[ISTP] ISTPS at TypeC

[Amargith]

I don't see the contradiction.

At least for me I don't feel like you need to duck and cover on this one, I'm not upset by your question but it seems motivated less by actual curiosity and more by the desire to prove a point or possibly get back at someone who you feel slighted you? So...just come out with it, Amar.

It was fueled by curiosity, considering the difficulty we have around here keeping S's around. You guys do stick out, in a way.

The other part was a tongue-in-cheek joke, due to feeling like I was stepping into the lions' den to ask the resident pride why they would even live in such a place, without knowing if they would be hungry or not

For the record - I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts!

 

[Society]

I came across a dilemma in my typing as I am both ISTp in socionics and MBTI ISTP. Socionics uses SI Te for ISTp and as I read through the socionics descriptions I am definitely not ISTJ in that system. There are bits and pieces in that I agree I am TI and then there are some where I think I am Si. Both socionics and MBTi have their own idea of the functions and this is why I think there is a conflict between the two systems. I don't think I will ever come to a conclusion until I read Jungs book or find significant information on how Jung types since he is the originator after all. When I find extra time I will definitely do this. I actually think Te does wonder around because Te finds pleasure in manipulating it's external environment. In order to do this you needs to know the nature of your external environment "SI".

i have had the same happen to me (ENTP and ENTp). but then looking at the socionics functions descriptions, for each block, their using the same words as MBTI to describe altogether different things - they are not really describing the same functions.

 

[Azure Flame]

Difference between ISTP and ISTJ.

I'm also simultaneously describing socionics ISTp and ISTj.

The functions between the systems ARE the same. If you analyze both systems, you'll realize that the MBTI articles are often inconsistent with the functional definitions. The articles are usually describing the manifestation of the functions of the other personality (J/P are switched).

Introverted sensing is a very aesthetic function, and the idea that it has to do with "rules" is bollocks, that's Te and Ti. Doesn't make any sense. A lot of stereotypes would portray ISFP's as big hippies who are very chill. Then we transfer over to ESFP and suddenly you get a very aggressive in your face and intense personality. Its inconsistent. ISFP's are often viewed as the most committed of SP's in relationships. Their primary function is a JUDGING function, and they often look very closed off to the world, up until they go to the club and start taking ecstasy and dancing their asses off and sleeping around with everyone they met that night... lol.

ISFJ's (MBTI) on the otherhand are very much the same flavor as ENTP. They can be quiet and stoic but have a very goofy sense of humor and barely take themselves seriously. They're usually quite lighthearted as well (unless they're E4, which is kinda rare in my experience).

ISTJ's are very aesthetically inclined and get frustrated over chaotic aesthetic elements. Loud noises, bad smells, etc. ISTP's are actually the rule makers and look very rigid in appearance. For example: celebok on youtube is an ISTP (many disagree because he's so rigid, but this is a manifestation of his primary Ti, a very order seeking function).

The only reason ISTP's are thought of as jocks or sporty is because of the ESTP's who think they're ISTP's... like myself, or the occasional ISTP athlete with more of a focus on Se than Ti. Those are the ones we're more used to.

Wrong.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

[MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION]

Quite a few ISTPs from another typology site are making their way here. Hence, increase in numbers.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

that's Ti for you... which reminds me: we've debated this in the council chambers, and i think there's a general consensus that ISTPs should join the NT club.

My personal belief is a lot of the ISTPs on here are INTPs or INTJs.

 

[Society]

My personal belief is a lot of the ISTPs on here are INTPs or INTJs.

i wouldn't jump to that conclusion so fast, my experience is that if it's a thinker/perceiver in an intellectual TiNi dance, it usually is an ISTP. its just that a lot of them are... well, have more shared interest with what you find in the NT junkyard then with other SPs.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

i wouldn't jump to that conclusion so fast, my experience is that if it's a thinker/perceiver in an intellectual TiNi dance, it usually is an ISTP. its just that a lot of them are... well, have more shared interest with what you find in the NT junkyard then with other SPs.

Its based upon my observations over time not a jump. Also its why the preface of personal opinion was listed.

I don't believe in the whole TiNi loop thing. That may explain moments in an ISTPs life (Ni creeps in as paranoia and doubt) but not a prolonged period of time. That makes no sense (to me). When under stress I have escaped into Ti (without Ni) or Se ( without Ti filters) not skipped it and gone to Ni and lingered there.

