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  1. #1
    Junior Member Melly382's Avatar
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    Default Exploring my Enneagram type! I am considering 4, 6 and 9

    Hello everyone,

    I started by responding to one of the questionnaires, but I feel like they don't touch on or help clarify my real sources of confusion in the end. So please enjoy (hah) the following wall of text in which I attempt to lay out some of the reasons for why I am considering each type! Thanks ahead of time to anyone who is willing to wade into this and provide me with feedback.

    Disclaimer: I'm sure I have many misconceptions about Enneagram types so please be patient and feel free to ask me any questions you think would help clarify things!


    Type 4:
    I've considered myself a 4 for many years now and only started to question it as an adult because I view myself as being much more practical and emotionally level than most portraits of 4 lead me to believe.
    A) In the past, I would have strongly identified with the need to believe and be seen as unique, especially as a way to preserve a sense of self-worth when I felt rejected and bullied by peers. I was practically a loner in high school from my point of view, but that was okay because I had qualities that just weren't valued by the peer groups I was rejected by. I felt disdain for others.

    B) A desire to wallow in emotional intensity, usually via intense daydreaming and fantasizing (primarily as a kid through mid-20s); I used to lay around daydreaming and spent quite a lot of time journaling about my emotions and drawing my fantasies. I enjoy melancholic/sad things and don't find it at all upsetting to consume music/stories that are steeped in it. Most of my favorite pieces of music of tinged with a sense of longing or sadness.

    C) Struggling with envy for the qualities of others that (in my mind) made them 1000 times more likeable/acceptable/attractive than myself. I've often felt like I lacked something that would enable me to participate in the world and relationships as easily as everyone else. In the past, the people I've been most envious of are often the people i've been closest to/merged with. This is mostly true of female friends (I am female). While I still experience envy, I don't feel worthless or self-hating by comparison to others as an adult.

    D) I place a lot of value in my feelings. I pay attention to and listen to how I feel for the most part. When I've done something and had to explain myself to someone else, I feel that the way I "felt" was a legitimate explanation for doing that thing regardless of whether it was right or not. And I usually allow myself to indulge in whatever emotional state occurs as long as it doesn't strike me as unhealthy.

    E) I also have a strong need to be authentically "me," and for that core of "me" to be recognized, though I feel that most people don't really have a pulse on "me." Nothing upsets me like feeling that I am fundamentally misunderstood by someone. I feel a sense of anger when I feel like I am being misrepresented in someone else's description of me. It doesn't even have to be negative to be bothersome.

    I've started to move away from considering 4 lately because I do not find myself wallowing in extreme emotional states frequently anymore, I don't struggle with envy nearly as often. Even if I do struggle with it occasionally, it's easy to avoid the emotional sting of being lesser by comparison and resenting/worshiping that other person as a result.

    Type 6:
    A) I've never been diagnosed with anything like generalized anxiety disorder, but I have noticed a pretty constant buzz of fear in the background of my life. That fear is not necessarily of anything specific, although I do find plenty of things to worry about and am often keeping a running tally of things I need to do/think about/be concerned about. I often think about something that has been on my to-do list with a sudden jolt of fear, even if taking care of that thing is 100% on schedule and it will probably all work out. I am still nervous about its existence, and its importance, and the potential threat that messing it up or forgetting it presents. Those little jolts of fear keep me motivated to handle the urgent things that I need to (but only up to a point).

    B) I identify with the fear of losing support, though I cannot figure out if what I experience is the 6's fear of losing support, or the 9's fear of separation/loss. I often worry about what I will do when I lose my mom. I think "who will love me then? Who can I rely on to be in my corner? Who else will be there to unconditionally love me and keep an eye on my well-being?" Breakups are hard for me, I often feel adrift after losing a partner, even if they are still in my life somehow. After a breakup, I know I will never have the same value that I had to that person so I can no longer rely on them to look out for me. I think I would feel very untethered to life if I didn't have the surety that someone out there is invested in me.

    C) I've also encountered the idea that 6's have a hard time making decisions or reaching conclusions that they feel confident about. I strongly identify with that. I often doubt my decisions and feel a sense of fear after making decisions because I regret being locked into something I am uncertain about. I have reached a point in my life, however, where I feel that I need to be making choices in order to get anywhere in life. I've done a lot of research and exploration to try to make choices that at least seem like safe bets or provide me with enough breathing room to escape.

    D) Testing the people in their lives--I am not necessarily slow to trust people with personal information about myself, but I am slow to trust that people are there for the long haul, that they really like me and want to be there long-term. This comes out most often in intimate relationships where I feel the need to be very honest about my flaws in order to get a sense of how the other person would react/what they think. I also do a lot of early-relationship fear-based problem forecasting, pointing out the giant differences between myself and the other person if I see them rather than waiting for them to become a problem. Coming up explanations of how these differences could lead to disappointment or conflict. I tend to give the other person ample opportunities to opt out (even though it would hurt if they did) before I will relax and begin relying on them.

