[MBTI General] Why is ISTP like NT?

[RaptorWizard]

Of all of the sensing types ISTP seems to be by far the weirdest. First of all look at that type's functions TiSeNiFe. Hold up, Ti and Ni? Those are the 2 most insane functions in all of MBTI! Anyone with both of those combined will have a setup for total madness. Surely then ISTP could far more easily be confused for an N type than of the other Ss. Also ISTP is the 2nd most logical of all the types behind only INTP! ISTPs as well seem to be very poor socially like lots of INT types are while all of the other SPs are super cool popular people. I could easily be an ISTP too! Lots of people say I am in a TiNi loop! ISTPs are always studying and observing the world, endlessly thinking, observing, gethering information and theorizing about the real nature of the Universe.

 

[jixmixfix]

ISTPs are often misunderstood. Also how are INTPs any more logical than ISTPS?

 

[Totenkindly]

I think ISTPs are raw Ti without being bogged down by resonances of what might be like INTPs -- they see what is and state it, as-is. INTPs tend to conjecture more.

 

[jixmixfix]

I think ISTPs are raw Ti without being bogged down by resonances of what might be like INTPs -- they see what is and state it, as-is. INTPs tend to conjecture more.

This is interesting what do you mean by conjecture more?

 

[StephMC]

I think ISTPs are raw Ti without being bogged down by resonances of what might be like INTPs -- they see what is and state it, as-is. INTPs tend to conjecture more.

That about sums up the major differences as I see it.

But to answer the OP, Ti may appear as a pretty NT thing all by itself. I would venture a guess and say that Se may be hard for some ISTPs to develop, whether it be a dependence on Ti, their environment, the people around them, their career/major, etc. ESTPs may sometimes appear a little NT too, but dom Se makes it less so.

 

[MXZCCT]

ISTP's are very raw and rough around the edges.
Our Ti-Ni loops can be dangerous to our mental health if the loop is carried too far. The loop is the only time an ISTP can get "caught up" in anything, and where our similarities to NT's really seem shine through.

 

[Totenkindly]

This is interesting what do you mean by conjecture more?

Well, it's pretty simple, I think -- we end up speculating about various places where the rabbit hole might go based on the principles we recognize, rather than focusing on where the rabbit hole in front of us is actually going or where it went the last time we followed it.

I think you'll see this in threads, where ISTPs tend to be much more succinct in their posting style and describe exactly what happened and draw conclusions from that, whereas the INTPs sometimes get caught up in what something might have meant. The logic rules themselves (Ti) can be pretty similar otherwise.

 

[Poindexter Arachnid]

I have always maintained that ISTPs were the most "intuitive" of the sensors. The reason?
As stated, Ti and Ni. In sequence, those two functions scream "N."

And yes. That loop is brutal and will kill us.
We need Se. We need stimulation or we go bonkers.

 

[jixmixfix]

Well, it's pretty simple, I think -- we end up speculating about various places where the rabbit hole might go based on the principles we recognize, rather than focusing on where the rabbit hole in front of us is actually going or where it went the last time we followed it.

I think you'll see this in threads, where ISTPs tend to be much more succinct in their posting style and describe exactly what happened and draw conclusions from that, whereas the INTPs sometimes get caught up in what something might have meant. The logic rules themselves (Ti) can be pretty similar otherwise.

Hm I wonder what my posting style is like I've always been borderline "N" in tests.

