Video: IEI Needs Se or a Butler

[Retmeishka]

The Myers-Briggs test actually does a fairly good job of typing perceivers and judgers correctly. It's not 100% accurate but it's kind of okay. That is one of the few nice things I have to say about the MBTI. So it's amazing that I'm even saying that.

 

[Retmeishka]

In real life, in social situations, and on forums, I'm instantly attracted to my socionic conflictors (ENFJ / EIE), especially if they are male. They are the warmest, friendliest, nicest, kindest people on the planet. They are all-embracing and all-inclusive. In groups, they seek me out because I'm a loner and I look lonely. They bring me in and welcome me. They protect me, they keep talking to me, they try to help me and make sure I'm getting what I need.

However, after spending an hour or two with this person (I'm thinking for instance of a guy who was at this church where I was going to play board games, briefly, one winter a few years ago - he was an EIE / ENFJ), my brain was exploding. I was totally, totally exhausted. He kept on using -Ni/+Ne to tell me what to do in the board game. He was teaching me how to play this complicated board game, and he kept on using his -Ni to describe a hundred different what-if scenarios that I should be aware of while making all my choices in the board game. I simply could not understand any of it, and I tried really hard to listen to everything and keep up, but in the end, I made all my decisions on impulse and said to myself, 'Screw it, I have no idea what will happen in this scenario, I'll just do something random and find out.' I just could not keep up with him while he was using all of my weak superego functions (-Ni/+Ne, +Fe/-Fi).

So my conflictors and I are instantly attracted to each other, and we try to help each other, in social situations (I've also met helpful, kind EIEs who helped me on forums when I went there to ask a question). But after spending an hour together we both are so exhausted and strained that it hurts just to be there. I was full of constant anxiety and lost all my energy. That's how a conflictor feels. You really do sincerely like them and admire them and appreciate them, but if you try to spend time together being close, talking directly to each other for even so much as an hour, you are dead exhausted.

With a dual, you can spend hours together, you can have 'comfortable silence,' you can go home and come back, you can see them the next day, and you don't get exhausted. People still need time alone, but it doesn't feel like that awful conflictor feeling where your brain is completely fried to death in less than an hour from the constant overuse of all your weakest functions.

 

[Fun in the Sun]

IEI or not, she should still pick up after her own s***.

 

[pinkgraffiti]

I agree about not forcing ourselves to develop the functions we're not good at. In socionics, your duals (and activators too) help you with the weak functions, while at the same time, they don't criticize you for being weak in them. However, it also takes practice. Other factors can interfere with the relationship. I'm still skeptical that this ISTJ was really your dual. They might have been, they might not have been. I could ask a lot of questions, like 'Was this person really a PERCEIVER?' Did the person prefer to just kind of watch things and understand them, did they describe things rather than judging them? The perceiving ISTP is your actual dual if you are an ENFP. I'm still skeptical even though you said their functions were 'SiTe.' I just totally don't trust any typings that were done using the j/p switch. J is judging, P is perceiving (and I'm sorry for ranting, I seriously will have to get around to writing a whole separate thread about this rant). That's not even your fault, everyone is doing that everywhere. Perceiving is really, really, really, really different from judging, and you need to be sure you are with a perceiver, not a judger, and you would have to just ignore the letters that a lot of people call themselves because of the j/p switch giving everyone the wrong letters.

So if you were with a REAL ISTJ, they would have been constantly talking about measuring things with numbers. Like, 'We scored 52! We won!' They would have a group orientation (we, the group, 'won' something). They would instantly judge a situation as good or bad because the numbers were better. That's only one tiny aspect of what they do - I haven't gotten a chance to work on describing the ISTJ/LSI yet. I'm working on some other stuff as of right now (describing the sensing functions in thorough detail). So I can't really tell you everything a real ISTJudger would do. Sorry for being skeptical when you say that you're sure they were using SiTe. I've seen so much crap and garbage going on in the entire typing system that I just totally distrust all typings that anybody else does (I don't trust my own typings either, and I'm hoping to someday buy an EEG brain-reading cap thingy like Dario Nardi has).