    E) Preoccupation with security. I do feel that I am very much security and stability-seeking. One of the big reasons that I am going back to school is that I fear for my ability to provide for myself in the future unless I increase my earnings. I strongly desire a high-earning, secure, and stable job so that I don't have to worry about money. I also look for security in intimate relationships although I do not yet feel like i've been in a relationship where I could really fully rely on the other person.

    Type 9:
    A) The biggest reason is how often I choose to numb out stressful things. The best example of this is probably my work environment where I have been struggling to deal with incredible anger and frustration over the past year or so. I feel that my exemplary work has been overlooked by the people who matter, and that I am often forced to do the work of others because of a broken system. Now I, as well as several other coworkers, have expressed our frustration on numerous occasions in numerous ways. But things have not changed. To preserve my sanity, I have withdrawn probably to an extreme extent. I prefer to keep to myself and do my work, but avoid interacting with other people who are sources of anger/frustration for me. I tend to pop in my headphones and take frequent breaks between the BS to browse the internet/pinterest/other mindless pleasurable things that help me get through the day.

    I also tend to ignore stressful things as much as I possibly can. When I get home, I typically need extensive periods of time to zone out with tv/books/the internet/video games to recharge and decompress. That can mean that I often put off regular chores, or fail to keep on top of important things that I know won't have catastrophic consequences. Bills are often paid late because there is typically no penalty, or an acceptable penalty I can pay to preserve the peace by not thinking about it. I manage to stay mostly on top of schoolwork and other extremely important priorities/concerns (things related to my dog's health, grades, etc), but I'll avoid mentally taxing things related to goals I am pursuing (that thing I should have done early in preparation for applying to grad programs, healthcare appointments, etc) so long as they are not "urgent."

    I will also try to distract myself as much as possible from experiencing intensely negative emotions that stem from circumstances in my own life. For example, after my most recent break-up, I alternated between periods of intense crying/emotional wallowing and actively distracting myself by cleaning my apartment, grocery shopping, playing a game with a friend. Anything that served to level me out emotionally without requiring a lot of mental effort. I do not like to remain in a state of despair, pain, or self-loathing. I try to manage those emotions and keep moving forward. I do occasionally allow myself periods of wallowing, but they are not prolonged or crippling like they might have been in the past.

    B) Sloth. I feel that I have been a victim of my own sloth in the past. During college, I felt very motivated by my goals at the time and I performed to a high level. After college, I became overwhelmed by responsibility and the burden of making some important decisions in life, and I wasted quite a bit of time being completely inert in life. My days were spent working a dead-end job that required little of me while living at my parents' home and spending all of my free time on video games. I avoided making any decisions or taking any risks and just lived for the daily pleasures I could get for probably 2 years before I was given an ultimatum that kicked my life in gear again.

    C) I am uncertain whether fear or anger is the bigger fixation for me. I have a great deal of suppressed anger and resentment, but I do not feel that I am asleep to that anger. I feel that I often express that anger, though I try to express it in a way that masks the real degree of my anger unless I am pushed to the point of explosion. I have been told that I can come across as silently seething and simmering when I am angry. I usually try to reign it in at work, but I rarely have a problem with expressing it to intimates. I know that I often give the impression of being friendly, and have been told that my anger comes as an intense surprise for others as a result. One acquaintance made a point to say that she thought it was "scary" when I was angry, even without me verbally or physically expressing that anger directly.

    A random mish-mash of additional thoughts:

    I sometimes struggle to identify with Type 9 descriptions because I do not see myself as being as compliant or self-sacrificing as 9's are often described. I tend to go along until someone butts up against my hard limits or I withdraw or hold myself at a distance to avoid dealing with the expectations of others. I would say that I do look for silver linings but it's less trying to turn every specific situation into a positive situation, and moreso a deeply held belief that I will figure something out; some way of coping with or responding to a situation, and that I will persevere. I do not really struggle with conflict. At work, for example, I don't have a problem with expressing my opinion or problems that I foresee. In fact, I have done so in the past to the point where I cultivated a reputation for being a difficult and malcontent individual. At that point I started to experience fear and responded by withdrawing from my coworkers and contributing less negative feedback in order to avoid burning bridges. I am very comfortable with conflict between intimate friends and relationships. In fact, I find it very hard to let something painful or bad linger between us and often attack it even if that means there is conflict as a result. I am very patient and long-suffering with the people I love in the hopes that they will recognize this, feel safe, and offer me safety in return. If I can trust that to be the case, conflict is not an issue for me. I have also often taken stands in certain groups in the past that have led to the loss of those friendships. It was painful and uncomfortable for me, but I won't go along at all costs. In general I try to avoid ruffling feathers or offending anyone to get by. I think I present a generally friendly but reserved front to people in 90% of social situations.

