ is unlikely for you (although ESTJ and ENTJ with significant Fi in the middle of the stack is possible, but quite unlikely, and most descriptions will describe these types as "Fi-tards").

So yeah I'm OK with getting typed.

I gotta warn you yeah the stuff I write in my journal does make me feel like I'm a Fi-tard just fine loool

Essentially it drains me af trying to Fi or trying to feel my feelz esp all the soft feelz Lol

And no "weak kinds of feelings" for me, thanks. ....

(Mainly not weak feelings of the kind where you completely lose your "can do" attitude and sink in self-pity or other similar shit. Or emotional dependence related feelings.)

Let alone putting a judgment of emotional/moral worth on the feelings (which is where it would become really Fi yeah?). That's hard too and often weird too

But I have actually found use in being able to feel some of my feelings even if not those weaker ones. It's just crazy hard to get to feel them

I think I mostly found use in them though in learning how to reject people fast enough and hard enough lol

Idk don't take me seriously when it comes to feelz. I'm still in a bad place too.


PS: Tbh looking at my journal right now I think the most frequently used words in it are "bullshit" and "fuck", not really Fi words :shock:

Tho that'd be a pretty bad representation of things if I did statistics of the most frequently used words. Because a lot of it is me trying to talk about internal mental stuff connecting (trying to) the dots, that has nothing to do with the most frequent words. : P

So yah Iguess I do venting too in it but the primary purpose is the connecting of those dots and make sense of internal emotions. And that's where people have been saying it's gotta be Fi.
 

Meowcat

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[MENTION=40271]mancino[/MENTION] So does your ESTJ friend like only routine or does he like to go for challenge just as much as routine tasks? And what is his competitiveness like? If you go by what Vendrah just wrote, does that describe him?

In my case (you don't have to read the long post I just wrote lol but if you are interested, please feel free to), my competitiveness is like, I think I go hard for the win than just fun, I forget the latter really easily in favour of the former.

Which is where I'm thinking that sounds like Te and J - even if I'm not totally structured and society oriented all the time - but I'm curious what your input is here based on your friend/other ESTJs.
 

Vendrah

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Im going to need to answer in a few days... Theres way too much stuff to be readen and then Ill try a type or see if I just agree with somebody that already typed.
 

Meowcat

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Im going to need to answer in a few days... Theres way too much stuff to be readen and then Ill try a type or see if I just agree with somebody that already typed.

No worries, feel free to take your time, as I did write a long post in response to you. I'll be curious about your thoughts regardless of whether you agree with others:).
 

Vendrah

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Ok, so....

The text is too big, no quotes, but I get that T is prevails more than F. You even reinforce that sometimes, your preference for T.
And I see the numerous passages of S and somewhat "strangerness" for some traits considered to be intuitive and sometimes way too "flyly"? Something like that.
So far xSTx, with no cognitive functions.

J/P really seem unclear through, so I jumpo to cognitive functions. In Si vs Se, things are that much clear, although I bet for Si. Te vs Ti, however, it goes clear more through Te in many passages, despite the preference for T I havent seen Ti much.

I/E is kind of tricky. My final answer would be XSTJ, and here are the aspects more close to ISTJ vs ESTJ, for me you are somewhat a middle between, although for a forced pick I would pick ISTJ:

Pro ISTJ
- Presence of Fi: Way too much Fi for ESTJ, but ISTJ having somewhat of a Fi is supposed to be more normal, not only on the fixed stacks but also as I have been observing.
- Questions: Despite some other people vision, most questions social-related were answered for you slightly on the Introverted side than on Extroverted side.

Con ISTJ
- Competitiveness: This one is odd. I dont actually know if ISTJs are normally competitive, if they can get competitive or not, but by type descriptions ISTJ should not be that much competitive. But perhaps not.

XSTJ: There are several points where you seem external oriented and in others more introspective, you started specially introspective in the beggining of the topic.
 

Meowcat

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Ok, so....

The text is too big, no quotes, but I get that T is prevails more than F. You even reinforce that sometimes, your preference for T.
And I see the numerous passages of S and somewhat "strangerness" for some traits considered to be intuitive and sometimes way too "flyly"? Something like that.
So far xSTx, with no cognitive functions.

J/P really seem unclear through, so I jumpo to cognitive functions. In Si vs Se, things are that much clear, although I bet for Si. Te vs Ti, however, it goes clear more through Te in many passages, despite the preference for T I havent seen Ti much.

I/E is kind of tricky. My final answer would be XSTJ, and here are the aspects more close to ISTJ vs ESTJ, for me you are somewhat a middle between, although for a forced pick I would pick ISTJ:

Pro ISTJ
- Presence of Fi: Way too much Fi for ESTJ, but ISTJ having somewhat of a Fi is supposed to be more normal, not only on the fixed stacks but also as I have been observing.
- Questions: Despite some other people vision, most questions social-related were answered for you slightly on the Introverted side than on Extroverted side.

Con ISTJ
- Competitiveness: This one is odd. I dont actually know if ISTJs are normally competitive, if they can get competitive or not, but by type descriptions ISTJ should not be that much competitive. But perhaps not.

XSTJ: There are several points where you seem external oriented and in others more introspective, you started specially introspective in the beggining of the topic.

Thanks for your analysis, what made you pick Si over Se?

What have you seen as "too much" Fi? (In terms of too much for inferior Fi)
 

Vendrah

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Thanks for your analysis, what made you pick Si over Se?

What have you seen as "too much" Fi? (In terms of too much for inferior Fi)

Just to fit STJ, actually, I think that Se=Si in your case.
 
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