• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[MBTI General] S descriptions of Ns?

Blackwater

New member
Joined
May 29, 2007
Messages
454
MBTI Type
ERTP
And you don't think that ESP types do this?

Yes and no. You can easily make the MBTI contradict itself.

Sensers naturally and effortlessly connect concrete sense input in the here and now whereas Intuitives connect mental entities from memory with whatever they think is going on around them.
 

Usehername

On a mission
Joined
May 30, 2007
Messages
3,794
Topic: S/N : details/big picture


As an INTJ, when I have a project/goal to accomplish (think, like, a class project, not something huge like a life goal) I near-instantly plan out something; I can do details like that no problem. I can spell out clear, direct, (linear, if you will) specific tasks taht everyone has to do to accomplish these goals.

Do I just have a well-balanced 'S' skills, or is there depth to the definition that we are missing? Certainly an iNtuitive who can deal with details (but just prefers to have more vision and big picture) is still N.

I think we possibly need to add more depth to the definitions.
 

The Ü™

Permabanned
Joined
May 26, 2007
Messages
11,910
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I think a strong iNtuitive could still be good with detail work, but their focus is on the big picture, not the enjoyment. An NJ would probably be better at it than the NP.
 

Natrushka

Pareo cattus
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
1,213
MBTI Type
INTJ
See, when I describe N and S along these lines, my Sensing friends and acquaintances (except for the ones with vocational education) usually think they're N. :doh: How does one explain the N/S dimension to a Senser holding, say, a Master's Degree in humanities so that they self-select as Sensing? I sometimes feel like I'm (indirectly) saying "So, essentially, this is the preference that, all else equal, would make the best (insert their academic profession here), and this is the preference that is better for doing something more practical/concrete. Which preference do you think you have?" :(

A litle late to the party, but what the hell.

I've seen three "iNtuitives" become "Sensors" once they took the real test. The N/S aspect can be difficult to understand.

I need to read the rest of this thread.
 
Last edited:

Natrushka

Pareo cattus
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
1,213
MBTI Type
INTJ
Topic: S/N : details/big picture


As an INTJ, when I have a project/goal to accomplish (think, like, a class project, not something huge like a life goal) I near-instantly plan out something; I can do details like that no problem. I can spell out clear, direct, (linear, if you will) specific tasks taht everyone has to do to accomplish these goals.

Do I just have a well-balanced 'S' skills, or is there depth to the definition that we are missing? Certainly an iNtuitive who can deal with details (but just prefers to have more vision and big picture) is still N.

I think we possibly need to add more depth to the definitions.


Keirsey says of the INTJs "Masterminds arrange things in coherent and comprehensive sequential order, that is, they coordinate operations by making efficient schedules, with each item entailing the next, as a necessary precursor or consequence. Moreover, Masterminds make contingency plans for keeping their schedules on track." INTJS and ENTJS are Strategic Coordinators - quick to judge and make schedules. Coordinators determine who is to do what at a given time and place.

In dealing with the big picture(N), you are taking into account the details (S)
 

wildcat

New member
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
3,622
MBTI Type
INTP
Good point ... I've never seen it explained this way ... but it makes sense to me.
A good point yes.. and exhibionistic, self revealing..

Control and direction. I knew it I knew it! Beware of these TJs. They all have the Te at the top function unit. Te-Ni or Ni-Te or Te-Si or Si-Te.

That is why his name is Uberfuhrer, see?
 

Splittet

Wannabe genius
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
632
MBTI Type
INTJ
Why not just explain Si, Se, Ni and Ne in an easy fashion?

Sensing is either living in the moment (Se) or the moment generating visions of the past (Si).

Intuiting is either the moment generating ideas of possibilities (Ne) or visions of the future (Ni).

(You guys can probably give better definitions, but method and not definitions are the point here. On the other hand, listening to an INTJ about how to explain things, especially this one, might in general be a bad idea.)

Then one might say sensors tend to me concrete, intuitives abstract. Sensors tend to focus on details, intuitives on the big picture and so on.

But really it is not strange it is hard to explain intuiting and sensing, since they both consist of two concepts. How do you explain two concepts as one? That's kind of artificial, isn't it?
 

FFF

Fight For Freedom
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
691
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9
How come nobody in here seems to be clearly acknowledging the fact that many sensors can have a lot of intuitiion and many intuitives can have a lot of sensing?

