Is this type of behavior normal to you?

[Morpheus]

[MENTION=38616]Morpheus[/MENTION] tests in general aren't very relateable, but since I'd already seen your description of youself, the actual result of the test seemed to be fitting. You should redd up abut the types, I'm pretty certain of the tritype, but you could be a 4w5 as well as 5w4. I think the enneagram could solve your T/F issue as well. 4s are not your typical feeling types, even though they're very emotional, they are also withdrawn, shy and egocentric. I think an e type 4 might open your eyes when it comes to the different flavours of feeling types in the MBTI.

If you'll relate more to the cold logic of a 5, I''d say that there's is a good chance of you actually being an INTP.

Keep in mind that enneagram types come in different coats as well. 4 sp is less emotional and more distant while 4 sx is passionate and intense. 5 sp is the most cold type of a 5 and sx 5 can sometimes seem overly intense for a head type.

I did what you said and I think i'm more 4w5.

I'll show the descriptions i like the most. The bold part are the one that I relate the most.

Type 4

Need
You need be seen as artistic, gifted and accomplished. You focus on your individuality and on carving your own distinct image. You need to express your deep feelings and want others to validate your emotions. Whether you are organizing your living space to reflect your refined tastes or engaging in an artistic pursuit, it is essential for your sense of well being that you express your creativity.

Avoid
You avoid feeling lost, disorientated and without personal significance, meaning or direction. You also avoid appearing inadequate, defective or flawed. Most importantly, you have a hidden fear of being emotionally cut off and abandoned. You avoid affectation and anything dull, ordinary, ugly, vulgar, inauthentic or distasteful.


Virtue
Your greatest strengths are your deep intuition, creativity and ability to transform painful life experiences into opportunities for profound growth and healing. This enables you to identify what is missing, and like a knight on a quest, you search until you find it or create it. Astute about human nature, you believe that everyone is an individual and that all emotions have value. Profound and insightful, you have an uncanny knack for transforming the dull and the ordinary into the exciting and extraordinary. You are able to see and appreciate what is truly unique, special and rare.

Vice
Your vice is envy. You’re always worrying that others may have gotten a better deal than you or are being recognized while your talents are being overlooked. Hyper-sensitive, you can be moody, haughty and overly emotional, always seeing the grass as greener and the glass half empty. You can be self-absorbed and temperamental, and tend to over-personalize all life experiences and interactions with others. Capable of being emotionally manipulating or overly critical, you are often unaware of the impact your emotional nature has on others. Remember, that you are like a mystic who sees ‘the river beneath the river’ and are not just the swamp of your emotions.

Attention
Your attention goes to searching for meaning, noticing what is missing, feelings of melancholy and nostalgia, and longing for the unavailable. You appreciate the special, the humane and the beautiful. You like to put your personal signature on everything that you do. Your refined tastes make you a great critic and someone who appreciates the truly exceptional.

Spiritual Path
Your spiritual journey is to connect to original source and create true meaning. Spiritual growth will come to you when you are able to balance your emotional nature with temperance and equanimity. Keep your powerful emotions in check, and you can create the kind of life that you want.

Mantra
Don’t dwell on the past, and remember to enjoy the pleasure that can be found in each moment. When you have gratitude and the courage to move through your fear of rejection and share your talents, others will honor your original and creative contributions.

Wing
If you are the Enneagram Type 4 with the 3 Wing, you desire to appear genteel. You see you yourself as fiery, passionate, expressive, energetic, beautiful, and kind.
If you are the Enneagram Type 4 with the 5 Wing, you desire to be avant-garde. You see yourself as original, sincere, mysterious, subtle, artistic and independent.

Type 5


Need
Fearing intrusion, you need to keep yourself hidden and camouflaged. However intellectual you may be, you often feel vulnerable and exposed like an animal without fur. You need time alone to recharge and for others to not place high demands on your time or energy. It is essential for your well being that your mind is clear, your life uncluttered, and that you have the autonomy to control your time.


Avoid
You avoid standing out and/or being misinterpreted. You also avoid pretentious or ostentatious displays. You may find small talk or a brainstorming session at work to be an insufferable waste of time. You fear annihilation, contamination, and being fully embodied – as you feel more comfortable being with your thoughts than in your body. Because you prefer to live a life that isn’t weighed down by attachments – either material or relational – you also avoid surplus of any kind. The one exception might be a library of resources.


Virtue
Your greatest strengths are your clear objectivity, your instinct and your penetrating insight that is unfettered by emotions. You have an innate ability to gather information and create systems to assess and categorize data in a clear and concise manner. Mentally astute, you are able to observe, study and track even the smallest details, often developing expertise in many areas. Underneath your shyness and reserve, you are a kindhearted and giving person. You are also very loyal to and supportive of those you trust.


