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[MBTI General] Fi/Ti and being nice

wolfy

awsm
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
12,251
I've been wondering why the ISFP descriptions paint a picture of a very soft person, a people pleaser. ISTP on the other hand seem hard in the descriptions. I can see how using Fe would make someone nice but Fi I would think could go either way?

Any ideas?
 

wildcat

New member
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
3,622
MBTI Type
INTP
I've been wondering why the ISFP descriptions paint a picture of a very soft person, a people pleaser. ISTP on the other hand seem hard in the descriptions. I can see how using Fe would make someone nice but Fi I would think could go either way?

Any ideas?
Is it weakness not to please the mob?
 

sarah

soft and silky
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
548
MBTI Type
isfp
I've been wondering why the ISFP descriptions paint a picture of a very soft person, a people pleaser. ISTP on the other hand seem hard in the descriptions. I can see how using Fe would make someone nice but Fi I would think could go either way?

Any ideas?


I wonder about that too, even though I'm one of those soft people-pleaser ISFPs. I would think male ISFPs would probably be more tempted to develop a harder surface personality, because overt displays of sensitivity and vulnerability are unfortunately associated with women in most cultures. And toughness and assertiveness are unfortunately associated with men.

That said, I think ALL men who prefer feeling have a harder time fitting in with society's expectations, whether they prefer Fe or Fi. I once made some lame complaint about men having it easier in this world because they're allowed to be themselves, and my Fe-dominant husband got instantly all upset. He claims that women have far greater options as far as that's concerned (though I notice he also dislikes tough, objective, assertive women, so apparently he's still thinking of just the stereotypically female stuff...)

Perhaps the "softness" motif creeps into type descriptions because it's hard to spend your time tuning in to subjective values all the time and not be sensitive to whether or not those values are hurting or helping other people. In order to actually be less sensitive, you'd have to detach emotionally from it all, which is something most ISFPs would probably find very hard to do (for more than a little while, at least).

Sarah
ISFP
 

wolfy

awsm
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
12,251
Is it weakness not to please the mob?

It is weakness to feel you need to please the mob. Please if it pleases you.
If you choose to displease be aware if you displease a mob things can get ugly.
Cause and effect.
 

millerm277

New member
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
978
MBTI Type
ISTP
ISTP on the other hand seem hard in the descriptions.

That'd be correct. I'm not one who is inclined to give in, or go along just because it would make things easier....and while I like everyone to be happy, I'm not going to do something that goes against my personal opinions to please others.
 

wolfy

awsm
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
12,251
That'd be correct. I'm not one who is inclined to give in, or go along just because it would make things easier....and while I like everyone to be happy, I'm not going to do something that goes against my personal opinions to please others.

I am exactly the same. That's my point. We are like twins or something.
I'm pretty sure I'm ISFP and I feel the same way as you.
 

sarah

soft and silky
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
548
MBTI Type
isfp
I am exactly the same. That's my point. We are like twins or something.
I'm pretty sure I'm ISFP and I feel the same way as you.


I can see both Ti and Fi dominant people agreeing with that. Maybe the ISTPs reject things on principle (?) whereas the ISFPs reject things that contradict their values. I don't see this as hardness -- stubbornness maybe. I'm nice and conciliatory unless for some reason I really don't feel like going along with the crowd, in which case nobody can convince me to do whatever it is I don't want to do. I'm also averse to being pressured into anything, even if it was something I would normally have considered.

Sarah
ISFP
 

Jack Flak

Permabanned
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
9,098
MBTI Type
type
I think Fi people may have more reason not to be nice, since moral values are more likely to be violated, but it's easier for Ti people to be mean. There isn't much emotional investment.
 

heart

heart on fire
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
8,456
That said, I think ALL men who prefer feeling have a harder time fitting in with society's expectations, whether they prefer Fe or Fi. I once made some lame complaint about men having it easier in this world because they're allowed to be themselves, and my Fe-dominant husband got instantly all upset. He claims that women have far greater options as far as that's concerned (though I notice he also dislikes tough, objective, assertive women, so apparently he's still thinking of just the stereotypically female stuff...)

Feeler men seem to use stubborness to appear harder or they put forth a gimmick persona, like being a horndog. Not saying all do, but it seems to happen.
 