If someone is typing themselves as ISTP in a "loop" they are mistyped. But I can understand why people would not agree with this. There seems to be two sides on the loop issues. People who believe it and those who don't. So that's where I'm coming from.

 

[Society]

Its based upon my observations over time not a jump. Also its why the preface of personal opinion was listed.

I don't believe in the whole TiNi loop thing. That may explain moments in an ISTPs life (Ni creeps in as paranoia and doubt) but not a prolonged period of time. That makes no sense (to me). When under stress I have escaped into Ti (without Ni) or Se ( without Ti filters) not skipped it and gone to Ni and lingered there.

If someone is typing themselves as ISTP in a "loop" they are mistyped. But I can understand why people would not agree with this. There seems to be two sides on the loop issues. People who believe it and those who don't. So that's where I'm coming from.

i don't think Ji->Pi loops happen when you are stressed, i think they happen when you are under-stimulated: Se isn't getting enough new input for Ti to explore so Ti goes to the next source in line.

i am also not of the mindset that loops are inherently unhealthy, FYI. it's a natural part of development and learning to engage are lower functions.

ofcourse i'm (probably) not an ISTP, so that's just my 2 cents.

 

[Poindexter Arachnid]

It was fueled by curiosity, considering the difficulty we have around here keeping S's around. You guys do stick out, in a way.

Got a problem with that?

The other part was a tongue-in-cheek joke, due to feeling like I was stepping into the lions' den to ask the resident pride why they would even live in such a place, without knowing if they would be hungry or not

Yeah, and it wasn't funny.
Try harder next time.

Fuck's sake.

For the record - I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts!

Quit smoking crack.

 

[Amargith]

You seriously have some rage towards our breed, it seems. That is a pity really, as I find that ISTPs and ENFPs tend to play well together when there is a mutual understanding.

 

[Giggly]

Quite a few ISTPs from another typology site are making their way here. Hence, increase in numbers.

Oh goody. I looove ST's.

 

[Poindexter Arachnid]

I don't have to explain myself to you.

 

[Bamboo]

It was fueled by curiosity, considering the difficulty we have around here keeping S's around. You guys do stick out, in a way.

The other part was a tongue-in-cheek joke, due to feeling like I was stepping into the lions' den to ask the resident pride why they would even live in such a place, without knowing if they would be hungry or not
...

C'mon Amar, you didn't just ask "Hey, ISTPs why do y'all come and hang out here?"

I'm not on Duck's wavelength really, but your question was still pointed.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm inclined to trust myself on this one. You wanted to stir up some coals to see if there was anything still hot. Nothing wrong with that really, just...well I respect your diplomacy but it seems disgenuine here. Could be a tonality thing, but you can see the disconnect, yeah?

I sometimes call people out (sometimes a good thing) or (over)analyze, sure.

 

[Amargith]

I was being straightforward. My attempt to joke apparently set off the Ni-bs detector though

My bad.

 

[Bamboo]

I was being straightforward. My attempt to joke apparently set off the Ni-bs detector though

My bad.

Meh, I'll just leave it.

 

[jixmixfix]

Difference between ISTP and ISTJ.

I'm also simultaneously describing socionics ISTp and ISTj.

The functions between the systems ARE the same. If you analyze both systems, you'll realize that the MBTI articles are often inconsistent with the functional definitions. The articles are usually describing the manifestation of the functions of the other personality (J/P are switched).

Introverted sensing is a very aesthetic function, and the idea that it has to do with "rules" is bollocks, that's Te and Ti. Doesn't make any sense. A lot of stereotypes would portray ISFP's as big hippies who are very chill. Then we transfer over to ESFP and suddenly you get a very aggressive in your face and intense personality. Its inconsistent. ISFP's are often viewed as the most committed of SP's in relationships. Their primary function is a JUDGING function, and they often look very closed off to the world, up until they go to the club and start taking ecstasy and dancing their asses off and sleeping around with everyone they met that night... lol.

ISFJ's (MBTI) on the otherhand are very much the same flavor as ENTP. They can be quiet and stoic but have a very goofy sense of humor and barely take themselves seriously. They're usually quite lighthearted as well (unless they're E4, which is kinda rare in my experience).

