[ISTP] Why are words considered a luxury to the ISTP?

[Amargith]

I believe it is around 70, with 20 to paraverbal and 10 for verbal, but yeah, it is the majority of most communications.

 

[skylights]

I believe it is around 70, with 20 to paraverbal and 10 for verbal, but yeah, it is the majority of most communications.

Shoot. That's interesting. I think my own communication is like 50% paraverbal. It'd explain a lot.

Fascinating to think about. My ISTP brother is very good at reading and responding to nonverbal cues.

 

[badger055]

Grin.

You guys seem to notice things - moods, movements, glances. You use them yourself. You automatically mimic their body language, and usually exude a calm and confidence that most herd animals will consider reassuring, if you aint going after them as a predator, and will make a predator think twice before considering you prey.

You look at women in the same way - and influence them that same way.

After all, body language makes up the largest part of our communication - even for those that aren't aware of it, or skilled at it.

I've never needed to talk to an ISTP to know if he was for me. All I needed was an evening of eye contact, observation and syncing up. And they seem to need not much more.

Have you ever seen that show suits? There is an ENFP character named donna on there. That's how I picture you.

 

[Randomnity]

My ISTP brother doesn't like to "waste" talk, if that makes sense. He just doesn't feel like talking or hearing others talk if he doesn't see a point in the content of conversation, something he's said explicitly before. But he'll talk quite normally about things that matter to him, whether that be biochemistry or where to take our next family vacation. The "why" of it I assume is at least in part due to precise Ti plus not being into Ne possibility-spinning. He likes to say meaningful things and he likes to hear others say meaningful things and beyond that he'd rather pay attention to other interesting things.

Exactly this. A lot of people seem to talk to hear the sound of their own voice. I don't get that. Both in forums and IRL I don't usually talk unless I actually have something to say, which is not really all that often. Why do we need to be talking all the time? Why can't we listen, think, or observe for a while instead?

Edit: Do you think an ISTP female INFJ male relationship could work?

This kind of came out of nowhere, but sure, I know it can. I dated an INFJ briefly, and was in the awkward semi-dating zone for awhile with another INFJ. I think any type can date any type though.

edit: I think this might apply more to strongly Ti-dominant ISTPs, whereas the ones with stronger Se might be more chatty. Not coincidentally, Ti strength would tend to correspond with more strongly introverted ISTPs.

 

[Amargith]

Have you ever seen that show suits? There is an ENFP character named donna on there. That's how I picture you.

I have. And thank you

 

[The Great One]

[MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION]

Non-talkers drive me INSANE! Granted, I am a very talkative person and I love to talk so I am bias, but still. How else are you supposed to communicate with someone? Osmosis of thought? This has always confounded me. I'll see people who are good friends, but they talk very little to each other (from what I can observe). It's like... how do you know about the person? How does your friendship build? Is it magic? Where's the voodoo doll?

Kidding aside, this really does confound me. I actually want to know from non-talkers. How do you build relationships? Though I should point out, there is a difference between someone who is a quiet listener, and someone who just doesn't talk much. A quiet listener, prefers to listen and let the other person speak. But, they offer up feedback and will continue the discussion (I have a few friends like this, I do get strained sometimes but that's my own problem). They will share what they think, just not readily and it needs to be prompted. Someone who doesn't talk is someone who does have thoughts, but just doesn't feel compelled or want to speak them, or they just don't care. I just... I don't get it at all.

(I think this is independent of type, but I do agree this seems to be somewhat common amongst ISTP's).

I've noticed that ISTP's tend to not be talkers, but instead tend to be doers. It seems that the way that you bond with the ISTP is to do activities with them. Such activities could include going to bar and drinking with them, playing sports with them, playing video games with them, having sex with them, etc.

This stereotype makes me reconsider my boyfriend's type because he can talk a lot when he feels like it. Loves arguing and bullshitting and telling stories. I'm way less talkative, especially in social situations.

I wouldn't even call this one a stereotype but just a universal attribute of ISTP types. Every ISTP I've ever met has been like this.

