[MBTI General] How can I tell ESFJ from ESFP?

[Misty_Mountain_Rose]

I think a person I'm becoming very close to is an ESFP, but I've never really had an opportunity to 'study' either of these types and their descriptions seem similar. Would anyone be interested in helping an INTJ 'figure out' a ... a ... feeeeeeler?

I've looked at the functions and he doesn't seem to ooze Fe that an ESFJ would have as primary (it usually scares me into a corner and makes me want to vanish in a very tangible and uncomfortable way). This makes me think ESFP... but conversations with him are littered with references to tradition, family and loyalty. From what I can understand, ESFP would be more 'in the moment' and not so very concerned with those things.

I'll do the only thing I know how then and give you all 'the facts' and maybe someone can help me make sense of them? Some of these things overlap, which makes it confusing.

Things that indicate ESFP (I'm leaning in this direction)
- Not into 'drama'
- Spontaneous and tons of fun
- Was in a band and performing (all over the country!) at an early age. Has since settled down some
- Seems a little negligent about money
- Talks about things he's done, and frequently, to help someone who needed it
- He had a difficult previous relationship that he says his 'stubbornness' helped him overcome... and he does seem oddly 'over it' for the amount of time he's had to process everything.
- Works a hands-on and technical job
- Loves animals, and has five children that he loves abundantly
- Says a LOT that he is very 'happy' and 'wants to make me happy'
- Does practical things for me like fixing small things on my car and around the house
- Says he can be known to be 'scathing' at work and offend people but he makes things happen when he knows they need it and isn't afraid to speak up

Things that indicate ESFJ?
- Very serious about parental obligations
- Seems shocked at the prospect of a non-traditional wedding
- Opinionated, particularly about work and doesn't like to do anything less that the best work. Wants to make a name for himself and a reputation as a master craftsman at his profession.

... the overlap...
- Talks about things he's done, and frequently, to help someone who needed it
- Says a LOT that he is very 'happy' and 'wants to make me happy'
- Does practical things for me like fixing small things on my car and around the house


I also have not picked up on ANY of what I keep reading about ESFJ's being 'controlling'. I would think that my INTJ stubbornness at being told what to do would have picked up on that by now...

On the surface they seem similar in their approach to life but I imagine like INTJ vs INTP, there are differences in the overall methodology, right? He could also have a low P/J preference and navigate between the two in different situations I suppose...

Thoughts?

 

[Emmilou]

The best way to tell them apart is with a breathalyzer at a party.

 

[Betty Blue]

I think a person I'm becoming very close to is an ESFP, but I've never really had an opportunity to 'study' either of these types and their descriptions seem similar. Would anyone be interested in helping an INTJ 'figure out' a ... a ... feeeeeeler?

I've looked at the functions and he doesn't seem to ooze Fe that an ESFJ would have as primary (it usually scares me into a corner and makes me want to vanish in a very tangible and uncomfortable way). This makes me think ESFP... but conversations with him are littered with references to tradition, family and loyalty. From what I can understand, ESFP would be more 'in the moment' and not so very concerned with those things.

I'll do the only thing I know how then and give you all 'the facts' and maybe someone can help me make sense of them? Some of these things overlap, which makes it confusing.

Things that indicate ESFP (I'm leaning in this direction)
- Not into 'drama'
- Spontaneous and tons of fun
- Was in a band and performing (all over the country!) at an early age. Has since settled down some
- Seems a little negligent about money
- Talks about things he's done, and frequently, to help someone who needed it
- He had a difficult previous relationship that he says his 'stubbornness' helped him overcome... and he does seem oddly 'over it' for the amount of time he's had to process everything.
- Works a hands-on and technical job
- Loves animals, and has five children that he loves abundantly
- Says a LOT that he is very 'happy' and 'wants to make me happy'
- Does practical things for me like fixing small things on my car and around the house
- Says he can be known to be 'scathing' at work and offend people but he makes things happen when he knows they need it and isn't afraid to speak up

Things that indicate ESFJ?
- Very serious about parental obligations
- Seems shocked at the prospect of a non-traditional wedding
- Opinionated, particularly about work and doesn't like to do anything less that the best work. Wants to make a name for himself and a reputation as a master craftsman at his profession.

... the overlap...
- Talks about things he's done, and frequently, to help someone who needed it
- Says a LOT that he is very 'happy' and 'wants to make me happy'
- Does practical things for me like fixing small things on my car and around the house


I also have not picked up on ANY of what I keep reading about ESFJ's being 'controlling'. I would think that my INTJ stubbornness at being told what to do would have picked up on that by now...

