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[ISTP] Istp and feelings from mbti-notes

Poki

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In my case, five years and this has happened twice. What I mean and I think what Poki said too, is that if you're seeing that level emotion/anger, it's like our last resort. We simply do not know how else to communicate but to say what we mean and we will try numerous ways to doing that ( if we care.) and the anger comes from just how overt and direct we are being and there's recognition of that from the other person. In my case, enfp. It's like, "copy. I hear you." then keep doing same shit. So, I think (eventually and over time) enfp has to be paying lip service or just purposely being some kind of a**hole. Now, that's not necessarily a judgement of the person, more disappointing that what they like about you to begin with (blunt sincerity) isn't recognized when it's something difficult for them to look at (conflict avoidant). With every temper shown the situation now *has to change* a decision has to be made and if nothing changes from those decisions, the relationship will deteriorate or ultimately end. So Poki had a point about solution based thinking because that's what it is. Second time this happened with my enfp I made a decision that forced him to make some decisions. You don't have an ISTP explosive temper and go back to the way things were. That's why [MENTION=12103]Poki[/MENTION] said something like atom bomb. It literally changes the landscape of a relationship, friendship whatever.
This is stuff i noticed that IxFx are better at picking up then ExFx. IxFP has that want to understand while IxFJ has the want to have that good solid relationship. With ExFx it comes across as "i dont care", but knowing the type its a multitude of reasons that cause their reaction. None of which can actually be fixed because their stubborn side is to hold onto the perception they created over reasoning. Reasoning is something that while not done purposefully is usually used to support perception with ENFP. Its part of what makes them teflon. Unhealthy is MUCH more teflon then healthy. Basically teflon means nothing sticks.

I have had a convo VERY similiar to what [MENTION=5223]MDP2525[/MENTION] has said with current ENFP. Its a slow learning process where the ENFP has to mentally slow down and become more Fi day in and day out where as typical response is a fall back to a more shallow dab in it a little and then jump to extroverted side.
 

Poki

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Yeah, i get that. I was never long enogh with an istp to have this situation occur, but i have had situations where my intj brought something that bugged him. It typically happens in an off hand comment, meaning i register it as liw priority. Then he ll typically repeat it, making me take more note of it, but when i ask him about it, it gets brushed off. So i go back to my life (coz i need more input to understand how its bothering him and why in order to fix it in a way that would be satisfying for him). This is especially true if we re talking about emotional needs as those are harder to voice for him. Eventually, it ll cone in an explosion and rant, often after ive already adressed the issue - like an abscess that bursts. Over the years, ive learned to just let him rant and soothe him - its just the emotional aftermath, which will heal in time. That said, there have been situations where something bothered him and... i knew it, but what he was asking , although it looked like an easy thing for him, would require a massive feat of personal growth in my part, as it would require a complete repeogramming of who i was. I was typically already trying to figure it out, but in the ebd, it took *years* for me to address it. Thankfully, he realised after some time that this was just something i wasnt able to give him at present. They were typically silly things that seemed like thry should be easy to address, but were alk part of a skillset i just didnt have access to yet. He had to make a hard decision on whether or not he could live with that, wait and potentiallt watch me fail being able to give him that stuff he considered so obvious and easy to do. I ll admit that the man is a saint in the patience department with me. I dunno if this resonates at all, but i just thought id toss it out there just in case.
Only in our extreme cases....but we dont live life to hit extreme and extremem may never fix itself once it has done that. It really does change our outlook and view pretty permanently.

