[ESTP] Inner INFJ

[greenfairy]

Briefly describe moments when your inner INFJ comes out.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I'm not really sure, because I'm not an ESTP, but I've gotten a good handle on my inner ESFJ.

 

[greenfairy]

I'm not really sure, because I'm not an ESTP, but I've gotten a good handle on my inner ESFJ.

Cool. I or someone will do a thread about that.

 

[uumlau]

Actually, they'd have more of an "inner ENFJ". All letters except E/I flip.

Reasons?

1) The tertiary is stronger than the inferior.
2) There would also appear to be a switch from dominant perceiving to dominant judging (or vice versa) which Dario Nardi's EEG research bears out to some degree, having found adult musician INFJs having a very strong ISTP (not ESTP) signature.

As for how, it'll be later in life, sometimes much later in life. Not everyone makes the transition to tertiary and inferior. Some people just stay in dominant and auxiliary.

In those cases where it does happen, it's often hard to see at first. It isn't as if an intuitive suddenly becomes a sensor or a sensor suddenly becomes intuitive. It's very gradual. For ESTPs (and ESFPs to a degree), you'll start noticing them gradually becoming more insightful. But it's weird. I see it a lot on facebook, where older Se doms post those things that they find insightful/inspiring. To me, it doesn't look that insightful, almost trite - like the kinds of thoughts I had in high school. But then I realize, "Oh, they're just STARTING to think like that," and it all makes sense. I'm very careful to not criticize them. (Yes, this sounds as condescending as hell, but it can't be helped: it's inferior Ni vs dom Ni. Contrariwise the Se doms totally defeat my inferior Se. Fair's fair.)

Speaking more generally ENFPs gradually develop ESTJ traits (kind of funny and annoying at the same time), ENTPs develop ESFJ traits (one much older ENTP I worked with was totally a mother hen, bringing food and offering it to people, even as he regularly flexed his ENTP argumentative muscles). I as an INTJ have developed ISFP traits (I dance of course, and somehow figured out Fi along the way, somewhere) - but I'm not that good at being ISFP, it's still new to me. INFJs gradually develop ISTP traits: every INFJ has an "inner bad-ass", if you think about it.

Anyway, I hope this helps!

 

[greenfairy]

Actually, they'd have more of an "inner ENFJ". All letters except E/I flip.

Reasons?

1) The tertiary is stronger than the inferior.
2) There would also appear to be a switch from dominant perceiving to dominant judging (or vice versa) which Dario Nardi's EEG research bears out to some degree, having found adult musician INFJs having a very strong ISTP (not ESTP) signature.

As for how, it'll be later in life, sometimes much later in life. Not everyone makes the transition to tertiary and inferior. Some people just stay in dominant and auxiliary.

In those cases where it does happen, it's often hard to see at first. It isn't as if an intuitive suddenly becomes a sensor or a sensor suddenly becomes intuitive. It's very gradual. For ESTPs (and ESFPs to a degree), you'll start noticing them gradually becoming more insightful. But it's weird. I see it a lot on facebook, where older Se doms post those things that they find insightful/inspiring. To me, it doesn't look that insightful, almost trite - like the kinds of thoughts I had in high school. But then I realize, "Oh, they're just STARTING to think like that," and it all makes sense. I'm very careful to not criticize them. (Yes, this sounds as condescending as hell, but it can't be helped: it's inferior Ni vs dom Ni. Contrariwise the Se doms totally defeat my inferior Se. Fair's fair.)

Speaking more generally ENFPs gradually develop ESTJ traits (kind of funny and annoying at the same time), ENTPs develop ESFJ traits (one much older ENTP I worked with was totally a mother hen, bringing food and offering it to people, even as he regularly flexed his ENTP argumentative muscles). I as an INTJ have developed ISFP traits (I dance of course, and somehow figured out Fi along the way, somewhere) - but I'm not that good at being ISFP, it's still new to me. INFJs gradually develop ISTP traits: every INFJ has an "inner bad-ass", if you think about it.

Anyway, I hope this helps!

Interesting theory, and I think that makes a lot of sense! I do however, agree with Naomi Quenk in her book about inferior functions that when we are in the grip of the inferior we can act like a poorly developed version of our functions upside down, so there is at least that incidence when we have an inner opposite type. It probably is right that more often the E/I doesn't flip. I at least feel much more like an ISTP than ESTP.

For me I would share an example that I tend to push myself when I work out and think "Limitations are all in your head! Go hard or go home!" and then my body doesn't cooperate, and I have to be like, well that's only partly true. This could be ISTP too I suppose.

 

[uumlau]

Interesting theory, and I think that makes a lot of sense! I do however, agree with Naomi Quenk in her book about inferior functions that when we are in the grip of the inferior we can act like a poorly developed version of our functions upside down, so there is at least that incidence when we have an inner opposite type. It probably is right that more often the E/I doesn't flip. I at least feel much more like an ISTP than ESTP.

For me I would share an example that I tend to push myself when I work out and think "Limitations are all in your head! Go hard or go home!" and then my body doesn't cooperate, and I have to be like, well that's only partly true. This could be ISTP too I suppose.