Strange that you say your Te is well developed and your Fi is underdeveloped. I actually went through a phase when I was younger, where all I did was study psychology, and I learned how to do things like 'reflective listening.' I actually developed my Fi pretty well back then, and I de-emphasized my own Te. Dario Nardi (the EEG brain-reading guy) says that as we get older, we start to sort of resemble our socionic activators. He doesn't use the term 'socionic activators' because he's officially not doing socionics (and, don't get me started, he DOES use the j/p switch typing method). But, for you, that would be like if you practiced trying to learn to be like an ESTJ, your socionic activator relation. You would learn practical skills with tools, things you could do with your hands, maybe woodworking or fixing and repairing things (I know a male ENFP who learned woodworking from someone, it was an example), the 'do it yourself' kind of Te.

By the way, because of all the confusion with the j/p switch, and me not being sure exactly what type the ISTJ really was, you and I might not be talking about the same thing when we say 'Te.' And a real ISTJudger would use a different kind of Te than an ISTPerceiver. (Sorry for adding the word 'judger/perceiver' on the end, I just passionately hate the j/p switch and want to destroy it from all existence, and I sometimes have to nag about it.) An ISTJ would use a kind of Te where they might tend to boss other people around and tell them to do something - you go here and do this, that other person will go over there and do that, you guys will make a system and we'll get this done really efficiently. That's minus Te. A real ISTJ uses +Ti/-Te 'bundled together.' They're going to do a lot of number-counting and measuring. It'll be like, 'Our group performed well, we got our numbers down, we improved our efficiency and today we made $64 in an hour.'

So after ranting about the j/p switch and about how skeptical I am that this person was a *perceiver* and skeptical that you two were actually socionic duals, I still have to admit that sometimes dual relationships don't work for other reasons. My own IEE/ENFP boyfriend went through a phase where he was totally ignoring me, refusing to answer text messages and phone calls, and we just never got to see each other or spend any time together. But it was because his grandmother was dying of cancer, and he was constantly miserable and did not want to socialize and didn't want to express his feelings to me. So, if something really awful is going on in someone's life, it can ruin a relationship even if they are duals. (He did eventually start speaking to me again, but it was after his grandmother finally died, like after months had gone by, and we got back together.)

I know you haven't learned the socionic system completely yet and so I might be confusing you when I keep ranting angrily about 'the j/p switch for introverts,' it's just that I want to emphasize: socionics *totally fails* whenever people are mistyped, but it really works if they are typed correctly - and HUGE, HUGE numbers of people are mistyped.

Mistyping people doesn't matter as much if all you're doing is just describing yourself. If I had been mistyped as an ISTJ, I could probably sit there analyzing it and figuring out ways that, maybe, kinda, it really did describe me. But all of a sudden, if you try to find 1. other people who have the same type as you, but were typed using a different typing method, such as taking the Myers-Briggs test (which will correctly give people the *right* perceiving/judging function) instead of analyzing the functions (which will give the *wrong* J/P letter to all introverts), or 2. if you look for people compatible in socionics, it suddenly matters a whole lot more when huge numbers of people are mistyped. People will have the same type and say, 'Hey! I'm an ISTP too!' but they're actually an ISTJ and they're the opposite of you and you won't get along, and you'll always be like, 'Why is this person annoying me?' It causes total chaos in the system, and makes everybody say, 'Socionics doesn't work,' when actually socionics works great when people are correctly typed.

Omg, I'm a blogger and I zone out while writing huge walls of text, this isn't directed at you personally pinkgraffiti, you just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time while I went off on a huge rant.

I thought about it and yes, im still pretty sure about the functions-especially im very sure about Si as first and Fi as stress function. So take it as you will.
I take it you are not a Te user, cause you said the same thing like, 3 times (no offense). Also, you seem to be a bit obcessed about numbers. Surely that's not what an ISTJ does all day (again, no offense).
Well, anyways, thanks. But no thanks.

 

[Retmeishka]

I thought about it and yes, im still pretty sure about the functions-especially im very sure about Si as first and Fi as stress function. So take it as you will.
I take it you are not a Te user, cause you said the same thing like, 3 times (no offense). Also, you seem to be a bit obcessed about numbers. Surely that's not what an ISTJ does all day (again, no offense).
Well, anyways, thanks. But no thanks.