On the surface they seem similar in their approach to life but I imagine like INTJ vs INTP, there are differences in the overall methodology, right? He could also have a low P/J preference and navigate between the two in different situations I suppose...

Thoughts?

Sounds more ESFJ than ESFP imho, ESFP's are renowned for liking drama, but then everyone is different. What is their job? how are they with family/friends?
that might help

 

[stellar renegade]

I've looked at the functions and he doesn't seem to ooze Fe that an ESFJ would have as primary (it usually scares me into a corner and makes me want to vanish in a very tangible and uncomfortable way). This makes me think ESFP...

First of all, this is pretty much bunk in my opinion and isn't an efficient way of looking at personality. If it truly helps you, though.

but conversations with him are littered with references to tradition, family and loyalty. From what I can understand, ESFP would be more 'in the moment' and not so very concerned with those things.

Yes, for the most part, but you can't absolutely stereotype.

I'll do the only thing I know how then and give you all 'the facts' and maybe someone can help me make sense of them? Some of these things overlap, which makes it confusing.

YES, thank you!

My notes inside:

Things that indicate ESFP (I'm leaning in this direction)
- Not into 'drama' - actually, it'd probly be ESXPs who are more into drama, I'm the more dramatic one between my ISFJ and I, and although my ESFJ mom would argue back to me it was mostly reactive
- Spontaneous and tons of fun
- Was in a band and performing (all over the country!) at an early age. Has since settled down some
- Seems a little negligent about money
- Talks about things he's done, and frequently, to help someone who needed it
The previous four sound perfect for an SP, the last one for an expressive SP
These ones in blue sound more like ESTP, particularly the part about making things happen, although they could mostly still be ESFP, too:
- He had a difficult previous relationship that he says his 'stubbornness' helped him overcome... and he does seem oddly 'over it' for the amount of time he's had to process everything.
- Works a hands-on and technical job
- Loves animals, and has five children that he loves abundantly
- Says a LOT that he is very 'happy' and 'wants to make me happy' - ESFP, yes
- Does practical things for me like fixing small things on my car and around the house
- Says he can be known to be 'scathing' at work and offend people but he makes things happen when he knows they need it and isn't afraid to speak up

Things that indicate ESFJ?
- Very serious about parental obligations - can still be an SP, depending on how he was raised
- Seems shocked at the prospect of a non-traditional wedding - ditto
- Opinionated, particularly about work and doesn't like to do anything less that the best work. Wants to make a name for himself and a reputation as a master craftsman at his profession. - DEFINITELY SP.

... the overlap...
- Talks about things he's done, and frequently, to help someone who needed it - the subtle variation here is that he "talks about things he's done". An SJ would just talk about what needs to be done, and then maybe add their own experience (for the most part) instead of talking about things they've done which sounds like subtle boasting - again, VERY ESTP!
- Says a LOT that he is very 'happy' and 'wants to make me happy' - well, SPs are the supreme optimists, and XSFJs are duty-fulfillers, often pessimistic but they do those things because you need it, not necessarily because they are joyful or spontaneous like he seems to be
- Does practical things for me like fixing small things on my car and around the house - could be either ESFP or ESFJ, yes, but then again SPs are better with their hands

I also have not picked up on ANY of what I keep reading about ESFJ's being 'controlling'. I would think that my INTJ stubbornness at being told what to do would have picked up on that by now...

Actually, ESFJs aren't that controlling at all. They're more helpful and accommodating like my ISFJ girl. Of course, there's a sense in which they do seem to have a "my way or the highway" attitude simply by virtue of being SJ, but only because they're convinced that it's the WAY to do it, nah mean? It feels a bit off-putting to me when my reserved, timid, kind ISFJ says things like that since she's usually so open to suggestion, but when I don't follow through she doesn't even come close to yelling at me, but she'll sulk and just not talk. My ESFJ mom would give up after arguing for a little bit, grunt and walk off.

On the surface they seem similar in their approach to life but I imagine like INTJ vs INTP, there are differences in the overall methodology, right? He could also have a low P/J preference and navigate between the two in different situations I suppose...

Thoughts?

Possible but I think it's harder to phase between temperament (SP or SJ) than it is types within a temperament. Each temperament has its own completely different paradigm of worldviews, automatic actions and response and interpretations of events that are mutually exclusive from each other. Within each temperament there's an interlocking flow between all of the traits that keeps the distinctions pretty neat and clean. I think of it kind of like a magnet that each temperament has that keeps the people who share that temperament locked inside that mindset.