    Reactivity: I am not sure I understand reactivity. I read a thread earlier where someone described reactivity as being easily affected by one's environment, and they provided some examples I really related to. I would say that I am easily emotionally affected. I am very emotionally affected by the people around me. If someone I am close to is in a bad mood, it gives me a great sense of anxiety and really throws me off. If I am around them for a prolonged period of time, i will start to feel drained and depressed by their mood. I am guilty of constantly checking in with people about perceived changes in their mood out of my own nervousness. A single thing my boss says can send me into a tailspin of doubt about whether they value me or recognize my efforts, which can leave a lasting negative impression on my day. Feeling that I said or did the wrong thing can send me into a small panic where I feel the need to immediately address the issue, apologize, or somehow gain reassurance. If something has an extremely negative emotional impact on me, I will usually try to soothe myself through distraction, talking myself down, or seeking reassurance from others. Seeking reassurance from others can come in the form of going directly to the other person involved and apologizing, or looking for some kind of sign that they aren't concerned with whatever I am stressing about. Or it can come in the form of going to someone uninvolved for a reality check or comfort.

  2. #2
    👻 Ⓑ 👻 Ⓞ 👻 Ⓞ 👻 👻 👻 Luminous's Avatar
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    Hi! Wow, that's a lot of info. Do you know your instinctual variant stacking? Would you be willing to make a collage of images that appeal to you and post it here? It could help in the process. I will come back later to study what you wrote. Welcome to the forum!
    ✦ᏖᏒᎥᎮ ค ℓιɬɬℓɛ Ꮭıɠɧɬ ʄคŋɬคʂɬıƈ✦ -: ✦ :- ƒ O ᖇ G E ᗪ I ᑎ ƒ I ᖇ E ❋-: ✦ :-★ᴅᴏɴ'ᴛ ꜰᴇᴇᴅ ᴛʜᴇ ᴇᴇʟꜱ★
    * ・゚ ・゚ * ⊱9w1✶S✶2w1✶X✶5w6⊰ * ・゚ ・゚ *
    ✦Շђєяє คяє ๓σяє тнιηﻭѕ ιη нєανєη αη∂ єαятн Շђαη คяє ∂яєαмт σƒ ιη уσυя ρнιℓσѕσρну.✦

  3. #3
    Junior Member Melly382's Avatar
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    Oh boy, would I? I am more than happy to provide a collage of images haha!

    I am not sure of my instinctual variant stacking, but I am leaning toward sp/sx. I think I can at least put soc last because I am really not much concerned with participating in various social realms and concerns. While I think I have an awareness of group dynamics, hierarchy, and other social conventions, I am not really motivated to engage with them most of the time. I relate best to the Sexual and Self-preservation columns on the chart on enneagram.net.

    That being said, I am only leaning to self-preservation first because I tend to be very stingy with my time and become very irritable when I cannot spend a lot of time to myself in a comfortable environment. I place high value on my physical comfort and really strive to make my room a comfortable place of retreat that reflects what I love. I am generally moody and uncomfortable if I cannot have this. I also derive a sense of stimulation, comfort, and well-being from having good meals to look forward to.

    I also heavily relate to the themes of rivalry, attractiveness, passion, the "best friend", self-revealing and union in the sexual column. I have a close friend (one-time romantic attachment) that I share everything with. When I am with this person, I feel bolstered and somehow more myself. During long periods of time in the past when we haven't spoken, I've felt that life lacked that sense of excitement/spark that this relationship provides me with. I have a preoccupation with my attractiveness to others and feel that I really amp my attractive qualities when I meet someone new that I am excited about getting to know in depth. Anyway, on to the images!

    I love impressionistic cityscapes and landscapes, illustrations (especially of scenes from everyday life), and portraits or images of people. I used to draw voraciously as a kid, and a highlight for me was when a guy in my high school art class asked to keep the portrait I drew of him. When I have an occasional spark to create, I gravitate to images of people either via drawing or photography. I studied abroad for a semester and spent an absurd amount of time photographing members of my group in candid moments. It gave me a lot of pleasure, and I received a lot of feedback from people that my photos captured them in ways they liked. These days, the creative spark is mostly spent creating terrible "photoshop" (microsoft paint in my case) abominations around inside jokes with my friends.


    Kilian Eng:
    Attachment 21710

    Pascal Campion:
    Attachment 21712
    Attachment 21713


    Violeta Lopiz (I believe):
    Attachment 21714

    Kirsten Sims:
    Attachment 21715

    Nicholas Hely Hutchinson:
    Attachment 21716

    Thanks for the welcome!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #4
    👻 Ⓑ 👻 Ⓞ 👻 Ⓞ 👻 👻 👻 Luminous's Avatar
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    First, I love your taste in images! Those are gorgeous! From those, I would guess you are not contra flow (which sp/sx is). I can see elements of sp/so and a lot of so/sx.




    Eh, it bothers me that so many sources make it sound like 4s have a monopoly on depth of feeling and feeling authenticity is important. I experience those, and I'm not a 4. So yeah, I don't think you're a 4 core.

    B) I identify with the fear of losing support, though I cannot figure out if what I experience is the 6's fear of losing support, or the 9's fear of separation/loss. I often worry about what I will do when I lose my mom. I think "who will love me then? Who can I rely on to be in my corner? Who else will be there to unconditionally love me and keep an eye on my well-being?" Breakups are hard for me, I often feel adrift after losing a partner, even if they are still in my life somehow. After a breakup, I know I will never have the same value that I had to that person so I can no longer rely on them to look out for me. I think I would feel very untethered to life if I didn't have the surety that someone out there is invested in me.
    I think this is more indicative of 6 than 9, though if you are so first, that could possibly make a difference.