Your respnse aligns with what i said to @MDP2525 awhile back about ISTP/ENFP duals...ENFPs tend to learn skillsets and mindsets to work with the world and that royally jacks up beginings of relationships until things meld together. Our nature matches awesomely...but nurture...thats 100% dependent on what an ENFP has become accustomed to. They will fall back to accustomed to as they get stressed and they end up in relationships that used to stress them but doesnt because they have a "skillset" for it. They trap themselves in the shit. And that reasoning my ENFP gave is "its my shit and i will wallow in it"...my response..."have fun with that, i want better". Followed by "wallowing are we?" When they do that to themselves and i have already mentioned the wallowing concept. The latest was her saying "i am just a woman"...my response was "i am gonna have to use that when i do something that bugs you...well, i am just a man deal with it." That is my bluntness. I dont expect immediate change, but she gets it and she will change over time because she understands it. Application of that understanding is slower and is more like a habit thatvchanges over time.

I guess what i am saying is that its not a "skillset", its a way of life.
 

Amargith

Hotel California
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Only in our extreme cases....but we dont live life to hit extreme and extremem may never fix itself once it has done that. It really does change our outlook and view pretty permanently.

Your respnse aligns with what i said to @MDP2525 awhile back about ISTP/ENFP duals...ENFPs tend to learn skillsets and mindsets to work with the world and that royally jacks up beginings of relationships until things meld together. Our nature matches awesomely...but nurture...thats 100% dependent on what an ENFP has become accustomed to. They will fall back to accustomed to as they get stressed and they end up in relationships that used to stress them but doesnt because they have a "skillset" for it. They trap themselves in the shit. And that reasoning my ENFP gave is "its my shit and i will wallow in it"...my response..."have fun with that, i want better". Followed by "wallowing are we?" When they do that to themselves and i have already mentioned the wallowing concept. The latest was her saying "i am just a woman"...my response was "i am gonna have to use that when i do something that bugs you...well, i am just a man deal with it." That is my bluntness. I dont expect immediate change, but she gets it and she will change over time because she understands it. Application of that understanding is slower and is more like a habit thatvchanges over time.


I'd have trouble with that myself.

I spent a lot of time in my life running and hsve mastered avoidance as an art because i disnt have any other way of coping. Unlearning that is...hard. Took ages, especially as it was a stressoroduced response, much like in a flight animal.

So that kind of approach would just trigger the same response. Nowadays, i can take it better, because i now actually have skillsets besides avoidance, but back when, one of the reasons i loved my intj was because he provided a safe zone for me to be my worst, lick my wounds and process alm that fear in peace - without pressure. In turn, i provided him (or tried to) with the same in the areas where he needed it.

It allowed me to figure our how to stop running and re-program all my false beliefs. It was a massive amount of work that took years - and im still not done. Depebding on how strong the flight response is and how destroyed your sel esteem is, you can take the 'tough love' a lot better.

One thing that makes me flee and resentful when someone does the tough love thing is that...they usually do it about something im already acutely aware of and am already trying my hardest on. Which makes me just want to give up as i ll never be what you want me to be, or so it feels. That said, it works well to create awareness when im confortably blind.

My experience is that istps are usually good at not giving me deadlines and watching closely where im at, to then demostrate the next step theyd take. Then they ll sit back and give me the space to figure it out.

If they push or lose their patience however, it does more damage, so then id rather be left alone to figure it out without soneone breathing down ny neck. Interestingly, i find this to apply to many (I)T's. Ive gotten to the point where i ll tell them to take a hike if they cannot keep that under control coz its counterproductive but it took me a while to get to the point to tell them to take a hike when they get that way because its counterproductive as i was too busy feeling shame for disappointing them. These days, ive learned how i work, so i have no qualms in asking for what i need

Fi is just like Ti in a way - it takes time to completely readjust as you learn more about life. And it requires creativity snd solitude to self-reflect. Where it seems to differ is that it doesnt thrive under pressure. On the contrary, ive found it more akin to the practice of meditation and mindfullness. It can only stand up to pressure once the foundation has become rock solid.

Back to topic, , i find that istps are often too hard on themselves - and ignore the emotional cues their bodies give them.. While i never had the chance, id like to think that what i could contribute in a relationship with one, is the awareness that it is ok to voice your needs, have a melt down and that you dont always have to push yourself to the limit - just like you masterfully can teach us to be more self-reliant through tough love. We would balance each other out that way, i think.
 