The I__P and the E__J crowd have their second and third processes as both perceiving processes. For example the INTP has Ne and then Si and the ENTJ has Ni and then Se. I know three ENTJs very well (one of them is my brother), and their apparent feeding of Se was confusing to me when I didn't acknowledge the value of the third process. These ENTJs just seem to really love experiences a lot, especially for people who are more of intuitive thinkers.

The I__J and E__P crowd have a shadow perceiving process of their primary perceiving process. For example an ENTP has the primary process of Ne, but the shadow of that is Se. I know an ENTP very well, and he seems to be a lot more concerned with extroverted sensing than I am. That is probably because Se is the shadow process of Ne.

There's also a lot of people who have a good balance of intuition and sensing. An ENTJ might have a nearly equal balance of Ni and Se. An ENTP or ESTP might have a nearly equal balance of Ne and Se making for an ExTP.

The point of this all is that if you describe intuition to sensors, there's a good chance they will acknowledge their third process or the shadow of the primary process, and think they're an intuitive. Although, the latter seems less likely, since that'd be like an INTP getting confused as to whether they're an INFP or not (side note: recent posts of mine involve my confusion as to whether I should've been an INFP, but I don't think I match the INFP profile very well at all).
 

Splittet

Wannabe genius
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
632
MBTI Type
INTJ
ImNotTooPopular certainly has a good point. You can see it if you test your cognitive functions. It's not like one score sky high on two and 0 on the rest ...
 

wildcat

New member
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
3,622
MBTI Type
INTP
ImNotTooPopular certainly has a good point. You can see it if you test your cognitive functions. It's not like one score sky high on two and 0 on the rest ...
What is the medial function order of the INTJs perceptible in the tests?
 

Splittet

Wannabe genius
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
632
MBTI Type
INTJ
I don't know, but I could give you my results from Understanding the Eight Jungian Cognitive Processes / Eight Functions Attitudes , just to give you an idea anyway:

extraverted Sensing (Se) ************************* (25.3)
average use
introverted Sensing (Si) ************************ (24.2)
average use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ********************************** (34.5)
good use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ************************************** (38.3)
excellent use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ********************************** (34.5)
good use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ************************************ (36.7)
excellent use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ****************** (18)
limited use
introverted Feeling (Fi) **************************** (28.1)
average use
 

The Ü™

Permabanned
Joined
May 26, 2007
Messages
11,910
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I don't know, but I could give you my results from Understanding the Eight Jungian Cognitive Processes / Eight Functions Attitudes , just to give you an idea anyway:

extraverted Sensing (Se) ************************* (25.3)
average use
introverted Sensing (Si) ************************ (24.2)
average use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ********************************** (34.5)
good use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ************************************** (38.3)
excellent use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ********************************** (34.5)
good use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ************************************ (36.7)
excellent use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ****************** (18)
limited use
introverted Feeling (Fi) **************************** (28.1)
average use

That is probably the best personality assessment on the Internet.
 

FFF

Fight For Freedom
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
691
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9
Actually, a lot of people end up with these processes mixed up in an order that doesn't seem to suggest any of the 16 types exactly.

I took that test a while ago and ended up with Ti first, Ne second, Si third and Fe last, and that definitely suggests INTP.
 

The Ü™

Permabanned
Joined
May 26, 2007
Messages
11,910
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Why not just explain Si, Se, Ni and Ne in an easy fashion?

Sensing is either living in the moment (Se) or the moment generating visions of the past (Si).

Intuiting is either the moment generating ideas of possibilities (Ne) or visions of the future (Ni).

(You guys can probably give better definitions, but method and not definitions are the point here. On the other hand, listening to an INTJ about how to explain things, especially this one, might in general be a bad idea.)

Then one might say sensors tend to me concrete, intuitives abstract. Sensors tend to focus on details, intuitives on the big picture and so on.

But really it is not strange it is hard to explain intuiting and sensing, since they both consist of two concepts. How do you explain two concepts as one? That's kind of artificial, isn't it?

The way I see it is that both Si and Ni look to the past, but for different reasons. I think that "generating visions of the future" sounds too "supernatural" for purposes of personality assessment. I think Ni is more like reviewing past experiences to generate ideas and possibilities.