Well, there could have been a lot of other reasons why you two didn't get along. Sometimes people are ignorant, arrogant, or immature. I'm 40 so I have mellowed out by now, but I was arrogant when I was young and I might not have been able to handle a relationship a long time ago. I did actually have a crazy relationship when I was a teenager, but I don't know if he was my socionic dual or not. So maybe she was your dual, but she just didn't know how to appreciate you and will have to mature, or maybe she still has to get her own life under control first (job, school, etc, all the worries).

Or the girl you were with could have been on drugs. Birth control pills mess up people's moods and turn them into bitches. I took birth control pills and got into a fistfight with a guy on the school bus because I was in such a violent mood all the time on the pills.

I'm not sure how to interpret 'fi as a stress function,' because I'm really out of practice with the way functions are done here - I've forgotten it all since I learned socionics. What do I myself do when I'm under stress? I guess it depends on what kind of stress. I think I'm always under stress. I've also got chronic fatigue syndrome and I'm always overcaffeinated. I always say the same things, not just three times but a hundred times, because typing on a keyboard is the only thing that can entertain me when I'm too tired or busy to do anything useful. If I could quit caffeine, I wouldn't ramble on and on so much.

My boyfriend got brainwashed into joining the army, so he's across the country right now, and he has a mild learning disability, so he doesn't enjoy writing and reading emails very much (I'm not sure if he knows the 'official' way to type on a keyboard, or if he just does the hunt-and-peck method of pushing the keys). That's why I'm hanging around on the internet writing massive walls of text and blogging all the time. So you will see the same crap written not just three times but dozens of times, and I always preach to the choir and tell people what they already know, or else I just get ignored. I'm very repetitive and most people learn to tune me out, or they pick out the couple of sentences that are interesting.

I would be using a lot more Te, or logic in general, in my life, if I had more free time, wasn't worried about working and earning money, and didn't have chronic fatigue. I'd be reading and studying and learning more skills. I used to love learning science when I was in school, and I loved chemistry, math, meteorology (weather), nutrition, earth sciences, biology, lots of stuff. That's mostly logical. I'd be learning more practical skills too if I could, but sadly cannot - I want to learn computer programming, musical instruments, woodworking, sewing, all the stuff they teach at the vocational school. I know how to grill burgers like a pro at McDonald's, but that's about all I learned as an adult. So I'm a postponed Te user who is waiting for a chance to learn more skills and do practical things. I also have learned a bit about economics, money, and bookkeeping, and how to run a business.

The reason I associate ISTJs with 'number-counting' is because I've had some ISTJ managers at work who really were like that. It was something that annoyed me and I could never get into it. The one ISTJ lady was always getting all these numbers about how our store was performing compared to the other stores, whether our numbers had gone up or down a couple points, all that, and it was like this game, this competition to see if we could get higher numbers than the other stores, and she always promised she would give everyone a 'reward' if we got higher numbers, as a group, like we'd get a pizza party or something, as though any one of us even had any control whatsoever over what the numbers were doing! Why would we be rewarded for something that wasn't even under our control? Like the profits would be up, or the amount of wasted food would be lower, or our speed would be faster. It was all about number-counting, working together as a team (even though none of us had the power to improve the way that place was working), being rewarded as a group, and 'winning' in the 'competition.' That's one reason why I associate ISTJs with numbers and winning. But they will also do a lot of arguing where they say 'that's not true' or 'that doesn't work.'

 

[Retmeishka]

So yeah with socionics, it's like this with an ENFP:

1. Dual: Change all the letters except the last one (P or J). ENFP - ISTP. Make sure they really are a perceiver, because tons of people are mistyped, due to the 'j/p switch for introverts.' (And maybe the girl in the video, originally, might be mistyped, because lots of IEIs said she was really annoying and she didn't seem like their type.) So you might find a bunch of conflictors calling themselves 'ISTP' because they don't know any better and that's what everybody's doing in this system. A dual is going to be a perceiver like you.

2. Activator: Keep the first letter (E or I) and change the rest: ENFP - ESTJ. This is a good relation. Activators find each other easily and have a very intense attraction and strong emotions and they make each other laugh a lot. It's less relaxed than a dual so they need to spend some time apart.

3. Mirror: Change the first (E/I) and the last (J/P). ENFP - INFJ (and make sure they're really a J, judger, because of the same doggone j/p switch mistyping crap).