Abcdenfp

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I'd have trouble with that myself. I spent a lot of time in my life running and hsve mastered avoidance as an art because i disnt have any other way of coping. Unlearning that is...hard.
unlearning is hard and takes deliberate action forcing your self to do something that feels unnatural and uncomfortable, I struggle with it too because I will avoid conflict or pain like a mother $@&
One thing that makes me flee and resentful when someone does the tough love thing is that...they usually do it about something im already acutely aware of and am already trying my hardest on. Which makes me just want to give up as i ll never be what you want me to be, or so it feels.
I respond the same, if I have made the effort to attempt an adjustment and there is this tough love attitude I shut down, I really flourish from positive reinforcement at this stage, and direct acknowledgement of efforts made
On the contrary, ive found it more akin to the practice of meditation and mindfullness. It can only stand up to pressure once the foundation has become rock solid. Back to topic, , i find that istps are often too hard on themselves - and ignore the emotional cues their bodies give them..
i know there will be push pack to this but I agree that they are totally disconnected from the emotional clues their body's give off.
I was massaging the istp the other day and to test my theory I said where does the stress live " he paused " in my head" no it's not in your head it's in your shoulders and your lower back .. " oh yeah that is tight that does hurt. " or he won't be able to sleep for a couple of days try a Series of solutions when really something is just weighing on him, he let's it out sleeps like a baby. he can't register that no matter if the emotions are relevant or not the body feels and responds accordingly.
While i never had the chance, id like to think that what i could contribute in a relationship with one, is the awareness that it is ok to voice your needs, have a melt down and that you dont always have to push yourself to the limit - just like you masterfully can teach us to be more self-reliant through tough love. We would balance each other out that way, i think. Agreed
 

Poki

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I'd have trouble with that myself. I spent a lot of time in my life running and hsve mastered avoidance as an art because i disnt have any other way of coping. Unlearning that is...hard. Took ages, especially as it was a stressoroduced response, much like in a flight animal. So that kind of approach would just trigger the same response. Nowadays, i can take it better, because i now actually have skillsets besides avoidance, but back when, one of the reasons i loved my intj was because he provided a safe zone for me to be my worst, lick my wounds and process alm that fear in peace - without pressure. In turn, i provided him (or tried to) with the same in the areas where he needed it. It allowed me to figure our how to stop running and re-program all my false beliefs. It was a massive amount of work that took years - and im still not done. Depebding on how strong the flight response is and how destroyed your sel esteem is, you can take the 'tough love' a lot better. One thing that makes me flee and resentful when someone does the tough love thing is that...they usually do it about something im already acutely aware of and am already trying my hardest on. Which makes me just want to give up as i ll never be what you want me to be, or so it feels. That said, it works well to create awareness when im confortably blind. My experience is that istps are usually good at not giving me deadlines and watching closely where im at, to then demostrate the next step theyd take. Then they ll sit back and give me the space to figure it out. If they push or lose their patience however, it does more damage, so then id rather be left alone to figure it out without soneone breathing down ny neck. Interestingly, i find this to apply to many (I)T's. Ive gotten to the point where i ll tell them to take a hike if they cannot keep that under control coz its counterproductive but it took me a while to get to the point to tell them to take a hike when they get that way because its counterproductive as i was too busy feeling shame for disappointing them. These days, ive learned how i work, so i have no qualms in asking for what i need Fi is just like Ti in a way - it takes time to completely readjust as you learn more about life. And it requires creativity snd solitude to self-reflect. Where it seems to differ is that it doesnt thrive under pressure. On the contrary, ive found it more akin to the practice of meditation and mindfullness. It can only stand up to pressure once the foundation has become rock solid. Back to topic, , i find that istps are often too hard on themselves - and ignore the emotional cues their bodies give them.. While i never had the chance, id like to think that what i could contribute in a relationship with one, is the awareness that it is ok to voice your needs, have a melt down and that you dont always have to push yourself to the limit - just like you masterfully can teach us to be more self-reliant through tough love. We would balance each other out that
Sounds like you wanna be the person you want in a relationship. ENFPs are extremely self-reliant...unless you wanna look at nit picky stupid shit that revolve around "others" values and wants. Self protection from self is really what you all need IMHO. I more try to show you how to reach what you want in life...self-reliant is over rated by some people. Caring and kind ENFPs are harder on themselves then an ISTP ever could be, being too hard on yourself is not logically or analytically sound. Its crashes and crumbles bigly.
 

