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[MBTI General] Question for sensors?

girlnamedbless

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May 19, 2007
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Now that is interesting as I don't know one SJ in my life who isn't a planner for all things now and in the future (as it relates to practical, concrete things)

Yeah, I know what you mean.. it actually depends on the situation. For example, I plan things like parties and meetings out in advance. I love planning that kind of stuff. But when it comes to things that concern my future (well off into it) that it kind of scares me and I tend to push it off.
 

Zhash

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Originally Posted by Shimpei
I don't know what you mean.

Your answer is the problem.
__________________

You still haven't given me an example from real life.

You might wait for a long time, Shimpei. I'm not sure SW has a real life as we know it. :smile:

I tend to disagree. SW has a very rich inner life. Once again, Shimpei is demonstrating from the answer above that he/she has an inferior "Intuition".

As you can see, SW was able to demonstrate this inferiority by the questions he asked to get the response to indicate that Shimpei is a sensor. SW is genius.
 

Ivy

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I tend to disagree. SW has a very rich inner life. Once again, Shimpei is demonstrating from the answer above that he/she has an inferior "Intuition".

As you can see, SW was able to demonstrate this inferiority by the questions he asked to get the response to indicate that Shimpei is a sensor. SW is genius.

We've established this already in her profile. Now what? Can you get beyond "she's a sensor" and try to use your knowledge of type differences to communicate?
 

SolitaryWalker

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We've established this already in her profile. Now what? Can you get beyond "she's a sensor" and try to use your knowledge of type differences to communicate?


Ivy,

I think you've overlooked one important aspect of her post, namely that its purport was theoretical and not practical. She seemingly held little interest in using typology to facilitate communication and instead use it to make an abstract observation which indeed was cogent: people with a strong S preference frequently are unable to understand an intuitor's comment that was otherwise well acceptable.
 

Ivy

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Ivy,

I think you've overlooked one important aspect of her post, namely that its purport was theoretical and not practical. She seemingly held little interest in using typology to facilitate communication and instead use it to get a glance at some abstract problem.

What abstract problem? That Shimpei is a sensor? That's already been established, and I'm asking-- so what. I'm aware that Zhash didn't really care to try and communicate with Shimpei beyond labeling her as a sensor-- I was making my own rhetorical point there that apparently flew right by you.
 

SolitaryWalker

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Her idea was this: An Intuitor can communicate an idea clearly that will not be understood by a sensor. (Hence the Intuitor in this case should not be held responsible for the sensor not understanding, as in other cases for instance he may be held responsible for not communicating clearly, but this was not one of those scenarios.)

Your point was seemingly...nevermind that theoretical mumbo-jumbo... lets focus on the more humane goals... on the more practical... namely using typology to make communication differences diminish...instead of pointing out that Shimpei does not understand because she is a sensor... why dont you take into account how sensors communicate and present it in a way she will be more likely to understand.


I think I understand your diverging perspectives now...I am not saying that she is right and you're wrong...in fact I think both of the claims are valid..yet also incommensurable because they deal with different matters... hers with the theoretical and yours with the practical..
 

"?"

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I am hoping that everyone is basing their responses on theory, and not limited in realizing that those preferring intuition can communicate concretely, and that those preferring sensing can communicate abstractly? Once again, depending on whose succession of functions you prescribe to, ISJs have a better use of Ni than NTPs.
 

SolitaryWalker

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I am hoping that everyone is basing their responses on theory, and not limited in realizing that those preferring intuition can communicate concretely, and that those preferring sensing can communicate abstractly? Once again, depending on whose succession of functions you prescribe to, ISJs have a better use of Ni than NTPs.


Yes, I am thinking in terms of theory and not actual people you meet on the streets.

ISTP is one of the most intuitive sensors, so what I said concerning Shimpei need not apply to you.

It is not true that ISJs have a better use of Ni than NTPs.

This is the order that our functions tend to develop in..

Ti
Ne
Te
Ni
Si
Se
Fe
Fi

Si
Te
Se
Ti
Fi
Fe
Ne
Ni
 

niffer

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omg, BW! *glee*
 

"?"

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Yes, I am thinking in terms of theory and not actual people you meet on the streets.

ISTP is one of the most intuitive sensors, so what I said concerning Shimpei need not apply to you.

It is not true that ISJs have a better use of Ni than NTPs.

This is the order that our functions tend to develop in..

Ti
Ne
Te
Ni
Si
Se
Fe
Fi
Blue, I have never seen that function process. Where did it come from? Beebe's shows INTP to be Ti-Ne-Si-Fe and so on, and Thomson's Ti-Ne-Fi-Se and so on....
 

SolitaryWalker

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Blue, I have never seen that function process. Where did it come from? Beebe's shows INTP to be Ti-Ne-Si-Fe and so on, and Thomson's Ti-Ne-Fi-Se and so on....


Think about it... when our first function grows... the Ti and Te grow parallely...one just goes faster than the other... same goes for all functions... both sides grow simultaneously..

