[ISTP] ISTPs-two questions

[sculpting]

Hello ISTPs,

I had two questions-my exmom-in-law and my ex husband are both ISTPs.

1. Do you find to concentrate on one sound-like a phone convo-you have to turn off other sounds around you? Do you find having multiple sounds around you creates tension and annoyance?


2. Can you explain why the below situation might be okay from the ISTP perspective?

Situation: I asked the ex-ISTP to give me and the kids a ride to the train station. He said sure. We are actually on really great terms, no fighting or anything. He shows up to pick us up in his new girlfriends car with his girlfriend. Then we had an oddly ackward drive to the train station. It wasnt as though the were going anywhere or he had to have her that...more like he just wanted her to come along???


Another time I asked him to take my son to my home to feed my dogs while I was on a business trip. He, instead, made the gf take my son over and the gf got to see my house, in all of its messy glory.

He also volunteers her for other things-like watching the kids or picking me up for the train station (I'll be taking a cab.)

The funny thing is that I would totally celebrate holidays with the gf around, go out to dinner, take her out for drinks, or spend social time without an issue and she seems nice and my kids like her and I am happy for him and her....but it seems like he is actually using her as a person to hand off tasks he is helping me with-thus leaving me in her debt, which makes me very uncomfortable, given it places a burden on her.

Can you shed light on what he might be thinking?

 

[ZtX]

1. Yes.
2. Why would that not be okay?

 

[Randomnity]

1. Do you find to concentrate on one sound-like a phone convo-you have to turn off other sounds around you? Do you find having multiple sounds around you creates tension and annoyance?
Absolutely.

2. Can you explain why the below situation might be okay from the ISTP perspective?

Situation: I asked the ex-ISTP to give me and the kids a ride to the train station. He said sure. We are actually on really great terms, no fighting or anything. He shows up to pick us up in his new girlfriends car with his girlfriend. Then we had an oddly ackward drive to the train station. It wasnt as though the were going anywhere or he had to have her that...more like he just wanted her to come along???


Another time I asked him to take my son to my home to feed my dogs while I was on a business trip. He, instead, made the gf take my son over and the gf got to see my house, in all of its messy glory.

He also volunteers her for other things-like watching the kids or picking me up for the train station (I'll be taking a cab.)

The funny thing is that I would totally celebrate holidays with the gf around, go out to dinner, take her out for drinks, or spend social time without an issue and she seems nice and my kids like her and I am happy for him and her....but it seems like he is actually using her as a person to hand off tasks he is helping me with-thus leaving me in her debt, which makes me very uncomfortable, given it places a burden on her.

Can you shed light on what he might be thinking?

If you know the gf well enough to spend time together I'm not sure why the first one is a problem....it would be weird if you hadn't met before. It is weird if he isn't there too, though (unless you know the gf really well already). Maybe he's just lazy and doesn't see why it bugs you. Have you told him that it does?

 

[Bamboo]

A possible behind the scenes factor here is that something in their relationship is causing this trading off.

That is, maybe his girlfriend prefers that he doesn't interact with you in certain ways, or he feels uncomfortable so he designates someone else.

This is totally uninformed, but that's the first thing that I thought of. She doesn't like him having so much one on one time with you, so there is tension between them. As a gesture, he tells her to come along on the drive to pick you up or to take care of tasks.

Just a guess, no idea if that's anywhere near right.

 

[ZtX]

I have a little more time now, so let's take it point by point.
I agree with Bamboo that there might be reasons/problems you're not aware of, but there are also a few very straight-forward points to think about.

Situation: I asked the ex-ISTP to give me and the kids a ride to the train station. He said sure. We are actually on really great terms, no fighting or anything. He shows up to pick us up in his new girlfriends car with his girlfriend. Then we had an oddly ackward drive to the train station. It wasnt as though the were going anywhere or he had to have her that...more like he just wanted her to come along???

So he has a new girlfriend and wants to spend time with her. Car time is quality time: You have enough to think about so you don't get restless, but at the same time you're actually just sitting with another person with plenty of time to talk.
He had a specific task to do with you and your kids, and after that they were free to do whatever they wanted. Perhaps he just didn't feel like riding back alone? Or perhaps they had planned to do something else after dropping you off and it just never occurred to him that you might be interested in what they had planned, or he just figured it's on a need to know basis and you don't need to know? The latter is pretty typical for introverted thinkers.