Ni is also abstraction directed inward, and so it is the function that desires intellectual stimulation. Ne is abstraction directed outward, and so it's the expression of ideas -- making it the function of creative imagination.

NOTE: Creativity is really not related to imagination or Intuition, when you think about it. I believe that it's any of the Extraverted functions that are creative, because creativity is directed in the outer world.

This site sums up the functions in a way that I am quite fond of.
 

Splittet

Wannabe genius
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
632
MBTI Type
INTJ
The way I see it is that both Si and Ni look to the past, but for different reasons. I think that "generating visions of the future" sounds too "supernatural" for purposes of personality assessment. I think Ni is more like reviewing past experiences to generate ideas and possibilities.

Ni is also abstraction directed inward, and so it is the function that desires intellectual stimulation. Ne is abstraction directed outward, and so it's the expression of ideas -- making it the function of creative imagination.

NOTE: Creativity is really not related to imagination or Intuition, when you think about it. I believe that it's any of the Extraverted functions that are creative, because creativity is directed in the outer world.

Very good points. I would definitely say Ne is the most creative function. It is interesting to debate if Se or Ni is more creative though. And I don't feel the word creative is very descriptive of Ni, I think it can be very visionary though.

When it comes to types and creativity I think the word creative some times get tossed around too much, but I have very high standards for what I consider creative. Do I consider 25-35 % (N percentage) of the population creative? Not nearly. I would perhaps consider 10 % of the population pretty creative.

Absolutely loved the link, by the way. ;)
 

The Ü™

Permabanned
Joined
May 26, 2007
Messages
11,910
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
A good point yes.. and exhibionistic, self revealing..

Control and direction. I knew it I knew it! Beware of these TJs. They all have the Te at the top function unit. Te-Ni or Ni-Te or Te-Si or Si-Te.

That is why his name is Uberfuhrer, see?

Especially be aware of the xNTJs. Like many of history's xNFJs, the xNTJs also have a dream...but the xNTJs are just not as nice! ;)
 

The Ü™

Permabanned
Joined
May 26, 2007
Messages
11,910
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Very good points. I would definitely say Ne is the most creative function. It is interesting to debate if Se or Ni is more creative though. And I don't feel the word creative is very descriptive of Ni, I think it can be very visionary though.

When it comes to types and creativity I think the word creative some times get tossed around too much, but I have very high standards for what I consider creative. Do I consider 25-35 % (N percentage) of the population creative? Not nearly. I would perhaps consider 10 % of the population pretty creative.

Absolutely loved the link, by the way. ;)

Yeah, as an Ni, I have abstract visions in my mind, but I have trouble communicating them more concretely, except through the use of words and perhaps directing others and such. I often like to draw, but the pictures I created on paper are not quite the way I imagined them in my head.

I think that's the main difference between Ni and Ne. Ne has an easier time bringing their inner conceptions into reality because they have better spatial skills, so an Ne is probably more proficient in art, inventing, and the detail work involved in realizing a personal Intuitive vision.
 

Lookin4theBestNU

New member
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
801
MBTI Type
ENFj
Enneagram
2w3
Imnottoopopular said:
Actually, a lot of people end up with these processes mixed up in an order that doesn't seem to suggest any of the 16 types exactly.
Agreed. I have taken the test a couple of times which always results being Ni dominant with Fi being a close second making me an INFJ by their estimates. It also says I have average use of both Ti & Te which isn't true either.
 

wildcat

New member
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
3,622
MBTI Type
INTP
I don't know, but I could give you my results from Understanding the Eight Jungian Cognitive Processes / Eight Functions Attitudes , just to give you an idea anyway:

extraverted Sensing (Se) ************************* (25.3)
average use
introverted Sensing (Si) ************************ (24.2)
average use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ********************************** (34.5)
good use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ************************************** (38.3)
excellent use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ********************************** (34.5)
good use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ************************************ (36.7)
excellent use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ****************** (18)
limited use
introverted Feeling (Fi) **************************** (28.1)
average use
Appreciated. You are not much of a J.. apart from the Ni.
 

Splittet

Wannabe genius
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
632
MBTI Type
INTJ
Appreciated. You are not much of a J.. apart from the Ni.

Yeah, but results aren't 100 % perfect... But true, my J has grown much weaker in just the past year. I am kind of into an existential and identity crisis. I have less focus.
 
Top