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[SP] SP's and commitment

miss fortune

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to KLessard:

what's funny about your argument there is that you're talking about one of my few redeeming qualities :laugh:

overall, I'll admit to being a pretty horrible person by conventional definitions- if there's a hell, I'm pretty much guarenteed a nice place at the table there- but you know what? I'm loyal. You fuck with someone I love and I will make you pay. I will stick by those that I love through the bad times as well as the good times and they can screw me over and I'll still be there (within reason... fuck up a few too many times and you get put on probation :) ). Once I've decided that someone is worthy of my loyalty it's hard to budge.

Funny, the one person who abused that the most was an NFJ... and he was never willing to trust me no matter how committed I was- it hurt :newwink:
 

Poki

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I understand, and hope you realize I am not "hatin." In my book, expectaions are bad, especially because they hagve a way of interjecting themselves before enough exposure between two parties has ensueds to warrant real understanding.


Have you ever considered that maybe after cycle after cycle of those feelings not being requitted, they make an assessment of how to expend their energy and change gears for the sake of self preservation? Maybe you hurt their feelings> Seriously. Our (SPs) feelingas are deep, and when hurt, it is not easy for us to make sense of it and to move forward...



Or maybe once they felt that their feelings were groomed to have no faith in them being returned, they made the choice to move on?



Yes, it is. It is also hurtful and insulting for another person to make judgements on you based on non-relevant experience.



Don't fool yourself. We can be rolling stones with regard to our pursuit of careers, academia, or hobbies/interests, yet have a strong and devout sense of love and commitment provided we have selected the right person in life.

Just out of curiousity, what are textbook INFJs described as? Do you agree with that definitiion? Why or why not? ;)

to KLessard:

what's funny about your argument there is that you're talking about one of my few redeeming qualities :laugh:

overall, I'll admit to being a pretty horrible person by conventional definitions- if there's a hell, I'm pretty much guarenteed a nice place at the table there- but you know what? I'm loyal. You fuck with someone I love and I will make you pay. I will stick by those that I love through the bad times as well as the good times and they can screw me over and I'll still be there (within reason... fuck up a few too many times and you get put on probation :) ). Once I've decided that someone is worthy of my loyalty it's hard to budge.

Funny, the one person who abused that the most was an NFJ... and he was never willing to trust me no matter how committed I was- it hurt :newwink:

:yes:
 

KLessard

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to KLessard:

what's funny about your argument there is that you're talking about one of my few redeeming qualities :laugh:

overall, I'll admit to being a pretty horrible person by conventional definitions- if there's a hell, I'm pretty much guarenteed a nice place at the table there- but you know what? I'm loyal. You fuck with someone I love and I will make you pay. I will stick by those that I love through the bad times as well as the good times and they can screw me over and I'll still be there (within reason... fuck up a few too many times and you get put on probation :) ). Once I've decided that someone is worthy of my loyalty it's hard to budge.

Funny, the one person who abused that the most was an NFJ... and he was never willing to trust me no matter how committed I was- it hurt :newwink:

What makes you choose to commit to a person? What makes you decide that a person is worthy of your loyalty? I see SPs do commit to a few. A few.
 

miss fortune

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What makes you choose to commit to a person? What makes you decide that a person is worthy of your loyalty? I see SPs do commit to a few. A few.

My family, my friends, my signifigant other... if I respect you enough to desire to spend my time with you and help you out, you can take that as a sign that I'm loyal to you. :)

Love me despite the fact I'm me and you will have my steady support, basically :cheese:
 

Jeffster

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I wrote this based on experience, not just plain judgment. I know it is wrong to judge without evidence. I try hard not to. I have trusted hopefully, even after being hurt and disappointed. I have idealized, and I suppose my expectations were too high, not too low. I have believed in the unique ISFP kindness. I have believed so and had great hopes about it.

I think SPs sometimes choose not to care anymore or they move on. They leave you there and expect you to move on too. They had offered kindness or friendship, had kept it going for a time (even a long time), but once they choose to focus on something else...

Whichever type you are, I think it is always hurtful and insulting to be let down.