Vice
Your vice is avarice. This can manifest as a greedy hording of yourself, your time, your energy or your things. Be careful of your tendency to observe the world through a peephole. It can keep you isolated and out of touch with human concerns. Be aware of your tendency to withdraw into your ivory tower of ideas. Others may start to see you as arrogant and unfeeling. Being dispassionate and ‘cool as a cucumber’ is good in an emergency but hard on relationships.


Attention
Your attention goes to observing the world, hiding or withholding to protect yourself and gathering information for the purpose of knowing and understanding. Hesitant and reluctant to engage, you search for factual data, seeking reason, logic and objectivity.

Spiritual Journey

Your spiritual path is to reclaim a sense of non-attachment and experience true omniscience– true knowing from a higher source. Spiritual growth will come when you offer freely of yourself to others without fear of incurring obligation and realize that mere information can never be a substitute for true direct knowing.


Mantra

Your map of the world is a mental construct, not the actual territory. For deeper knowing, remember to include your feelings as they yield important information in any equatio.As a rule, you believe that there is always more that can be learned, known and understood. It is helpful to recognize when you know enough to make a decision.

Wing

If you are the Enneagram Type 5 with the 4 Wing, you desire to appear imaginative. You see yourself as aloof, understated, penetrating, intuitive, inquisitive and quiet.

If you are the Enneagram Type 5 with the 6 Wing, you desire to appear intellectual. You see yourself as changeable, receptive, careful, whimsical and trustworthy.

 

[Morpheus]

I recognized myself entirely in the avoid, virtue and attention in type 4 wherein type 5 I didn't recognize myself as much, only in the vice part. I don't actually feel envious but competitive. I like to observe like how other musicians at my level are doing in order to compete, but not feel envious. But the avarice of my energy, time and even myself is real.

 

[Morpheus]

idk, if they all say the same thing I guess it's fine then.
these are good
rheti enneagram test
http://www.lakenokomispc.org/uploads/2/9/8/7/29872037/quest_pg_1_test.pdf

rheti enneagram type 5
(with wing) 5w4
calculated "tritype" 459
most likely myers-briggs type (raw) INTP
most likely myers-briggs type (comparative) INTP

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
17 8 16 21 26 16 9 6 24

raw
e n f p
42.8 168.8 96 157.2
261.5 61.8 126.7 114.7
i s t j
236.7 13 106.9 61.7
-36.5 147.5 80.3 130.5
e n f p
comparative

 

[Earl Grey]

Tiny tidbit of consideration while going forth on your journey to typologyland, a lot of type descriptions include behavioural examples (understandable) but the key is the motivation and fixation- if you relate to the behaviour but not basic desire, basic fear, then you might not be that type.

Just as a small example [excerpt from E4],

"You avoid feeling lost, disorientated and without personal significance, meaning or direction. Most importantly, you have a hidden fear of being emotionally cut off and abandoned."​

this overlaps with the sexual variant, and

"You need time alone to recharge and for others to not place high demands on your time or energy. It is essential for your well being that your mind is clear, your life uncluttered, and that you have the autonomy to control your time."​

overlaps with withdrawn triad (4, 5, 9), the self-preservational instinct, and general introversion. Not to mention personality / behavioural traits are not exclusive to any type or triad, for example Type 1, 3, 5 is called the Competency Triad, but E8, and even other types can be hella competitive too. So look into the terms and what they actually mean.

I see you're testing between 4 and 5 now. I'd say look into instinctual variants, because IV can influence how a person displays their type. For example, self-preservational (sp) type 3s can look like type 1 (I myself mistyped due to that, early on), sexual (sx) type 5 can look a whole lot like type 4. The takeaway here is that if you can figure out your IV (it is a stable force, so it won't change depending what your type is) it can help you narrow down your types. For example, if you test as type 8, you may also want to look at sexual type 1, or if you test as type 7, you may also want to look at social type 5, just to be sure. For the most part people can relate to their core types even without IV, but I mention this because you seem to be picking between 2 types that do happen to sometimes be confused with each other due to sharing a triad (Withdrawn) and possibly resembling each other depending on IV (in contrast, some are extremely stark and different).


More or less keep learning, there are a bunch of overlaps especially in types that share the same triad (Head, Heart, Gut) / harmonic triad (Reactive, Competency, Positive Outlook, etc), keep introspecting, see which one fits best.