    A lot of what you write makes me think you may be 6 because you are so focused on building a secure environment, not only for yourself but also for others at work and in your relationships. 9s aren't necessarily doormats, but it sounds like you are more comfortable than I would expect a 9 to be with conflict. Your description of how you handle conflict sounds very 6ish, reactive in pointing out the problem, standing up, feeling anxious and moody. You're extremely alert to threats and worse-case scenarios. Possibly 6w7, that would account for more indecisiveness. I think sp/so, leaning into so/sx. Hope that's helpful.
    ✦ᏖᏒᎥᎮ ค ℓιɬɬℓɛ Ꮭıɠɧɬ ʄคŋɬคʂɬıƈ✦ -: ✦ :- ƒ O ᖇ G E ᗪ I ᑎ ƒ I ᖇ E ❋-: ✦ :-★ᴅᴏɴ'ᴛ ꜰᴇᴇᴅ ᴛʜᴇ ᴇᴇʟꜱ★
    * ・゚ ・゚ * ⊱9w1✶S✶2w1✶X✶5w6⊰ * ・゚ ・゚ *
    ✦Շђєяє คяє ๓σяє тнιηﻭѕ ιη нєανєη αη∂ єαятн Շђαη คяє ∂яєαмт σƒ ιη уσυя ρнιℓσѕσρну.✦

  5. #5
    Junior Member Melly382's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luminous View Post
    First, I love your taste in images! Those are gorgeous! From those, I would guess you are not contra flow (which sp/sx is). I can see elements of sp/so and a lot of so/sx.




    Eh, it bothers me that so many sources make it sound like 4s have a monopoly on depth of feeling and feeling authenticity is important. I experience those, and I'm not a 4. So yeah, I don't think you're a 4 core.


    I think this is more indicative of 6 than 9, though if you are so first, that could possibly make a difference.

    A lot of what you write makes me think you may be 6 because you are so focused on building a secure environment, not only for yourself but also for others at work and in your relationships. 9s aren't necessarily doormats, but it sounds like you are more comfortable than I would expect a 9 to be with conflict. Your description of how you handle conflict sounds very 6ish, reactive in pointing out the problem, standing up, feeling anxious and moody. You're extremely alert to threats and worse-case scenarios. Possibly 6w7, that would account for more indecisiveness. I think sp/so, leaning into so/sx. Hope that's helpful.

    Thanks so much for your response, you gave me a lot to think about! Yes, the depth of feeling and preoccupation with authenticity definitely caused me to wholeheartedly assume I was a type 4 for a long time. And it really made me doubt the possibility of 9. I have a hard time reconciling the concept of numbing out with experiencing intense feelings. Can you speak to how you experience strong feelings as a type 9? What is your typical response to stress or injustice? I don't mean to put the lens on you, but I think I still do not have a strong grasp of type 9's experience with strong emotions.

    I feel that I should clarify how I deal with conflict because I may have mistakenly given the impression that I am more or less comfortable with it. I almost always experience a sense of fear around conflict unless it is occurring between myself and someone that I utterly trust not to reject me as a result of conflict. However, I would still say that conflict distresses me. It actually feels a bit strange to admit that because I am used to seeing myself as someone who stands up for herself. And I do stand up for myself because I hate to feel misunderstood, taken advantage of, ignored, unrecognized, unappreciated, condescended to, etc. But feeling that way is more unacceptable than the fear of repercussion when I have reached my limit.

    I do a lot of self-soothing in situations where conflict is unwelcome or might have significant consequences and I am too afraid to engage. For example, I was recently informed by my boss that they were fast-tracking another employee for a special position. I was immediately upset by this as the senior person in my role, and my boss could see (or anticipated) that it upset me. Because I was not willing to make an enemy of my boss (who I am relying on for recommendation letters in the near future), I chose to outwardly give the impression that accept his reasons for the decision even though I did not agree with them. In actuality, I was furious. But I ended up bottling it up and talking myself down in order to preserve the relationship with my boss. I reasoned that I would still need to work there for a while and I would not be comfortable working in an environment where there was bad blood between my boss and I. I also reminded myself of the few reasons that I agreed with his decision in order to temper the rage so that i could function. This incident further contributed to my extreme withdrawal from the activity and social environment of the office that I described above.

    I still am not sure that I identify with the social instinct. I am not really concerned with creating a safe environment for people outside of myself or my intimates. I don't really care about the security of my office, coworkers, or even friends in general. I also don't really have the desire to have standing in groups of friends, or the desire to really engage with people very often overall. I am extremely withdrawn and am really prone to ignore or avoid attempts by other people to spend time with me or invite me out. Later in life I have begun to value relationships outside of myself, my family, and my significant other much more highly. But I still feel very stressed by social obligations. I make a point to participate in social events enough to exist to people only because I know that relationships must be maintained, and I inevitably regret acting like a hermit despite my natural inclination to isolate myself. I definitely do not look to social groups for feelings of security even though I derive a lot of happiness from participating in those groups on my terms. My security issues are around intimate relationships (significant others and a few very significant friends) and whether or not I can provide for myself in case I am all alone in the world.