Thursday

Earth Exalted
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
3,960
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
8w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Is it weakness not to please the mob?

perhaps foolishness

there can be strength in letting go of ego and conceding
or standing up for one's own values and being courageous in the face of opposition

either way - you've got to be smart, and more often than not do something uncharacteristic of you in order to win
 

wolfy

awsm
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
12,251
I can see both Ti and Fi dominant people agreeing with that. Maybe the ISTPs reject things on principle (?) whereas the ISFPs reject things that contradict their values. I don't see this as hardness -- stubbornness maybe. I'm nice and conciliatory unless for some reason I really don't feel like going along with the crowd, in which case nobody can convince me to do whatever it is I don't want to do. I'm also averse to being pressured into anything, even if it was something I would normally have considered.

Sarah
ISFP

I'm nice and easy going but I wouldn't say I'm conciliatory. Thinking about it now I would say I was conciliatory in my youth.
I wouldn't say it is a false persona or using stubborness more a reaction to the environment. Like a callus.
Like Buck in The Call of the Wild
 

wildcat

New member
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Jun 8, 2007
Messages
3,622
MBTI Type
INTP
perhaps foolishness

there can be strength in letting go of ego and conceding
or standing up for one's own values and being courageous in the face of opposition

either way - you've got to be smart, and more often than not do something uncharacteristic of you in order to win
You have a point.

The underhand of the mob is the society.
The underhand of law is crime.

An uneven hand.
 

Thursday

Earth Exalted
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Mar 14, 2008
Messages
3,960
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ENTJ
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8w9
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sp/sx
You have a point.

The underhand of the mob is the society.
The underhand of law is crime.

An uneven hand.

its hand against hand, and both hands are mine
its standing in a circular line ~ Ani DiFranco
 

Grayscale

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
1,965
MBTI Type
ISTP
there can be strength in letting go of ego and conceding
or standing up for one's own values and being courageous in the face of opposition

it really depends on the reason for doing either, no?


connotation definitely comes into play here.

to me, i am "being nice" if i think i am benefiting someone in a useful way, regardless of how i deliver it.
 

wolfy

awsm
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
12,251
to me, i am "being nice" if i think i am benefiting someone in a useful way, regardless of how i deliver it.

I think almost the same way but will often adapt my approach to the person. To a point at least. I would say communication is the response you get.
 

disregard

mrs
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
7,826
MBTI Type
INFP
I've been wondering why the ISFP descriptions paint a picture of a very soft person, a people pleaser. ISTP on the other hand seem hard in the descriptions. I can see how using Fe would make someone nice but Fi I would think could go either way?

Any ideas?

Being that Fe is the INFP's weakest preference, I always find it strange when people appear to be under the impression that harmony is the be-all end-all of the INFP's existence. "Being polite, being nice, being friendly, being considerate, and being appropriate" are all concerns of Fe! That is a quote from "Extraverted Feeling" at cognitiveprocesses.com.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Being that Fe is the INFP's weakest preference, I always find it strange when people appear to be under the impression that harmony is the be-all end-all of the INFP's existence. "Being polite, being nice, being friendly, being considerate, and being appropriate" are all concerns of Fe! That is a quote from "Extraverted Feeling" at cognitiveprocesses.com.

Fi seems to focus more on the intimate connection. It's sort of like seeing oneself as a unique value-driven person allows someone to (hopefully) see others as the same and extend personal warmth to them. There's a tendency to engage more directly with individuals on their level.

Fe seems to me to still feel more like the "harmony" thing you mention, where you're trying to smooth out the social fabric and have people "play nice" in how they interrelate by following general principles of interaction, and the personal element is not quite necessary to that although helpful.

IxFPs usually seem to want to engage people far more one on one and make the personal and unique connection, rather than being the ones to enforce some broader "system of interaction."
 

millerm277

New member
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
978
MBTI Type
ISTP
ISTP on the other hand seem hard in the descriptions.

For me at least, it's very true. I cannot be convinced to do, or agree with, or change my opinion on, most things, if I don't want to. You can attempt to make arguments to persuade, and I will usually consider them, but there is no way to forcibly make me change, on anything.
 
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