They probably find you frivolous and annoying. But yea I hate small talk and probing questions. The general rule is I don't like using my Fe in any way unless it's negative. Crude jokes, shared hatred, pushing boundaries and talking about shared experiences is what I prefer. The easiest way to make me hate you is to start asking me how I'm doing or how my weekend was.

Yes I've noticed this. So are you saying that to better get along with ISTP's, I should avoid talking about feelings with them altogether and that I should also avoid asking them any PERSONAL feeling-type questions? I guess ISTP's would really hate Fi-ish questions then as well that would ask them to reach deep inside themselves and reveal something that no one else would have known about them?

Well I guess you can get two different versions of me depending on if I like you. If I don't like you then there is like this brick wall you can't get past. I won't even see you as a person more like an object to interact with like an ATM machine. Any attempts to connect with me to make you seem more human just piss me off. With best friends it's completely different I get to be myself the real unfiltered me.

I do have a lot of thoughts but they aren't worth sharing with the wrong people and yea 99% of the time I just don't give a fuck. I guess it has to do with being self sufficient and not giving up personal information gives a tactical advantage over your enemies. My friendships are usually built on shared experiences like how soldiers in the army become close friends.

How can you ever view a person as a machine without feelings? That is just so foreign to me? How is that possible?

My ISTP brother doesn't like to "waste" talk, if that makes sense. He just doesn't feel like talking or hearing others talk if he doesn't see a point in the content of conversation, something he's said explicitly before. But he'll talk quite normally about things that matter to him, whether that be biochemistry or where to take our next family vacation. The "why" of it I assume is at least in part due to precise Ti plus not being into Ne possibility-spinning. He likes to say meaningful things and he likes to hear others say meaningful things and beyond that he'd rather pay attention to other interesting things.

So then because it is illogical to waste time talking about feelings and meaningless shit, he views it as a waste of time?

 

[entropie]

words are for those who have something to say

 

[The Great One]

this thread needed to be made. thank you

I want to tell half of the ISTPs I meet "this isn't The Walking Dead. I'm not a zombie, stop having a gut center staredown with me and let's have a conversation"

LMAO it's so true.

 

[The Great One]

This needs to be posted...

 

[badger055]

Yes I've noticed this. So are you saying that to better get along with ISTP's, I should avoid talking about feelings with them altogether and that I should also avoid asking them any PERSONAL feeling-type questions? I guess ISTP's would really hate Fi-ish questions then as well that would ask them to reach deep inside themselves and reveal something that no one else would have known about them?

Yes in an ISTP's world feelings are gay. I like deep questions just more the Ti kind not the Fi kind.

How can you ever view a person as a machine without feelings? That is just so foreign to me? How is that possible?

Well it's like to me the only people who exist are the people in my world. Everyone else can burn for all I care. I don't have enough Fe to care about random people.

 

[The Great One]

[MENTION=16476]badger055[/MENTION]

So how are feelings gay? Do you even know that you have feelings or are you even aware of them, or is it that you have them, but just don't like to talk about them? Also, so you don't mind asking questions about how you work per say, and don't mind being taking apart like a piece of machinery. However, when asked to talk about yourself and who you are deep inside (fi style) it pisses you off? See that's my problem, I'm not sure if I like to understand myself for Ti reasons of understanding how I work or Fi reasons of understanding who I am deep inside.

Well it's like to me the only people who exist are the people in my world. Everyone else can burn for all I care. I don't have enough Fe to care about random people.

I'm not sure if that's an ISTP thing or a social-last thing. However, it can probably be correlated to both since most ISTP types tend to be social last

 

[badger055]

So how are feelings gay?

I don't know they just are. Try not to think about it too much.

Do you even know that you have feelings or are you even aware of them, or is it that you have them, but just don't like to talk about them? Also, so you don't mind asking questions about how you work per say, and don't mind being taking apart like a piece of machinery. However, when asked to talk about yourself and who you are deep inside (fi style) it pisses you off? See that's my problem, I'm not sure if I like to understand myself for Ti reasons of understanding how I work or Fi reasons of understanding who I am deep inside.

No I'm not really aware of them. I'm mostly only aware of the extreme ones and if my mood shifts. If you ask about my deep feelings you are asking about something that doesn't exist. I honestly don't even know what people are talking about when they say they have all these complicated feelings all the time. It's mostly just calmness all the time for me. And yes taking my personality apart is fine.