4. Identical: The same as you. ENFP - ENFP.

So those four get along easily and usually understand each other (not always perfectly for various reasons). As long as nobody is mistyped.

 

[Retmeishka]

All that being said, I watched more of the video, and actually I feel like she really is an IEI / INFP who needs -Se. I can picture her riding in the car with a SLE mafia gangster type guy.

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

IEI. what is that, ENFP? why the different names, why complicate? ugh

What is THAT

 

[Jaguar]

For chrissake honey - spit it out. Talk.

 

[pinkgraffiti]

What is THAT

What is your problem exactly?

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

I have no problem man But you say "that" to speak of a person

 

[cascadeco]

On one hand she is lazy, and extremely pretentious; I mean who actually likes grocery shopping? That is not a unique complaint, fast food and home delivery exists for a reason. Humans are universally lazy.

But on the other hand she is a pitch perfect IEI (by Aushra's definition), IEI (Ni), and IEI-H. I do mean perfect. Ni leading (rejection of reality.), Si role (I need a butler. Conscious, but unwilling to deal with it.). Te Polr (disorganised, poor money handling skills.) Se suggestive, running through the entire video.

Which when you think about it is hilarious/ridiculous/depressing. Because not only has she obviously spent countless hours wading through the contradictory, confused, contentious mess that is socionics; long enough to become fluent in it. She also created a perfectly poised video, one that I would guess took more then one shot to make.

Instead of learning to deal with the minutia of life; a cake walk in comparison to what she did do.

On the plus side we do have an answer to the age old question; is there such a thing as a lazy German?

Yeah, I agree, it's not like everyone is just dying to do the more mundane necessities in life; I mean, I just had to get an oil change, the sort of task I postpone and would love to have a 'butler' do (lol), but whatever.

To your commentary, is it the mere fact she spent countless hours contemplating and bemoaning all of this, then making a video, vs just sucking it up and dealing with it, that makes her a stereotypical IEI?

 

[Jet Stream]

This woman is sick in the mind. Instead of saying "I NEED to be mentally healthy" she takes the random road and makes it a matter of cognitive functions. Not helping herself with that, poor thing..

 

[1487610420]

Maybe it's an act, bcuz YT and internet celebrity.

 

[SpankyMcFly]

My curiosity made me click this thread. Just as I was about to click the video I decided to read some of the first comments. Phew! Not even gonna bother now, chicks like that *trigger* me Including typing this I figure I can salvage a couple minutes of my life by not watching. Thanks you quick posters! [MENTION=23222]senza tema[/MENTION] [MENTION=7991]chickpea[/MENTION]

 

[Dr Mobius]

Yeah, I agree, it's not like everyone is just dying to do the more mundane necessities in life; I mean, I just had to get an oil change, the sort of task I postpone and would love to have a 'butler' do (lol), but whatever.

To your commentary, is it the mere fact she spent countless hours contemplating and bemoaning all of this, then making a video, vs just sucking it up and dealing with it, that makes her a stereotypical IEI?

That was part of it; but the entire thing was.... well perfect. Forgive me if what I say next rings of condescension, I have little idea as to your knowledge of socionics. Essentially socionics functions are tied directly to real world attitudes/actions*; depending on placement the functions will assume different roles. Her act is spot on, only someone steeped in socionics is that useless.



* Disclaimer: Socionics has always crumpled on impact with reality: Technically its tied to logic which is suppose to correspond to reality..... you know as logic so often does.

 

[Retmeishka]

That was part of it; but the entire thing was.... well perfect. Forgive me if what I say next rings of condescension, I have little idea as to your knowledge of socionics. Essentially socionics functions are tied directly to real world attitudes/actions*; depending on placement the functions will assume different roles. Her act is spot on, only someone steeped in socionics is that useless.



* Disclaimer: Socionics has always crumpled on impact with reality: Technically its tied to logic which is suppose to correspond to reality..... you know as logic so often does.

You're just jealous because you want a butler too.

 

[CancerianINFJ]

i feel exactly the same !!! Nice to know im not the only one in this world .

im an IEI as well .>! my friends dont understand . why i m not good / dont like doing practical things . Thanks for your video

 

[chubber]

I need Se too, because I need a butler?

 

[windoverlake]

• Discussion on IEI

Wow, that really was awful. She reminds me of Kristen Stewart. Both young and insecure.