[SP] SP's and Walls of Texts

[cascadeco]

Well here is an overly long explanation that I'm pretty sure you did not want

Yes it is behaviourism, or rather unintentional behaviourism. There isn't any sort of meta analysis in socionics.... it's kind of like how ants will instinctively react to the nest when a threat is detected. Without going into terribly much detail, and keeping it simple socionics is based on abductive reasoning, which is inductively applied.

Abductive reasoning* is probable cause equals probable effect, for example: You have your back to a game of pool. You glance around to see the white ball in motion, then turn back. Abductively you can reason where the ball originated and its terminus, but because you didn't observe either its a matter of probability. Inductive is applying a general consensus from a small sample. I know three blonde haired brown eyed people, they all own red painted houses, therefore all blonde haired brown eyed people own red houses.

Essentially socionics reasoning is: I saw this behaviour it fits what I expect this function to look like therefore this is what said function is in reality. I have seen this in my small collective of this type therefore all types share this characteristic.**

It's something incredibly archaic to western sensibilities, and comes with it's share of unique issues. For example no differentiation between normal and abnormal behaviour; which is particularly dangerous in this model, given that socionics will always look for the strongest example of type. In other words behaviour the furtherest from the average, have you thought at some point that if they toned down the descriptions it would be more palatable? It's why I've never met someone with Bipolar, Histrionic Disorder, PTSD who didn't think they were beta. A delta who didn't suffer from an anxiety disorder or HSP, or some sort of pyschosexual issue. An alpha who wasn't on the autism spectrum, or manic/chronic depression. And I suspect that a lot of gammas suffered from abusive childhoods.


*All logic is subject to a frame of reference (Wishes, wants, culture, mental health, perception.), it's it greatest weakness. Abductive is worst for this simply because both the cause and effect are subject to it. Socionics is very much rapped up in the wants and needs of its authors and experts.

**It's the opposite to MBTI which is deduction derived from statistics.

Also this is a thread on MBTI SPs so most of the last two page is off topic, and in a boring rehashed a trillion time way.

No, your long explanation is great, it makes sense given all of the descriptions I've read;possibly also why when I look at the quadrants I can't make sense of any of them. Also, it's interesting how hyper-detailed they get in behavioral descriptions/expectations for a given type. I've never been able to type myself in that system, but like I said earlier, like any of the systems out there, it's going to fit some people well.( because as you say, it's in fact using some actual people/types to create the theory -- just then assuming everyone else will fall into the same descriptions.

Edit: Back on topic: demonstrating this SP can read wall of texts

 

[Kheledon]

I don't think intelligence types is going to play much of a role towards personality types, but nevertheless this is what I got:

I use this test to see how well people know themselves (but I never tell them my particular purpose for the test so as not to bias their responses). You appear to know yourself very well (high intrapersonal score), so it's unlikely that you have mis-typed yourself. I am more open to the possibility of mis-typing from people with low intrapersonal scores, as they tend not to know themselves as well.

In socionics I am simply far too blunt, far too direct, far too driving and ignoring of certain social niceties that I simply can not be EIE despite sharing some connection with it. It does make for an interesting interplay as I am clearly ENFJ in MBTI terms, but I've long been known to have a very oddly contradictory nature that works fluidly. That, and many people who know me will say "you're lawful neutral, but you do have one hell of a chaotic streak at times", and it's very true.

Per the thread itself, as I am an SP in socionics, I do tend to write walls of text. However, I make a point to make them easy to follow walls of text.

To be honest, that sounds like an EIE to me. EIE is noted for its ability to hold two, contradictory thoughts in its mind (at the same time) without experiencing discomfort or any cognitive dissonance (as other Sociotypes would and do).

Often wavering and hesitant, which makes it difficult for him to make important decisions. However, once the decision has been made, he will not hesitate any longer and will not look back. Internally, EIE is very contradictory. He is attuned to inconsistencies between what people say and what they do, conflicts and hypocrisy. Often has an interest in topics related to destiny, fate, and other mysterious phenomena. Over time, his worldviews may change to something diametrically opposite of what he has previously conceived.

Socionics - the16types.info - ENFj The Mentor profile by Gulenko

And this:

This is the most varied and contradictory of all the types, both internally and externally.

Socionics - the16types.info - Socionics Type Subtype Descriptions by V. Meged, A. Ovcharov, and V. Gulenko

As I mentioned above, EIE is known to have the unique ability to hold two, contradictory thoughts in its head without experiencing the discomfort or cognitive dissonance that would (and does) affect other Sociotypes (I searched for the exact quote but couldn't find it). For example, in my world, humans are both wonderful, amazing, and the most important concerns of my life while, at the same time, humans are evil, destructive, and a bane to the planet and the universe as a whole. Both are true (to me). Your being described as "lawful neutral" with "one hell of a chaotic streak" may be a reflection of this unique EIE capacity (or so it seems to me). You might want to take another look at the EIE. A M/B ENFJ converts, quite precisely, into an EIE (ENFj) in Socionics. It's interesting that you feel the EIE descriptions are generally off-base for you.

Thanks for the response.