Another time I asked him to take my son to my home to feed my dogs while I was on a business trip. He, instead, made the gf take my son over and the gf got to see my house, in all of its messy glory.

If you don't want people to see your house in a messy state, keep it clean. If you don't have the time for that (which I have no reason to question if you have kids), at least accept the fact that things like this will happen now and then. I mean, please: He's got a girlfriend. If he's anything like me, his girlfriend is his best friend - you simply don't live with a person if you can't have that person around all the time. Why on earth would he make a difference between doing you a favor or asking his best friend to do him a favor by helping another friend of his out, if he found that he'd got double-booked for some reason or other?

He also volunteers her for other things-like watching the kids or picking me up for the train station (I'll be taking a cab.)

To me this sounds more like you have a problem with her than with "what he might be thinking". Which is alright, but in that case, be straight with him instead of asking others what his problem might be. The problem seems to lie on your side.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

1) yes.

2) If he has a new girlfriend then I'm sure that is normal for him to have her help him out with his (and your) children. He is simply moving on with his life. Provided the girlfriend is a stable and good person to be around your children - which you state she is - I don't see such an issue. You are not in her debt. I don't understand why you would think so.

The girlfriend picking you up from the train station thing is sort of weird. I don't know whose idea this was originally but this is something I see having a friend or family member to do rather than an ex or girlfriend of ex.

It's possible he might feel you still have feelings for him and he might want to keep some distance between you and him and is allowing the girlfriend to take over some of the things asked of him so that in the future it won't be asked of him. As in a passive way of cutting those ties that aren't directly concerning the children. Just a thought and I could be completely wrong.

 

[DoctorYikes]

1. Big-time definitely. I'm almost impossible to communicate with when there are neighborhood kids rampaging through the house, the TV is on, the cat is yowling at something, etc. You have to get my full attention before I'm going to be able to process what you're saying to me.

2. Maybe a little odd for me personally, but it'd depend on quite a few more variables before I could really thumbs-up or thumbs-down the situation. Coin toss for me.

 

[sculpting]

Thanks guys, these comments were very helpful-especially from the best friend aspect. Just to clarify-I have only met the girlfriend about four times for very short periods of time. She is very nice but I think you guys are correct, that part of the problem is me-I am very hesitant to ask someone else to do something for me or burden them in the first place. I dont ask for help unless I really need help pretty badly most of the time. Given they are his kids I dont feel too bad asking him for things, but to have the burden then passed on feels very strange to me. It may be I need to not ask him for things as I may be taking advantage of our history for my own purposes-instead I need to just board the dogs or take cabs and such.

Thanks!!

 

[turtile]

If I care about what I'm working on/listening to, I can easily tune out everything else. I think sound isolation is more of a male/female thing rather than personality.

His girlfriend may be insisting to help out.

 

[freeeekyyy]

If I care about what I'm working on/listening to, I can easily tune out everything else. I think sound isolation is more of a male/female thing rather than personality.

His girlfriend may be insisting to help out.

I think it is a male/female thing, but it's a male/female thing because it's a personality thing. I've heard that men are more likely than women to be SP or NJ. That means they're more likely to use Se, which is very highly attuned to the environment, and has a difficult time separating one stimulus from another. It's not unique to ISTPs, but I don't think it's something NPs or SJs struggle with as much.

I could be wrong though, I'm not an expert in human biology.

 

[tkae.]

Thanks guys, these comments were very helpful-especially from the best friend aspect. Just to clarify-I have only met the girlfriend about four times for very short periods of time. She is very nice but I think you guys are correct, that part of the problem is me-I am very hesitant to ask someone else to do something for me or burden them in the first place. I dont ask for help unless I really need help pretty badly most of the time. Given they are his kids I dont feel too bad asking him for things, but to have the burden then passed on feels very strange to me. It may be I need to not ask him for things as I may be taking advantage of our history for my own purposes-instead I need to just board the dogs or take cabs and such.

Thanks!!

I don't know...

I'm kind of with you on this one. I just get the feeling that it's almost like a trophy sort of thing, that he's using his new girlfriend to kind of remind you of your new place in his life, and that someone else is in that spot. Sending her to take your son to feed the dogs is almost like he's trying to get her and your son to bond more, which is okay I guess. But it was unnecessary for him to pick you up in her car with her there if he wasn't out with her already and was just swinging by.

It's just too hinky.

Even just driving her car whether she was there or not. That'd be odd. But her actually being there is just too over the top.

