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I'm not sure about my Enneagram type. Help me please. I think it's between 6, 4 and 9

panicstation

New member
Joined
Jun 14, 2014
Messages
14
MBTI Type
xxFx
Enneagram
?w?
0. What's making you unsure of your type? What research have you already done to determine type?

I read Enneagram books, trying to identify my basic fears and desires, comparing between types, etc. At first there are 6 types I can relate to, and after I learn about hornevian and harmonics I can narrow it down to 3 types, the types I'm now confused about.

1. Establish a "baseline mood"--when you're at home with nothing to do, where are you at mentally and emotionally? What do you notice in yourself? (Note, this is not a mood you inhabit "frequently", but your psychological baseline).

I often imagine myself being alone in a big room with big glass door and windows playing sad songs on piano in the afternoon and just let out my tears. The truth is, I can't play piano and I can't even afford a piano. I can only wish I could play it. And sometimes I imagine myself being alone in a wide grassfield in the morning, laying down there and just relaxing and enjoying the sound of nature. I hope I can really do it some day.

2. Describe yourself--
a. What's it like to be you?


I love relaxing but once I do things that should be done I always do it right away and I won't stop until it's finished even if it means neglecting my physical needs.

b. What have others said about you?

Others said I'm quiet, agreeable, sweet, kind, helpful and sensitive. But I don't think I'm like that.

c. What do you think of yourself?
I have low self esteem. It's easier for me to identify my weakness but I have difficulty identify my strengths. I feel I don't have any strength or good qualities. The only good quality I recognise in me is my ability to keep secrets because I never fail to keep people's secrets, and for the other "strengths" that people said I have (dependable, helpful, sensitive, etc), it's only sometimes I have it so I don't think I have those strengths. If I only could be able to consistently being dependable, helpful, etc I would say it's my strengths.


3. What are the issues you've dealt with in life? List some recurrent themes, and tell us a little about each one.

- Shyness/fear of rejection. It's hard for me to make friends or initiating conversations IRL. I'm even afraid of starting new threads on forums like this because I'm afraid people won't reply with nice comments even though thankfully there's no history of people being rude to me on any forums.

- Lack of assertiveness. For example I often let people borrow things that I have without them giving it back to me. I know I have the right to ask people to give the things back to me if they borrow something because it's mine and I'm not giving it away to them but I'm still afraid to do it.

4. You're not good at everything--
a. What personality traits and/or ways of being are impossible for you to adopt?


It's impossible for me to do anything without preparation or clear instructions of what to do and how to do it.

b. What are qualities you'd like to have, but can't seem to develop?

I'd like to be more outgoing, assertive, brave, confident, and being able to express my anger. I have to learn that I don't have to be afraid if I'm right

5. Why have you left friends and other relationships in the past and/or why have they left you?

Because I lost contact with them. That's it.

6. Which types do you identify with most?

4, 9 and probably 6.

a. How do you relate to these types?

Type 4
- I'm pretty sure I'm withdrawn and reactive.
- Kinda enjoy feeling melancholy.
- Often wish I could be more creative so I could express myself.
- Easily moved to tears when I listen to beautiful or sad music.
- Emotionally turbulent.
- When unhealthy I often hold on negative feeling to others when they hurt me.
- One of my weakness is my tendency to be too sensitive and take things too personally.
- Very emotional.

Type 9
- I'm pretty sure I'm withdrawn type, and my reactive-ness might be from 8 wing instead of 4.
- Like said above, I'm not very assertive.
- Have fear of conflict so I mostly go along with others.
- Non confrontational, non argumentative and almost never express my anger.
- I'm pretty accepting of people.

Type 6
- I seek safety and security.
- See the world as a dangerous place.
- Always think of worst case scenarios.
- Full of self doubt.
- Rule oriented and rule abiding.
- Follow rules mostly because I'm afraid to get into a trouble or being targeted if I don't follow it.
- Tend to overreact to things. I'm panic easily.
- Extremely self conscious.
- Uncomfortable with uncertainty and ambiguity. Seek clarity.
- Highly neurotic.

b. How do you NOT relate to them?

Type 4
- Don't relate to the fear of being ordinary.
- Don't relate to integration to 1 and disintegraton to 2.
- Tend to hide my negative emotions except fear.

Type 9
- I actually know what I want, it's just I rarely express it in fear of conflict.
- Actually recognise my anger. Just suppress it to avoid conflict with people.

Type 6
- Tend to respect authority, almost never being suspicious of them.
- Don't relate to "the loyalist" label.
- Not a good troubleshooter.
- Can't identify with the positives of 6 but the negatives are definitely me.
- I think I'm not disintegrating to 3. Or maybe I'm not aware of it.
- Don't relate to "us against the world" thing.

7. Which types are least like you?

8, 3 and 1

a. Why specifically do you not relate to these types?

Type 8
- I don't relate to anything except the fact that 8 is reactive type.

Type 3
- Type 3 is the assertive and competency type. I'm very sure I'm not on those types.
- Don't have the "can do" mentality.
- Tend to doubt my ability no matter how many times I do things successfully.
- Not a competitive person and not a status-seeker.
- Don't have good self image.
- Very sure I'm not integrating to 6 and disintegrating to 9.

Type 1
- Like said above, I'm not one of competency type
- Don't have inner voice that criticizes me when I do the wrong thing or anything like that.
- Don't have high internal standard or internal rules.
- My conscientiousness level is just average. Maybe around 40 - 50%.
- Don't have the "sense of mission" in life.
- Definitely not integrating to 7 and disintegrating to 4.
- Fine with the world being imperfect.
- Not really a principled person.
- Don't really have strong self control.
- Don't care about improving the world or others.

b. What points (if any) DO you relate to?

Type 8
- The fact that it's on reactive triad. That's it.

Type 3
- Kinda image-conscious and have fear of failure.
- Yes I'm not competitive but I can be competitive occasionally. But my competitiveness is not like being competitive to be successful or whatever for 3s. It's only when I'm being challenged for fun.

Type 1
- I care about morality and doing the right thing.
- Believe in "if you want a job done right, do it yourself".

8. They claim enneagram type is a hidden love need. What are your attitudes toward finding love?

I've decided I won't try to find love before I can live the life I've always wanted to live. I want to get a job and make my own money first because I feel it's satisfying if I can buy everything I want and go everywhere I want from my own money. After I achieve it I'm ready to find my soulmate.

9. What is the message your superego tells you?

Consider a time when you felt poorly about yourself--this means your ego (i.e. YOU) is receiving negative feedback from your superego. Write a conversation between the two of them--what is your superego telling you about how to be? (Note: this obviously is very personal and may be better done privately. Report your findings).

"You're a coward. You never take risk."
"Why would you approach the person? The person would reject you anyway."
"You made a mistake! How incompetent!"

For the following, rank the issues in the order they apply and give a brief description of why and how you relate.

10. Determine your ego ideal--the way you strive to be and want others to perceive you. (Note, you may be consciously aware of failing at this, and you will be hard on yourself if you do. If someone else tells you you're NOT this way, it may make you feel hurt, violated, or angry.)

Which of the following ideals resonate with you the most, and why? Rank them.

1 - to be knowlegeable I always think when someone ask a question to me it means the person expect me to know the answer. It's embarassing for me to not being able to answer people's questions accurately.
2 - to strive to become/behave like a good person I don't really "strive" to be a good person, but I do want to be seen as a good person.
3 - to be "okay", having it together
4 - to be a loveable person
5 - to be accomplished and successful Yes I want to be sucessful but I still don't know how to make it happen.
6 - to be devoted and loyal to a person or cause I'm not really sure about it as I don't think I'm a loyal person
7 - to be sensitive, original, unique, and creative
8 - to be loving and benevolent
9 - to be powerful, strong, unassailable. I don't care about being powerful. I just want people to take me seriously and stop treating me as a doormat.

11. Determine your "felt sense" of life. To do this it may help to look at how you perceive events. Another way to do this is to look back at your childhood and think of all the things your parents did to you. How did you/do you feel about these events?

Here are some common "felt senses" of life:

I relate to the bolded ones.

- I must do everything to maintain my world
- I have a sense of being unimportant, insignificant, and underving of attention
- I feel imperfect, not (good) enough
- I have been abandoned and I am inherently flawed
- I'm outside the natural unfoldment of things
- People have wronged and messed with me
- I feel isolated, cut off, and ultimately separate
- I have felt weak and/or vulnerable to attack
- I've had a sense of being rejectible

12. Core fears. You may have been aware of these fears even as a very small child, before anyone did anything to influence it. You'd be mortified to be in this position or have others perceive you this way.

Discuss which fears have played the greatest role in your life:

- Creating conflict by making myself or my needs too obvious
- Rejection, being needy, and not being loved
- Weak and not being on top of things
- Failure
- Being abandoned, sadness, feeling lost
- Entanglements and losing what I have
- Something is basically wrong with me--I'm not good enough
- Boredom, grunt work, and being exposed as a charlatan
- A lot--everything and everyone to one degree or another. It's very generalized.
 

Luminous

༻✧✧༺
Joined
Oct 25, 2017
Messages
10,235
MBTI Type
Iᑎᖴᑭ
Enneagram
952
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
From this, I would guess 9w1.

Also :hug: You seem like a nice person who is too hard on themselves.
 

panicstation

New member
Joined
Jun 14, 2014
Messages
14
MBTI Type
xxFx
Enneagram
?w?
Elaborate.



Elaborate.

I want to mention you but I don't know how so I quote you instead.

"I see the world as dangerous place" means I see the world as a place full of hoaxes, frauds, etc. People telling lies and manipulates so I think it's dangerous to be too trusting, especially with strangers because you don't know where they come from. I seek safety and security by searching for more information and proof if something or someone is trustworthy or not.
 

Zhaylin

New member
Joined
Jan 2, 2019
Messages
468
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
952
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I'm thinking 9w1 too.
I'm very new to Enneagram though.
 

panicstation

New member
Joined
Jun 14, 2014
Messages
14
MBTI Type
xxFx
Enneagram
?w?
I'm not sure I have 1 wing if it's true I'm a 9. I'm thinking 8 wing because I'm reactive and can be kinda revengeful. I think 1 wingers won't be revengeful because they think being revengeful means being evil.
 

Zhaylin

New member
Joined
Jan 2, 2019
Messages
468
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
952
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Ah, yes! Good call.
I don't think (for everyone) it comes down to viewing reactivity as "evil", it's just not in their nature.

Like, with my kids. When they were growing up, they sometimes did things on purpose- TRYING to get a rise out of me. They NEEDED me to SHOW anger sometimes. But I couldn't. It's just not in my makeup.

Attempted analogies


A bird flies and a fish swims. A bird isn't less than because it can't swim and vise versa (sp). They're just different.

I'll have to think on your favored types some more...
 

Tomb1

Active member
Joined
Jun 15, 2011
Messages
994
1s are punitive/wrathful in the unhealthier levels...self-righteously so meaning they can justify it to their superegos because they don't view their actions as evil.

I'm not sure I have 1 wing if it's true I'm a 9. I'm thinking 8 wing because I'm reactive and can be kinda revengeful..

You said that you're afraid of asserting yourself...so when you say you're vengeful, you mean that you get revenge in sneaky ways (behind people's back), right?

Give an example or two.
 

panicstation

New member
Joined
Jun 14, 2014
Messages
14
MBTI Type
xxFx
Enneagram
?w?
But you said that you're afraid of asserting yourself, so when you say that you're vengeful, you mean that you get revenge in sneaky ways (behind people's back), right?

Exactly.

Give an example or two.