Textbook SPs are described as rolling stones. That's theory. I'm not saying all SPs are like this.


All this is vague though. You didn't answer my question about what you're talking about specifically when it comes to commitment.
 

KLessard

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I was thinking of commitment in friendship. How do you see it? Do you keep friends for a lifetime or only for a season?

Let me also quote shortnsweet's First post:
"Showing up to things late, not showing up to class, my wandering eye when it comes to relationships, getting sick of jobs quickly, and moving annually. I always think I am justified in everything I do. But over time, it appears that I am not committed to anything."

Being careful in all those things show people you are committed and respect them. Not showing up or changing your mind and not telling the other person is disrespectful. Accumulate this on many occasions, and your friend or acquaintance will feel hurt and wonder if you are trustworthy.
 

miss fortune

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I've been friends with my best friend for about 8 years now... even though she lives about 13 hours away :)

Some of my other friends I've had since kindergarden or so... thoughts being, if we can still connect after all of those years you're worth the loyalty :cheese:

If we drift apart, I'll still stick up for you when the opportunity arises, but it won't be quite the same :yes:
 

Poki

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I was thinking of commitment in friendship. How do you see it? Do you keep friends for a lifetime or only for a season?

Let me also quote shortnsweet's First post:
"Showing up to things late, not showing up to class, my wandering eye when it comes to relationships, getting sick of jobs quickly, and moving annually. I always think I am justified in everything I do. But over time, it appears that I am not committed to anything."

Being careful in all those things show people you are committed and respect them. Not showing up or changing your mind and not telling the other person is disrespectful. Accumulate this on many occasions, and your friend or acquaintance will feel hurt and wonder if you are trustworthy.

Allowing a person to be who they are is respect. Its how you respect someone for who they are. Defining how someone should be is not respecting someone, its demanding respect from them in certain ways.

To me it goes something along the lines of "I respect your decision what ever it may be" that is respect. Commitment is I will stand by you no matter what. I have commited to my wife, that come he**, high water, divorce, seperation, no matter what, I am here for her. Period. I stand to question how many people know what commitment is, what respect is.
 

KLessard

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Allowing a person to be who they are is respect. Its how you respect someone for who they are. Defining how someone should be is not respecting someone, its demanding respect from them in certain ways.

To me it goes something along the lines of "I respect your decision what ever it may be" that is respect. Commitment is I will stand by you no matter what. I have commited to my wife, that come he**, high water, divorce, seperation, no matter what, I am here for her. Period. I stand to question how many people know what commitment is, what respect is.

I agree, but the examples given were from a SP questioning herself, not from me. She declares "I always think I am justified in everything I do," but realizes there might something wrong with this because of the outcomes in her life. I thought this post was about helping SPs getting a better understanding of commitment, not justifying their behaviour.

If being who you are causes people pain, you might want to consider improving your behaviour and having more consideration for the other person's side of the coin. You will only become a better person. Expecting the people you love to be their best is not disrespectful. On the contrary. But I believe in grace and unconditional love.
 

Stanton Moore

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I don't think this is type related. I've had issues with commitment too - to jobs, school, relationships... I suspect it has more to do with my fractured childhood than a character flaw, type related or not.
People come into adulthood with certain expectations, and those are partially (maybe mostly) driven by prior experience, not inborne type. No one is born with certain attitudes or behaviors...
 

KLessard

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I see nothing wrong with her response or her questioning herself. Look at what she says. "I always think I am justified in everything I do. But over time, it appears that I am not committed to anything." She is questioning herself based on how others see her. Right there is her consideration.

I didn't see anything wrong with her questioning and reflections. It is good! She is realizing that commitment might be more important than she thought. I am trying to help SPs see the perspective of those who are possibly affected by their difficulty with commitment as a motivation to improve their attitude on the matter.
Also, I am not sure shortnsweet is so concerned with others' perspectives, as much as seeing this might be causing her difficulties in her own life.

I'm a type One Reformer. Don't see this as an attack, but as a wish to help the SP reach out for the best.
 