And as for second

Ti-Ne-Fi-Se and so on

Here is the reason why Fi seems so high up on the list... Ti does ethics also... and analyzes a like the Fi does when it comes to ethics.. this is where they share a commonality... Introverted Judgment. The Fi isnt really there, it is just the shadow of Ti. This is why so many INFPs think they have a Ti, but they really dont, its just their Fi working like a Ti in many respects as it is also an introverted judgment function.

Se should be only a little weaker than the Se, but still clearly stronger than F, as F is the inferior function..

Se may appear high on the list, but we should remember that it probably is not there, it is probably just the shadow of the Ne, like Fi is of Ti.
 

"?"

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Think about it... when our first function grows... the Ti and Te grow parallely...one just goes faster than the other... same goes for all functions... both sides grow simultaneously...
I actually thought about it when I first saw your theory. This person would be totally ungrounded in reality and incapable of existing with other people. They have a name for people hardwired in such a manner "Autism".

The functions are set up for a natural balance which allows each type to run the gamut of all the functions. The type you allude to would have no sensing or feeling functions available.
 

SolitaryWalker

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I actually thought about it when I first saw your theory. This person would be totally ungrounded in reality and incapable of existing with other people. They have a name for people hardwired in such a manner "Autism".

The functions are set up for a natural balance which allows each type to run the gamut of all the functions. The type you allude to would have no sensing or feeling functions available.


Not really.. we still use Sensing and Feeling as NTs... we always use all functions.. its just that they would be weaker (for an INTP) than the backside of the T and the N...(Just because Ni and Te are ahead of all sensing and feeling functions it does not mean that those functions are not there at all)
 

Randomnity

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Blue, I have never seen that function process. Where did it come from? Beebe's shows INTP to be Ti-Ne-Si-Fe and so on, and Thomson's Ti-Ne-Fi-Se and so on....

Re function order:

I don't know anything about these random people's function order theories, but logically, would it not be different depending on the relative strengths of the four functions? (Beyond the Ti-Ne-Si-Fe basic order, that is)

For example, an INTP who has a weaker T (ie leaning towards INFP) would have Fi higher in the function order than one with a very strong T. An INTP with a weak P would have Te (and probably Ni) higher in the order than an INTP with a strong P. And so on. So I don't think there can really be one function order for all INTPs.

Does this not make sense?
 

ptgatsby

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Re function order:

I don't know anything about these random people's function order theories, but logically, would it not be different depending on the relative strengths of the four functions? (Beyond the Ti-Ne-Si-Fe basic order, that is)

For example, an INTP who has a weaker T (ie leaning towards INFP) would have Fi higher in the function order than one with a very strong T. An INTP with a weak P would have Te (and probably Ni) higher in the order than an INTP with a strong P. And so on. So I don't think there can really be one function order for all INTPs.

Does this not make sense?

Yes, it would make sense.

However MBTI doesn't express strengths in gradients, you are either one or the other and your function order is set absolutely from that. So in terms of ordering, you either believe in MBTI (ie: It's not even Jung that defined it this way!) or you don't believe in funtional ordering... the step from there would be to work with Jungs big three and those theories.
 

Alesia

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Apr 27, 2007
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Okay, while I've got my Keirsy book out. I think this is what Seawolf was referring to. Keirsy says in Please Understand Me II, that SPs have a time orientation to the present, SJs have a time orientation to the past, NFs have an orientation to tommorrow, and NTs have time intervals.

It's just where you tend to focus your attention.

Like:
"Far more than the rest of us, Artisans live and act in the present. After all, they tell us, "tommorrow never comes" and yesterday is "water over the dam". To an SP, there's no time like the present, so we'd better make the most of it, better seize the day, strike while the iron is hot, or get while the getting's good. Watch a thorough-going SP athlete in action. He or she acts to a great extent in the now, focusing easily on this time, not that tiem, on this stroke, not the last one or the next one."

SJs tend to focus more on the past:
"SJs are keepers of tradition of custom, of continuity with the past. This means that SJs do not usually focus on the now, as do the opportunistic SPs. Nor on tomorrow, as do the romantic NFs, and certainly not on timeless intervals, as do the scientific NTs. Rather, SJs are more inclined to turn their thoughts to yesterday, to look fondly upon the good old days when people earned thier living, when ....."

"This reverence for the past perhaps explains why, more than any of the other types, SJs are creatures of habit, following faithfully the same routines in their dayly lives." "Gaurdians (SJs) often come to focus their traditionalism on the family. SJs prize family possessions, the longer possessed the better, and they take great satisfaction in looking after family property" " But even in the community at large, Guardians have a great and lasting respect for age. They hate to see old buildings torn down, even old trees cut down - as though age, by itself, confers importance, a certain rank in the social hierachy."

And then he goes on and gives a chart about how each types orientation is toward the Present, Future, Past, Place.

Orientation Idealists Artisans Guardians Rationals

Present Altruistic Practical Dutiful Pragmatic
Future Credulous Optimistic Pessimistic Skeptical
Past Mystical Cynical Stoical Relativistic
Place Pathways Here Gateways Intersections
Time Tommorrow Now Yesterday Intervals

And with that, I'm tired of typing. And they all said :banana: :happy0065: :static: :yay:
 
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