ChocolateMoose123

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I'd have trouble with that myself.

I spent a lot of time in my life running and hsve mastered avoidance as an art because i disnt have any other way of coping. Unlearning that is...hard. Took ages, especially as it was a stressoroduced response, much like in a flight animal.

So that kind of approach would just trigger the same response. Nowadays, i can take it better, because i now actually have skillsets besides avoidance, but back when, one of the reasons i loved my intj was because he provided a safe zone for me to be my worst, lick my wounds and process alm that fear in peace - without pressure. In turn, i provided him (or tried to) with the same in the areas where he needed it.

It allowed me to figure our how to stop running and re-program all my false beliefs. It was a massive amount of work that took years - and im still not done. Depebding on how strong the flight response is and how destroyed your sel esteem is, you can take the 'tough love' a lot better.

One thing that makes me flee and resentful when someone does the tough love thing is that...they usually do it about something im already acutely aware of and am already trying my hardest on. Which makes me just want to give up as i ll never be what you want me to be, or so it feels. That said, it works well to create awareness when im confortably blind.

My experience is that istps are usually good at not giving me deadlines and watching closely where im at, to then demostrate the next step theyd take. Then they ll sit back and give me the space to figure it out.

If they push or lose their patience however, it does more damage, so then id rather be left alone to figure it out without soneone breathing down ny neck. Interestingly, i find this to apply to many (I)T's. Ive gotten to the point where i ll tell them to take a hike if they cannot keep that under control coz its counterproductive but it took me a while to get to the point to tell them to take a hike when they get that way because its counterproductive as i was too busy feeling shame for disappointing them. These days, ive learned how i work, so i have no qualms in asking for what i need

Fi is just like Ti in a way - it takes time to completely readjust as you learn more about life. And it requires creativity snd solitude to self-reflect. Where it seems to differ is that it doesnt thrive under pressure. On the contrary, ive found it more akin to the practice of meditation and mindfullness. It can only stand up to pressure once the foundation has become rock solid.

Back to topic, , i find that istps are often too hard on themselves - and ignore the emotional cues their bodies give them.. While i never had the chance, id like to think that what i could contribute in a relationship with one, is the awareness that it is ok to voice your needs, have a melt down and that you dont always have to push yourself to the limit - just like you masterfully can teach us to be more self-reliant through tough love. We would balance each other out that way, i think.

I'm glad you're in this thread because it is the other side of the coin. Everything you're saying is like, "Yep. I see all that." I can't speak for the INTJ stuff. My brother is an INTJ and I'm nowhere near how he thinks or acts about stuff. I can find him passive aggressive and not all that direct but at the same time very harsh. I think that's Te. Te is efficient and can be very diplomatic but it can also be about "what isn't said" and they want you to fill in the blanks for them. When you don't, it becomes a matter of smart/dumb. I don't play that.


In fact, I'll go so far as to say what ENFP/ISTP have in common at a core level is a mutual respect that we don't like to control or order or any of that or step on toes for whatever sake. It's why we simply state things the way they are. Do you want to do something about this? Or not?