Not that an SP can't have some J qualities, it's true we do sometimes and hopefully we develop the more necessary ones sooner than later, but to share tons of traits between temperaments? Nah. We're more than just the sum of our parts - we're also the glue that holds them together. And SJ and SP parts just don't fit well together.

 

[Chaotic Harmony]

I think a person I'm becoming very close to is an ESFP, but I've never really had an opportunity to 'study' either of these types and their descriptions seem similar. Would anyone be interested in helping an INTJ 'figure out' a ... a ... feeeeeeler?

No need to be scared of all feelers... Just because we are feelers doesn't mean we want to be all touchy feely with you all the time and we don't want to know everything you are feeling all day long.

Things that indicate ESFP (I'm leaning in this direction)
- Not into 'drama'
- Spontaneous and tons of fun
- Was in a band and performing (all over the country!) at an early age. Has since settled down some
- Seems a little negligent about money
- Talks about things he's done, and frequently, to help someone who needed it
- He had a difficult previous relationship that he says his 'stubbornness' helped him overcome... and he does seem oddly 'over it' for the amount of time he's had to process everything.
- Works a hands-on and technical job
- Loves animals, and has five children that he loves abundantly
- Says a LOT that he is very 'happy' and 'wants to make me happy'
- Does practical things for me like fixing small things on my car and around the house
- Says he can be known to be 'scathing' at work and offend people but he makes things happen when he knows they need it and isn't afraid to speak up

The statements in bold are what I can relate to....as an ESFJ.

Things that indicate ESFJ?
- Very serious about parental obligations
- Seems shocked at the prospect of a non-traditional wedding
- Opinionated, particularly about work and doesn't like to do anything less that the best work. Wants to make a name for himself and a reputation as a master craftsman at his profession.

And again, the bold is what I relate to... While I do like traditions, I do like to branch away from FULL tradition... At my wedding we're going with traditional, but incorporating some non-traditional ideas too. I'm opinionated, but for the most part keep my opinions to myself unless I feel that someone is being really unethical. The last part of that statement feels like a need for claim to fame, and I have zero desire for that.

... the overlap...
- Talks about things he's done, and frequently, to help someone who needed it
- Says a LOT that he is very 'happy' and 'wants to make me happy'
- Does practical things for me like fixing small things on my car and around the house

I do a lot to help people....but I rarely talk about it. I'm a very modest person, and rarely take compliments on anything well, so talking about myself is not something I'm a pro at. I am most happy when I am making others happy... But I also know that my fiance likes to know that I'm happy, so I tell him that I am because it's a pretty easy way to make him happy! I'm all the time fixing my fiances laptop and other stuff he needs help with.

I also have not picked up on ANY of what I keep reading about ESFJ's being 'controlling'. I would think that my INTJ stubbornness at being told what to do would have picked up on that by now...

I still think this is a big misconception about ESFJs. I am not controlling of people at all. I am controlling of situations... Like my wedding planning, I'm pretty well doing it all on my own. My fiance has a say in certain things obviously, but aside from him, I've pretty well decided everything else with the help of only my mom. In fact, my bridesmaids all selected their own dresses, the only requirement I had was that they must be navy blue. So, I'm pretty sure a controlling person would not have been that way. Another instance of me not controlling things is... My fiance has to have knee surgery, and asked me when to do it. I told him that was up to him. I don't know what kind of pain he is in, so I don't want to be the one to make that decision.

On the surface they seem similar in their approach to life but I imagine like INTJ vs INTP, there are differences in the overall methodology, right? He could also have a low P/J preference and navigate between the two in different situations I suppose...

Thoughts?

Those are all the thoughts from this ESFJ. I hope I cleared some stuff up. Oh yeah, and as an ESFJ I'm not all that into affection at all. I also don't open up much about my feelings.

 

[stellar renegade]

Yep, she pretty much just confirmed everything. At least all the sweeping concepts.

Oh yeah, and as an ESFJ I'm not all that into affection at all. I also don't open up much about my feelings.

What is it with you SJs and not being big on physical affection!? :steam:

I swear... I don't know how you can resist it.

 

[Chaotic Harmony]

What is it with you SJs and not being big on physical affection!? :steam:

I swear... I don't know how you can resist it.