    All of that being said, it is definitely 6w7 and type 9 that I have been waffling between the most, so I am interested to see that you thought 6w7 was a good fit as well!
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melly382 View Post
    Thanks so much for your response, you gave me a lot to think about! Yes, the depth of feeling and preoccupation with authenticity definitely caused me to wholeheartedly assume I was a type 4 for a long time. And it really made me doubt the possibility of 9. I have a hard time reconciling the concept of numbing out with experiencing intense feelings. Can you speak to how you experience strong feelings as a type 9? What is your typical response to stress or injustice? I don't mean to put the lens on you, but I think I still do not have a strong grasp of type 9's experience with strong emotions.
    There are some people who think I'm a 1, or possibly a 2, and a lot of times I get 4 on tests. My IV stacking is sx/sp which is supposed to look 4ish, so that and likely having two 1 wings (9w1 core with the others in my tritype being 2w1 and 5w?), probably makes me more intense. I had a difficult time considering that I don't have 4 or 6 in my tritype, as they are the reactive types. (By reactivity, I mean, it's important to me when I'm upset that the person I share my emotions with actually respond with understanding rather than ignore or withdraw). I'm stubborn like a 9, and conflict makes me uncomfortable.

    The reason I am not a 4 is because I do not emphasize, do not think it's important, for me to actively individuate myself. I do actively try to be a caring, loving, kind person, and it would bother me if people thought I wasn't that. And it's important to me to be authentic, but that is an issue that doesn't relate to other people; it's only to do with myself. Hence, 2 and not 4 for the heart triad.

    In response to injustice, I often take a stand. Doing the right thing is very important to me. And if I don't stand up, then my sense of anxiety increases. With stress, it depends, sometimes I lash out (usually passive aggressively) but I often fall apart and withdraw. With extreme stress, I get anxious and breakdown (like an unhealthy 9 would). I can look back at my life and clearly see a pattern of using tv as a numbing agent.

    Here's a good quote regarding 9, 4, and strong emotions:
    9’s have a way of staying calm and composed even in a crisis or great emotional turmoil. They will often experience emotions and thoughts somatically and won’t outwardly show them as much as others, but that doesn't mean they don't have intense emotions. Some 9's can sublimate anger and reactivity into sadness and be a "silent-sufferer," whereas others can attempt to find a boundary and a link to the gut centre. This idea of the silent sufferer has sometimes been misattributed to 4. Whereas 4 is the active amplification of reactions and stewing within internal states for the sake of authenticity, 9's can easily be flooded with emotions but have an internal message that says, "it's not okay for you to express this and bother anyone." 4's will not experience that internal message.
    I'm not sure if my answers were detailed enough to be helpful. If not, please ask more and I'll try to elaborate.
    ✦ᏖᏒᎥᎮ ค ℓιɬɬℓɛ Ꮭıɠɧɬ ʄคŋɬคʂɬıƈ✦ -: ✦ :- ƒ O ᖇ G E ᗪ I ᑎ ƒ I ᖇ E ❋-: ✦ :-★ᴅᴏɴ'ᴛ ꜰᴇᴇᴅ ᴛʜᴇ ᴇᴇʟꜱ★
    * ・゚ ・゚ * ⊱9w1✶S✶2w1✶X✶5w6⊰ * ・゚ ・゚ *
    ✦Շђєяє คяє ๓σяє тнιηﻭѕ ιη нєανєη αη∂ єαятн Շђαη คяє ∂яєαмт σƒ ιη уσυя ρнιℓσѕσρну.✦

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melly382 View Post
    I feel that I should clarify how I deal with conflict because I may have mistakenly given the impression that I am more or less comfortable with it. I almost always experience a sense of fear around conflict unless it is occurring between myself and someone that I utterly trust not to reject me as a result of conflict. However, I would still say that conflict distresses me. It actually feels a bit strange to admit that because I am used to seeing myself as someone who stands up for herself. And I do stand up for myself because I hate to feel misunderstood, taken advantage of, ignored, unrecognized, unappreciated, condescended to, etc. But feeling that way is more unacceptable than the fear of repercussion when I have reached my limit.

    I do a lot of self-soothing in situations where conflict is unwelcome or might have significant consequences and I am too afraid to engage. For example, I was recently informed by my boss that they were fast-tracking another employee for a special position. I was immediately upset by this as the senior person in my role, and my boss could see (or anticipated) that it upset me. Because I was not willing to make an enemy of my boss (who I am relying on for recommendation letters in the near future), I chose to outwardly give the impression that accept his reasons for the decision even though I did not agree with them. In actuality, I was furious. But I ended up bottling it up and talking myself down in order to preserve the relationship with my boss. I reasoned that I would still need to work there for a while and I would not be comfortable working in an environment where there was bad blood between my boss and I. I also reminded myself of the few reasons that I agreed with his decision in order to temper the rage so that i could function. This incident further contributed to my extreme withdrawal from the activity and social environment of the office that I described above.

