[MBTI General] Do you really want to hurt me? (here's your chance!)

[Atomic Fiend]

My uncles ESTP, he's one of the coolest guys I've ever known.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

I don't dislike ESTP's, actually they are my greatest buddy type by numbers. I absolutely love them for how much ideas for action they have at any given time, and they're flexible and spontaneous.

I really don't go around bad-mouthing ESTP's, quite the contrary.

Still, some ESTP's greatest downfalls I've seen are related to approximately the same concepts - at least in my view.

They're often gathering so much of everything to do, so much action so that many agreements are cancelled on the run.. tho I've learned the hard way that I must treat ESTP's as something expendable, just as they seem to treat me so. They don't seem to think of people primarily through continuity, steadiness, loyalty or trustworthiness. Instead, they seem to think of people through situationality, individual cases, mutual benefits, what can be done and what can't be done at any time. Oh, and lets not forget opportunism At least I have the decency to hide my opportunism.. or at least I try

I was at one time mad at them, before I learned to play their game.

So, while I'm no best friends with any ESTPs, I like them.. and I feel they mirror my own habits and mindset very much. We generally have great fun together when we meet, but it doesn't go into developing a deep friendship.

Don't take this as an offense, I don't see (m)any ESTP's seeking to become my best friends either

edit: did I write more about their negative side? Ok. My apologies. This was not ment as a hidden way to trash them, but rather a point in what I'm allowing them while still loving them.

 

[ygolo]

I don't know too many ESTPs. The ones I have known personally I have liked.

There may be a jocks/nerds theme. Where people assume they were nerds and the jocks were ESTx's.

Sorry, if that was incoherent. I am still not feeling well.

 

[miss fortune]

Don't take this as an offense, I don't see (m)any ESTP's seeking to become my best friends either

one of my best friends while growing up was an ENTP! I love them dearly! we got in so much trouble together

 

[Arilee]

ESTPs (well this one at least) do tend to stick to the concrete.

I would imagine one of the things that INTPs find frustrating is the inability to deal with the big picture or concepts as readily as they can. A recent example (not the one Xander mentioned earlier) highlights some of this quite well.

I am designing a database for work, I know very little about designing databases, but Xander has a massive amount of knowledge and experience so he's offered to help me. one of his first questions was along the lines of what does the database need to do? So I went in to a long description of all the individual functions that the database needs to do. What he actually wanted me to answer is something totally different and I'm still not sure what he's getting at


Now we are getting on to the circular discussions. He's trying to explain the conceptual side of things but isn't making any sense to me. I get frustrated because he is being "difficult" and not giving me an answer that makes sense and he gets frustrated because I'm being "difficult" because I keep asking him the same question over and over in slightly different ways until I get an answer that I can understand...

 

[miss fortune]

OMG Arilee!!! I'd thought that you were inactive and was feeling rather alone here!!!

 

[Arilee]

OMG Arilee!!! I'd thought that you were inactive and was feeling rather alone here!!!

I haven't been around for quite a while... I lurk more than I post...

 

[miss fortune]

I'm sure that your side of the argument is signifigantly more sensible!

 

[Arilee]

I'm sure that your side of the argument is signifigantly more sensible!

I'm sure it is... I just don't seem to be able to convince Xander that is the case though

Alot of the time we are on a similar wavelength and can talk about stuff at either an S or N level (I'm improving my N slowly) but if I'm tired or distracted my ability to discuss concepts goes straight out the window.

 

[Hypomanic]

Could it be because Bush is one?

 

[miss fortune]

don't remind me!!!

though I have to say- I hate everything about the man politically, but would probably not mind him as a person!

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

I've concluded from reading through all of the SP threads that you guys don't seem to be big fans of ESTPs and tend to associate a lot of bad traits with them. Why?

I realize that my recent type change has left me seriously outnumbered on this site and I'd like to know why you guys hate ESTPs more than any type except for probably ESTJs! Please- why am I considered the epitome of all that's wrong with SPs? I'd love to know, so criticize away- you can't hurt my feelings!

I think ESTP's are great. Actually I like basically everybody, but I have a couple of ESTP friends who are fairly close. They're lots of fun to hang out with, and I find them to be very willing to help out when asked.