 

[pv255]

me: ive been observing the premise of everything you say
and think i came up with a good comparison
Sent at 11:10 AM on Tuesday
me: when you drive a car, the car moves, that is the conclusion, a moving car.
Sent at 11:13 AM on Tuesday
me: if someone asked you to identify the premise of the moving car, you innately uses your senses to determine the cause of a moving car.
Sent at 11:14 AM on Tuesday
me: Se: the car moves because i put my foot on the gas pedal.
Sent at 11:16 AM on Tuesday
me: instinctual Ne answer: the car moves because the engine exerted a torque on the wheel and frictional force between the tires and the road over came the inertia of the car.
Stephanie: yeah I'd say that's about accurate
you should post that in the ISTP vs INTP thread.
me: now, we're both right
Sent at 11:19 AM on Tuesday
me: but given specific purpose, one answer can be more right than the other and vice-versa
Sent at 11:20 AM on Tuesday
me: answers have a purpose
if a bear is chasing you and you need to know something... ask the istp
if you are sitting around, bored, and feel like doing something... ask the intp
Stephanie: "more appropriate" may be a better phrase than "more right"
one cannot be more right if both answers are right
me: same difference
Stephanie: nnnnnnnnnnno!

but yes, I agree
with the ISTP/INTP difference
it's good.
post either here: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/mbti-tm-other-personality-matrices/49453-istp-like-intp.html
or here: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/sp-arthouse/57784-why-istp-like-nt.html
go!

 

[StephMC]

me: ive been observing the premise of everything you say
and think i came up with a good comparison
Sent at 11:10 AM on Tuesday
me: when you drive a car, the car moves, that is the conclusion, a moving car.
Sent at 11:13 AM on Tuesday
me: if someone asked you to identify the premise of the moving car, you innately uses your senses to determine the cause of a moving car.
Sent at 11:14 AM on Tuesday
me: Se: the car moves because i put my foot on the gas pedal.
Sent at 11:16 AM on Tuesday
me: instinctual Ne answer: the car moves because the engine exerted a torque on the wheel and frictional force between the tires and the road over came the inertia of the car.
Stephanie: yeah I'd say that's about accurate
you should post that in the ISTP vs INTP thread.
me: now, we're both right
Sent at 11:19 AM on Tuesday
me: but given specific purpose, one answer can be more right than the other and vice-versa
Sent at 11:20 AM on Tuesday
me: answers have a purpose
if a bear is chasing you and you need to know something... ask the istp
if you are sitting around, bored, and feel like doing something... ask the intp
Stephanie: "more appropriate" may be a better phrase than "more right"
one cannot be more right if both answers are right
me: same difference
Stephanie: nnnnnnnnnnno!

but yes, I agree
with the ISTP/INTP difference
it's good.
post either here: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/mbti-tm-other-personality-matrices/49453-istp-like-intp.html
or here: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/sp-arthouse/57784-why-istp-like-nt.html
go!

I feel so exposed.

...

 

[Totenkindly]

me: answers have a purpose
if a bear is chasing you and you need to know something... ask the istp
if you are sitting around, bored, and feel like doing something... ask the intp

How silly.

If you are sitting around, bored, and feel like doing something, and ask an INTP, I bet his answer nine times out of ten (after hemming and hawing) will be, "Uh... gee, I dunno... what do YOU want to do?"

The ISTP will meanwhile say, "Hell, let's go bungee off a bridge [or something other active answer]".

I'd just ask the INTP for esoteric information if you want to understand how something works... or how it might work when the answer isn't obvious... i.e., the principles, or how the principles might apply in various circumstances.

 

[Phoenix]

I think ISTPs are raw Ti without being bogged down by resonances of what might be like INTPs -- they see what is and state it, as-is. INTPs tend to conjecture more.

Ever met an ISTP in a Ti-Ni loop

The results are things like Illuminati and New World Order ... Now that's conjecture

Oh .. and that Woody Harrelson character from 2012 fits the bill for a classic Ti-Ni loop.

 

[rav3n]

Ever met an ISTP in a Ti-Ni loop

The results are things like Illuminati and New World Order ... Now that's conjecture

Oh .. and that Woody Harrelson character from 2012 fits the bill for a classic Ti-Ni loop.

A perma-banned member called RedScorpion was an ISTP in a Ti-Ni loop. Freaky like nothing else.

 

[Totenkindly]

Ever met an ISTP in a Ti-Ni loop

Well, to me that's a different issue / exception issue.