    I still am not sure that I identify with the social instinct. I am not really concerned with creating a safe environment for people outside of myself or my intimates. I don't really care about the security of my office, coworkers, or even friends in general. I also don't really have the desire to have standing in groups of friends, or the desire to really engage with people very often overall. I am extremely withdrawn and am really prone to ignore or avoid attempts by other people to spend time with me or invite me out. Later in life I have begun to value relationships outside of myself, my family, and my significant other much more highly. But I still feel very stressed by social obligations. I make a point to participate in social events enough to exist to people only because I know that relationships must be maintained, and I inevitably regret acting like a hermit despite my natural inclination to isolate myself. I definitely do not look to social groups for feelings of security even though I derive a lot of happiness from participating in those groups on my terms. My security issues are around intimate relationships (significant others and a few very significant friends) and whether or not I can provide for myself in case I am all alone in the world.

    All of that being said, it is definitely 6w7 and type 9 that I have been waffling between the most, so I am interested to see that you thought 6w7 was a good fit as well!
    I'm hoping that some others will jump in to help in addition, as I have a more difficult time typing 6s. And since it's likely both 6 and 9 are in your tritype, this is difficult...

    It might be helpful to look at the triads to try to differentiate between 6 and 9 as core for you:

    6s would focus on building a secure environment to get their needs met; 9s would withdraw in introspection and a haze. 6s doubt their ability to cope and adapt their belief systems to outside authorities while also questioning everything; 9s overadapt to important others. 6s find sense of self through attachment/loyalty to others; 9s find a sense of self through their idealized view of the world (which is harmonious). This site might help: Social Styles

    "The Compliant Style of Sixes
    Sixes want security, and try to get it by following the rules. If Sixes are sufficiently dedicated and committed to an authority figure, they will earn security from it. If Sixes do not receive enough security, they will either strengthen their commitment to their current authority figure (to give it a chance to provide more security), or they will rebel against it and seek security from another source. Their commitment to their cause/belief/authority figure gives them confidence and makes them look down upon those with different beliefs."
    vs
    "The Withdrawn Style of Nines
    Nines want autonomy and seek it by withdrawing from an endlessly changing world to get their own peaceful and stable space. Nines also withdraw by minimizing their wants and desires. Nines enjoy their time relaxing and fantasizing about their harmonious world (inner and outer). However, Nines fall into the trap of becoming more attached to their idealized relationships than to their real relationships. Under stress or pressure to change, Nines hang on to their idealizations rather than giving up the stability of the status quo."

    One thing about the social instinct is that the definition I prefer to go by takes social to be all social connection, including with your intimates, significant other, and family.

    Social is, at root: bonding, warmth, interpersonal intimacy, relationships, love between two people, friendship, having each other’s back. It is also the human need that lies behind the sentiment of loneliness. (Any instinct type can feel lonely.)

    If you think about it, not all your close relationships are sexual. You might have a one-on-one intense bond with your brother or sister, or one of your parents, or perhaps your teacher or boss who is elderly when you’re a child; but none of these bonds (under typical healthy conditions) would be sexual. You can bond deeply with your sister without there having to be ‘sexual charge.’ So what would you call your intense, trusting, loving relationship bond with your sister? That would be social. And this extends to your friends.

    Sexual is, at root: heat, allure, transformation, sexual intimacy eros. There’s a sense that you want to penetrate and be penetrated by the other person entirely, as though being absorbed into their being; tearing down all walls. (This is often mistaken for intimacy, but it isn’t necessarily, unless the Social instinct is also at play.) It is also the human need that lies behind obsession, limerence. (Any instinct type can experience this.) There’s an addictive quality to it, whether or not you’re actually intimate with the person.. you want them to want you.

    In French, orgasm is called “la petite mort” – the little death. This is because when making love, you’re naked, exposed, without walls. You spill your life seed into, or upon, another. Fluids are mixed. Boundaries are lost, and when boundaries are lost, it’s impossible not to transform; to be reborn.

    The reason sex has been deemed ‘sinful’ and bad is because it’s too destructive to society – it brings unexpected changes. People who were otherwise loyal to their family, or their job, or “the state” – will suddenly throw it all away for the sake of passion. Or that is what they fear. Sx instinct has a transformative quality.. it is there to strip you down, expose you and entice you, leaving you wide open. In this sense, Sexual Instinct has a danger to it. It can be scary, overwhelming.

    Sx dominants are tuned into enticement, allure; they can’t turn it off. There’s a sense they’re always penetrating into you, using some type of luring siren signal, like the way birds show off their bright feathers and sing to impress a mate. All of that is sexual signaling and humans do it very similarly – through dressing up, showing virtuosity to entice (music, art etc).

    Now this does not mean that “Sx dominants are sluts.” Quite the contrary, in many cases. The Sx dominant is so deeply attuned to chemistry that they can tell whose chemistry mixes best with theirs. When this instinct is first, it can be very selective, holding out for the hottest person, some kind of Ideal Other who would attract them and allure and entice them for all eternity.