Or maybe, from the consensus ISTP reaction, he's just emotionally oblivious and doesn't realize that anything's wrong with the incredibly awkward situations he's creating. Cause I mean... how many kids do you have? Or even if there's just two, the bare minimum for use of the word "kids" (as it's plural), that'd put you and your two kids -- three people -- in the back of the car, assuming it's a standard car that seats four people, and him and his girlfriend up in the front seat.

That's a power trip right there. That's either a blatant power trip, or it's another example of him being so inconsiderate that he's openly oblivious to common sense that three people in the back of a four-person vehicle (owned and occupied by the "new" woman in his life) would possibly be uncomfortable.

You can be logically oblivious (Feelers), or you can be emotionally oblivious (Thinkers), but it's just too hinky that he'd be an outright idiot.

Unless it seated more than four people?

 

[sculpting]

I think it is a male/female thing, but it's a male/female thing because it's a personality thing. I've heard that men are more likely than women to be SP or NJ. That means they're more likely to use Se, which is very highly attuned to the environment, and has a difficult time separating one stimulus from another. It's not unique to ISTPs, but I don't think it's something NPs or SJs struggle with as much.

I could be wrong though, I'm not an expert in human biology.

I think you are correct about the Se part perhaps...I have noted anecdotal instances of INTJs being hyepr sensitive to certain stimuli but it feels to be more like smells or textures. My INTJ ex dad-in-law actually noted to sound issue about his ISTP wife. She cant talk on the phone and have the car AC on or she gets really anxious. and irritated. My ISTP ex would never eat dinner at the table with us because he couldnt handle the sound of other people chewing food. It does make me wonder if there could be a diff in the ISTP vs INTJ because in the ISTP Se is related more to Ti where in the INTJ, Se is more releated to Fi....thus perhaps sound is more Ti impactful while scent and touch is more Fi impactful. But that is totally out there...

I don't know...

I'm kind of with you on this one. I just get the feeling that it's almost like a trophy sort of thing, that he's using his new girlfriend to kind of remind you of your new place in his life, and that someone else is in that spot. Sending her to take your son to feed the dogs is almost like he's trying to get her and your son to bond more, which is okay I guess. But it was unnecessary for him to pick you up in her car with her there if he wasn't out with her already and was just swinging by.

It's just too hinky.

Even just driving her car whether she was there or not. That'd be odd. But her actually being there is just too over the top.

Or maybe, from the consensus ISTP reaction, he's just emotionally oblivious and doesn't realize that anything's wrong with the incredibly awkward situations he's creating. Cause I mean... how many kids do you have? Or even if there's just two, the bare minimum for use of the word "kids" (as it's plural), that'd put you and your two kids -- three people -- in the back of the car, assuming it's a standard car that seats four people, and him and his girlfriend up in the front seat.

That's a power trip right there. That's either a blatant power trip, or it's another example of him being so inconsiderate that he's openly oblivious to common sense that three people in the back of a four-person vehicle (owned and occupied by the "new" woman in his life) would possibly be uncomfortable.

You can be logically oblivious (Feelers), or you can be emotionally oblivious (Thinkers), but it's just too hinky that he'd be an outright idiot.

Unless it seated more than four people?

It barely seated four with my older son in the middle. It qualifies as emotionally oblivious, thus potentially highly annoyed if I turn it into an irrational issue.

Part of the reason I posted the topic was I dont think he is innately this obnoxious intentionally-if he understood the reaction it generates, he might be less likely to do so. I suppose from my viewpoint I could call it emo obliviousness, but to be honest I almost prefer to think of it as him just not speaking the same language as me. Once I understand he doesnt intend to put me in a strange place, it allows me to stop being annoyed and instead try and be productive and solve the problem myself. It just falls into the ISTP-ism category and sort of becomes a non-issue. I guess I feel I cant make him change his world to fit mine...as it isnt how he is built thus would be unfair. I am built to change myself easily, but also to draw boundaries....thus I can flex to a point-then stop and be more logical about what situations I place myself into.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Part of the reason I posted the topic was I dont think he is innately this obnoxious intentionally-if he understood the reaction it generates, he might be less likely to do so. I suppose from my viewpoint I could call it emo obliviousness, but to be honest I almost prefer to think of it as him just not speaking the same language as me. Once I understand he doesnt intend to put me in a strange place, it allows me to stop being annoyed and instead try and be productive and solve the problem myself. It just falls into the ISTP-ism category and sort of becomes a non-issue. I guess I feel I cant make him change his world to fit mine...as it isnt how he is built thus would be unfair. I am built to change myself easily, but also to draw boundaries....thus I can flex to a point-then stop and be more logical about what situations I place myself into.