Okay, so truth be told, I'm a little bit better in private when it's just me and my fiance... But if anyone else is around he might get lucky enough to hold my hand. I blame mine on being an only child... I really don't like people I don't know well touching me at all.

 

[stellar renegade]

That's better. My ISFJ lets me kiss her on the lips in public, though.

What's your SO's type?

 

[tinker683]

Yep, she pretty much just confirmed everything. At least all the sweeping concepts.


What is it with you SJs and not being big on physical affection!? :steam:

I swear... I don't know how you can resist it.

Erm...I *love* affection personally! My thing is I have to know it's desired. I'm very timid about that kind of thing but once I get the "go-ahead" I usually have a hard time not being affectionate at that point. I used to practically hang all over my ex (she didn't mind though, which was really nice )

 

[stellar renegade]

Well yeah, but you guys have boundaries, and then there's the whole "don't touch me" mode that you go into, at least mine does. Maybe it's different for a guy, too.

But yeah, she really does love physical affection for the most part, and she often initiates the makeouts. I'm happy.

 

[Giggly]

Hmm, this is tough. I'm going to go with ESFP, but perhaps a mature one.

Actually, ESFJs aren't that controlling at all. They're more helpful and accommodating like my ISFJ girl. Of course, there's a sense in which they do seem to have a "my way or the highway" attitude simply by virtue of being SJ, but only because they're convinced that it's the WAY to do it, nah mean? It feels a bit off-putting to me when my reserved, timid, kind ISFJ says things like that since she's usually so open to suggestion, but when I don't follow through she doesn't even come close to yelling at me, but she'll sulk and just not talk. My ESFJ mom would give up after arguing for a little bit, grunt and walk off.

Yes. Spot on. I think the fact that SFJs have an idea or are convinced that that is the WAY to be is what upsets people. Perhaps it feels confining or oppressive to them. I guess people would prefer it if SFJs didn't have any ideas at all? .

What is it with you SJs and not being big on physical affection!? :steam:

I swear... I don't know how you can resist it.

If I resist I don't mean any harm. I'm either caught up in something I'm doing or not feeling at ease. Being at ease or realizing that the affection will put me at ease is key for me. Otherwise I love it but will only do it with my SO.

 

[Chaotic Harmony]

That's better. My ISFJ lets me kiss her on the lips in public, though.

What's your SO's type?

He says he tested as an INTJ in the past... I think he was in work/study mode so that had a lot to do with it.... But when it comes to his personal life he's more of an INFP. We he said he was an INTJ I said he cared far too much about hurting other people's feelings and couldn't get anywhere on time to be an INTJ, maybe an INTP.

Well yeah, but you guys have boundaries, and then there's the whole "don't touch me" mode that you go into, at least mine does. Maybe it's different for a guy, too.

Oh, I totally do that. It's usually a sure sign that it's nearing that time of the month.

 

[stellar renegade]

Hey, Giggly!

Hmm, this is tough. I'm going to go with ESFP, but perhaps a mature one.

Yes. We mature ESXPs DO exist.

Yes. Spot on. I think the fact that SFJs have an idea or are convinced that that is the WAY to be is what upsets people. Perhaps it feels confining or oppressive to them. I guess people would prefer it if SFJs didn't have any ideas at all? .

You sound just like her, hah.

It's not that you have ideas, it's just that you have certain set ideas and when I'm trying to reason something out, sometimes I get shut down on because it seems like I don't respect her sense of things, I guess -- even though I DO, very much so, it's one reason I love her so much. I think it's usually when there's alot of emotion tied to the subject because she cares about me, but I'm honestly just trying to figure out the best option.

I don't mean any offense, I just don't understand not reasoning something out. I guess because I used to mostly talk with my dad about decisions and he was an ENTJ. My ESFJ mom was kinda like this, too.

And it's not just on big decisions, sometimes it's been about what jeans to buy. Then later she regrouped and realized it's probably better to just not be as assertive about that. But then she didn't want to make suggestions at all. It sucks that she's so sensitive, I just want to have a good time with her and think things out with her.

If I resist I don't mean any harm. I'm either caught up in something I'm doing or not feeling at ease. Being at ease or realizing that the affection will put me at ease is key for me. Otherwise I love it but will only do it with my SO.

Yeah.

But then it seems pretty easy for you to not be at ease, sometimes. Thankfully more often than not she is (with my influence ) but maybe the intensity of the bad times makes it seem like it happens more than it does.