A few years ago when I was at my cousin's house she criticizes me that I use my phone 24 hours a day. Yes I admit that I use my phone too much, but I can't accept if she said 24 hours a day because I use it only about 10 hours a day. So when I'm alone I hide her make-ups before I go home. She doesn't have too much and she puts all of it in a medium-sized box. She wasn't suspicious at all. Later that night she called me, ask if I see her make-ups. I said that I didn't see it and maybe she forgets where she puts it and I closed the phone. I laughed because I think she finally receive the consequence of criticizing me inaccurately. If she said I use my phone for several hours I won't be angry at her because it's true. I hate it if people criticize me inaccurately like that, especially if they're too black-and-white in criticizing me.
 

Tomb1

Active member
Joined
Jun 15, 2011
Messages
994
Phobic 6w7 sp/sx can be confused with 9w1s… Moreso with SEI….IEI and EII 6w7 sp/sx more frequently pass for 4s. so we have to look closely in order to tell the two apart.

Panic only articulated the distortion of type six -- the world is a dangerous place. No other type distortion is mentioned. That's KEY.

Briefly, fear is the root issue of type six (6) due to the distortion that the world is a dangerous place. Panic articulated fear as a root issue:

3. What are the issues you've dealt with in life? List some recurrent themes, and tell us a little about each one.
- Shyness/fear of rejection. It's hard for me to make friends or initiating conversations IRL. I'm even afraid of starting new threads on forums like this because I'm afraid people won't reply with nice comments even though thankfully there's no history of people being rude to me on any forums.
- Lack of assertiveness. For example I often let people borrow things that I have without them giving it back to me. I know I have the right to ask people to give the things back to me if they borrow something because it's mine and I'm not giving it away to them but I'm still afraid to do it.

Another fallout from the core distortion of type six is a pervasive sense of distrust. Panic also articulated that.

This distrust, in turn, leads to the core strategy: defense/self-protection:

I seek safety and security by searching for more information and proof if something or someone is trustworthy or not

The area of fixation for type six is vendetta; rivalry. Panic confirmed that here:

I'm reactive and can be kinda revengeful.

Panic also confirmed the core passion of type 6: cowardice

A few years ago when I was at my cousin's house she criticizes me that I use my phone 24 hours a day. Yes I admit that I use my phone too much, but I can't accept if she said 24 hours a day because I use it only about 10 hours a day. So when I'm alone I hide her make-ups before I go home. She doesn't have too much and she puts all of it in a medium-sized box. She wasn't suspicious at all. Later that night she called me, ask if I see her make-ups. I said that I didn't see it and maybe she forgets where she puts it and I closed the phone. I laughed because I think she finally receive the consequence of criticizing me inaccurately. If she said I use my phone for several hours I won't be angry at her because it's true. I hate it if people criticize me inaccurately like that, especially if they're too black-and-white in criticizing me.

From my primer for each type:
“Core Passion: Cowardice. The passion of cowardice manifests either through phobic or counterphobic behavior. Remember that counterphobia is not the opposite of cowardice but an aggressive version of it: i.e. stealing victories, piggybacking on others, blindsiding, back-biting, strength in numbers.”

That also includes sneaky revenge. A 9 would have never gaslighted her like that...a 9 would be okay with her saying 24 hours instead of 10 hours a day.

A Primer On The Core Gestalts For Each E-Type And More

Panic reports being respectful towards authority, but note what he says here:

- Follow rules mostly because I'm afraid to get into a trouble or being targeted if I don't follow it.

So respectfulness towards authority is really fear-based and following rules for him belies an underlying distrust of the "authorities" who can make and enforce it. That ties back into the core distortion of the world being a dangerous place ("i'll be a target if I don't protect myself").....thus, properly framed, it constitutes the phobic strategy of defense/deterrence.

The fact he doesn't fit the loyalist label scores more points for six over type nine.

So that’s core distortion, core strategy, area of fixation, core weakness and core passion all falling under type 6. Enough to go forward with a final decision on his type. See my Primer On The Core Gestalts. The rest I can just chalk up to socionics type.

So, final call, 6w7 sp/sx
 
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