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  1. #11
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    May 2007


    Example of Fi value: Honesty at the expense of harmony.

    "You dishonest hog-beast, GTFO!"

    Example of Fe value: Harmony at the expense of honesty.

    "Daaaaahlink, ooo look mahvelous."

    Person leaves room, then . . .

    "Damn, she looked like shit."
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    — Mark Twain
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  2. #12
    blessblessblessbless asynartetic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    9w8 sp
    LII Ti


  3. #13
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Jul 2010
    4w5 sp/sx


    I didn't need to take much else seriously when she was talking about consciously accessing her introverted Feeling despite Fe being her preference. Yeah, that's exactly how that works. I also highly suggest dominants switch their feeling preferences to Aux mode, just for the purposes of this conversation.

    Another gem about Fi:

    It’s been called the “selfish” function, or the “bad” type of Feeling. It’s little wonder many people don’t want to claim it as a preference with that cloud hanging over it.
    I've never heard of such a thing, it sounds like propaganda.

  4. #14


    I don't remember a time I ended a relationship over values

  5. #15
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Mar 2012


    Ah I never read the articles I just like reading the praise section:

    Vicky Jo has cultivated a rich knowledge of personality type theory, particularly the value of drawing upon multiple frameworks. She has helped edit a number of my books, and I have found her insights and suggestions invaluable.

    Dario Nardi, PhD
    I’d taken personality tests before, and thought I “got it” — but now I know they only scratched the surface of the insights that are available to all of us through this work. Looking deeply into my type, with Vicky Jo’s support and guidance, was both validating and eye-opening. I highly recommend that anyone who is serious about investing in self-discovery partner with a professional, and Vicky Jo is at the top of the personality assessment field, combining a warm coaching style with years of dedicated research and expertise.
    Jennifer Warwick, MA
    I have been working with Vicky Jo for about a year and a half and can say with honesty that she is an amazingly insightful coach. Thanks to our coaching sessions, I now have a job that I enjoy and have made some great strides in my personal life, and I continue to work with Vicky Jo for the fresh perspective that she provides. A couple years ago, I was mired down and didn’t know how to interpret certain events and relationships in my life due to my typological limitations, but Vicky Jo has a way of cutting through all the noise and helping me find my truth. She also has integrity, which is important. She will not shy away from the uncomfortable and will tell you the truth as she sees it, which is what I value in her the most.
    I’ve had to work hard and it’s been a wild ride, but if you are serious about turning your life around, working on a specific issue, or just gaining clarity around your type preference, then Vicky Jo is the coach for you!

    ~Laura G.
    You are such a type rock star! Go Vicky Jo!!!!
    -Chris Montoya
    I’ve gone to trained counselors in the past because I felt something was missing and that the problem was me, but for all the time I spent talking with them I never received as much validation and helpful information as I did Friday evening … my sincere thanks to Vicky Jo.
    D. Ashworth
    Source: Praise « Type Insights

    Testimonials people! Like a muthafuckin faith healer.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.
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  6. #16
    Google "chemtrails" Bush Did 9/11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    3w4 sp/so


    I have heard Fi compared to the Tao – the more you try to describe it, the more it changes and becomes something else. Fi seems to defy defining!
    Hah! Eat it, Ni.

    Introverted Feeling is all about “valuing.” That might even be a synonym for this process. Extraverted Feeling is all about “connecting.” That might even be a synonym for this process.
    Not bad. Not bad at all.
    Ne = Ni > Ti = Fe > Te > Fi > Se = Si
    J. Scott Crothers
    Founder, Truthtology, est. 1952
    Prophet and Channel, God Almighty
    Author, the Holy scripture Elevenetics
    Mod, Typology Central

    "Just as jet fuel cannot melt steel beams, so too cannot the unshakeable pillars of Truthtology ever be shaken, whether by man, nature, or evidence."
    - Elevenetics

  7. #17
    Senior Member YUI's Avatar
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    Jul 2014


    Not responding to anyone in particular here. I just want to make some general comments to add to what I said earlier:

    There is definitely a difference between Fi and Fe. Fi is the "chillier," more contemplative function. Whereas Fe is the "warmer," more hands-on function.

    But one runs into trouble when one tries to say much more than that (or even that much). If you try to put labels on the functions, people object to the labels. If you try to demonstrate how the functions work, people say, "My Fi/Fe doesn't work like that."

    Same thing happens with Ni. When outsiders try to describe how Ni works, it seems like Ni-Doms almost universally nitpick the description.

    Fi-Doms and Ni-Doms in particular never seem to like what's said about their functions. Carl Jung himself seemed to register that; Jung was pretty hands-off in his descriptions of those two functions in particular. But modern typology has shifted away from descriptions of personality types as a whole to analysis of the functions separately. So there's a growing library of modern analysis of *all* the individual Jungian cognitive functions. I especially like the new emphasis on analyses of functions in Inferior positions. I think those analyses provide a lot of collateral information on how the functions work.

    Personally I also like it when the experts try to highlight some little real-world difference between Fe users and Fi users and show how that difference captures the Fe/Fi dichotomy. It's a scattershot approach. Some go wide of the mark; some hit closer to the bullseye. I've taken a stab at this sort of thing myself, most recently in this post:

    One can take the hands-off approach and avoid controversy. But I appreciate the experts who take chances and get their hands dirty with more in-depth analyses. It seems that Vicky Jo Varner has moved beyond her little INFJ website/blog/message board to publication of some more serious typology analysis, such as: Can You Spot It? Recognizing The 8 Cognitive Processes. I haven't checked out her on-line course myself, but my first impulse is to try to give her the benefit of the doubt. She keeps her explanations simple for public consumption, but it sounds like she's putting in a lot of time and work on this stuff. Certainly more time and work than me or other amateur commentators here like me.