Problem arises when, like you said, the ISTP is honing in on a sensitive area or better yet - that sensitive area of the ENFP affects the ISTP (bingo) and the ISTP cannot just leave it alone. It's encroaching into their space now. You are correct and ENFP avoidance, holy crap yes. You guys are great at it. What I see is not that you cannot recognize any of this but that unless there is fire under your butt sometimes there just isn't a catalyst to do anything about what "you already know". Get stuck in this procrastination thing. IDK....but needless to say, recognizing something is one thing you guys are great at and taking steps to do something about it is not. I think that's where Fi keeps waiting for everything to align perfectly.

ISTP's will tell you - that won't happen. You have to act now, a step at a time. Your mind will catch up to action. Trust us. When the temper comes it's like, oh this is something I need to do something about and depending upon the ENFP they may or may not start doing the things (they know) they need to do because reality says hello.
 

indra

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Read "istp and feelings" and immediately my stomach pitted up
 

Poki

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I'm glad you're in this thread because it is the other side of the coin. Everything you're saying is like, "Yep. I see all that." I can't speak for the INTJ stuff. My brother is an INTJ and I'm nowhere near how he thinks or acts about stuff. I can find him passive aggressive and not all that direct but at the same time very harsh. I think that's Te. Te is efficient and can be very diplomatic but it can also be about "what isn't said" and they want you to fill in the blanks for them. When you don't, it becomes a matter of smart/dumb. I don't play that.


In fact, I'll go so far as to say what ENFP/ISTP have in common at a core level is a mutual respect that we don't like to control or order or any of that or step on toes for whatever sake. It's why we simply state things the way they are. Do you want to do something about this? Or not?

Problem arises when, like you said, the ISTP is honing in on a sensitive area or better yet - that sensitive area of the ENFP affects the ISTP (bingo) and the ISTP cannot just leave it alone. It's encroaching into their space now. You are correct and ENFP avoidance, holy crap yes. You guys are great at it. What I see is not that you cannot recognize any of this but that unless there is fire under your butt sometimes there just isn't a catalyst to do anything about what "you already know". Get stuck in this procrastination thing. IDK....but needless to say, recognizing something is one thing you guys are great at and taking steps to do something about it is not. I think that's where Fi keeps waiting for everything to align perfectly.

ISTP's will tell you - that won't happen. You have to act now, a step at a time. Your mind will catch up to action. Trust us. When the temper comes it's like, oh this is something I need to do something about and depending upon the ENFP they may or may not start doing the things (they know) they need to do because reality says hello.

That joint P makes a huge difference in why we get along as good as we do. Its like we have a similiar outlook that meshes. Bad isnt horrible which makes the good that much better and more stable.

Now that this turned into ISTP/ENFP...lol
 

Poki

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Piss off an ESTP and you may get penises drawn all over your car in retaliation/embarassment if that does it for you.:doh: lol
 

I Tonya

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I'm not sure if I use feelings through a logical standpoint. I can be more emotional than my ISTP male counterpart because I am that nurturing female type. I appreciate when others use logic when I am addressing feelings since it makes sense to me. I have a hard enough time on my own understanding them.

My Ti just means I prefer to spend my time looking at organized methods exampled like education/ cooking/ engines/ companies and think of more efficient ways to fix problems I see; I'm attracted to flaws. As for feelings, there is no system... Its all organic. Responding to them is a trait that takes practice. If I do address my feelings its using a fair system. Mostly straightforward decisions, WHICH NEEDS PERFECTION FROM OUTSIDE RELIABLE SOURCES, but goes something like this: if it hurts, is it good or bad; if good continue, if bad stop and cut off source. If I ignore, it will lead to bad so I gotta deal with it RIGHT AWAY. I don't always know if its good or bad or if it even hurts which complicates things.

Its cringe but I try to treat others feelings immediately, the way I do mine, and prefer if others did the same to me...not dismiss. This may seem a bit too much, but I have come from such a far off system and values... growing up where pushing how I feel down and becoming too busy dealing with tasks forced in front I never learned how to develop these "think about how you feel" values, more so ignore as much as you can. Now that I've matured I learned to value taking time thinking about how you feel and the effects on feelings.
 
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