 

[hjgbujhghg]

I think that you're a 4w5 sp/sx. Some things that you relate to in the 5 profile are not exclusive to 5s. For example needing time alone to recharg is typical for all withdrawn types and introverts. 4 with a 5 wing can also be good at searching for facts and learning. The most important thing is how much you relate to their basic fear and basic desire.

4s are a heart type, that means that they want to be loved above anything else. But they feel like they lack positive traits and cannot be loved by another person, they feel too weird and different from others. Therefore they decide to cultivate this wierdness and turn it into something special, aesthetic and artistic, something that deserves love. They try to reach this distant ideal of someone special and unique enough to be worthy of affection of another being.
Their biggest fear is to lack personal identity, individuality and uniqness and being average, because being average or being just like other people makes them unworthy of love.

5s on the other hand are a head type. Their biggest desire is to feel save, and 5s can only feel save when they know and understand things. Things that are cannot be logically understood and learnt frighten them, knowledge means power and safety, ignorance means uncertinity and fear. 5s need to become professionals in an area of their interest to feel like they hold a true power over their intellect, so they obsess over topics that they find interesting.
Their biggest fear is to be stupid, incapable, dependant of knowlege of others, because that makes them feel weak and useless.

 

[Morpheus]

Tiny tidbit of consideration while going forth on your journey to typologyland, a lot of type descriptions include behavioural examples (understandable) but the key is the motivation and fixation- if you relate to the behaviour but not basic desire, basic fear, then you might not be that type.

Just as a small example [excerpt from E4],

"You avoid feeling lost, disorientated and without personal significance, meaning or direction. Most importantly, you have a hidden fear of being emotionally cut off and abandoned."​

this overlaps with the sexual variant, and

"You need time alone to recharge and for others to not place high demands on your time or energy. It is essential for your well being that your mind is clear, your life uncluttered, and that you have the autonomy to control your time."​

overlaps with withdrawn triad (4, 5, 9), the self-preservational instinct, and general introversion. Not to mention personality / behavioural traits are not exclusive to any type or triad, for example Type 1, 3, 5 is called the Competency Triad, but E8, and even other types can be hella competitive too. So look into the terms and what they actually mean.

I see you're testing between 4 and 5 now. I'd say look into instinctual variants, because IV can influence how a person displays their type. For example, self-preservational (sp) type 3s can look like type 1 (I myself mistyped due to that, early on), sexual (sx) type 5 can look a whole lot like type 4. The takeaway here is that if you can figure out your IV (it is a stable force, so it won't change depending what your type is) it can help you narrow down your types. For example, if you test as type 8, you may also want to look at sexual type 1, or if you test as type 7, you may also want to look at social type 5, just to be sure. For the most part people can relate to their core types even without IV, but I mention this because you seem to be picking between 2 types that do happen to sometimes be confused with each other due to sharing a triad (Withdrawn) and possibly resembling each other depending on IV (in contrast, some are extremely stark and different).


More or less keep learning, there are a bunch of overlaps especially in types that share the same triad (Head, Heart, Gut) / harmonic triad (Reactive, Competency, Positive Outlook, etc), keep introspecting, see which one fits best.

I'll look it up! But by what [MENTION=18559]Five to One[/MENTION] said I think that deep, really deep I just want to be good enough so people can admire me. I always admired and pursued different things, cultivating my own individuality. I started liking math because I knew it was different, I wanted to play bass even before hearing the sound of a bass guitar cause I knew it was different. I kind of unconsciously pursue what others don't want to in tentative of catching others attention. I think that when I'm insecure I look for competence because I think that if I get good enough at something, I'll be valorized, admired, and - I don't like to use this term because it makes me feel weak - loved too. I always cultivate in me what I find admirable, logical analysis, serene mood, curiosity, creativity, artistic abilities and I'm looking forward to learning new, admirable(to me), things like boxing and different languages, politics, history... Not because I want to feel safe but because I want to be admired.

 

[Earl Grey]

I'll look it up! But by what @Five to One said I think that deep, really deep I just want to be good enough so people can admire me. I always admired and pursued different things, cultivating my own individuality. I started liking math because I knew it was different, I wanted to play bass even before hearing the sound of a bass guitar cause I knew it was different. I kind of unconsciously pursue what others don't want to in tentative of catching others attention. I think that when I'm insecure I look for competence because I think that if I get good enough at something, I'll be valorized, admired, and - I don't like to use this term because it makes me feel weak - loved too.

That is very interesting. And I find it very interesting that you just seem to have a very clear idea of your preferences. But I'll add that Fay's description of 5 leans to 5w6, sx-last. The image archetype of the 'professor', the 'professional', is closely tied to 5w6 and 6w5, much more 'scientific', 'empiric', 'structured', but for the most part you seem to have an image-orientation and particularly of E4. If you are E4, I can see 4w3 with a 5w4-fix. 5s tend to be, or can be more 'aloof', and are less inclined to draw attention to themselves. 3s are more interested in performing for its own sake. Your final sentence in this paragraph seems like a common sentiment of a type 3 infuence.

I always cultivate in me what I find admirable, logical analysis, serene mood, curiosity, creativity, artistic abilities and I'm looking forward to learning new, admirable(to me), things like boxing and different languages, politics, history... Not because I want to feel safe but because I want to be admired.

Why / how do you want to be admired? What does being admired do for you?

 

[Morpheus]

That is very interesting. And I find it very interesting that you just seem to have a very clear idea of your preferences. But I'll add that Fay's description of 5 leans to 5w6, sx-last. The image archetype of the 'professor', the 'professional', is closely tied to 5w6 and 6w5, much more 'scientific', 'empiric', 'structured', but for the most part you seem to have an image-orientation and particularly of E4. If you are E4, I can see 4w3 with a 5w4-fix. 5s tend to be, or can be more 'aloof', and are less inclined to draw attention to themselves. 3s are more interested in performing for its own sake. Your final sentence in this paragraph seems like a common sentiment of a type 3 influence.

I've been really introspective since the year began. These descriptions of type, the questions you guys make me, my own questions make me think about everything, when I'm answering questionnaires I like to think on how I've been in the present moment. But now I began to see it fully, to remember my high school years, my childhood, this kind of things, trying to get as much information of myself as I can get, I perceived also that I have a childish fear of not being INTP because like I said before, when I read about INTP descriptions I don't recognize myself but the image of who I wanted to be. So I'm trying to ignore those things to find my true type. And then, only then I can see a clear path to becoming the best version of myself because I always wanted to be really good at everything, but then some years ago I noticed that basically, that was my basic goal, to be the best version of myself.

Why / how do you want to be admired? What does being admired do for you?

To tell you the truth, I don't really know why since this desire is inside me since I was a child. Maybe this feeling grew by reading Mangas, by people saying that I was really intelligent for my age, that I was going to be successful, that I had the talent to draw, maybe that kind of things created a desire in me to be really great at something to be admired... I remember quietly competing with friends who draw when was in 4th, 5th grade haha. I think that competence always had a huge value in my life but at the same time I never felt like I was really good, I was always insecure and never really accepted my intelligence and talent for arts till my teenage. Where I knew that I was not a sports guy, neither the intelligent one, but the guy who was artistic. But then with age insecurity grew back and I ended up giving up drawing, but my skills generally excel at drawing, writing, playing music.

My logic only began to get better in adulthood but now I think it's easier for me than art because art can be so subjective, like gesture drawing, it's hard to me not having a clear logical path to follow(even when I think in music I'm thinking in how each chords work together and what chord will be next, and why), it comes naturally to me, just takes time, like having a puzzle with hidden pieces, so I look for those pieces everywhere, trying to put everything together. Like MBTI if the result is strange and don't look like being right, I'll keep searching, I think if I obtain every piece together I'll know the truth so I won't need to decide blindly, because I'll know the right decision already.

I think if I keep up trying to get better as a person and if I try to do something big, avant-garde, people will admire me. And well it will only makes me feel good I think, useful. It will make me feel that my life was worth it. That I made something nice.

 

[Earl Grey]

I've been really introspective since the year began. These descriptions of type, the questions you guys make me, my own questions make me think about everything, when I'm answering questionnaires I like to think on how I've been in the present moment. But now I began to see it fully, to remember my high school years, my childhood, this kind of things, trying to get as much information of myself as I can get, I perceived also that I have a childish fear of not being INTP because like I said before, when I read about INTP descriptions I don't recognize myself but the image of who I wanted to be. So I'm trying to ignore those things to find my true type. And then, only then I can see a clear path to becoming the best version of myself because I always wanted to be really good at everything, but then some years ago I noticed that basically, that was my basic goal, to be the best version of myself.

It's the person, not the label. A label that fits on you depending who you are, not a label to fit into. Your best version may or may not be INTP, but will be your best version. If it does happen to align with the image of INTP, then that is entirely coincidental. I find that typology can help one's self discern how and why they work the way they do, and if typology can help you break through your limits instead of simply defining who or what you are, then it has truly served its purpose.

To tell you the truth, I don't really know why since this desire is inside me since I was a child. Maybe this feeling grew by reading Mangas, by people saying that I was really intelligent for my age, that I was going to be successful, that I had the talent to draw, maybe that kind of things created a desire in me to be really great at something to be admired... I remember quietly competing with friends who draw when was in 4th, 5th grade haha. I think that competence always had a huge value in my life but at the same time I never felt like I was really good, I was always insecure and never really accepted my intelligence and talent for arts till my teenage. Where I knew that I was not a sports guy, neither the intelligent one, but the guy who was artistic. But then with age insecurity grew back and I ended up giving up drawing, but my skills generally excel at drawing, writing, playing music. My logic only began to get better in adulthood. I think if I keep up trying to get better as a person and if I try to do something big, avant-garde, people will admire. And well it will only makes me feel good I think, useful. It will make me feel that my life was worth it. That I made something nice.

FWIW, this does sound E4. A focus on who you are and your self-identity, and how it ties to your self-worth and self-image, particularly by distinguishing yourself and finding out who you truly are. INTP 4 seems like a rather interesting combination.

 

[Morpheus]

It's the person, not the label. A label that fits on you depending who you are, not a label to fit into. Your best version may or may not be INTP, but will be your best version. If it does happen to align with the image of INTP, then that is entirely coincidental. I find that typology can help one's self discern how and why they work the way they do, and if typology can help you break through your limits instead of simply defining who or what you are, then it has truly served its purpose.

Yes, it makes sense. I think that for me it's like I kind of need to have a starting point so I can begin to work on myself. But then those stupid behavioral descriptions end up in a broken puzzle for my mind, which makes me restless. It's like since I began searching for it I can't stop till I find the answer, don't know why I just can't help myself to stop searching and looking for my true type lol. Guess I need to follow your way of thinking as the type being the best approximation of me and not the contrary.

FWIW, this does sound E4. A focus on who you are and your self-identity, and how it ties to your self-worth and self-image, particularly by distinguishing yourself and finding out who you truly are. INTP 4 seems like a rather interesting combination.

Yes, I thought INTP 4 too, but I was waiting to someone to someone say it without my interference, because otherwise I would consider a result manipulated by me.

 

[Earl Grey]

Yes, it makes sense. I think that for me it's like I kind of need to have a starting point so I can begin to work on myself. But then those stupid behavioral descriptions end up in a broken puzzle for my mind, which makes me restless. It's like since I began searching for it I can't stop till I find the answer, don't know why I just can't help myself to stop searching and looking for my true type lol. Guess I need to follow your way of thinking as the type being the best approximation of me and not the contrary.

Yes, I thought INTP 4 too, but I was waiting to someone to someone say it without my interference, because otherwise I would consider a result manipulated by me.

It sounds like a good preliminary assessment / a start. It fits everything you have said so far. And yes, it would work to have a starting point. As you learn more, it'll be clearer if it is true or not. Try not focus too much on behaviours, but motivation. In real life? Behaviourally? I don't look like a withdrawn core. I get told I am friendly, energetic, optimistic, while E5 is sometimes known as the most withdrawn, introverted type of the Enneagram. Not to mention, even the same type can look very different from each other depending on IV and level of health (Wisdom of Enneagram by Don Riso covers this). Good luck, Morpheus.

 

[Coriolis]

Yes, it makes sense. I think that for me it's like I kind of need to have a starting point so I can begin to work on myself. But then those stupid behavioral descriptions end up in a broken puzzle for my mind, which makes me restless. It's like since I began searching for it I can't stop till I find the answer, don't know why I just can't help myself to stop searching and looking for my true type lol. Guess I need to follow your way of thinking as the type being the best approximation of me and not the contrary.

It is sometimes referred to as your "best fit type", meaning that types by definition are just approximations. It's like shopping for shoes. Hardly anyone gets custom made shoes any more. We go to the store and find the size and style that are a good fit, while not tailor made. For some of us, that is more of a challenge than others.

I wouldn't discount those behavior-based descriptions altogether. Behavior isn't irrelevant to type, it is just too top-level to tell anywhere near the full story. Why we do what we do is much more revealing, but behavior -especially repeated behaviors and habits - can point us in the right direction, and lead us to ask the right questions. I find type descriptions at least as helpful as tests in determining type, but you have to read quite a few: descriptions of different types, written by different authors. When I read them, I can find something I identify with in almost every single type. When I read the one for my type, though, there is almost nothing I don't identify with. It thus stands out like the proverbial sore thumb. Also, when I dig into those things in the other types that I might identify with, I am usually coming at it from a different angle than folks who really are that type. The third method, after taking tests and reading type descriptions, is to get input from people who know you well and also understand typology. When all three align, you probably have your best fit type.