    Anyway, I'm just saying. Fi and Ni aren't "terra incognita" as much as they once were. The experts are pulling those two functions apart and seeing how they tick just like all the other Jungian cognitive functions. It makes for a lot of heartache and handwringing among some Fi- and Ni-users. But it's the wave of the future.

    Oh well, enough said on that subject, at least by me. The article linked in the OP is a small article on a narrow aspect of the Fi/Fe dichotomy, not worth fighting to the death over. But as I said: I can see myself in Vicky Jo's description of Fi.
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  8. #18
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    5w4 sx/sp


    Quote Originally Posted by YUI View Post
    INFJs will do a big doorslam on a friend and then flagellate themselves endlessly over the subject; I could never understand that.
    For years.

    As I get older, that time spent has shifted from self-criticism (I could have said 'this', I could have done 'that') to simply grieving losses and accepting they had to happen. But even being more mindful, it still takes forever to really go away. I don't think (this issue in particular) is Fe so much as people-oriented Ni- because TPs, nor SFJs or even ENFJs, don't get hit as bad as we do with this.


    More on the thread tangent (and fwiw), I really don't ever relate much to what Vicky Jo says. If I were to go by her descriptions, then I wouldn't think I was INFJ. And I'm pretty sure I'm INFJ.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari
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  9. #19
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Sep 2009
    5w4 sx/so


    [I use a short hand where Fi/Fe "does" things and "thinks" things, etc. I know that really it's whole people to do things, and functions are more like the lenses through which we view the world.]

    I agree that the article really fails to capture the nature of Fi, and think that it falls pretty wide of the mark. Both Fi and Fe can be connecting. They can also both be boundary enforcing and disconnecting.


    They can both be connective because they are both about harmonizing with people. Fi focuses on the harmonizing with a specific person (which might be the self) moment to moment. It tries to optimize its internal landscape and the particular interaction with someone else.

    At its best, Fi can cut through social propriety and relate to the individual as the individual is in the moment, appropriate or not.

    Conversely, Fe is better at harmonizing with across multiple people and across multiple interactions. It builds up networks of connection in which people know how they are valued and what their obligations are. Fe builds networks of connections that communicate regularly and communicate "you are important to me."


    Both Fi and Fe can be disconnecting and boundary enforcing.

    Fi tends to defend boundaries based on personal space and personal values. While Fi is generally very tolerant, it will defend the small territory in which it feels free to act according to its values. It doesn't take kindly to well-meaning others who intrude into that space with a demand to do things their way, or who trod upon an important value. Since Fi values intent, it tends to be forgiving of inadvertent offenses, but there are definitely acts which are effectively unforgivable (or make the other someone with whom vulnerability is ill-advised).

    At times, Fi can be unsparing of itself as it tries to live up to dearly held value without making room for practical considerations (either limits of the self or realities of the outside world).

    Fe tends to defend boundaries based on roles (and level of relationship), obligations -- "obligations" feels like too cold a term, really -- and consistency. If someone else is too inconsistent or doesn't live up to their obligations, the other may be demoted from "close friend" to "friend," for example. If the other is wildly inconsistent and flaky, they may be deemed someone whom it is not safe to invest in and be close to.

    If the relationship is a close and valued one, then Fe (like Fi) is perfectly capable of communicating its displeasure and disappointment. Feeling is not all about warmth and positive valuation.

    Fe can be unsparing of itself as it tries to live up to all of its "shoulds." It doesn't matter what one's inner emotional state is (that's often distraction or noise unless the state persists), or what other demands one has on oneself.

    So, no, I don't think Fi = easy to walk away from relationships, or easy to doorslam. I've certainly agonized about backing away from certain relationships even when I thought it was the best thing for all involved. I don't think Fe = connecting and Fi = valuing. They are both perfectly capable or connecting/disconnecting and valuing positively or negatively.

    I agree that Fe is better at consistently maintaining a variety of relationships over long periods of time. It tends to be much better at tracking the momentum and trajectory of relationships, and remembering to check in periodically. No argument there.

    Still, I generally find Vicky Jo's biases to be pretty transparent even when she's trying to be neutral. I don't think her material worthless, but definitely some rebalancing is required in order to glean out any useful bits.


    Both Fe and Fi have their warm/approving/connecty, cold/disapproving/disconnecty bits. Simplistic and biased to think otherwise.

    Addendum: I'm certainly capable of flagellating myself for a long period of time because of some relationship failure. There are some people I don't reach out too mostly because of remaining guilt for things done and things left undone.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member YUI's Avatar
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    Jul 2014


    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    [...] I don't think (this issue in particular) is Fe so much as people-oriented Ni- because TPs, nor SFJs or even ENFJs, don't get hit as bad as we do with this.[...]
    Thanks for the comments, Z.

    I just wanted to comment in turn on the one fragment above. I have an ESFJ brother. I don't think he would flagellate himself for years upon the loss of a friend. But I think issues of personal loyalty will keep him tied to negative or harmful people in his inner circle long past the point where I myself would jettison such people. And I've seen some ENFJs make much of loyalty issues.

    IOW, Fe-users always seem to demonstrate some issue of strong connection with others, sometimes to a harmful degree; the exact nature of the connection varies from type to type, of course.

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