 

[yeghor]

I don't know they just are. Try not to think about it too much.

I guess in male IxTP's eyes, it's not masculine to feel...it's a sign of weakness...and femininity...

No I'm not really aware of them. I'm mostly only aware of the extreme ones and if my mood shifts. If you ask about my deep feelings you are asking about something that doesn't exist. I honestly don't even know what people are talking about when they say they have all these complicated feelings all the time. It's mostly just calmness all the time for me. And yes taking my personality apart or making cold observations like "marriage is bullshit" is fine.

I've seen my ISTP coworker boiling inside angry... He denies being so and tries to feel better (read: powerful/masculine) again by lashing at others...

 

[Werebudgie]

Yes in an ISTP's world feelings are gay. I like deep questions just more the Ti kind not the Fi kind.

"Gay" as in attracted to the same gender? Feelings are attracted to other feelings of the same gender? That makes no sense. Maybe you mean something else by the word?

 

[badger055]

I've seen my ISTP coworker boiling inside angry... He denies being so and tries to feel better (read: powerful/masculine) again by lashing at others...

Yea anger would fall under my extreme emotions. It's pretty bad.

"Gay" as in attracted to the same gender? Feelings are attracted to other feelings of the same gender? That makes no sense. Maybe you mean something else by the word?

I will let the ultra gay seal demonstrate the word gay.

 

[Werebudgie]

I will let the ultra gay seal demonstrate the word gay.

That doesn't demonstrate anything to me about its meaning.

 

[á´…eparted]

Considering like 90% of communication is non-verbal I can see why not talking very much can still make you a good communicator with people. People say I give great massages even though I hardly give them, non verbal kinesthetic skill is where I shine.

I mean, I am the inverse type of you, so it's no surprise that this feels kind of alien to me. I totally am on board with most communication being nonverbal but without words, I see it as inconsistent and hard to read. Further, a lot of the time it's a strain to read. I'll do it (I have to) but without words to go along with things, it's like eating a cake with no flour; an important piece is missing.

What do you learn of a person through stuff like a massage? I might be able to pick up a few things, but not much. TBH, people like this actually make me uncomfortable (well, they can anyway). Not that that's a bad thing, it just triggers a stress response cause I don't get it.

 

[badger055]

That doesn't demonstrate anything to me about its meaning.

Well I'm not your english tutor so you're on your own.

I mean, I am the inverse type of you, so it's no surprise that this feels kind of alien to me. I totally am on board with most communication being nonverbal but without words, I see it as inconsistent and hard to read. Further, a lot of the time it's a strain to read. I'll do it (I have to) but without words to go along with things, it's like eating a cake with no flour; an important piece is missing.

What do you learn of a person through stuff like a massage? I might be able to pick up a few things, but not much. TBH, people like this actually make me uncomfortable (well, they can anyway). Not that that's a bad thing, it just triggers a stress response cause I don't get it.

I didn't even realize I used a lot of body language but I guess I do. I have this weird ability to just stare someone down and read them like a book based off their tonality/behaviour/reactions and it's all done subconsciously. Maybe you should be uncomfortable since I can basically stare into peoples souls.

 

[yeghor]

That doesn't demonstrate anything to me about its meaning.

I believe they consider (showing) feelings as a sign of weakness... And in the wild, animals who exhibit signs of weakness ends up being a prey rather than a predator...

Those strong in Fe I believe on the other hand are inclined to form herds (read: society) rather than living solitary lifestyles...

So Se = carnivore, Fe= herbivore...

 

[yeghor]

I believe they consider (showing) feelings as a sign of weakness... And in the wild, animals who exhibit signs of weakness ends up being a prey rather than a predator...

Those strong in Fe I believe on the other hand are inclined to form herds (read: society) rather than living solitary lifestyles...

So Se = carnivore, Fe= herbivore...

An ENTJ friend developed this taste and hunger for red meat around his 30s (which I guess coincides with his Se-tert developing)... So do Se-doms\aux have a specific hunger for red meat?