It's funny I read TKAE's post and was like...."whhaaat?" Generally, ISTP's don't even see that far into a situation. Once a relationship is over we generally view it as such and therefore the "emotional responsibility" to that other person no longer exists as it once did. Which is why we can come off as cold or insensitive but it's really just how we move on. At least we are fair about this and expect the same treatment in return.

It's strange at how different people view the same instances. Needless to say, Orobas your last post that I quoted above seems like the right path to take. Good luck with everything.

 

[Bamboo]

The back-seat squeeze power trip concept seems far fetched. I wouldn't even consider something so weirdly passive aggressive and difficult to interpret as a way to exert power.

I wouldn't call a tight car ride "emotional obliviousness." I'd call it "better than walking." Last I checked, that's a favor.

 

[Randomnity]

It's funny I read TKAE's post and was like...."whhaaat?" Generally, ISTP's don't even see that far into a situation.

Me too. No offense intended but not only would an istp almost certainly not be intending to convey those things, they sound very bizarre for anyone to do. It makes me wonder if you are reading things that aren't there to start off with, in either istps or the general public. That's reading extreme passive-aggression into a lot of things that other people do...that's bordering on paranoia for me, if it isn't there already.

edit: I don't think it's inconsiderate of him to have her in the car - it would be far more inconsiderate to demand she not be there. He's the one doing the favour, taking time out of his day for a non-emergency situation to save you a cab ride home. She was probably with him earlier in the day and he didn't want to drive out of his way to drop her off, pick you up, drop you off, and pick her up again. If she relies on him for her transportation or she was spending time with him, it's also inconveniencing her to pick you up, even if she stays in the car.

I think it's unfair to suggest that he needs to carefully avoid the suggestion of hurting feelings by having her there. If anything he's paying you a compliment that he doesn't think you'll get upset over small things that don't intend offense.

 

[Giggly]

Can you shed light on what he might be thinking?

1. He likes having her around (men like having their woman around) and is not thinking about how anyone else feels about it.
2. People are lazy and will let someone else to do their work for them if they can.
3. Any problem you have with this will come off as you still being in love with him, to him, her and your new love interest.

 

[highlander]

He's probably just oblivious and is being efficient or doing whatever he feels like. I don't think it's wrong or strange for you to be bothered that your ex's new woman friend is spending time with or doing minor things to help care of your kids. You asked him, not her. He is their father. A lot of people would probably be bothered by this more than you are.

 

[Giggly]

^ I agree that she should be bothered. I would be too (esp with the gf coming into my house while I'm not there). I still think that he won't care. Lots of people are insensitive like this and talking to them about it will only lead them to believe that you are just jealous or a hater.

 

[sculpting]

So to give a perspective on an alternate situation..

I am planning the trip home for christmas with the kids. I actually am very, very close to my former in laws (I call them mom and dad) and will be spending christmas with them. I am bringing home my INTJ, my new SO. The ISTP will be there as well.

I am totally freaked out that the ISTP will be upset or uncomfortable by this action. I have tried to emphasize that he just needs to let me know if spending christmas with the my new SO is uncomfortable-and with just a word I will not do so. He says he doesnt care at all. I also tried to convince him he should bring his new SO, but he said no. (He really isnt into holidays to be honest). I also checked and double checked with the in-laws to make sure they would be comfortable as well as the poor INTJ, to make sure he would be comfortable.

If any person had indicated unhappiness-I would totally modify the plans.

^^So you can kinda of get an idea how I look forward into a situation and work really hard to try and minimize the potential for emotional discomfort before hand. It's because I am an ENFP, thus it is what I do. I wouldnt expect an ISTP or even an INTJ to try and or even really be good at this, so I cant really get annoyed if they dont.

Also we have been broken up so long that we dont really have any emo-envy stuff going on. I help out with stuff-like he had to get help with getting his car towed due to two flats and I let him use my AAA, and waited with him till the truck came. I am also going to ask him to help me with installation of some light fixtures in my house.

But on a funnier note, I guess his new SO has been getting mad at him as he keeps making her do stuff for him, hehehe. Giggly is kinda right...he's kinda lazy sometimes too He is a really good dad though.

 

[Giggly]

Oh my word.

That sounds like a big mess.