He says he tested as an INTJ in the past... I think he was in work/study mode so that had a lot to do with it.... But when it comes to his personal life he's more of an INFP. We he said he was an INTJ I said he cared far too much about hurting other people's feelings and couldn't get anywhere on time to be an INTJ, maybe an INTP.

Oh, okay. Good, then he's not a sensualist. Another one saved.

JK!!! I wouldn't trade having an XSFJ for the world.

Oh, I totally do that. It's usually a sure sign that it's nearing that time of the month.

Yep. Either that or when she feels traumatized by something, such as me not coming over when she thought I would for some reason or another (usually now because of other obligations).

 

[Chaotic Harmony]

Yep. Either that or when she feels traumatized by something, such as me not coming over when she thought I would for some reason or another (usually now because of other obligations).

OMG, I'm laughing so hard over here right now! That was what happened to us last night. I thought he was going to come over after work, or at least call me after work to see when we were going shopping (since we'd been talking about it all day)... So I called him and he didn't answer, and didn't call me back for over an hour... When he finally got there I didn't hardly talk to him or return his affection because I was so annoyed that the "plans" got screwed up. :steam:

SJs and their need to stick to plans... :rolli:

 

[stellar renegade]

ROFL. Glad you can laugh at that. She's so serious about sticking to plans. I'm hoping she lightens up just a bit, although I have to say that communication is optimal. But she still gets upset even when I let her know what's going on. Not at me, just the situation. It happened to us last night, too. I got stuck at work way longer than I thought I'd be.

 

[Chaotic Harmony]

I tend to be okay with plans being broken. I might get a little bummed if I was super excited about something... But as long as I'm notified I'm okay. It's times like yesterday where I'm sitting around scratching my head wondering why he hasn't called or dropped by that upset me.

 

[stellar renegade]

I tend to be okay with plans being broken. I might get a little bummed if I was super excited about something... But as long as I'm notified I'm okay. It's times like yesterday where I'm sitting around scratching my head wondering why he hasn't called or dropped by that upset me.

Well yeah, or when he's uncertain when he can pull away and the time just drags on... right?

 

[King sns]

I'm going with definite ESFP.
I still say that adulthood and parenthood makes everyone seem more J. We also have the tertiary Te which J's us in the end. If you get to know ESFP's and ESFJ's very well, you will find that we are very similar on the surface but very very different in our thoughts/ and the way that we arrive at how we act. Guardians are guardians for the heck of it, that's their being. Artisans will seem like guardians if it's necessary to act like a guardian to make life easier and more fun. Regarding traditional weddings, a lot of people want that.

 

[stellar renegade]

Yep, not always contingent on personality. In fact, my ISFJ doesn't want a traditional wedding, no flare or fluff. She even said something about having a barbecue... hah. I love that gal.

 

[Giggly]

Hey, Giggly!

Hey, stellar.

You sound just like her, hah.

It's not that you have ideas, it's just that you have certain set ideas and when I'm trying to reason something out, sometimes I get shut down on because it seems like I don't respect her sense of things, I guess -- even though I DO, very much so, it's one reason I love her so much. I think it's usually when there's alot of emotion tied to the subject because she cares about me, but I'm honestly just trying to figure out the best option.

I don't mean any offense, I just don't understand not reasoning something out. I guess because I used to mostly talk with my dad about decisions and he was an ENTJ. My ESFJ mom was kinda like this, too.

And it's not just on big decisions, sometimes it's been about what jeans to buy. Then later she regrouped and realized it's probably better to just not be as assertive about that. But then she didn't want to make suggestions at all. It sucks that she's so sensitive, I just want to have a good time with her and think things out with her.

You're right, it's because there is a lot of emotion tied to the subject, and she cares about you. I wouldn't know how to react in this situation either if I were her, except to just be quiet as to not make things worse. I've always sucked at knowing how to handle extroverts in the best way. I hope her worrying is not bringing you down too though.

Yeah.

But then it seems pretty easy for you to not be at ease, sometimes. Thankfully more often than not she is (with my influence ) but maybe the intensity of the bad times makes it seem like it happens more than it does.

Yes, I think so.

JK!!! I wouldn't trade having an XSFJ for the world.

Of course, I agree with you. SFJ+STP =

Yep. Either that or when she feels traumatized by something, such as me not coming over when she thought I would for some reason or another (usually now because of other obligations).

Well yeah, or when he's uncertain when he can pull away and the time just drags on... right?

Yeeeeeeeeeees. Like slow torture! :steam: