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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    5w6 sx/so


    Quote Originally Posted by zleto View Post
    F or T is very very often the hardest part to define. Again, no confusion possible for me. I always choose the feeling over the thinking. I recognize this is usually for all people the hardest part. I have helped all friends and family and collegues define their type and this one really is tricky.
    Essentially due to the fact that people tends to think that:
    - T has no emotion
    - If you like people, you're F
    - T has no heart and is very hard when speaks to others

    But :
    1. We all need to be T, because we work. And you cannot make decisions on your feelings. So usually, we're confused because it's hard to imagine what would be our NATURAL, out of context, decision making procedure.
    2. Some T are very very sensitive. They just make decisions logically.
    3. T can make decisions based on human respect. But he will take it as a logical element rather than a feeling that he'll follow. T's can be very close to people as they usually keep calm and make rational decisions. Can be great support when things get bad.

    What is clear for me, is that I make decision on my feelings. I remember people by the feeling I have of them. In my mind, places, people are not tagged by names, colours, shapes, but only by the feeling I have from them. Intuition is THE thing in me. Gift, ... curse ... that is not always easy. But still, Intuition is essential in how I act and what decions I make.
    As far as your description on the F and T goes, I wrote a post recently that I believe elegantly caputures what they're about for me as a strong T, and here's the link to my post:

    I'm very strong on the thinking end of the spectrum, but that doesn't mean I don't have powerful emotional sides.

    You see, making ideas and actions based on rationality or logic can perfectly coexist with strong sentiments. Sometimes we can even do things by way of the emotions, but it's generally in the service of a reasoned cause.

    For reference, I'm a deep humanitarian, and I truly believe it would be ideal for us to share our happiness with the world, but I wish for this because it's a much better context for advancing the progress of objectives, such as the evolution of civilization and bringing enlightenment to the mind. Truly this leads to expansion in the most integrative way.

    Feelings can help give focus to our reasonings as well, make us act with better values and use knowledge with virtue.

    To answer your question, find something the "thinker" has discovered or developed of mental importance to himself, and then let the enthusiasm for this point of interest spread amongst yourselves, eventually even out into the world if it's open to that. Really explore how the rationality can give hopes for the free explosion of happiness.

    Ultimately, if we thinkers want something, no matter how rationalistic it may be in nature, it's because it flows from the well of happiness at the heart of our beings.

  2. #12
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013


    Thank you RaptorWizard.

    I absolutely not meant to give a detailed view of the difference between T or F, just reply common assumptions that are wrong.

    I think your description is very good, as you explain one the most important thing when you try to evaluate yourself. It's not much WHAT you choose, but WHY and HOW you choose it. You can choose to follow your feeling, because rationally, you think this has more value than your other option.
    I have seen many T's that feared to be described as heartless and somehow felt bad because being a T "would mean" they don't value feelings as much as F's. This is why I wanted to say that the VALUES of your life, are not dictated by your type.

  3. #13
    darkened dreams Ravenetta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    4w5 sp/sx


    Quote Originally Posted by zleto View Post
    Hey hey !!

    You won't ever imagine that: I'm NEW here !!!
    Yeah ! Huh, well, ok ...

    So that's me. INFJ. I've always been interested in human nature, psychology and how we all work out.

    I'm a PURE INFJ ^^ Not a single doubt on any of the letters.

    Totally N; just can't remember any detail on anything. That is terrible, so much awkward moments when I meet people that recognize me, and I don't :S (lately, my brother's ex girlfriend. I have lived next door for a couple of years. So lame)

    Can't really say why I came here ... followed my feeling ^^
    Hey zieto, the reason I was joking around is that it seems like you have to know that you were baiting people to doubt your type with this OP. The zany, party-crazy attitude is the stereotype of an SP, and INFJs are abstract, distant, and introverted. Their Fe is stereotyped as focused on helping others, giving advice, teaching, feeling responsible, and even sometimes on a focused mission to help humanity. It's true that the type can be playful, but it tends to be more private. It would be a rare INFJ that was a party animal, and it would be one with much stronger Fe than Ni - a debatable ENFJ I'd suggest.

    INFJs do remember details, but they just aren't the same type of details that someone with Si would remember. For example, I interviewed a new student once and afterwards I realized I couldn't remember the color of her hair, what she was wearing or anything about her appearance. I could remember many, many details about her internal world, how she felt about trying to learn the piano again, her hopes and insecurities, the way past teachers made her feel, etc. All these details are intangible, you can't hold them in your hand or define them as simplified facts, but they are real, interconnected, and relevant to reality. Ni is like the waves of an ocean, because on the one hand it moves you in imperceptible ways that feel like impulse or intuition, but it isn't just random. It is based on underlying currents, it is based on everything being connected, and it does have its own kind of structure.