I don't really think there is anything to hate about ESTP's any more than there is about any other type. All types have good and bad. On these boards though IN's very much dominate. That means the biggest misunderstandings that they will have will be with ES types. (Actually of all the ES types I tend to think ESFJ's get the worst treatment.) Don't take what is said on these boards personally though. Many IN's don't really understand ESTP's very well and are coming here to vent frustrations that they have with them.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

I feel that I need to comment on this.
I'm pretty devoid of type prejudices, so it is notable that I have a typically lower opinion of ESTPs than any other type.

I guess it would be fair to consider that my father was an ESTP, and that I don't respect him a whole lot. So yeah, there may be some personal experiences behind it.

I tend to think of ESTPs as unscrupulous.
That's definitely the word.
And their attitudes tend to rub me the wrong way.

 

[Athenian200]

I've concluded from reading through all of the SP threads that you guys don't seem to be big fans of ESTPs and tend to associate a lot of bad traits with them. Why?

I realize that my recent type change has left me seriously outnumbered on this site and I'd like to know why you guys hate ESTPs more than any type except for probably ESTJs! Please- why am I considered the epitome of all that's wrong with SPs? I'd love to know, so criticize away- you can't hurt my feelings!

If you're talking about me, then it's simply because I'm an INFJ. It seems that if I'm an INFJ, and I like my own way of looking at things, then obviously an ESTP should be the most difficult to deal with for me, and hence enjoy the things I hate, and hate the things I enjoy.

I hadn't met you yet when I said those things, and I thought it unlikely that any ESTP's would come here to read them (it seemed from the description that they wouldn't really like computers or the Internet), so I could feel free to dump all the negative experiences I've had with people who seem to like making me uncomfortable onto my shadow... but you're not quite like I expected you to be... you actually try to talk about things, and don't curse all the time, write mostly in capitals, or put exclamation points after every other word.

So, I actually like hearing your comments... so please don't go just because a while ago I felt like making a few frustrated cracks at a type I've probably never really gotten to know. If I'd known you were so easy to talk/listen to (online, anyway), I never would have said those things. The impression I get of you is that you kind of amble through life rather casually, and occasionally do dumb/harmful things, but not intentionally, and try to fix it. I also think that you would feel badly if your actions really hurt someone, which is the main thing I assumed ESTP's didn't care about. I just assumed that if I was an INFJ, and I cared about that, then the opposite of me shouldn't care about that.

 

[spirilis]

The couple ESTPs I do know, I look up to them because they often demonstrate themselves superior to me in a lot of skills. Usually good down-to-earth people just like ESTJs, but not complete hardasses like ESTJs. Plus, again, the ones I know tend to have superior skill in some tactical stuff--like games, playing the social field of an organization, etc. and that appeases my "meritocratic" side. I look up to ESTPs as examples of hardy capable human beings in the same way that I guess "society" looks up to ESTJs.

But then, the crude side shows through and I realize that they're only human.

 

[miss fortune]

you actually try to talk about things, and don't curse all the time, write mostly in capitals, or put exclamation points after every other word.

oh dear- I DO use a lot of caps and exclamation points though I actually TRY to tone it down though!

and I wasn't aiming this at any one person! Please don't feel like that! A lot of people like to make fun of ESTPs

(and I can understand why perfectly)

 

[Athenian200]

oh dear- I DO use a lot of caps and exclamation points though I actually TRY to tone it down though!

and I wasn't aiming this at any one person! Please don't feel like that! A lot of people like to make fun of ESTPs

(and I can understand why perfectly)

Don't worry, you usually use it appropriately.

I just have a couple of questions:

1. Do you like to read?

2. Where did you learn to put links in your signature/posts and upload avatars?

3. When you say that you "hate theory," do you mean that you think it's bad all the way around, or that you don't like being put upon to learn it?

For instance, would you find it easy or complicated to understand if I said something like...

All SJ's use Si (Introverted Sensing) as their primary or auxiliary function:

ISFJ:

Si, Fe, Ti, Ne. (Notice that Si is primary, because it is listed first.)

ESFJ:

Fe, Si, Ne, Ti. (Notice that Si is auxiliary, because it is listed second.)

ISTJ:

Si, Te, Fi, Ne.

ESTJ:

Te, Si, Ne, Fi.

These four types are called SJ's, because their shared strong Si functions give them all the common desire to preserve familiar traditions, and typically an excellent memory and detail/precision in their work. However, their weaker Ne (notice it's always tertiary [listed third] or inferior [listed last]) makes it more difficult for them to cope with change, and can make them less aware of flaws in the the ways of doing things that they've grown accustomed to.