Poki

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I agree, but the examples given were from a SP questioning herself, not from me. She declares "I always think I am justified in everything I do," but realizes there might something wrong with this because of the outcomes in her life. I thought this post was about helping SPs getting a better understanding of commitment, not justifying their behaviour.

If being who you are causes people pain, you might want to consider improving your behaviour and having more consideration for the other person's side of the coin. You will only become a better person. Expecting the people you love to be their best is not disrespectful. On the contrary. But I believe in grace and unconditional love.

No its not disrespectful, its all in the way you push them to become better. The way people push can be disrespectful to others.

I'm a type One Reformer. Don't see this as an attack, but as a wish to help the SP reach out for the best.
accepted
 

Poki

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What makes you choose to commit to a person? What makes you decide that a person is worthy of your loyalty? I see SPs do commit to a few. A few.

To answer this question, be yourself and I will make a decision if I want to commit based on that. I commit to people not to events, contracts, etc. If i do work to be ontime, be commited in these ways described, it is not for me, it is not to be a better person, it is for you. If you do not realize this and continue to push me for the purpose of becoming a better person I will not do it because I dont want it. Thats not the right way to push me. My goals are not to be a better person for myself, but for those that are around me. My goal for myself is to enjoy life. I will escape my goals for others, but I wont escape my goals for myself.
 

Jeffster

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I was thinking of commitment in friendship. How do you see it? Do you keep friends for a lifetime or only for a season?

There's only one friend that I ever "dumped" so to speak, and I was in 5th grade at the time. I would love to keep friends for a lifetime. It doesn't seem to happen, though, outside of my family. It seems like people forget about me.

If being who you are causes people pain, you might want to consider improving your behaviour and having more consideration for the other person's side of the coin. You will only become a better person. Expecting the people you love to be their best is not disrespectful. On the contrary. But I believe in grace and unconditional love.

How do you know if one is "being their best?" And is it the right of any person to determine what that is for someone else? I agree that if a person finds themselves continually hurting others, then change is probably a good thing. But everybody's a little different, and aren't all hurt by the same things.
 

KLessard

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To answer this question, be yourself and I will make a decision if I want to commit based on that. I commit to people not to events, contracts, etc. If i do work to be ontime, be commited in these ways described, it is not for me, it is not to be a better person, it is for you. If you do not realize this and continue to push me for the purpose of becoming a better person I will not do it because I dont want it. Thats not the right way to push me. My goals are not to be a better person for myself, but for those that are around me. My goal for myself is to enjoy life. I will escape my goals for others, but I wont escape my goals for myself.

This is very interesting.

Being SP, you possibly read shortnsweet's first post more accurately than me. But I really thought she was seeing a problem in her own life, it didn't sound like she was worried about how others saw this.
Reaching out for our best (something unique to each person) is something we do both for ourselves and others, in my opinion. If I am a better person, people I deal with will suffer less and my relationships will go smoothly. Everyone will profit.
 

KLessard

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How do you know if one is "being their best?" And is it the right of any person to determine what that is for someone else? I agree that if a person finds themselves continually hurting others, then change is probably a good thing. But everybody's a little different, and aren't all hurt by the same things.

I agree.
Being an idealist, I suppose I meant to reach out for a certain ideal of being trustworthy and committed, something that is greater than ourselves and that all can profit from. But you will say we all have different ideals. It's true.
If shortnsweet decided to ponder on the issue of commitment and saw something that was not working quite well in her life, I thought she was seeing there was a better way to all this.
 

Rainne

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Commitment is hard because once you start getting bored, you kind of start to slack and hope it goes away.
 

KLessard

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Commitment is hard because once you start getting bored, you kind of start to slack and hope it goes away.

What do you hope will go away? The boring element or the boredom?

If the boring element is a person, this is where you must be careful not to make that person feel boring and disposable. I have had SPs making me feel like this. It's a hard blow for self-esteem. I suppose there are wise ways to deal with this boredom, since SPs refuse to put up with boredom. That must be challenging.
 

miss fortune

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If I like a person I don't tend to get bored... I tend to be Committed, with a capital C... and I will work towards making things go well... I had an NF kick me in the teeth, so backwards of your story :cheese:
 
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