I'm describing the difference between normal ISTP and INTP processing, in terms of how the Ti function manifests.

 

[Phoenix]

Well, to me that's a different issue / exception issue.

I'm describing the difference between normal ISTP and INTP processing, in terms of how the Ti function manifests.

Oh and you were right. I should've pointed out that Ti with Ne is more positive in the connections and conjecture drawn .. whereas an ISTP will almost always struggle with their iNtuition because of it being in the tertiary position - coming up with relatively negative scenarios and explanations.

 

[Istbkleta]

normal ISTP and INTP processing, in terms of how the Ti function manifests.

BS. If "normal" is "standard" or "average" then it's useless cause then who says what's "normal" but your own subjective experience with it or some made up stat data that some intern pulled out of her/his ass.

Plus, functions are not set in stone, they slush around and re-intertwine with each other in the person constantly.

Plus all functions are ever present and unconscious ones surface from time to time.

It's not impossible for all this to lead to what u call "ISTP" to resemble at a given time what you call "INTP" or "ISFJ" or what-not.

I can't believe I have to correct an INTP on accuracy (JK!)

This MBTI sux so much, trust an INFP (Mayers) to screw up an ISTP's (Jung) theory with that crude Te. I wish we had more serious socionics (ENTP) representation in the west.

 

[pv255]

How silly.

If you are sitting around, bored, and feel like doing something, and ask an INTP, I bet his answer nine times out of ten (after hemming and hawing) will be, "Uh... gee, I dunno... what do YOU want to do?"

The ISTP will meanwhile say, "Hell, let's go bungee off a bridge [or something other active answer]".

I'd just ask the INTP for esoteric information if you want to understand how something works... or how it might work when the answer isn't obvious... i.e., the principles, or how the principles might apply in various circumstances.

i joke. my point was about urgency.

 

[Totenkindly]

BS. If "normal" is "standard" or "average" then it's useless cause then who says what's "normal" but your own subjective experience with it or some made up stat data that some intern pulled out of her/his ass.

Plus, functions are not set in stone, they slush around and re-intertwine with each other in the person constantly.

Plus all functions are ever present and unconscious ones surface from time to time.

It's not impossible for all this to lead to what u call "ISTP" to resemble at a given time what you call "INTP" or "ISFJ" or what-not.

I can't believe I have to correct an INTP on accuracy (JK!)

I can't believe i need to point out that you're missing the forest for the trees.

... or maybe I do believe it.

Seriously, though, why bother discussing typology at all, if we take things to your extreme? All the things you mention are caveats, which have to be taken into account, but either there are patterns in behavior that are still discernible overall, or there are not. If not, let's just close the forum and go home.

You're so caught up in small deviations in detail that you're missing the patterns; we're actually talking about fluid (not rigid) categories, that take these things into account overall.

i joke. my point was about urgency.

Ah, gotcha.

 

[Istbkleta]

I can't believe i need to point out that you're missing the forest for the trees.

... or maybe I do believe it.

Seriously, though, why bother discussing typology at all, if we take things to your extreme? All the things you mention are caveats, which have to be taken into account, but either there are patterns in behavior that are still discernible overall, or there are not. If not, let's just close the forum and go home.

You're so caught up in small deviations in detail that you're missing the patterns; we're actually talking about fluid (not rigid) categories, that take these things into account overall.

I wasn't clear, sry.

But I do NOT want to spend pages arguing over each term, learned my lesson with INTPs

I meant the variations are so many AND these functions are experienced by each individual in a subjective way (not proper term, imagine it) that trying to break it down would be like: the whole -> sum of the parts ->analyze parts
I can't do that cause it feels like missing many points in the step of sum of the parts -> whole.

I am working more with a "feel" cause that's what I got. That's my point. Breaking it down imo doesn't work for ppl like us who do it as a hobbies, Beebe might pull it off.
Cause these functions are experienced internally by the individual and are not objective functions.