Oh, the inferior definitely erupts in an extroverted way for introverts. I'd say the ISTP is more "integrated" way it differentiates/evolves, while the ESTP is the "out of control" way it erupts.

 

[miss fortune]

Interesting concept, but I'm going to have to go with what [MENTION=9310]uumlau[/MENTION] said and go with enfj over infj for this

I do the people handling part of my job at work, since I tend to be a bit warmer than my direct supervisor and I have to be good at making all of the people in various positions comfortable with the work they have been assigned, motivated to do the work they have been assigned (though half the time I'm the one who assigned the jobs because I can keep track of everyone's strengths, weaknesses and preferences quite well) and convinced that it was exactly what they want to be doing... I also have to be able to foresee anything that may come up to make things NOT run smoothly and figure out how to stop that from happening before it happens. When I was out for a month everyone realized what my other role there was... that I'm the only one who can get along with everyone if necessary and can get them to work together without fighting all of the damned time I'm quite good at fulfilling my role.

I was also the one who wrote a training manual once that contained lines like "and don't do that for fuck's sake because that's just an asshole move"... but that's just probably Fe in general

on here I tend to recognize some of my own thoughts in posts by a few of the ENFJs on an almost disturbingly regular basis To their defense, I tend to say those things in a much less nice manner

 

[Neshama]

In Socionics, converted for MBTI, INFJ and ESTP are considered duals. So Socionics suggests an E/I flip.

 

[Ribonuke]

For a while, my inner INFJ was so strong that I thought I WAS an INFJ...taking SSRIs for 6 or 7 years crushing my libido didn't help either!

Both of my parents are xNFJs
My entire school was an INFJ Montessori set-up that emphasized a sort of social, ideological 'oneness' with eachother and the rest of the world
My best friend from 1st through 8th grade was an xNFP, so when I mimicked her NF-ness, I often became more like an INFJ.

My INFJ comes out mainly in the fact that I try to think ahead and not bite off more than I can chew when trying new things, because I tend to get irritable and destructive when I find myself in a situation that I don't think I can get out of without it resulting in some form of confrontation (like, someone getting mad at me for wanting to leave a party "too soon"). It also comes across as me stone-walling peoples' new ideas because I often lapse into Ni-Fe where I worry about how their consequences will impact other people (but I'm mostly just wanting to get them to avoid the drama.)

In other words, I'm very VERY much in touch with my inner INFJ.

 

[uumlau]

For a while, my inner INFJ was so strong that I thought I WAS an INFJ...taking SSRIs for 6 or 7 years crushing my libido didn't help either!

Both of my parents are xNFJs
My entire school was an INFJ Montessori set-up that emphasized a sort of social, ideological 'oneness' with eachother and the rest of the world
My best friend from 1st through 8th grade was an xNFP, so when I mimicked her NF-ness, I often became more like an INFJ.

My INFJ comes out mainly in the fact that I try to think ahead and not bite off more than I can chew when trying new things, because I tend to get irritable and destructive when I find myself in a situation that I don't think I can get out of without it resulting in some form of confrontation (like, someone getting mad at me for wanting to leave a party "too soon"). It also comes across as me stone-walling peoples' new ideas because I often lapse into Ni-Fe where I worry about how their consequences will impact other people (but I'm mostly just wanting to get them to avoid the drama.)

In other words, I'm very VERY much in touch with my inner INFJ.

I see another factor at play in your case. I'm starting to believe that Enneagram is a stronger influence on one's superficial personality than MBTI, because it describes how you instinctively react emotionally, and that's going to set the overall tone of your personality, no matter which cognitive functions are in play.

As a type 4, that's going to make you appear to be very INF, even if you're an ESTP.

Does this fit your experience?

 

[Ribonuke]

I see another factor at play in your case. I'm starting to believe that Enneagram is a stronger influence on one's superficial personality than MBTI, because it describes how you instinctively react emotionally, and that's going to set the overall tone of your personality, no matter which cognitive functions are in play.

As a type 4, that's going to make you appear to be very INF, even if you're an ESTP.

Does this fit your experience?

Most definitely; and I can't thank you ENOUGH for not calling my MBTI type into question over it. I get really annoyed when people see it as 'mutually exclusive' are all like "Are you SURE you're an ESTP?" on account of the Enneagram 4 coming into play.

But I still fall into INFJ patterns when trying to help/understand where people are coming from, due to learning through experience that using my normal communication style, especially on forums, doesn't always work out to my advantage--or, for that matter, anyone else's.

 

[uumlau]

Most definitely; and I can't thank you ENOUGH for not calling my MBTI type into question over it. I get really annoyed when people see it as 'mutually exclusive' are all like "Are you SURE you're an ESTP?" on account of the Enneagram 4 coming into play.

You're quite welcome!

If I knew you IN PERSON, I might question your self-typing, especially with the drastic change. But if so, that would be because I'd see something (again, in person) that didn't match up with your self assessment. But online, there are no subtle signals to read, and typed words don't reflect personality that much, especially with the ability to spend time editing them.

So online, I always go with self-typing, and then provide people the implications of that type, and they'll either think it fits or it doesn't.