How difficult was that to follow? Just testing.

 

[miss fortune]

1. Do you like to read? Sometimes- I like to read either the news or something funny- I have trouble reading novels because they're so LONG and my attention wanders

2. Where did you learn to put links in your signature/posts and upload avatars? I know people who can barely bring up a browser window on their own... Trial and error

3. When you say that you "hate theory," do you mean that you think it's bad all the way around, or that you don't like being put upon to learn it? I'm personally rather confused by theory theoretical discussions somewhat incomprehensible to me because they aren't real in the concrete sense of the word real

I understood the diagram part of the explanation much better than the reading part, but there are other reasons for that

You're just happy to have an ESTP to investigate!

 

[quietgirl]

I've concluded from reading through all of the SP threads that you guys don't seem to be big fans of ESTPs and tend to associate a lot of bad traits with them. Why?

I realize that my recent type change has left me seriously outnumbered on this site and I'd like to know why you guys hate ESTPs more than any type except for probably ESTJs! Please- why am I considered the epitome of all that's wrong with SPs? I'd love to know, so criticize away- you can't hurt my feelings!

Aww, my mom is an ESTP. As much as she drives me up a wall occasionally, she's an amazing person & I feel inspired by her on a fairly regular basis.

I'm guessing it's the ESTP moving quickly from one moment to the next that makes them the "epitome of what's wrong with SP's". Also, this is a forum dominated by introverts & extraverted intuitives. You're someone that not many of us understand well, I'm guessing.

With that being said, here are some reasons that you should be proud of your type!

-ESTPs are extremely intelligent. The Se tends to give off the spacy vibe, but believe me - my mother uses Ti very well. She is super intelligent with people - it really is amazing to watch the Se & Ti work as a team. While she doesn't have the super abstract bent that I have, I can discuss lots of things with her and get an intelligent conversation out of it. Also, she is an amazing Scrabble player and does very well with lots of word games & puzzles.

-ESTPs GET STUFF DONE. I've never seen anything like it - my mother can accomplish more in one hour than most people do in a week. She doesn't stop... constantly going from one thing to the next thing to the next thing... She is quite possibly the best person to have around when moving, haha. Whenever I'd move to a new apartment in college, I was moved in and out to lunch w/ the family by noon - mainly because my mother just got it done! She is also fairly tactile - if I need furniture put together or something fixed around the house, my mother can do it & do it quickly.

-ESTPs are fun! My mother would make everything a game - cleaning, homework, etc. She was also so strongly impulsive that we'd go on random road trips on weekends, just for the fun of it. I remember going through a tough time during my freshman year of college - 5 hours away from home. She actually up & drove in the wee hours of the morning to surprise me in the morning with breakfast & took me to a place about an hour away from campus because she thought it'd be fun & cheer me up (and it did!).

-There is a kind side to the ESTP. They have a tertiary Fe, so they can't be all evil. I'm kidding. But I will say that my mother is the type to drop EVERYTHING and take care of those closest to her. She was very self sacrificing for us kids and continues to be - if she only has a dollar, she'll give us two. The way it differs from my Fe (auxillary) is that my mother seems to have less control over it - she will overextend herself moreso than I do.

 

[Xander]

ESTPs are frickin awful, the worst type ever. Half way through thinking about something in their right hand they notice out of the corner of their eye that their left hand has something shiny in it. Now they don't have a right hand, arm or body. All that exists is the shiny.

ESTP - Smeagol.

ESTPs are the best type because no matter how shit life is turning out you can show them a shiny and everything is shiny. Even you are shiny because you showed them the shiny thing which is like sooo shiny and cool and have you noticed how butterflies can't fly backward? Oh and my letter was late.

Let me put it like this, after having tried and tried to get Arilee (must remember she's not posting as Lori on this board) to do something a certain way so that it meshes with what I'm doing later (no this isn't me being dictatorial and no I'm not going to illustrate further), she'll nod and say all the right words and then do something different. It's odd but no matter what the reasoning always begins with "well I was doing that and I thought..."

"New shiny is shinyer than old shiny. New shiny is shiny"

Oh and a small hint to ESTPs, If you're doin something and you're wondering why a logical NT like person isn't coming up and pitching in it's because you've blocked them from doing so...probably. If there's no structure to work then people cannot help, only stand by and watch. Structure is necessary for teamwork, not singular concrete instances in a quagmire of variables and total chaos!!