    This can, of course, develop into a sense of intimacy very quickly- since there’s an addictive quality, wanting to get deep into every part of the lover’s psyche. But this is a very different type of intimacy than that which you experience with your sister. The type with your sister will outlast most of your sexual relationships. The intimacy with your lover is more penetrating and intense, but it is not in and of itself based on common interests, trust, deep bonding and so forth; until Social instinct comes into play.

    And we must remember that people are whole – we are not “just one instinct.” So an Sx/Sp and Sp/Sx couple will become bonded on a social level. Just as an So/Sp and Sp/So couple will enjoy heat and intensity, and want to allure each other. The question is, where does your attention automatically lie? What is the primary call of your instinctual senses? Which instinct is on all the time, in all situations, constantly guiding you, alternately holding you back and propelling you forward?
    So you need not be overly concerned with large groups to not be so last. Bonding is still important to me, even though I am so last.

    I am a little confused as to your stacking, honestly, because your collage over in the collage typing thread does look quite so/sx. But there's quite a lot of focus on sp in your writing. So I'm thinking on it.
    ✦ᏖᏒᎥᎮ ค ℓιɬɬℓɛ Ꮭıɠɧɬ ʄคŋɬคʂɬıƈ✦ -: ✦ :- ƒ O ᖇ G E ᗪ I ᑎ ƒ I ᖇ E ❋-: ✦ :-★ᴅᴏɴ'ᴛ ꜰᴇᴇᴅ ᴛʜᴇ ᴇᴇʟꜱ★
    * ・゚ ・゚ * ⊱9w1✶S✶2w1✶X✶5w6⊰ * ・゚ ・゚ *
    ✦Շђєяє คяє ๓σяє тнιηﻭѕ ιη нєανєη αη∂ єαятн Շђαη คяє ∂яєαмт σƒ ιη уσυя ρнιℓσѕσρну.✦

  8. #8
    Eternally Burnt Out RadicalDoubt's Avatar
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    Hey there, I'm mostly putting this as a reminder for me to respond to some of the things you have here, but I think you might be a 6w7 sp/so (with a 649 tritype in that order probably). sp6 and 9 in general tend to seem quite similar in general, which I think is where some of the confusion is something from? I think the biggest reason I am leaning towards this for you is that a lot of the stuff that you initially got stuck with when you thought you were 4 core as well as your style of evasiveness sounds as though it could potentially be disintegration to type 3.

    Still, I want to be more awake to make sure I'm analyzing this correctly. so again, this is a post to remind me to get to this.
    - 6w5 1w9 3w4 - sp/so - INTP -
    “My deplorable mania for analysis exhausts me. I doubt everything, even my doubt.” Gustave Flaubert


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  9. #9
    Junior Member Melly382's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luminous View Post
    I'm hoping that some others will jump in to help in addition, as I have a more difficult time typing 6s. And since it's likely both 6 and 9 are in your tritype, this is difficult...

    It might be helpful to look at the triads to try to differentiate between 6 and 9 as core for you:

    6s would focus on building a secure environment to get their needs met; 9s would withdraw in introspection and a haze. 6s doubt their ability to cope and adapt their belief systems to outside authorities while also questioning everything; 9s overadapt to important others. 6s find sense of self through attachment/loyalty to others; 9s find a sense of self through their idealized view of the world (which is harmonious).

    "The Compliant Style of Sixes
    Sixes want security, and try to get it by following the rules. If Sixes are sufficiently dedicated and committed to an authority figure, they will earn security from it. If Sixes do not receive enough security, they will either strengthen their commitment to their current authority figure (to give it a chance to provide more security), or they will rebel against it and seek security from another source. Their commitment to their cause/belief/authority figure gives them confidence and makes them look down upon those with different beliefs."
    vs
    "The Withdrawn Style of Nines
    Nines want autonomy and seek it by withdrawing from an endlessly changing world to get their own peaceful and stable space. Nines also withdraw by minimizing their wants and desires. Nines enjoy their time relaxing and fantasizing about their harmonious world (inner and outer). However, Nines fall into the trap of becoming more attached to their idealized relationships than to their real relationships. Under stress or pressure to change, Nines hang on to their idealizations rather than giving up the stability of the status quo."

    One thing about the social instinct is that the definition I prefer to go by takes social to be all social connection, including with your intimates, significant other, and family.



    So you need not be overly concerned with large groups to not be so last. Bonding is still important to me, even though I am so last.

    I am a little confused as to your stacking, honestly, because your collage over in the collage typing thread does look quite so/sx. But there's quite a lot of focus on sp in your writing. So I'm thinking on it.
    Yes, I almost 100% certain that my tritype is 469 (649/946,etc) and it is making this very difficult for me haha. It is really difficult for me, as well, to read 6 descriptions that use the word "authority" and identify with them. I know this is a common issue for many 6-typed people. It's a bit easier for me when "authority" is re-defined as key relationships I place my trust in, or certain beliefs that I have about myself and who I am. I do identify with the idea of committing even harder to a source of authority (as I have specifically defined it) and giving it a chance to prove that it is something I can have faith in. I think this perhaps manifests when I am feeling insecure about a close relationship that I rely upon. I will often feel a jolt of fear that requires me to reach out and reaffirm that we are still close, that they still care about me, think well of me, and that I have their support. Even if we're not actively seeing each other or spending time together, it is still extremely important to me that I have that person's regard and that they reinforce the things about me that the relationship with them allowed me to feel about myself. It sounds incredibly self-absorbed, but the support I look for from others tends to be looking for reaffirmation of my identity and its "good-ness" and value.