ISTJ's are very aesthetically inclined and get frustrated over chaotic aesthetic elements. Loud noises, bad smells, etc. ISTP's are actually the rule makers and look very rigid in appearance. For example: celebok on youtube is an ISTP (many disagree because he's so rigid, but this is a manifestation of his primary Ti, a very order seeking function).

The only reason ISTP's are thought of as jocks or sporty is because of the ESTP's who think they're ISTP's... like myself, or the occasional ISTP athlete with more of a focus on Se than Ti. Those are the ones we're more used to.

Wrong.

Yeah I don't agree with what you just said. The functions of both systems are clearly different if you look into socionics it's like another world. In socionics an INTJ can be an ENTJ or an INTP etc any type can be any other type and if you ask most people on 16types.info they will tell you this. ESTP's who think they are ISTP's? how does that make them more jockey? why would ESTP's be more into sports than ISTP's? From my experience there is quite a balance between most S types when it comes to sports. I say sports are more of an "S" activity than anything else it just depends on the person who enjoys them. ISTPs don't look very rigid at all they are actually pretty aloof. They are very much into their sensing environment so they tend to have a bit of ADD naturally this makes their appearance to be much more focused than the ISTJ which has nothing to do with looking "rigid". If you compare and ISTJ athlete to an ISTP athelete you will notice how much more rigid the ISTJ athlete plays while the ISTP is free flowing chart the course. ISTj's are much more forceful much like the ESTp which is why they are considered Se TI types in socionics. ISTp's are actually the opposite they avoid force to conserve their energy and wait for the right moment to use it aka they go against the grain while the ISTj goes with the grain (they tend to follow a straight line of reasoning).

Consider this example. Both the ISTj and ISTp have crossed a route or road before that was fairly exhausting to get through. On the way back they both see another 2 different routes however the 2 different routes are both unknown to them. The ISTj will pick the route that is most familiar to him even though the road is muddy the rocks are bumpy and takes a significant amount of energy to get through. The ISTp on the other hand see's two different routes and notices that they look fairly clear, no rocks or bumps and the grass is green however he has never been there. He will pick the route not traveled. The functional process of the ISTj is feeling comfortable with whats already familiar to him or already known "TI" and pushing through forcefully against all the muddy rocks and crap on the way "Se". The functional process of the ISTp is understanding the nature of the 2 different routes "Si" and choosing strategically through the various ones he will go through "Te". ISTj logic = goes with whats familiar even with a great amount of resistance. ISTp logic = choosing the path unfamiliar to get the least amount of resistance or effort.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

i don't think Ji->Pi loops happen when you are stressed, i think they happen when you are under-stimulated: Se isn't getting enough new input for Ti to explore so Ti goes to the next source in line.

i am also not of the mindset that loops are inherently unhealthy, FYI. it's a natural part of development and learning to engage are lower functions.

ofcourse i'm (probably) not an ISTP, so that's just my 2 cents.

Interesting thought. I'm not sure how developmentally this threshold of boredom would manifest itself. It would have to bypass natural "instincts". What defines this state of boredom? How long does this last? What causes them to bypass Se for that extended period of time?

Because that lack of initiative (boredom) expresses itself as unnatural or a depressive or stressful state in most any type.

 

[Poindexter Arachnid]

I'm not on Duck's wavelength really...

Nobody is. Go form monosyllabic words with your alphabet soup, kid.

 

[Society]

Interesting thought. I'm not sure how developmentally this threshold of boredom would manifest itself. It would have to bypass natural "instincts". What defines this state of boredom? How long does this last? What causes them to bypass Se for that extended period of time?

Because that lack of initiative (boredom) expresses itself as unnatural or a depressive or stressful state in most any type.

might if i invite the person who brought this possibility to my attention? yes?? awesome. no? too late:

[MENTION=15886]jontherobot[/MENTION] - what do you think drove you to pay more attention to Ni?

 

[WALMART]

might if i invite the person who brought this possibility to my attention? yes?? awesome. no? too late:

[MENTION=15886]jontherobot[/MENTION] - what do you think drove you to pay more attention to Ni?

Wonder for the unexplained, inconclusive facets of my universe. I prefer objective experience and tales of such, but at times one is simply not afforded the luxury.