    Think about the inward, thoughtful, responsible, focused way that an ISFJ, ISTJ, or INTJ behaves. The INFJ shares similarities in their external presence with these other introverts who are structured and focused. Of all of those types we are probably the most fluid in our connection to the concrete world, but still, we tend to have more in common with those types externally than with an SP.

    That doesn't mean you aren't an INFJ because obviously one little post isn't going to be enough for anyone to know, and INFJs are known for having many different and contrasting sides to their personality. In the second half you keep defending that you are an INFJ like there is some type of doubt. It just reads like an invitation to question type. That's why I read it as a game. I don't have any particular conclusion or assumption because I don't have enough information to put together a definable impression.

  4. #14
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013


    Interesting response.

    You say my "explanation" is a potential unconscious way of challenging it with external vision due to an inner feel of incompatibility. As this occurs often in people (unconscious acts), here it's not the case. I just tried to give you material to understand my nature.

    Also you say "It would be a rare INFJ that was a party animal", and you are completely true again. But did I went to any party? No. I'm quite surprised to read that you haven't took it as a welcome message, just like "hello World". Do we need to be always so close to the stereotype?

    I can now reply to your message.

    You say : "The zany, party-crazy attitude is the stereotype of an SP, and INFJs are abstract, distant, and introverted"
    I don't mean to be rude, but you're going extremely fast in conclusions here.
    The zanzy attitude, is only written; which is the preferred way of expression of I's. Then you call it zanzy, but you'll see that this technique is VERY commonly used by I types. They often check the place before they really go in. Who shoots first, who might take the role of a helper; identify people that judge on appearance.

    Moreover, are all INFJ's sad and sorrowfull? Desperate, abstract and distant? What means introverted? Do they hide behind trees and observe all others from far away?
    Well I don't think so. I'm happy with what I am, I have the occasion to try to be better, and this is what I try to do. Am I abstract and distant, yes, but not where I don't need to. That's an internet forum. What's my risk? None. On the contrary, that is one reason to challenge my own type. Push myself out of boundaries and try to "evolve".
    Does Introverted mean to be a creep? Absolutely not. Introverted is the energy. My energy come from my inner self. That is what it means. It flows on the way we are, and also on communication. But an "opened" / "extroverted like communication", does not mean the people are E.
    An introverted type is not someone that never speaks. It's someone that usually speaks A LOT of what he knows and avoid small talk.
    Even more, many very important people and good negotiators are of I-J type, because they come much more prepared than the E-P people that tend to rely too much on their improvisation capabilities.

    MBTI is a NATURAL preference. And as we do the quizz, we need to focus on "natural" / "out of context" decisions, behaviors. That means that the type will reflect an inner self, natural, almost "animal". But on top of this, there is education, life, experience, perception filters, emotions ad so on. And it makes us all different.

    So finally, it's very interesting when you really feel the type, to see what different you could have been (or can be), and in the same time, be extremely close to the type description. As INFJ, I could have been Gandhi. I suppose, and that hurts me to say, but I may have been Hitler too. What made them (of the same type, INFJ) what they are, is not their type. It's their lives, their experiences, and the ideals they decided to fight for / against.
    In a particular point of view, Gandhi and Hitler are the same. They have fought for ideals they have accepted as being the right ones.

    Well you see, I think that INFJ can gain a lot opening to others a little bit. Try to seem a bit less enigmatic, which doesn't mean to say all we think, because that is obviously impossible. Try to do the things they usually don't do, because that also, are experiences that helps INFJ's in understanding the world. I always wanted to USE my intuition to help people, tell them what I see and they don't. But I have experienced so many failures, because people were not willing to hear me out. They were hurt, and that hurt me. I tried to find a way to share my intuition and undoubtedly, what worked pretty good, was to get closer to them. Not only as a professor, but as a friend, a listener. To get the trust of people you need to trust them, and prove them you trust them. So yeah, I mixed up, not as much as I should, but I made efforts and that could have made me look like different from the "usual" type. But it hasn't changed what I am inside, and never will.

    In fact, what's cool, is that thanks to you, I have felt what other people might feel when they discuss with me. Well, usually I don't give advice to anyone that has not asked me for it, but still, that is interesting and I thank you for this.

  5. #15
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    INFj None


    My impressions were the same as Fia's. I mean, when I saw "get the party started" I thought "I'll bring the Earl Grey."

    Obviously not every INFJ is quiet, introspective, and bookish, but it is part of the stereotype. Myself, I'm not as abstract and intellectual as a lot of INFJs -- my life didn't work out for me being that way. But I am (usually) quiet, (fairly) introspective, and (pretty damn) bookish, though I read mostly genre fiction -- generally not intellectual.

    Mostly your approach just took folks by surprise, I think, because it's more the kind of thing we see from extroverted and/or SP people. It was over the top, so it appeared to be a joke. That's just a first impression, which isn't always accurate. No big.

    Welcome to the forum, BTW.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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