    For example, I recently ended a relationship of 2 years and it was a very rocky breakup. It was extremely important to me that this person still thought well of me and wanted to be in my life. Or even if they didn't want to actively be in my life as friends, that they at least left with a good opinion of me. The most painful part of the breakup was when this person cut off contact saying that they felt they have been tricked by me and that I did not have any of the good qualities they had previously been very reaffirming about during the relationship. More than the loss of that companionship itself, the absolute loss of that positive regard was what hit me the hardest.

    Thank you for the link to the social styles! I'd never looked at this resource before and I really appreciated the graphics at the top. I'm a visual learner and really like when things are laid out in graphics In looking through the website, I immediately felt pulled more to the word "withdrawn" than "compliant." While I think I demonstrate both qualities to a significant sense, I would characterize myself primarily as withdrawn, especially under stress. I was able to see myself somewhat in the 6 on that website when authority is defined as a few intimate relationships or sets of personal beliefs about life that I've developed over time. I very much related to the first sentence in 9: "Nines want autonomy and seek it by withdrawing from an endlessly changing world to get their own peaceful and stable space." When the world outside feels too chaotic, uncontrollable, or it's demands require too much energy from me (especially in the social realm of work and friendships), I very much withdraw and seek distance and autonomy from it all. I don't want to be moved by it and I resent the expectations of others. I don't really relate to the minimization of needs or fantasizing about inner harmony. I relate much more to the description of type 4 here:

    "Fours want attention and seek it by withdrawing from the superficial world of the ordinary. Fours also withdraw by being different, unique, and mysterious. If Fours are sufficiently unique, distant, and mysterious, they will attract the attention from those who care. Playing hard to get is a test to make sure others care enough about the them. Fours spend a large part of their time daydreaming and fantasizing about the attention they would like. Fours so much enjoy these fantasies that they have a hard time waking up from their daydreams. Under stress, Fours will retreat further into their imagination to sustain their self-image."

    I pretty much relate to that entire paragraph, though I feel that I've reached a state of health which makes me averse to some of the more extreme aspects like finding it difficult to wake up from daydreams. I certainly think that was true of myself 10 years ago, but I recognize how unhealthy and isolating it was. Under stress, I do withdraw and do a lot of fantasizing about the attention I would like to receive. It's not that I fantasize about receiving praise or having hoards of admirers, but I fantasize about being seen and appreciated by people who will recognize my value. Those fantasies can range from the ordinary desire to be recognized for what I bring to my workplace, to completely fantastical daydreams of performing heroic or powerful deeds that say something about who I am. Under periods of stress, I derive a lot of comfort from withdrawing and reading about personality theory or really throwing myself into interests that feel like "me." I feel anchored by things that remind me of who I am, it feels like becoming re-centered. If I know who I am and what I have to offer, I'll be okay and I can go back out there without feeling as rocked by the world that I am withdrawing from. You mentioned in a previous post that you tossed out the idea of being a type 4 because you did not feel like it was important to you to individuate yourself. In contrast, I feel that it is extremely important to individuate myself. I do not feel the need to be superior to others, but I become highly offended (and cannot let it go) when I feel that I am being dismissed as ordinary or unremarkable. If someone implies that to me in some way, it will eat at me. That being said, I think I have reached a point in my life where I feel that I am unique and that it gives me value, but have found more commonality with others and desire to connect. I now feel like I am able to recognize the uniqueness of others without feeling as threatened by it.

    I am still digging into the IV's and don't feel like I have a strong enough grasp yet to comment! I am really intrigued by the suggestion of so/sx. I've been very reluctant to acknowledge that "so" could be my dominant instinct because I've spent so much of my life defining myself (not entirely happily) as completely separate from the realm of social concerns. I have traditionally had a lot of disdain for things like social conventions, expectations, hierarchies. But the way you've described the instinct makes me want to consider it at least.
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  10. #10
    Junior Member Melly382's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalDoubt View Post
    Hey there, I'm mostly putting this as a reminder for me to respond to some of the things you have here, but I think you might be a 6w7 sp/so (with a 649 tritype in that order probably). sp6 and 9 in general tend to seem quite similar in general, which I think is where some of the confusion is something from? I think the biggest reason I am leaning towards this for you is that a lot of the stuff that you initially got stuck with when you thought you were 4 core as well as your style of evasiveness sounds as though it could potentially be disintegration to type 3.

    Still, I want to be more awake to make sure I'm analyzing this correctly. so again, this is a post to remind me to get to this.

    I look forward to hearing your thoughts! Thanks for taking the time
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